Gordon Ingram's Westarm .308 Battle Rifle
Рет қаралды 330,999
3 жыл бұрын / forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/Fo...
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In the late 1970s and early 80s, Gordon Ingram came close to producing a military rifle in one of the most convoluted international arrangements I’ve yet heard of. Prototypes were made in Italy using British raw castings, to be tested in Somalia as part of a project to build a rifle factory there with Dominican Republic expertise from the San Cristobal armory. Somalia actually ordered a large quantity of rifles in 7.62x39mm, but Ingram prototyped the design in .223 and .308 as well.
Mechanically, the rifle was essentially a scaled-up M1 Carbine with a long stroke gas piston instead of a gas tappet. The production guns were select-fire, but the handful or prototypes brought into the US were semiautomatic only, to meet import requirements. In .308, the rifle used FAL magazines, while the .223 ones used AR magazines and the 7.62x39mm ones AK magazines.
Unfortunately for Ingram (but predictably), the project fell apart as the result of financial corruption among the many interested parties. The Somali government ended up payout out something like $5 million US and all they got for it were 10 unreliable prototype rifles.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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@Simplebutsandy 3 жыл бұрын
"Some place more stable, like Somalia" Well if you insist...
@jm9371 3 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY what I was about to type... lol.
@CrazyPalidin57 3 жыл бұрын
Somalia wasn't too bad until it fell into civil war. Kinda a result of the vacum of power left as European nations abandoned colonies post WW2 combined with the Soviets meddling with trying to spread communism into lesser developed nations.
@Psiberzerker 3 жыл бұрын
Nicaragua?
@Psiberzerker 3 жыл бұрын
@@CrazyPalidin57 And yeah, rather than saying "We fucked this up," let's point out how fucked up Somalia is. "Some place more stable, like America." If we're more stable, we wouldn't need so many guns.
@lairdcummings9092 3 жыл бұрын
@@Psiberzerker that's a gross misstatement. In America, we have those great numbers of guns as a cultural artifact, and the stability of the country allows us to indulge in our fetish *without* destabilizing the country.
@Alemikkola 3 жыл бұрын
"Defrauding the Somalian government is a capital offence in Somalia" Such nice words to hear from your business partner
@MegaRazorback 3 жыл бұрын
But it's totally fine if the Somalian government defrauds their own companies or outside business partners for some reason :/
@accountname9506 3 жыл бұрын
@@MegaRazorback i mean, it's not like theirs any somali government left.
@muffinxcancer 3 жыл бұрын
@@MegaRazorback it's not like they can be held accountable for their actions lol
@elenna_alexia 3 жыл бұрын
@@MegaRazorback I mean, that's governments for you.
@deniskozlowski9370 3 жыл бұрын
Stealing an order of French fries was probably a capital offense in Somalia.
@markserbu 3 жыл бұрын
"...if you're interested...". OF COURSE WE ARE! :-D
@jeffbruh3253 3 жыл бұрын
God bless you Mark, you’re an inspiration too all of us
@emavaz18 3 жыл бұрын
I'm interested in how interested you are, Mark Serbu. Any inspirations come into mind?
@aaronvaughn8586 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Mark I have noticed that you have a pretty substantial back order I was wondering if that was due to lack of skilled employees or factory size I was kind of wondering if you were planning on doing extension due to higher demand I would love to get my hands on a RN 50 or a Bfg 50A If I’m feeling and like I can make the larger expense
@aaronvaughn8586 3 жыл бұрын
Either way I love your videos
@EnterTheFenix 3 жыл бұрын
@@aaronvaughn8586 yep ask him a question on a youtube video on someone elses channel.. hes sure to see it.
@129aslamnurfikrir4 3 жыл бұрын
American design rifle made in Italy by Dominican Republic engineers for Somalia *Mr. Worldwide*
@topsecret1837 3 жыл бұрын
Using British castings and worked on at the San Cristobal Armory.
@fortnex9972 3 жыл бұрын
Globalization!!!!
@raultrashlord4404 3 жыл бұрын
dale
@onpsxmember 3 жыл бұрын
That's how production lines are set up often today. Have the idea of the product, let the machine build in Italy, do test runs there and adjust it there, pack it all together and ship it to eastern europe or asia where people who don't speak your language put it back together and if something is not in the manual, it can take weeks to keep going, test runs and adjusting again, production can start and it all runs on servers back in europe. All of it would work with just a bit more modern communication technology. It makes sense that Ingram thought someone tried to run away with money once again after the previous occasion.
@Dennis-vh8tz 3 жыл бұрын
And it was Lebanese investors who brought everyone together and provided initial funding.
@mattdirks7896 3 жыл бұрын
Its kind of a shame that this didn't work out. A semi-auto 308 that looked classy-ish and could be made fairly cheap would be pretty nice.
@BigBoiBleu 3 жыл бұрын
"The Dominican workers were racially tolerant enough to work with Somalian workers". About as nicely as you can put it.
@BigBoiBleu 3 жыл бұрын
@@Stardude78 well American parlance anyways. Growing up in Haiti and interacting with other Latin American people, nothing was "black and white". But yea, being a couple shades lighter apparently make you better in cultures like this. The success of this rifle was doomed a lot sooner than it reaching Somalia apparently.
@That_NJ_guy 3 жыл бұрын
As someone with family in Dominican Republic well I know they aren't so kind to Haitians so the statement from Ian comes out weird. Also as you mentioned some Dominicans probably the majority in cities are pretty dark so I always found to weird to judge a Haitian on their skin color. I mean personally I would like that the island just worked together to try to make more money and modernize but that seems hopeful.
@ulisesjorge 3 жыл бұрын
@@That_NJ_guy If we aren't so kind to Haitians, how come we host 751,000 of them? Yes, there are people who like to talk trash about Haitians but why is that the only thing you focus on? It is not the only part of the story and the fact that we no only host them in our country, welcome them into our places of work, schools (where by law they are the only foreigners that pay the same tuition rates as Dominicans) and our hospitals....why is that never part of the conversation? Only the negative. I think we should be working together, but have you look at the situation in Haiti right now? I bet you haven't, but the current Haitian president does not wants to leave office, there is no parliament and there have been protests going on for months against him. This is not new, by the way... political instability in Haiti is a constant and the main reason for the poverty there. So, who do you propose the Dominican government work with? In all of the discussion about the situation in the island the Haitian government is always absent, as if the solutions to all the problems lay on our side of the border. Rant over...
@thorodin6686 3 жыл бұрын
I thought white folks were the only one who are racist ahhhhh
@colin1765 3 жыл бұрын
@@ulisesjorge The government of the Dominican Republic, not necessarily all the people, is the closest thing Haitians have to a real ally/ friend that is true.
@niceguy391987 3 жыл бұрын
A more stable place "Somalia" 🤣
@badkingjohn5235 3 жыл бұрын
The Somali government? Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time..
@stephenbinion6348 3 жыл бұрын
Up till 1979 it was one of the more stable countries in Africa. Then it just spun out of control.
@areed2000 3 жыл бұрын
Indeed. Afghanistan used to be one of the more peaceful and tolerant countries. The world changes in strange ways.
@duneydan7993 3 жыл бұрын
@@stephenbinion6348 now Somalia is basically the word "CHAOS" in big red letters written on an East-africa map.
@stephenbinion6348 3 жыл бұрын
@@duneydan7993 I know. There was a time though. They were on our side for the Cold War and had a government. It actually rather sad. The lack of a coast guard to protect the fisheries caused the piracy off the coast.
@burningsporkdeath 3 жыл бұрын
meanwhile on today's episode of Small Arms of Elbonia...
@wurzel9671 3 жыл бұрын
3:26 "And they get the idea to take this rifle, but move it some place more stable - like Somalia." lmao
@DefconMaster 3 жыл бұрын
Somalia actually was fairly stable until the mid 1980s. It was only after the Somali Civil War and the collapse of the Barre regime in 1991 that things really fell apart.
@Norkeys 3 жыл бұрын
@@DefconMaster Yes exactly, I see a lot of jokes thrown around on this thread but Somalia was a military powerhouse well into the 80s, it was clan influence and corruption that lead to our civil war.
@wurzel9671 3 жыл бұрын
@@DefconMaster I know that, and I assume Ian does as well, but I still thought that joke was pretty funny
@felixliang6877 3 жыл бұрын
i almost spit out my water when he said that
@petesheppard1709 3 жыл бұрын
This story is starting to sound more and more like a belated April Fools'...but some things you can't make up. :p I was waiting for Elbonia...
@linditpapaj1345 3 жыл бұрын
There’s a reason they released the video on the 2nd of April so that we know he’s not joking.
@petesheppard1709 3 жыл бұрын
@@linditpapaj1345 Indeed! :D
@GunFunZS 3 жыл бұрын
They'd want it chambered in 8 mm Lebel so that they can use up their stockpiles of reserve ammo.
@petesheppard1709 3 жыл бұрын
@@GunFunZS HA! good point. :p
@garysakamoto4007 3 жыл бұрын
Elbonia? Send in Dilbert to fix this.
@SpiderDevice 3 жыл бұрын
Me watching Forgotten Weapons: 🙂 Ian: "Oh boy, do we have a funky story today" Me, ready to get funky: 😎
@HeatherSpoonheim 3 жыл бұрын
This could easily be a movie. Thank you.
@holy3979 3 жыл бұрын
What's interesting is that this thing might actually see some commercial success if made in the US today.
@blahorgaslisk7763 3 жыл бұрын
@@callumwright7459 I'd be happy just having a sporterized version as I really like the look of it. For me this was very unexpected as I usually go for the really practical designs, stainless steel and synthetics, and no wood that has to be cared for! And yet I like the looks of this? I might be running a fever, yes, that has to be it...
@FyremaelGlittersparkle 3 жыл бұрын
I could see Ruger making something like this, to be honest.
@celmer6 3 жыл бұрын
@@FyremaelGlittersparkle Ruger did make something like this but better. It's called the Mini-14 and Mini-30.
@richardsolberg4047 3 жыл бұрын
@@FyremaelGlittersparkle A Mini 14 before there was a Mini 14 ...
@Pinned2Five 2 жыл бұрын
Came here to say this. They had me at M1 Carbine in .308. Everything else is Icing on the cake.
@joshuaarroyo7235 3 жыл бұрын
Looks like the forbidden love child from the M1 carbine that tried to abandon it at a fire station.
@dragonsword7370 3 жыл бұрын
It does scream "Luv Me Mather!" But humpback flavored.
@joshuaarroyo7235 3 жыл бұрын
@@dragonsword7370 hmm that's a good way of putting it my Bru.
@stevenlee798 3 жыл бұрын
You could never get a background story like that one to happen these days.... the true "good old days"
@swendsenwiley 3 жыл бұрын
Sporter AKs from eastern Europe that are remanufactured in Vermont & then "walked" to mexico for use by drug cartels(who convert them to full auto) seems just as wild to me.
@FirstDagger 3 жыл бұрын
"Officials at Lakeland Linder International Airport found the Matra 530 missile in a shipment to a defense contractor that uses the airport to house its fleet of fighter jets.", 2020.
@logancurl9526 3 жыл бұрын
@@FirstDagger what now? If that is a real story, please provide a link because I've got to see it lol
@hendrickziegler8487 2 жыл бұрын
Germany almost had such luck with the G36 successor. Haenel was chosen as the manufacturer for the new Bundeswehr rifle, a company that was big in WWII arms manufacturing. Nowadays they do however have a handful of employees only (Wikipedia states 8 as the number for 2018). Questions were raised if they'd really manufacture the six figure number of rifles necessary and they were deselected as it became clear that they worked as front man for a UAE company and the contract was provided to H&K. But yeah - a story not nearly as crazy.
@williamprince1114 3 жыл бұрын
The parallels to Bill Rugers development of the Mini 14/30 were startling
@williamprice3929 3 жыл бұрын
Ruger was at sometime working on an up scaled Mini 14 in .308. Too bad they never went into production. Also, people need to remember that the Mini 14 is based on the M-14.
@markscherm5512 3 жыл бұрын
It was called the XGI I think. I remember it even made it into the catalog. And I sure wanted one! Then they chambered the mini in 7.62x39.
@boondocker7964 3 жыл бұрын
@@markscherm5512 I have a mini-30, in the house, owned it for over 25 years.
@davelewis3255 3 жыл бұрын
If my memory is working correctly, I recall that Ruger talked about a .308 Mini 14 back in the mid 80s. They called it the XGI - not sure if that was "X" for experimental or X as in "ex" for former. The gun showed up in some magazine articles and a prototype might have made it to a SHOT show. My understanding was that the cast receiver wouldn't reliably handle .308 pressure. Rather than design a completely new heavier receiver Ruger did some relatively minor modifications to build the Mini 30 in 7.62 X39. I bought a Mini 30 in the late 80s as a short range soft shooting deer rifle. It isn't the most accurate rifle in the world but I want something in the collection that shoots 7.62 Russian and doesn't look like an AK.
@davem2369 3 жыл бұрын
Surely a .308 Mini 14 is just and M14?😄 Ruger I'm sure could bring down production costs by IDing some savings in cast parts and other simplifications but the higher cartridge pressure would mean some more costly milled parts were unavoidable.
@heikkiremes5661 3 жыл бұрын
.30-06 is a helluva lot bigger than 7.62 NATO. Sounds really cool. 🤔
@lairdcummings9092 3 жыл бұрын
Looks like a Ruger 10/22's bigger brother.
@lairdcummings9092 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, properly developed, this would still be a useful sporting rifle.
@TheTransgenderAgenda 3 жыл бұрын
10/22 supersized
@tarmaque 3 жыл бұрын
More like a knock-off Mini-14. The genetics of the design are quite similar.
@lairdcummings9092 3 жыл бұрын
@@tarmaque halfway between; the choice of the M1 carbine basis was very smart - simple and proven. The ergonomics of the M1 carbine and the 10/22 are quite similar.
@xoxo2008oxox 3 жыл бұрын
Or like a Mini-14 bigger brother...
@jm9371 3 жыл бұрын
Neat disassembly. If you handed me that rifle to field strip, I would be scratching my head for 20 minutes before I figured out that it involved the sling swivel.
@blahorgaslisk7763 3 жыл бұрын
Only 20 minutes? I'd probably be fingering the hack saw before figuring that out. Might even have to figure it out during the post-mortem dissection...
@charlesinglin 3 жыл бұрын
That looks like a perfect offering for the "California Legal" market.
@oiartsun 3 жыл бұрын
Yup. Detachable magazine-fed but no pistol grip, so I could even change the furniture to something in polymer and as long as I didn't change to a pistol grip I could own this here in California.
@Bloodreign137 3 жыл бұрын
As a Californian, can confirm when he said it was available in 7,62x39 and took AK mags I got excited before remembering I was watching “forgotten weapons”
@troy9477 3 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing. Good to go with 10 round mags
@BasedOddz 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah your right it sounds like a gun the democrats would build... One that dont work and cost 5 million for 10 of them... "Defrauding the American People is a Capital offense."
@allangibson2408 2 жыл бұрын
@@BasedOddz Defrauding the American people gets you a presidential pardon… (At least when the Republicans are in charge (refer Steve Bannon)).
@flavio_spqr 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, someone call Guy Ritchie! This story is perfect for one of his movies. It's just absurd, in the best way possible.
@AltGrendel 3 жыл бұрын
The whole thing sounds like a Nicolas Cage movie.
@davidgrover5996 3 жыл бұрын
Moonstruck?
@billmunny6813 3 жыл бұрын
Gun/Off.
@randymagnum143 3 жыл бұрын
Surprisingly well engineered.
@Joshua_N-A Жыл бұрын
American Kalashnikov. Love how the entire guts can be removed. Swapping out chassis will be the future of firearms industry.
@Atma_Weapon 3 жыл бұрын
give me that in 7.62x39. i would have a field day. i like the concept. and that garand-esque furniture looks sweet. thanks for the great video, ian. as always, great work.
@ragnarragnarsson3128 3 жыл бұрын
Well you can't have that exactly but a ruger mini-30 is pretty dang close.
@johnjenkins8782 3 жыл бұрын
Kinda looks like an oddball Mossberg stamped "Western Field" you would have bought at Montgomery Wards in 1978.
@newdefsys 3 жыл бұрын
For $58
@sillylittleowlguy2392 3 жыл бұрын
Both of these comments are oddly specific
@hyattbusbey3563 3 жыл бұрын
As someone who loves "classic 1950s wood and steel battle rifles" I would love to own one, preferably in x39
@waltergolston6187 3 жыл бұрын
Wood & Metal guy here, liking the looks!
@boondocker7964 3 жыл бұрын
I'd buy one.
@Punisher9419 3 жыл бұрын
To be honest if Ingram is the designer and the gun doesn't work because the design is wrong that's sort of on him. And if I paid $5 million for 10 rifles and they didn't work I would be pissed to.
@davidgillon2762 3 жыл бұрын
Even with massive development efforts there are still things that pop-up that just don't work as expected. It's why we build prototypes and test them. Imagine if the first example of a new airliner was handed straight to the customer and put straight into revenue service without ever attempting a flight trial (and I've been on the fringes of several flight test programmes so I know just how many unexpected things do pop-up, ranging from the amusing - "the blasted thing just doesn't want to land" to the potentially lethal - "the cabin's depressurizing, again"). OTOH the type of issues being described are ones that should really have been looked at by Ingram when the rifles came out of the Italian shop and before they ever got near the customer. If you're the designer on that type of project then it's on you to make sure appropriate development/testing and defect rectification takes place, even if that means flying out to Italy to do it yourself. (Or Somalia, but in this case I think it's Italy where hands-on designer intervention was needed). TLDR: It's not so much a design failure as a development/testing failure. (And that's on Ingram).
@basketcase1235 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidgillon2762 funny how it seems they never even bothered to shoot the guns while they were still in Italy.
@Punisher9419 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidgillon2762 Surely Ingram should have tested the rifles before sending them to the customer. At least that is what I would do if millions of dollars where on the line. I would make sure it worked as expected and then sent it to them. Either he winged it and sent it to them without testing them or knowing they where crap or tested them and didn't give a shit. It's not like this was his first contract, surely he knew what he was doing?
@basketcase1235 3 жыл бұрын
@@Punisher9419 i also didn't get the point of sending them to Somalia for testing. ENVIRONMENTAL testing sure, pretty dusty there compared to Italy, but functionality/reliability testing? the guys over at Somalia didnt even have firearms training let alone skills to diagnose them on the spot, at least that's what I got from the story.
@blahorgaslisk7763 3 жыл бұрын
@@basketcase1235 I suspect that the Somalian government or at least some individuals were at the least partly to blame for the testing being done in Somalia. History hadn't really given them a lot of reasons to trust Europeans, and investing a lot of money in a untested design to be developed in Italy far from where they could keep an eye on what was going down was probably not an easy sell. It wouldn't surprise me if the Somalians put pressure on Ingram to have those rifles shipped as soon as possible so they could see exactly what it was they had been paying for. Trust can be hard to come by, and with Ingram half a world away this project probably looked a lot like a black hole where money just disappeared. I can't say who were right or who were wrong, or who was skimming money from the project if anyone. What matters is that trust was lost, and only having ten non functioning prototypes to show didn't make things better.
@jeremiahjones4443 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly if these guns functioned and went into production today I would definitely buy one
@guyfox1206 3 жыл бұрын
Springfield armory M1A would be what you want then, still comes in this configuration.
@BeeBee514 3 жыл бұрын
My favorite thing is that his video/audio quality never feels like it improves, keeping his videos new but also timeless
@ALIGwedew62 3 жыл бұрын
This it boys, the 308 m1 carbine
@MarcJaxon 3 жыл бұрын
"Somewhere more stable, like Somalia..." is such an odd statement these days. I know that when they gained their independence, they were decently stable for a while. But, still and odd juxtaposition these days.
@AsbestosMuffins 3 жыл бұрын
ya africa went to absolute shit in the 70s/80s because of so many factors but nobody seemed to do anything to stop it
@TheDiameter 3 жыл бұрын
@@AsbestosMuffins Why would you even try. They kicked out the Europeans who were forcing them to develop and grow, why would someone else go and waste their time just to be forced out.
@riffler24 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheDiameter Yeah it's way more complicated than just "Europeans help develop, Europeans get kicked out, Africa goes to shit" You would be very hard pressed to find a single colonial power who went to Africa "to develop". It was all for strictly economic gain. Usually they go to an area because it has a natural resource they want, then they colonize it which involves re-arranging the area's economy specifically around the extraction of that resource as well as arranging the society to benefit the colonizer, which can theoretically benefit the local people as well. Then eventually the local people get sick enough of the exploitation that they kick the colonizer out or the resource the colonizer wanted runs dry/becomes less profitable and they leave. Either way you're left with an area that had its valuable resources forcibly removed without the people who had the resources benefiting from it.
@TheDiameter 3 жыл бұрын
@@riffler24 Yes, because Africa was only 300-400 years behind the rest of the world when it was colonized. It was war torn an filled with rape, pillaging, and slavery... they were doing so much better before colonization. And now, they’ve really successfully shown the rest of the world how self sufficient they are. Ok, lol.
@caif4 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheDiameter I'm curious. Have you ever actually read about Africa or are you just spouting popular myths?
@johnhughes1140 3 жыл бұрын
I love this concept! !! A full power cartridge in a 30 carbinish sized rifle! Somebody needs to pick up this design, refine it to get the bugs out and sell me 3 of them. 1 in each caliber. In .308 this would be an amazing deer rifle!
@beargillium2369 3 жыл бұрын
I just want to really thank Ian for bringing such consistently interesting content to the table, over the last couple of years (especially last year), Forgotten Weapons has been a bastion of normalcy during some hectic times. A true historian in his own rite. If anyone deserves to be knighted for their work on youtube, in my opinion, it should be Sir Ian McCollum.
@JP-ec7hz 3 жыл бұрын
Would be cool to have more stuff like this on the market. We need more choices than just AR, AR, or AR.
@tamlandipper29 3 жыл бұрын
Everyone laughing about Somalia hasn't grasped how easy it is for promise and potential to be betrayed.
@antiKhaos 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting there seems to be a few references to a .243 model also being produced although its insubstantial. Edit: It appears to be a listing from the Italian national firearms catalog. #3377 Is the .243 model, #3378 is the .308 model and a second .308 model is listed under #5268.
@HootOwl513 3 жыл бұрын
.243 is basically a .308 casing necked down to 6mm.
@Generik97 2 жыл бұрын
Stylistically I love this rifle and even mechanically I actually quite like concept. The idea of what is a mechanically an M1 Carbine that fires a more powerful cartridge like .308 WIN seems like an excellent idea and if there we're commercial reproductions available today I would probably buy one.
@Joshua_N-A Жыл бұрын
Remington would've been still in one piece had they make this rifle en masse.
@Lumadous 3 жыл бұрын
Ohhhh, I see what's behind you and I'm already excited
@schrodingersgat4344 3 жыл бұрын
The two {screen left} got drunk... ... and made the one on the right.
@davem2369 3 жыл бұрын
He's previously covered all 3 at some point in the past
@JohnDoe-mx2kp 3 жыл бұрын
@@badgermcbadger1968 looks like a m2 browning hmg, a mg42 and a m60 to me.
@ulriklange3924 3 жыл бұрын
@@schrodingersgat4344 awesome comment 😄💪 .... Salute, from Denmark 🍻
@a.h.504 3 жыл бұрын
Meh, another M60 video? I doubt it.
@TraTranc 3 жыл бұрын
"CAT" is for the Italian National Firearms Catalog: from 1976 until 2011, the Government kept a catalog of firearms that were cleared by the National Proof House and approved for civilian sales; a firearm without a CAT number and that wasn't in said catalog could not be legally imported, sold, or owned.
@Ni999 3 жыл бұрын
Bravo.
@TraTranc 3 жыл бұрын
@@Ni999 I'm Italian.
@Ni999 3 жыл бұрын
@@TraTranc So I guessed, so was my grandfather, and so is one of my pistols with a CAT marking. I was going to make the same comment but you already did and more clearly than I would have. I think bravo means the same thing everywhere - well done, kudos.
@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu 3 жыл бұрын
"Turn my Ruger 10/22 into a .308 please!" "OK."
@jakerogers6562 3 жыл бұрын
Speaking of such things, i am currently in the process of converting a 10/22 into .25 acp using beretta 21a mags. .25 out of a 16" barrel would match .22 mag and be a great suppressor host. Would make a great small game gun. I built a test barrel and when the .25 is fired from a 16" barrel or longer its so quiet it sounds similar at the muzzle to a air rifle minus the supersonic crack.
@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu 3 жыл бұрын
@@jakerogers6562 Great idea! A 9mm or even 10mm would be cool too. Or even a .380.
@waynemelton2143 3 жыл бұрын
Minong Maniac ruger made a version in 44mag if I remember correctly
@newdefsys 3 жыл бұрын
That was actually a thing back in the 90's, for about five minutes.
@MJOLNIR49 3 жыл бұрын
With this in multiple calibers and taking the most common magazines using those calibers; I think these would have done well for a reasonable price in the U.S. without such a crazy manufacturing history.
@hannah2278 3 жыл бұрын
This channel never fails to tell a great story
@noneed4me2n7 3 жыл бұрын
Love your channel. I recently inherited a Remington 550 that my dad and I shot together when I was a child. My goal is to get it functionally restored (last time we had it out when I was a lad it always jammed after the first round) so I can share the experience with my kids. I’ve been following your channel for a while now and really appreciated all your efforts at documenting these marvels of engineering.
@scotthaddad563 3 жыл бұрын
After owning a couple original M-1 carbines and knowing their feel, I would definitely be interested in this 308 scaled up version as a plinker.
@Shaneshaneshaneb 3 жыл бұрын
Are we not going to talk about the rack behind Ian?! Lovely set.
@iansnell8897 3 жыл бұрын
M60: MG42: Ma Deuce....
@turbografx16 3 жыл бұрын
That disassembly is really neat.
@dwayneelizondomountaindewh6073 3 жыл бұрын
Ruger still hasn't gotten the .308 version of the mini 14 to work, i really wish they would get it out to us
@marvindebot3264 3 жыл бұрын
That is actually a very nice design and with a bit of refinement, I'd like one. Do it in stainless steel and it would be a great truck/boat/airplane/ski cabin/whatever gun. It's a 7.62 NATO not much larger than the size of an M1 carbine. That has to be a good thing for a lot of uses where size and weight and firepower are all important. No trouble getting mags either!
@Curtislow2 3 жыл бұрын
Was anyone else interested in how one of only ten guns made it to U.S.?
@alun7006 3 жыл бұрын
This isn't one of the ten - they were all in 7.62x39. This is one of the .308 samples.
@jarink1 3 жыл бұрын
Ian: "Hoo, boy, do we have a funky story for you today." Me:
@dbmail545 3 жыл бұрын
Think of how cool the Ruger Mini-30 would have been if it took AK magazines
@markgruenberg6277 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the information on this fascinating rifle.
@sandych33ks1 3 жыл бұрын
The spring loaded sling for detaching the stock is genius..
@sandych33ks1 3 жыл бұрын
It sounds like a modern day Remington story.
@philipcaseyacalloway204 3 жыл бұрын
That seems like a really smart and simple design. Very cool piece of history.
@amphibiousone7972 3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting history. Thanks Boss, keep them coming. 👍🏜️
@duncanwilson9533 3 жыл бұрын
That sounded like a sales pitch at the end. I guess Morphy wants him to move that rifle real bad.
@andersbendsen5931 3 жыл бұрын
I think he's just loving it. 🤷♂️
@thateffinguy2422 3 жыл бұрын
You should invite Indie Nidal from The Great War and World War2 channels on for your 1st and 2nd world war guns. He could probably give a lot of historical insight to a lot of guns plus he is very charismatic and would make a great guest!
@Trashcansam123 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t think it would work. Indie knows about the broader aspects of history but not firearms history. He wouldn’t add much.
@REXOB9 3 жыл бұрын
Beautiful rifle, and amazing story, thanks!
@RealMrSmit 3 жыл бұрын
The idea with the mags are perfect.
@maroman556 3 жыл бұрын
This is a gorgeous looking rifle.
@craigevans6156 3 жыл бұрын
Saw your Varustaleka advert for the beard oil! 😂😂😂
@infogang3603 3 жыл бұрын
HE LEFT THE STORY ON A CLIFF HANGER
@douglasclark1894 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting that the concept for this rifle is very similar to the mini14 and at about the same time frame. Both rifles are simplified versions of a Garand style action that used casting extensively. These guys had the foresight of having their rifle use AR/AK mags for their respective calibers instead of proprietary mags.
@Jp-ue8xz 3 жыл бұрын
- Dude all cool rifle but we need to move ops to somewhere more stable. - Like where? - Dude, just listen to this... S O M A L I A
@cirocasagrande9831 3 жыл бұрын
Actually, " CAT N° etc" is the number given to the model by Banco Nazionale di Prova, italian proofing autority. Every firearm sold in Italy at the time had such a number. CAT is short for Catalogo Nazionale Armi, Italian gun roster.
@steven-k. 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was going to say that, it was scrapped a few years ago. How does he know this whole story and not know that, lol. Every firearm imported or manufactured for sale in Italy had to have one. It's quite useful for identification purposes on certain Italian firearms, because Beretta for example exported a lot of guns without the marking, so it gives you some idea if the gun was originally sold (or intended to be sold) in Italy. Benelli used to mark everything with the number until they were taken over by Beretta.
@palmer4615 3 жыл бұрын
Never seen someone so content with a cliffhanger before. Good job there.
@jfsinc 3 жыл бұрын
I would love to have one. Really a cool concept.
@SafetyProMalta 3 жыл бұрын
Gave me a headache just following the story...😂😂 Hallmarks of Sabre Arms.
@patrickseaman 3 жыл бұрын
Would be interesting to compare it to the Ruger Mini-30
@loupiscanis9449 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you , Ian .
@jonathantatler 3 жыл бұрын
What a good looking gun! It looks sporterised as it is with that small magazine.
@ally_crawford 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing and informative. Go algorithm!
@harperhellems3648 3 жыл бұрын
.308 out of a m1 carbine sized frame? Hoodaddy
@donjones4719 3 жыл бұрын
In full auto! It would have made the M14 feel like a Bren gun.
@Jesses001 3 жыл бұрын
In those three calibers, I bet this would had been popular in the US market. Make a 5 round magazine for it, put a Mini 14 style scope attachment on it, and sell it as a hunting/utility rifle. I bet it would even be popular today if it could be economically produced.
@williamhart4896 3 жыл бұрын
Always a good day when both Ian and Mark Novak post on the same day thanks Ian
@EvanDickersonM81 3 жыл бұрын
if you sold these today in all 3 calibers I think they' sell pretty damn well.
@zacharyrollick6169 3 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, it's basically just a Mini-14. It would be hard to establish itself in that niche unless they could undercut Ruger's prices. The .308 could add a little extra marketability, because there is not a Mini-308. Same for the 5.56 version using AR mags. It's hard to find decent Mini-14 mags at a good price.
@feraligatorade99 3 жыл бұрын
@@zacharyrollick6169 isn't a "mini 308" just an M1A
@TroopperFoFo 3 жыл бұрын
@@zacharyrollick6169 There is the Osprey mk36. Which is a garand style action on an ar lower. Not sure if its still being made the website is still up.
@shahryarrakeen 3 жыл бұрын
Love the accent on "¡Amarilla San Cristóbal! 🕺🏽"
@b-conn6624 3 жыл бұрын
Like that giant hole in the receiver behind the bolt. Great place for dirt and mud.
@fg42t2 3 жыл бұрын
It's covered by the stock and makes it easy to clean the bore from the rear.
@Ni999 3 жыл бұрын
@@fg42t2 Gaping hole at 5:57 and 6:34 - how is that covered by the stock?
@b-conn6624 3 жыл бұрын
@@fg42t2 all I'm saying is in the mud test this thing would probably fire once and jam.
@monkeyship74401 3 жыл бұрын
Dang, that looks so much like the winchester 100 on the exterior and it reminds me of the Ruger mini-14 too. As always thank you for sharing.
@SnoopReddogg 3 жыл бұрын
If you handed me the stock for this, I'd take one look at the rear lug and think it was a M100 (or a strange model 88)
@mikehound8315 3 жыл бұрын
Ian do you have a video on the Winchester model 100?
@OpaKnows 3 жыл бұрын
I’m shocked, shocked I say, to hear that there is corruption in Somalia.
@dphalanx7465 3 жыл бұрын
"Be prepared to round up the uaual suspects..." lol
@OpaKnows 3 жыл бұрын
@@dphalanx7465 Casablanca. Good movie. Same continent. “Of all the gin joints...”
@bristleconepinus2378 3 жыл бұрын
that's a nice looking rifle, clean machine, and powerful.
@rosewhite--- Жыл бұрын
lovely looking gun!
@biggerbehindthetrigger2814 3 жыл бұрын
I really like this carbine. If it wasn't so rare it looks like it would be a good battle rifle back in the day. I would shoot it all day.
@jwnagy 3 жыл бұрын
In .308....looks like a good deer rifle
@borismekler 3 жыл бұрын
After you mentioned Lebanese-Americans getting involved in the project, and this being the year 1978, I was expecting Lebanese civil war being involved in this somehow.
@stuartwhelan233 3 жыл бұрын
l love watching you videos in the uk good to see lm not alone you give people who would never have the chance to see such guns possible through KZfaq we are very fortunate
@joakimronnback2203 Жыл бұрын
Very pretty rifle, and the story behind it is amazing.
@Cacowninja 3 жыл бұрын
*In the late 1970s and early 80s, Gordon Ingram came close to producing a military rifle in one of the most convoluted international arrangements I’ve yet heard of. Prototypes were made in Italy using British raw castings, to be tested in Somalia as part of a project to build a rifle factory there with Dominican Republic expertise from the San Cristobal armory.* That's almost as convoluted as WW1 which was... When a Serbian kills a Austro-Hungarian and so you, an Australian have to make a brutal landing on an Ottoman beach because Britain wanted to help out their friend Belglium from being destroyed by Germany who was trying to attack France.
@davidgillon2762 3 жыл бұрын
I think you can add at least another couple of layers of convolution: "When a Serbian kills a Austro-Hungarian and so you, an Australian have to make a brutal landing on an Ottoman beach because Britain wanted to help out their friend Belgium from being destroyed by Germany who was trying to attack France" because they wanted to go to war with Russia, all helped along by Italy changing sides after mobilising but before the shooting started, and by Japan attacking Germany in China.
@Cacowninja 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidgillon2762 Yep it goes pretty complicated and deep!
@davidcox2264 3 жыл бұрын
Too many chefs spoil the broth.
@pemjoe 3 жыл бұрын
I love the Ingram stories and guns
@fredrickmillstead6397 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting piece.
@marcbloom7462 3 жыл бұрын
I was always surprised the US Army didn't scale the M-1 Carbine up for 7.62 NATO. It should have taken a lot less time than the M-14 took.
@boondocker7964 3 жыл бұрын
Too logical, you have to make it difficult, like disarm the troops M-14's, and give them M-16's, that don't work for shit.
@jamesallred460 3 жыл бұрын
Damn I'm early. Best part of waking up on the west coast, hands down.
@pekkalipponen1933 3 жыл бұрын
Uncle Ians fantastic bedtime stories.
@pbr-streetgang 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid sir.
@JRbiker1 3 жыл бұрын
Dang looks like a Ruger Mini14 in .308. Come on Ruger there's your Maxi14.
@Mag_Aoidh 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting that the receiver design of the rifle wouldn’t pass “modern reliability testing” yet saved the world during numerous conflicts.
@mopar_dude9227 3 жыл бұрын
I always laugh when people dump on the M1 Garand, or the M1 Carbine, saying that they were junk because of the exposed areas allowing dirt and such in. The damn well put enough Germans, Italians, Japanese, and North Koreans (and some VCs) in the ground to be proven as a great battle rifle. And it is pretty high praise when someone like Patton claims that the Garand is what won the war. Maybe soldiers in WW2-Korea didn’t drop their rifles as much back then.
@benjaminphipps8325 3 жыл бұрын
I would say modern consumers demand more from their rifles than the actual military. The “tacticool” group of gun owners want to use the bayonet to chop lumber, mortar it on concrete, throw sand through the ejection port and fire ten thousand rounds without cleaning. And if it fails they’ll destroy it on the internet. That’s why a lot of people to this day don’t like ars and prefer ak styles. I use a polymer lower ar with budget accoutrements and it’s never failed. However, I’m not using it as a war club or speed bump. So idk
@eluberopaullo 3 жыл бұрын
awesome stuff thanks mate
@jimkoney4200 3 жыл бұрын
Cool rifle. Cool story behind the rifle.
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