The only thing that comes to mind with the mid mounted scope is that it seems like Cooper wanted all the benefits of a modern red dot and magnifier combo but the technology wasn't there at the time. It would be interesting to see Ian and Karl talk over the concept of a modern scout rifle over on inrange, Maybe not as a project like the WWSD but just a discussion about which base gun and modifications/accessories they would add to make something that checks all the boxes and improves on the original concept.

When I moved to Svalbard in 2011 I needed to buy a gun. Primarily for polar bear protection, secondary as a hunting rifle. I hadn't done any hunting prior to moving to Svalbard, although I did have the required license. However, I do have a military background, having served with the UN forces in Southern Lebanon in the early '90s. So I have plenty of experience with having to carry a gun around with me everywhere I go. Which is pretty much a requirement on Svalbard, too, if you want to venture outside the settlements. So, my prioritized list of requirements looked something like this: - Reliability. Unlike most other non-conflict places on earth, your life may actually depend on your gun in the Arctic. So build quality and reliability under adverse field conditions is the absolute #1 priority. - Low weight and short length for ease of carry. I knew I would have to carry this rifle around a lot. And carrying a short, light rifle is obviously better than carrying a long and heavy one. We did get to borrow an old Mauser when we first arrived, and I very quickly became aware that something in that weight and size range was definitely not on my shortlist. - Ability to reach out to at least 200 meters. Now, you may only shoot a polar bear in self defence, and the idea of engaging one at 200 meters does not seem like a self defence scenario. But I lived there with my family, and although we would always tell the kids to stay close to use when outside the settlement - well, kids are kids and people are people, and they tend to forget and stray away from the group. So I realized I needed a rifle that could reliably engage a polar bear at some range. - Agile enough for snap shots at short range. When moving in hilly terrain such as moraines, a bear may appear at a very short distance. - Must also be useful as a hunting rifle. To me, the Steyr Scout ended up being the perfect Svalbard rifle, and I frankly believe my needs and usage were pretty close to the colonel's original intentions. - The scout scope allows quick shots at close range and with good peripheral vision, while at the same time being precise enough for seal hunting. When hunting seal, you must shoot it in the head at ranges of approx 200 meters and kill it instantly, or it will slip down its breathing hole and disappear below the ice. I have also consistently shot geese at 200 meters+ in low light conditions at about the same ranges, which is not a problem as long as you don't use expanding ammo. I did consider an Aimpoint scope, but lithium batteries do not perform well at very low temperatures and if your battery is flat they're pretty useless, so it did not meet the dependency criteria. - Although modern optics are very reliable, stuff happens. I could envision any number of scenarios where my optics could have broken or become useless, such as slipping on a steep mountainside, snowmobile crash etc. I often traveled alone, and unlike a hunting scenario where you can just pack up and call it a day, I would still have to rely on my rifle for protection until I could make my way back to a settlement or be rescued. I mounted the scope with quick release rings, and appreciated the fact that I could just have ditched the scope and relied on the backup sights in such a situation. - The bipod - it's what allowed me to headshot those seals while retaining a nimble, easy to carry rifle. Bonus for the facts that it is lighter than an add-on bipod and the stock remains sleek, so nothing to that can snag when pulling the rifle out of a scabbard. Also, while add-on bipods are arguably better, more stable and have more functionality, the built in bipod is there when you need it. And what you have with you is infinitely more useful than the stuff you left at home. The one thing that annoys me most about the bipod is that, when you use it on snow, the snow tends to jam into the small nooks and crannies at the ends of the feet and that has to be cleaned out before you can lock the bipod into the stock again. However, that is probably not a great issue for most users of this rifle. - The mag detent that allows you to feed ammo from the top. It can be useful in a scenario where a bear is approaching from a distance. Using the detent will allow you to load individual rounds for warning shots and still have the entire mag capacity in reserve in case the bear decides to attack. - The additional mag in the stock. It's just a very clever concept for carrying extra ammo.

Most excellent video as always Ian, thanks kindly for putting so much thought into it. As a semi-old guy, I read Col. Cooper's writings since the early '70's and am quite familiar with the Scout Rifle concept. In practice, the greatest deficiency of a scope mounted that far forward is when the sun is behind the shooter. Sort of like when one is trying to take a photo with one's phone and the sun is over our shoulder - we really can't see what we're taking the photo of. The closest I came to building my own was a much modified Marlin 336 with a Leupold 2.5X scope mounted in the usual rear position. Because that scope has an extremely generous and forgiving eye box, it was about the fastest shooting rifle I or others who tried it had run - out to about 200 meters max. I am cognizant that a lever action and the .30-30 cartridge disqualify my build as a true Scout Rifle, nonetheless it suited my particular wants/needs for hiking and hunting in southern BC. Anyway sir, well done once again! Anymore these days I seemingly purchase less and less gun magazines and find more satisfaction in patreon support of keen young firearms enthusiasts such as yourself. Stay well sir.

I've read the book. A handy bolt rifle is an amazing, do most things decently, tool. That's why people can't leave the scout rifle concept alone. Optics have come a helluva long ways since Cooper's day. So, what I cannot understand is why almost nobody can wrap their brain around the idea of building a handy bolt rifle with updated modern concepts. For instance a 16-18" barreled 6.5cm/308 with say a 1-6, 1-8, or 1-10 scope on it. Lucky Gunner did a great series on practical rifles. That is the only time I've heard someone say it like it is: " The scout rifle concept is great, so throw out the parts that don't make modern sense, and drive on." I don't understand why that's so difficult.

*Captain Barbosa voice* "The Code of Cooper is more like a set of guidelines than an actual Code, y'see..."

The best thing that came out of the scout style rifles is that most of them come with good iron sights. Like the Ruger gunsight and tikka artic.

I grew up wanting to have a "Scout Rifle". I ended up building an AR type rifle in .308 and putting a 16" barrel with a 1-8x Scope on it and using it as a "Scout rifle" or a General all purpose gun. Keep up the great videos sir.

Coming up from Headstamp Publishing, The Scout Rifle in Theory and Practice.

As I recall, from the gun rags of the day, we were supposed to make our own from the then cheap surplus Mausers. The use of stripper clips was retained and the only tool required was a hacksaw. The concept was more of what we consider today as a Guide Gun.

What I found interesting is that despite being "banned" for scout rifle use the modern red dot low magnification scopes really meet the scout scope requirements. I really do like scout rifle setup but it really is an answer in search of a problem.

An early 'scout' rifle would be a Winchester 94 Trapper, a brush gun. .30-30, iron sights, forward mounted scope, light and handy. Forward mounted scope mainly due to the action.

Me, being the owner (for 20+ years) of the Steyr Scout in .308 am seeing a big plus in the low carry weight and reliabilty. The forward mounted scope gives advantage mainly for close by targets. Easy to shoot fast with both eyes open, as not to lose sight on the surroundings. My main use is in the African bush. Not for hunting animals....

It's refreshing to see someone who isn't afraid of being accused of slaughtering the sacred cow that is Colonel Jeff Cooper.

I've got two quite different comments, really, which I shall put up together: I corresponded with Jeff Cooper for many years and he had lots of pet ideas and was quite willing to consider the pet ideas of others. One of his pet ideas was crocodile farming in Arizona. The Scout Rifle has fewer obvious problems than that. There was a trend, once, in the UK, to have a reasonably powerful air-rifle with a forward-mounted long eye relief scope. Being a person who hunted rats with the help of a self-taught tabby gun-cat, I needed my peripheral vision to keep track of where the cat was in relation to whatever rodent she had flushed out of cover. So a "Scout Air-rifle" met my needs. I sometimes used a 9mm rimfire shotgun instead, depending on the circumstances and how close I was to other people's property. Rats move extremely quickly and high-magnification optics aren't all that useful, especially when one's cat is mixing it with half a dozen hostiles at once and in need of covering fire. I never used anything louder than a 9mm rimfire because Twinkle's primary sensor was her hearing. I wonder if some kind of non-magnifying optic, expressly designed for the job, would be appropriate for a Scout rifle in Africa. The most dangerous African animals are pretty big, but very stealthy and they are herd animals: magnification will not help you see them (all) in the sort of places where they are usually encountered. Having both eyes open, just might. Most cartridges simply will not drop them at the sort of range where high magnification would serve a purpose.

I think this is a very mature, reasonable, and measured critique and review. I appreciate that you analyze who this book is for and can recommend it for that purpose while being critical without being rude or personal in ways that I find lots of criticisms can accidentally end up being. Thanks for still being comfortable being critical (and in a respectful manner).

I've thought that is was pretty telling that when the Canadian Rangers, arguably the military force that would've presumably benefitted the most from a "scout rifle" as their guns have to fulfill both military and personal hunting roles, kept using Lee-Enfields for decades and replaced them only very recently with essentially just a really nice hunting rifle (Tikka T3/Colt C19) when they weren't able to get any more Lee-Enfield parts. If a scout rifle doesn't fit their needs, of all people, then I think it's kinda pointless.

The Scout Rifle always seemed like it was 'a thing' not because it had the intrinsic merit to survive on it's own as 'a thing,' but because in spite of that, many people tried their hardest to make it a thing.

Cooper was ahead of his time...until the 1980s. I don't say that with any animosity toward the Colonel. Reading his books and articles was formative in my thinking about guns, but as time has worn on I see how some of his concepts are better left as representative of how his experiences shaped what he thought rather than be taken at face value as timeless and unchangeable.

I was able to get a scratch-built AR in 6.5 Grendel to make weight using readily available COTS parts and a a red-dot with flip-to-side magnifier. The gnashing of teeth by the scout-rifle-purist can still be heard today. “6.5G isn’t available in Africa!” “You can’t reload with stripper clips!” “6.5G can’t take a Wildebeest!” Such an absurd cult. Nice, handy rifle though.

"But what is it FOR?" "To sell, of course."

I canceled my magazine subscription back in the day when I realized, based on reading Cooper's column, that he wasn't so much interested in informing me as he was in convincing me how smart he was. Let's just say I evaluated him as a sheepherder, and I wasn't then and still am not a sheep.

I feel like the idea needs to be updated, treat the optic as primary and irons as secondary, barrel mounted U notch sights would allow a rear mounted scope. Also a double stack magazine like from an m14 would be better so you could load it from the top or put a fresh magazine in. Maybe a What Would Cooper Do 2020? WWCD2020? 😂

"If the Scout Rifle is considered a cult, this book would be its Nicene Creed, not its Ninety-Five Theses." Perfection.

This is why I LOVE this channel and have massive respect for you sir. you are never afraid of questioning ideas or concepts like the scout rifle or others. Thank you for your MASSIVE contribution to the firearms community.

I legitimately thought a scout rifle was a light, handy rifle, that was suited to being carried around and shot only in emergency; what I mean is, is an army type scout.

I had the Savage Scout; a fine rifle, and now have a Swedish Mauser with a forward red dot, that makes weight, even with a scope instead of the dot, and has a blind magazine, and also now have a Martini rim fire converted to 357 Maximum with a forward Leupold scope to aid loading. I am a hunter, and see Cooper's scout as an arm for the man exploring disputed territory, and in need of taking game to feed himself and in all likely hood indigenous forces. You Ian are one of the few men who are a thoughtful enough man at arms to examine Jeff's idea critically. I am glad you did so. That said, I like shooting a forward scope, I have given up magnification across the board. I have found anything over 6X to be a detriment to my style in the field. Stripper clips remain a lot lighter alternative to a man carrying his kit for an extended period, so magazines are not the be all of the scout's style. I do not think a detachable mag rifle will ever make weight. I think too little thought is given to the idea of what a Scout's mission, meaning the man, might be and his reasons - multiple as they would tend to be, for being armed. Burnham's biography is a great read for anyone wanting to understand Scouting.

"Has to be capable of taking a moose." What about a cougar? You know, 43, 5'6, about 140lbs...

As an engineer, gun owner, and reserve officer, I admire very much this gentleman. I grew up looking for this sort of knowledge in public or university libraries. Now we have it here, in our homes, every week. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with so many viewers all over our beautiful planet.

I think it's one of those instances where the concept had a specific time and place, and they no longer exist, and thus the concept has been outdated. Especially when you factor in the development of firearms in the last 50 years, optics in particular.The whole concept only exists in a hunting scenario, where arbitrary rules and outdated concepts, limit the objectiveness of those who practice it.

I always thought a scout rifle with an ACOG or red dot/magnifier would be a better choice than the scope.

Great video, Ian! The suppressor point is excellent. As a European hunter myself that's what immediately came to my mind when you started talking about balance. I also find the integrated bipod on the Steyr Scout very interesting and it looks practically useful if it's sturdy.

Interesting video, I may check this book out. I just converted a Ak-47 into a scout type rifle. I mounted a long eye relief above the gas tube and the scope rings are high enough to still utilize the hard sights. It's cool to know there is a book on this.

If one is truly "scouting" and not just going on a safari with an entourage of helpers or fellow hunters, or in known areas, than the idea that they rifle might have to be used against human threats must be considered. In the United States, there really isn't any territory left that one might be "scouting" in. That's more of an early 1800s mountain man sort of thing here in the States. The fact remains, if you're looking for an all around "good enough" rifle that will do the job in the most various of situations, semi-auto is the way to go. You can get good enough accuracy for most game with semi-auto, and you can still fight with it. Weight is an issue if you're going to be humping it for long distances, and it's your primary means of defense on your own or with a very small group. Some sort of lightweight semi-auto .308 or 30-06 seems like the best bet to me. Not spectacular in any one particular field of shooting, but good enough for small game, big game, fast or slow moving animal threats big or small, and human threats. When you're one guy all alone or maybe with 1 or 2 buddies in the middle of unexplored nowhere with undetermined threats and the need to survive, giving up capacity and speed of followup shots by going with a bolt action just seems dumb to me. A lightweight, rugged, semi-auto in .308 with something like an ACOG would be my choice. Good enough to get food, good enough to give you a decent shot at taking down larger game, and good enough against human threats.

"The scout rifle: Designed in the 70's, by men in their 60's, using gear from the 50's, dreaming about hunting Nazi's in Africa in the 40's. " One of my biggest criticisms of the scout rifle concept has always been that it's defenders never settle on what exactly the "scout" is. Is it a military scout, or a hunting guide? The rifle doesn't make sense for either of them. If you want a lightweight, handy hunting rifle, you don't need all the scout nonsense (Backup irons/clip fed/etc). If you want a military/combat rifle, hunting big game just isn't the issue. The envelope where the scout rifle is the right answer is so small as to be meaningless. And even then, if you really wanted both today, I would be hard pressed to find any scenario where an lightweight AR-10 isn't a better choice. For most people, today, the ideals of the scout rifle are far better captured in the WWSD concept.

I once mounted an Aimpoint T1 out as close to the muzzle as I could get it on an FN SCAR. It was AWESOME as far as pointing. I had heard that one could skeet shoot with scout rifles -- and the setup I mentioned very definitely produced the feeling it would be possible. Kinda hard to fully appreciate without actually having one in your hands, but it just felt SO good. I eventually stopped using it, however, for the same reason I'm not a big fan of red dots on pistols -- it was all too easy to "lose" the red dot, and find yourself spending seconds tilting the rifle in all ways to try to regain it, lol. If I could get around that problem I would LOVE to shoot a rifle with a red dot out near the muzzle!

Every time I hear the term ‘Scout rifle’ and see some fairly cool looking gun like the Steyr I always think to myself, “dang that looks cool”, with my next immediate thought being, “wow this far forward scope is really not easy or convenient to use”.

Crazy coincidence, I watched your Steyr Scout Rifle video yesterday and you come out with this video today :)

Hi Ian. Was wondering if you have ever published an inventory of your library. Id definitely like more book reviews, but a forgotten weapons reading list would be fun.

This deep dive is superb. Your approach is nuanced. If I could grade this as an essay, I'd say just publish it.

Neat video and it's nice to hear a review from someone, like Ian, who likes the Scout Rifle. (And lets face it, the Steyr Scout Rifle is a light weight, handy and accurate rifle: what's not too like?) But unlike some reviewers he is not a "true believer" so he can appreciate the limits of Cooper's concept.

I'm old enough to remember when Col. Cooper was writing about these, and I thought for a long time about them as well. Cooper sold out when he endorsed the Steyr rifle and I never considered it to be a "real" Scout based on the stated specs required to be one. Steyr paid Jeff Cooper for the privilege of using his name in their ads. This wasn't the only time Col. Cooper did this. He railed against "Crunchentickers" in favor of the 1911 as the ideal fighting pistol. Yet when it came time for him to get a good 10mm built, he endorsed the Bren Ten. A "Crunchenticker". Why? He didn't know it would ultimately fail. A real "Scout" rifle was not only supposed to be a hunting rifle. It was to be actually used by Scouts, operating behind enemy lines. Time and technology has rendered many of Col. Cooper's ideas obsolete. Cooper himself apparently didn't believe in them enough to stay true to his own writing on the subject. I sold my custom Scout 20 years ago and never looked back. I don't miss it.

Ian, Coopers interest in African hunting came pretty late in his life, long after Cooper made developed the concept. As to weight, the reason for bolt-actioned rifles vs semi-autos was primarily due to weight. Cooper several times wished he could find a lever actioned rifle that took what he called an acceptable cartridge. He was fan of the Savage lever action. The Scout rifle was not initially designed with Africa in mind. Many of the rifles Cooper used in his initial design were military carbines, mountain troops magazine, etc. Later advocates of Cooper's ideas concentrate on hunting, where the Scout Rifle was designed to be an 'all-around' rifle. Remember you're examining a book written about Coopers concept and not from Coopers writings. It's kinda like looking at Stoners designs 50 years later and looking his concepts based upon the modern interpretations. Look at your WWSD series and expositions about the return to Stoner's initial ideas. BTW, I had purchased an old Remington 660 back in the 1970s which was one of the initial candidates of his conversions. So I had a pseudo-Scout Rifle, but I sold the rifle in the early 80s. But then again I'm not running around in the wilds of Arizona (as Cooper did for quite a while) or Canada either.

Funny thing here: There's really nothing new or innovative about the "scout rifle." Dad's, and Grandad's, and Great Grandad's Marlin .30-30 with a 3-9 power scope is just a half step away from the "scout rifle." You can easily carry it for days because it's light (~7.5 lb) and compact and balances well, it's legal everywhere (except maybe Canada), has a cartridge that will stop anything you encounter in the deer woods back east, and can be loaded/unloaded without knocking the scope. If you have that 3-9x mounted on tall rings, you can even use the iron sights for snap shots. 6+1 in the tube magazine is nothing to scoff at either. The specific rifle and caliber get a touch heavier out west, but it's still an 8 lb combination and will still knock down anything you might reasonably encounter (including moose).

It would be interesting to test the idea of a "scout rifle" with an dot sight with BUIS. If I was putting together my idea of a "practical" bolt action it would be light, short, chambered in something like 5.56mm, 5.45mm, 6.5mm Grendel, 6.8mm SPC or 7.62x39mm, maybe even 9x39mm (if ammo was easier to get) fitted with a 1-6xIR LPVO. But then that is just my opinion.

I always thought Cooper's "scout rifle" was for a very niche application that was niche in its own time and which time has left behind, a rifle carried by a man doing a deep recon on foot in hostile territory who might have to take a shot of opportunity, perhaps two, a man who might be carrying no more than 10 or 15 rounds of ammunition because that's not his purpose. Basically, something that doesn't seem to happen any more. I thought of it as a rifle carried a lot and shot little. And that its design reflected the limitations of the technology available at the time. I thought it might be useful as a concept for say a rancher or someone like that who might want a rifle handy, though in that niche anything might work. I don't see why any modern user would want the platform except for the same reason you buy a 1911 or a single action revolver, you just want to experience the old school.

I think it would be interesting for you to interview the author and start a discussion on not only his book, but the evolution of the “scout rifle” concept.

when you were balancing it, was the backup magazine in the stock empty or full? it changes the balance. I've always felt that the scout rifle concept was dated to when it was originated and didn't compensate for advanced in engineering and manufacturing subsequent to that. your comment on 1980s scopes is spot on... many $250 scopes these days have better quality optics and are more durable than 'expensive' optics in the 1980s. it also completely ignored the existence of magnifying (or non-magnifying) red dots.

I’m assuming Jeff Cooper’s willingness to say that the Steyr rifle is THE scout rifle is due to a possible financial interest. I could be completely wrong though

I always figured the ideal setup for a scout rifle would be a modern adjustable scope and an offset red dot sight for snap shooting and peripheral vision

Would this be an appropriate item for InRange to examine several rifles that fit the overall definition of 'scout rifle' while flexing scope location, iron sights and caliber. Oddly to be honest the first thing that popped into my head was a "project lightning' style shoot out.

I remember reading Col. Coopers column in Guns & Ammo back in the day and my impression was that he viewed most of the criteria as ideals to strive for not minimums which had to be met - so it wasn't "a scout rifle must weigh less than X", rather it was "a scout rifle must be light, ideally weighing less than X". Thus why the numbers changed and why he approved of the Steyr Scout despite it not meeting all the criteria. My impression of the core requirements was: 1. Manual bolt action repeater. 2. Long eye relief scope. 3. Readily available cartridge appropriate for hunting non-dangerous big game. The end goal was a rifle appropriate for either: big game hunting pretty much anywhere in the world, or military/self-defence use. Cooper's biases can be seen here. He prioritized big game hunting over small game hunting, despite the latter being more useful in a survival situation. He felt every soldier should be a marksman and thus strongly preferred what we would call a DMR today over anything capable of replacing an SMG.

Col. Cooper had a vision for his scout rifle and that's OK, but this concept was done long before in the Remington Model-8 in .35 Remington. It gave the shooter 5 fast semi-auto shots (being a long recoil system) with fast stripper clip top loading. It's 200 grain Nickle jacketed bullet at 2000+ fps would easily blow a hole through 5/16 steel at 100 yards like a hot knife. It was an intermediate round capable of taking any game without beating up the shooter with the proper recoil pad. I have seen a Model-8 with the barrel jackets rear sight removed and a short rail silver solder to it with an Eo-Tech red-dot reflex sight mounted in it's place. This while still keeping the Lyman #6 folding peep on the receiver tang as a back-up. The beauty of this gun is it is both light, handy and can be taken down to half it length without tools.

Iconoclast! Outstanding and fair analysis. LtCol Cooper contributed greatly to the firearms field, but by the time of his scout rifle advocacy was stretching to maintain his relevancy.

Had a feeling the WWSD would make an appearance!

The Jeff Cooper 'scout rifle' is one man's opinion of what is right. What is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. My 'handy' rifle is a Springfield M1A Scout in 7.62 NATO, with iron sights and a forward mounted trijicon sight. Fed by 20 round magazines... That might not be right for Jeff Cooper or you, but it's right for Me. That's what makes a rifle great, is the perfect match with it's operator. Good Video! Take Care and be safe, John

Hey Ian. I always love your videos and your input as a very knowledgeable firearms expert. This is the first time I've ever doubted your input... Not that I think what you said was wrong but more so not definitive in regards to the possible effectiveness of a scout format. Now I'm not a expert nor will I ever claim to be one but I have done my own testing with the scout platform in a more controlled experiment by using the same rifle(Ruger Gunsite Scout .308) with a forward scope and the traditional. My range had targets set 2 at 50yrds 3 at 100yrds and 1 at 150yrd in different locations (left to right). I timed myself with the rifle 6 times each with the different optic option and found the average time was nearly -3(-2.72) seconds over the traditional optic using my scout optic. Not a dramatic difference but definitely a improvement in those conditions. Im my opinion this was due to the perfect niche I had set that would accommodate the scout. Not that I wanted to fluff and show the scout is superior but to try and see if Cooper's vision for a all around rifle had any support over the traditional setup. Maybe with your Steyr you could try a similar test and see if your data is similar as mine. Thank you for your time, knowledge and labor you put into your videos as I greatly appreciate it.

I like the scout rifle concept. enough so that I built my own pseudo-scout from a bubba'd No4 Lee-Enfield. However, I do agree that it has been rendered obsolescent by the vastly improved quality and durability of modern optics, and the increased commonality of detachable magazines on bolt-action rifles. Add in the fact that modern semi-auto rifles are far more durable, reliable, and most importantly more accurate than they were in the 1960's - 1970's when Cooper developed the scout rifle, and it's really not an essential piece of equipment anymore. I'm not going to give up my scout, but I'm also not going to build or buy any more of them.

With regards to people not liking some of your views on this, anyone capable of objective critical thinkin……. oh wait.... this is youtube…. you got a bunker?

These are good insights, Ian. I've been saving to buy a Ruger Gunsite Scout, but now I'm thinking that may not be the best choice for my needs. I also find all of my best shooting is with irons, to the point I sold all my RDS sights. Irons are so underrated, I think because a lot of people don't know how to use them properly. Look at the most effective snipers of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, and nearly every one of them used iron sights. Sure, if you're competing an 1/16th of an inch can cause you to loose a match, then by all means, run optics, but for real world application, don't rule out a set of good irons!

Just one more very interesting and educational episode keep the great content coming Awesome work

The more I think about the scout rifle concept the more I think its one man's answer to the question "If you were to homestead another planet with today's tech which gun would you take."

Is it just me or has the scout scopes niche been filled by the red dot and holosights.

My 8mm VZ24 is set up with a scout scope. Works great for me and I got my first deer with it! I chose the setup to keep the clip feed and not chop up or drill the rifle for optics.

Wow thanks! I was just thinking about the scout rifle concept. Really good timing! Thank youuuuuuuuuuu

I got really sold on the scout rifle concept when I was a kid and bought the 18" stainless ruger gsr and put the burris 2-7x long eye relief scope. Love the rifle, but a modern lpvo like a 1-8x is a much more practical fit.

Coming from someone who used to use aperture sights exclusively: I see the scout scope as an improvement over aperture sights. FOV obstruction is about the same, but there’s the added benefit of some magnification and better viewing in lower light situations.

I am a shooter that has no idea what constitutes the "best" rifle. With out defining criteria, what does one want or need in a rifle for what purpose? I like the concept of a "scout rifle" for heavy cover hunting here in Maine on medium game. The scout rifle does not lend itself, in my opinion, to long range precision shooting, or heavy caliber shooting. As to the book, that is one opinions as documented, and should be taken as such.

The issue that many people take with the Scout concept is that it’s not necessarily perfect for everything. Yes, plenty of things could be done to make it a better hunting rifle, plenty of things can be done to make it a better target rifle, and plenty of things could be done to make it a better combat rifle. Modern technology has changed the game as far as Cooper’s original specs go, but the core concept is a light, handy rifle that you can use with reasonable effectiveness for any task you can reasonably expect to face. And that concept I think has quite a lot of merit. A light AR10 with a quality LPVO I think would make an excellent scout rifle. Cooper didn’t use a semi auto because the ones available in a sufficient caliber at the time were too heavy. Ian touched on the scope, but the main thing was that variable power optics at the time Cooper was developing the concept were too fragile. Both of those problems have since been solved. I’m a huge scout rifle fan and have one that is ALMOST to Cooper’s spec, but personally I believe that Jeff Cooper would have jumped at the chance to use what is available to us today as long as it was proven to be durable and reliable.

Never cared for the scout idea. But I have broken and seen broken many modern scope on horseback and in jeeps. I always like and recommend bu iron sights.

I think, so far, the only person of any prominence to actively rethink the subject is Chris Baker at Lucky Gunner, and I think his thoughts mirror yours in a lot of ways. Y'all should chat

I think we are better off viewing Cooper's parameters as guidelines or suggestions rather than hard rules. The Scout Rifle is a concept, an idea, and it is based in practical utility, which changes by individual use. Being able to modify the rifle to get the most utility out of it demands we be able to compromise on the parameters, but if we retain the basic idea of a light, handy rifle that is easy to carry and shoot, and capable of taking most game in the circumstances we take game, then we have conceptually adhered to the Scout Rifle. I find that for my use, a 16 inch barreled AR-10 with an LPVO is pretty much ideal. It is nearly two pounds heavier than Cooper allotted for the rifle, but it is well balanced and carries well enough slung to my chest that I don't really mind the additional weight. It is, in fact, about the same length and weight as my issued M16A4, but obviously with the capabilities of the .308 cartridge. In some areas, a lever action .30-30 might be more practical, being lighter and handier than even Cooper's vision, and consideration of 300+ yards being impractical in many areas. Adapt the concept to your needs and appreciate Cooper's pragmatic approach and indispensable wit and wisdom by getting out in the field and using the thing to develop a skill set rather than nitpicking about minute details that even he showed a willingness to compromise on.

To the best of my knowledge, Cooper began writing about the rifle and concept about in 1965(?). That’s at least 55 years ago. There are photos of Winchester 94’s with forward mounted intermediate eye relief Leupold scopes in about 1964(?) also. Cooper did endorse the Winchester in this configuration. I found your posting very informative and entertaining. Thanks.

2 things that I'd like to make mention of. The first is the top loading. You make the point that the magazine is detachable, so that a moot issue, but i believe the thing Mr Cooper was talking about was being able to single load cartridges, keeping the magazine supply in reserve for emergencies, hence the magazine cut off stipulation. The 2nd is about the AR10. The idea behind the scout rifle is a rifle that can be kept with you, and beyond Africas regulations, you also have to consider the states of our union. A rifle that can travel with me is limited if its illegal in states i need to pass through (even with FOPA your still looking at possible jail time, because if the cop arrests you on friday, you dont see a judge till monday). Regardless of anyones views on the legitimacy of those laws, it is reality, and a scout rifle is a rifle you should be able to have with you, wherever you roam, thus i can see why the AR10 would be discounted by the author. Other than that, i agree with you. Adhering to one mans idea of a rifle is silly, and you should have what works best for you.

So basically, "The One rifle" could be a WWSD AR10 with something like a 1-6x optic.

A great, honest book review, thank you. I would love to see more.

Fantastic talk, glad to hear all this.

I've always loved that gun. Would be perfect for taking out on your horse to do some trail riding and camping with. I would get one in a second if I lived in the States. Cheers for the upload.

"and thus gun jesus himself hath declared yond the scout rifleth is a religious notion" - F W 9:11

Another excellent review, many thanks Ian. Your thoughtful insights show both your intelligence and experience. So much more than just reviews that satisfy themselves with either listing facts or shouting opinions.

Thanks for all your hard work Ian!!

It sounds like the scope concept would have essentially evolved into the red dot sight.

Ah yes Jeff Cooper, arguing for return of the last last century warfare. I seem to remember discussions of marching columns of soldiers flanked by scouts on foot etc etc. These days a mildly longer scout might make modern sense as the dedicated marksman's rifle. Still that Steyr is a fine rifle in any event :-)

I didn't expect the AR-10 to come up, but as you were going over the requirements my first thought was an AR-10, or AR-15 in a big bore chambering, and my assumption was that it would be ignored for not being a 'traditional' hunting/sporting rifle.

Excellent presentation thank you for your time posting this information.

A forward mounted optic, does not a scout rifle make. But honestly the manifestation of the concept is from a time of limited technology. Modern optics are far superior than those of the Col's day. In fact I believe a WWSD carbine in 300blk or 6.5 Grendel would be every bit the scout that the styer or ruger gsr are.

Maybe you and Karl could take a few rifles, some with a scout style set up, and some with a traditional set up and pit them against each other. Would be highly interesting to see what kind of results you would get.

This review was exactly what I needed. I’ve entertained the idea of a “scout” set up forever but never saw enough gains potential to spend my own money without handling one in person. My setup for hunting the Appalachian and Catskill mountains in the thick northeast, and it’s always been a carbine length lever action or short action bolt gun. With a fixed 4x or 2-7x32 as close to bore height as I can get. I had one 7600 pump but never really used it. It somehow always just felt to big even with a 18” barrel. I never have really needed to search for game in the scope even on moving game at any distance. Because I’ve spotted it, kept my eyes on it while raising the gun. The guns already instinctively pointed like a shot gun before I drop my eye to the scope. At 2 or 3 power I’ve shot deer 6 to 125 yards and have used more then 4x on deer or bear out to 200 yards. I’ve settled on light weight 7mm-08 with 18” barrel for my go to anything lower 48. 154 grain bullets traditional cup and core bullets have always been 1 shot kills most don’t get back up all have been less then 35 yard movement. I can snap shoot at 10 yards or easily stay in the 6 bull at the 300 yard range off my walking sticks by holding my cross hairs on the top edge. I probably carry it 15-25 miles and 8-12 days of hunting between shots. I was running low on ammo after the last few years. So last year I picked up a few boxes of super performance hornady 140 gr. I won’t use again because I shot a deer at 15 yards running out of a drive. The shot was down hill quartering away . The entrance was a little high. It took out a literal fist size hole from high rear rib cage entry on the to front armpit on the off side. Completely removed 2 vertebrae. Lost 2/3s of the meat in the front end because to being removed by the bullet, blood shot or full of bone fragments. The ammo is clearly intended for longer ranges. And I just don’t shoot more then 1 in 5 animals at more the 100 yards. With ammo that can preform that well. I just have to pick the right ammo for longer ranges. And the deer won’t care weather I’m 275 or 325 yards away. Or that my barrel is 18” instead of 24”.

for a modern scout rifle the springfield armoury waypoint sounds like a good place to look especially regarding weight savings. Accurate, in a capable calibre especially for longer range, light, definitely worth looking into

Can we get a comparison between scout rifles and regular hunting rifles with standard scopes? Could be a cool InRange video, testing the capabilities of both concepts.

My favorite scout rifle is the Hung Jury.

Upvoted for the M1 Carbine in the background.

Some of these lessons I kinda learned the hard way. Full disclosure, I don't consider myself to be a great hunter or rifle shot, but my experience has been, rather than being a "general purpose rifle", I'd consider a scout to actually be a pretty specialized rifle that prioritizes fast snap and follow up shots at shorter ranges.

It says a lot about the power of language, belief, and imagination. *Cooper:* "A Scout Rifle has X, Y, and Z and it is Good." *Believer:* "A Scout Rifle is Good!" [Steyr Scout Rifle is on the table] *Believer:* "This obviously does not have X, and thus not a Scout Rifle, and thus Not Good!" *Cooper:* [Counts money] "This is a Scout Rifle, and it is Good." *Believer:* "This is obviously a Scout Rifle and it is Good!" *Gun Jesus:* "This is a Steyr Scout Rifle, and it has a lot of nice features, but we need to see if it (and putting X, Y, and Z together) truly is Good, and if not, what could make it Better." *Believer:* "EGFUIEGFKASGFEGFKEJG!!!!!!!!!!!!! On The Internet!!!!!!" *Legislator:* "This can fire a military cartridge that is used in machine guns, and is therefore an Assault Weapon!"

“Europe, where suppressors are not as regulated” *heavily cries in Italian” (Here suppressors are totally illegal in any way, shape or form)

I have used scout scopes on my deer hunting rifles for about the last twenty years. One rifle is a winchester bolt action in 3006 and the other is an AR 15 type rifle in 7.62x39 . I hunt the heavily wooded northern lower peninsula of Michigan. I appreciate the ease of carrying a rifle with a forward mounted scope, but where the concept really shines is when shooting from a treestand. Targets often present themselves suddenly at close range and awkward angles. Often the rifle is fired from positions other than shouldered with a cheek weld as required by conventional scopes. I am able to make hits that would not be otherwise possible except with the exception of a red dot.

Fantastic review, it truly tells me that I actually want this book

I used to find Col Cooper's musings in Guns & Ammo interesting. He is still a giant in the firearms world. Not perfect, but which of us is?

Noice, never really thought Scout rifles were a serious thing

When I was a kind I saw what I thought was a mistake in Jeff Coopers column in G&A and I wrote him and he wrote me back. I was knocked over to say the least. I still have the letter and a Styer scout

Love this sort of video and discussion