Ask Ian: Did the Finns Hate the Carcano?

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Күн бұрын

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Asked by Prmetime on Utreon: In WW2, Finland was given approximately 100,000 Carcano M38 rifles in 7.35 Carcano. I have heard it stated that the Finns didn’t like the rifles. Can you comment on the veracity of that statement, and if true, do you know why they weren’t liked?
The Finnish government began negotiating with Italy to purchase available 7.35mm Carcano rifles in January of 1940, and ultimately concluded a deal to get 100,000 of them, complete with slings and bayonets. The rifles did not arrive until the summer of 1940 (after the Winter War had ended), but they rifles were put to use in the Continuation War. They were primarily issued to troops unlikely to need rifle, including the artillery corps and Air Force - although some did get issued to front line infantry. In addition, many were distributed to civilians along Finland's eastern border to offer some protection against Soviet partisan attacks on villages.
The rifles (generally called "Ternis" in Finland after one of the manufacturers) were indeed strongly disliked. This can be traced to both inconsistent ammunition and the fixed rear sights. Finnish rifle development had focused heavily on improving the sights on their Mosin Nagant rifles to allow very precise shooting, and the M38 Carcano was the polar opposite, with a fixed V-notch rear sight. The ammunition did not always shoot to point of aim, and the sights could not be adjusted for range. These factors together led to an immediate distaste by Finnish troops. The guns were often discarded in favor of captured Russian rifles, which offered more power, more familiarity, and the use of standard Finnish ammunition.
By the end of the Continuation War about 20% of the Carcanos had been lost or destroyed, and the remainder were put into storage. In 1957 they were all traded to InterArms for Sten guns, and were subsequently sold on the American collector market.
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@SmilingApollo 2 жыл бұрын

If you want to know what happened to those 7,35 rounds, a lot of them were transformed to 7,62x39 blanks for Ak and Valmet rifles. The bullets were pulled off, the shoulder of the brass was pressed downwards, the mouth of the brass was crumpled up and sealed with wax. We used those rounds, when I was a conscript at 70'es.

@IridiumRedTheOrigina 2 жыл бұрын

Fascinating. The Finns are masters of wasting little

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

@@IridiumRedTheOrigina When your neighbour is Russia and you're not a member of any big alliance you quickly realise that "If necessity is the mother of all invention scarcity is surely it's father" :P

@Simon_Nonymous 2 жыл бұрын

@@andersjjensen I have never heard that extension of the quote, but will use it from now on!

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

@@Simon_Nonymous I have stolen it myself, so I can hardly blame you :P

@Gorgane100 19 күн бұрын

@@IridiumRedTheOrigina Yep. We recently sent some hand grenades to Ukraine that were made from recycled Soviet 50mm mortar shells captured during the war. It took 80 years but now they found the right targer. We traditionally have a tendency to store stuff for a very, very long time. For example we kept the German 75mm PAK40 AT-guns in inventory until the late 80's. We also bought everything from rifles to tanks from the bankruptcy lot of the GDR/NVA when no one else was interested in it at the end of the cold war.

@aturkishgamer9790 2 жыл бұрын

I never thought I’d see a countryball in Ian’s thumbnails.

@ricardohernandez1685 2 жыл бұрын

Wacky huh?

@enricopaolocoronado2511 2 жыл бұрын

Same here. Bizarre times we live in.

@marcusfanning7513 2 жыл бұрын

Countryballs aka the least funny meme of all time 💀

@alangliniak9514 2 жыл бұрын

When you said countryball I was looking at his globe, and it made me think, do other people call globes Countryballs?

@Piromanofeliz 2 жыл бұрын

@@marcusfanning7513 you just haven't seen a good countryball comic

@PaperworkNinja 2 жыл бұрын

Viewer: "I have a question about Finnish rifles" Ian: "HAT CADDY! FETCH MY FIELD GRAY! MY PEOPLE NEED ME!"

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

Just wait until someone asks a really deep and interesting question about a French rifle... I wouldn't even blink if Ian travelled to the correct location to answer the question in situ! :P

@Rowcan 2 жыл бұрын

I like to imagine he has a full on dry cleaners style conveyor belt system, full of hats.

@Whimpy13 2 жыл бұрын

@@Rowcan It's a small elevator, kind of like a food elevator, down to the hat bunker.

@user-gm5bv2ez2r 8 ай бұрын

a lot of people here think they are funny.... ask your wife if you are, she'll change the topic [if you have a wife]

@FokkerAce1917 2 жыл бұрын

My grandpa left me one of these Finnish Carcanos. He bought it some time in the 60s (no import marks) after he came to America from Italy, so it must've been one of the first guns he owned. He said he was at a hardware store one day and a dump truck came and literally dumped a pile of these in the parking lot. They were $13 with a box of ammo so he figured why not. His friend ran the .22 plinking range at a local fair and he tried it out there blasting a hole through the steel target. Only fired that single shot before putting it away for 50 years when I took an interest in it and he told me this story.

@extragoogleaccount6061 2 жыл бұрын

Have you got it running again?

@AsbestosMuffins 2 жыл бұрын

probably didn't help that it's reputation went in the trash approximately around 1963

@thatcampingmann9543 2 жыл бұрын

@@AsbestosMuffins when you think of it jfk was probably the last ww2 Soldier/vet killed by a carcano

@Bialy_1 Жыл бұрын

@@thatcampingmann9543 When you think about it the sniper that did this probaly did not have used a weapon that even the average WW2 soldier considered inaccurate, not to mention someone from 1963 who was planning something that required exceptional accuracy ...

@Tunkkis Жыл бұрын

@@Bialy_1 According to brief reading, Kennedy's limousine was roughly between 100 to 150 meters away from Oswald between the shots that hit him. That hardly requires "exceptional accuracy".

@eetutorri8767 2 жыл бұрын

There is actually few jokes regarding Terni because we just love misery: "No man or rifle is left behind, expect Terni". And my favorite: "Finns have gone here and left behind Italian wood".

@wierdalien1 2 жыл бұрын

That's pretty funny

@morjestavuan4698 2 жыл бұрын

En oo kyllä ikinä kuullu

@jon2067 2 жыл бұрын

I'm from Terni and I've never heard that. Why do you make stuff up?

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

@@jon2067 Perhaps Finnish sayings about rifles produced in Terni never made it back to Terni because Italians don't care about Finnish sayings?

@fleebogazeezig6642 2 жыл бұрын

Are there any witty jokes in Finland about the fact that JFK was assassinated by a Carcano (well, depending on what theory you subscribe to this was only one of the rifles involved, but you get the point).

@aussievaliant4949 2 жыл бұрын

If the ammunition is unreliable, the sights become pretty irrelevant.

@exploatores 2 жыл бұрын

i was thinking the same

@livingcorpse5664 2 жыл бұрын

Ammunition/projectile is arguably the most important thing, if that isn't working right then it doesn't matter if the gun firing it is prefect.

@Jay22222 2 жыл бұрын

But the problem is a whole lot worse if even when/if the ammo is okay, your zero is fixed and not where you’d like them to be at that. Especially if the ammo is also of dubious accuracy. Ian didn’t say the problem was entirely duds but a variety of compounding problems with the ammo. Problems that unfortunately synergised with one another and the sighting issue.

@groofromtheup5719 2 жыл бұрын

picked up a case or 2 of cheap Ruag .223 a while back. about 2 mags into it "well, the kids can play with this garbage when they get older" and it's been collecting dust ever since.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

@@Jay22222 The M16 had a dual aperture sight, the battle sight was zeroed at 250m and used between 0 and 300m. The long range sight (300m to 400m) was never used, since the US Army didn't (and doesn't) train for distances longer than 300m.

@davidclink2032 2 жыл бұрын

I own a sporterized Carcano with a scope and a "LOT" of 735 ammo made in 1938. The packaging of ammo was impressive. Wooden box, sardine can, patrafin sealed box, paper sealed clips. I have shot a lot and every round fired. Gun is very accurate and quite powerful. Yes old style primers but clean after shooting so no issue. Did try a few Berdan reloads with boxer but I have enough ammo to not fool with it. Bought boxer brass and it worked fine but didn't want to didn't want to reset scope. Original fixed site was removed so no experience with those Italian fixed sites.

@sundoga4961 2 жыл бұрын

Once a gun gets a reputation, it's a heck of a task to change that. Good or bad, a reputation tends to stick.

@lampreyjaws1736 2 жыл бұрын

Same deal with cars. Like Subaru with their infamous head gaskets in the early 2000s. The reputation still lingers twenty years later.

@basillicus3959 2 жыл бұрын

In WW2 (and especially Finland) we are speaking of mostly agricultural society where most soldiers have quite little education. In these circumstances if something gets a bad reputation by word of mouth among the soldiers, nothing is going to fix it, ever, it will be repeated forever even by people who have no real or personal knowledge about the subject. It is also very difficult to tell if the reputation really has any validity or not.

@gyrene_asea4133 2 жыл бұрын

@@lampreyjaws1736 40 years. 1980's Subaru was (in)famous for 1 out of 10 being a hopeless hanger-queen. The other 9, 'good cars'.

@emberfist8347 2 жыл бұрын

@@lampreyjaws1736 Subaru’s had a bad rep before that. The 360 was banned in Japan because it was a lemon imported as a motorcycle due to the lack of horsepower and it didn’t have many safety features due to be a bike legally

@wobblyjohn8588 2 жыл бұрын

:AR-15 has entered the chat:

@vojtechslezak4553 2 жыл бұрын

Its not what happened to the ammo on the way to finland. The problem is with Italian ww2 ammo in general. And its not just small arms problem. I am doing my own research into this since this problem went ALL THE WAY from hand gun ammo, AA shells, Tank shells to the big naval guns of the Italian Navy. Yes, thats how big the ammo problem in Itali was. So much so that the soldiers in Africa where leaving the new ammo alone and used the ww1 ammo.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

Actually most of those "problems" were completely made up post-war. Starting with those of the naval guns.

@Never_heart 2 жыл бұрын

Considering the standard Italian light machine gun at this time was a stripper clip fed 20 magazine lmg. Finding out their ammo was across the board super unreliable by the already fairly unreliable ammo standards of ww2 does not surprise me

@vojtechslezak4553 2 жыл бұрын

@@Never_heart If it was just infantry ammo but the problem was much bigger. So far i have a feeling someone, Inspectors, did not do his job a all. He might as well not exist.

@lasskinn474 2 жыл бұрын

why was it though? primer compound being crap? crap chemistry?

@Never_heart 2 жыл бұрын

@@vojtechslezak4553 it could be that. But if I were to guess, a big aspect of fascism, especially Mussolini's brand was nationalism of production. For Mussolini's government it was more important to source as much as possible for as much of their armies as possible from within Italy. Even if the Italian sourced options were of a lesser quality. Idk if it applies here but it's a guess

@roadmarch0364 2 жыл бұрын

About 4 years ago, I found a near mint 7.35 Carcano with the Finnish SA markings. I think it was $400.00 well spent, as I doubt I'll find another one.

@heikkiremes5661 2 жыл бұрын

Nice!

@Nellis202 8 ай бұрын

No, you won’t, so don’t sell it no matter what.

@Schrodingers_kid 2 жыл бұрын

I've noticed a pattern. The older Ian gets the younger he acts. Gun Jesus,skirt,sorry,kilt,gamer memes,countryballs... I love it.

@JohnTheRecoilJunkie 2 жыл бұрын

He's having a midlife crisis.

@ganii1804 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnTheRecoilJunkie doesnt seem like a crisis to me

@SharpForceTrauma 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnTheRecoilJunkie Midlife thriving

@lapisFarm 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnTheRecoilJunkie No.

@Schrodingers_kid 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnTheRecoilJunkie Awesome!

@Tadicuslegion78 2 жыл бұрын

"Hey, we just got a crate of new Italian rifles." "Are they Berettas?" "No...Carcanos" "Throw 'em back"

@vittoriovaglio2031 2 жыл бұрын

Spoiler: Beretta did BUILD Carcano rifles

@notahotshot 2 жыл бұрын

@@vittoriovaglio2031 Lol, there's a "Translate to English" link on your comment.

@vittoriovaglio2031 2 жыл бұрын

@@notahotshot how does it translate to English?

@BreakdancePeach 2 жыл бұрын

@@vittoriovaglio2031 "So long, gay Bowser! WAHOO! Itsa me, Vaglio. Spoiler: Beretta did BUILD Carcano rifles. Mama mia!" - Translated by Google (Sorry)

@Thenlar 2 жыл бұрын

Really been enjoying these lengthier answers to Q&A questions! Thanks, Ian!

@hoilst265 2 жыл бұрын

Ol' JFK didn't care much for 'em, either.

@smartsimplefit 2 жыл бұрын

Lifelong NRA member, gets killed by gunman “Ironic”

@daviokamoto2143 2 жыл бұрын

@@smartsimplefit -A bait.

@ostsan8598 2 жыл бұрын

Twas a M91/38 in the old 6.5 Carcano, if I remember correctly.

@ragnarragnarsson3128 2 жыл бұрын

His gray matter did not meet the 7.35 but rather the 6.5

@SnoopReddogg 2 жыл бұрын

Shot over....

@taavihorila3879 2 жыл бұрын

AFAIK, my grandfather had a "Terni" rifle during the Lapland War. He was a truck driver in engineer (Pioneeri) troops so really never in the frontline. He did lose his rifle during first days of the war but never replaced it with anything. (truck driver in Lapland War really didn't need a rifle). He sometimes claimed he's the only soldier that went through the whole war without a rifle. (well, probably not the only one but...)

@AllAboutSurvival 2 жыл бұрын

I kinda wonder why the hate. And thanks to Ian, I’ve been learning a lot about gun history especially this “Ask Ian” content. Looking forward to more of these!

@Dafmeister1978 2 жыл бұрын

It really is a fantastic format, you get so much more information than in a more regular Q&A answer.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

The Finns actually worsened the sights, asking for them to be zeroed at 100m instead of 200m before the rifles being delivered. That way they were practicaly useless past 150m, well into combat distance.

@ristoalanko9281 2 жыл бұрын

I could believe this "inconsistent ammo theory", but the bad reputation of the Terni is fixed forever in Finland. My friend has a Carcano rebarreled to 308 Win, it's a handy and accurate "moose rifle". Lots of old Carcano ammo was used to make blanks for 7.62x39, the case has the same base dimensions.

@sharonrigs7999 Жыл бұрын

.308 pressure in a Carcano action 😬

@male90 2 жыл бұрын

My granpa was in his early teens during ww2 and did quite a lot of shooting, his father being an officer and an avid shooter. He recently recalled shooting practices arranged by civil guard where it was necessary to memorize Terni serial numbers as the sights were fixed and in order to hit anything one had to know how to compensate for each rifle when aiming... Apparently all the boys attending shared the information on sights as rifles were handed out randomly for each shooting practice. I currently have grandpa's old '39 Winchester 75 with magnificent iron sights and knowing he had a lot of trigger time with that thing, I can only imagine how he felt when he was handed the craptastic Terni...

@mistergoodfellow5847 2 жыл бұрын

Definitely liking the Ask Ian series, please keep it going!

@florianN132 2 жыл бұрын

I love this new "Ask Ian" format! So nice to see you taking more time and getting more in depth with your community's questions... Please keep it going! :)

@jeanbaptistevallee4500 Жыл бұрын

I had a Terni and a bunch of original ammo in 1970. The day I shot an old iron pipe with the 7.35 it but a dent into it. I also shot my 94 Winchester into the same piece of pipe. The 150 grain 30WCF put a clean hole through it next to the Carcano dent. I sold the Carcano and 6 or 8 sealed boxes of ammo in clips to a co-worker for 15 bucks.

@grandimehu 2 жыл бұрын

I think any manufacturing simplifications that were achieved by removing adjustable sights were offset by having to make an accessory like a folding bayonet for the rifle.

@ragnarragnarsson3128 2 жыл бұрын

You know they had to stick their italian flair somewhere ;)

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

The folding bayonet for the rifle removed the necessity for a bayonet frog and scabbard.

@ragnarragnarsson3128 2 жыл бұрын

@@neutronalchemist3241 It's a cool bit of kit no doubt, but I would think a simple steel scabbard and leather frog would be able to be made by less skilled workers than the folding bayonet.

@simplymadness8849 2 жыл бұрын

Why? Sights are more complicated.

@MPi-KM 2 жыл бұрын

@@neutronalchemist3241 They were issued with scabbards is what I understand.🤷‍♂️

@davidm.7099 2 жыл бұрын

Why are your videos always so interesting, I don't even care about history but I always listen from start to finish, how do you do that.

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

Being a good presenter is key. There's a channel called Curious Droid, and he's the same. He's done videos on battleships, satellites, paper mills, phone boxes, etc, and they're all incredibly interesting for no other reasons than the impeccable research and delightfully good presentation. I've said, kind of tongue in cheek, on other videos that I don't care if Ian one day wants to start talk about cast iron wood fired stoves specifically from the 1890 to 1920 era... I'll listen to every word and have a good time.

@AtlasJotun 2 жыл бұрын

That photos from SA-Kuva are fabulous! I love all the short jackets and high-waisted trousers tucked into their boots. As well as the varying expressions of scrutiny as they examine the new weapons in that first shot at 3:20.

@borjesvensson8661 2 жыл бұрын

Seems to be beak-boots/lappish boots to

@Bidimus1 Жыл бұрын

I have 6.5, 7.35 and 8x57 cacano rifles all shoot pretty well with hand loads. Note the 8x57 is fired with a Single shot adapter and loaded very mild

@Feiora 2 жыл бұрын

Italian ammo production being uber sketchy seems to be a common theme in WW2, even their navy had ammunition problems, and no doubt the airforce had its ammo quality problems too...

@matthiuskoenig3378 2 жыл бұрын

The navy ammunition problem was actually debunked. Infact allied testing after thr war found Italian naval ammunition to be more reliable than German and similar quality to British.

@pickler_pickler Жыл бұрын

@@matthiuskoenig3378not to sound contentious, but what is your source?

@chadsutton1787 2 жыл бұрын

Ian, I really do like this new structure of the "Ask Ian" videos on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Thank you.

@paskajaakko3965 2 жыл бұрын

Whenever i learn new things about my own country, i realize the importance and significance of these videos in a very different way

@herrkulor3771 2 жыл бұрын

Does your name Paskajaakko mean shit-jaakko?

@Amiga3000D 2 жыл бұрын

Ian, thank you for covering my question (Prmetime is my handle on Utreon). I wonder if the Finns would have been more accepting of the rifle if the ammunition quality had been better? No way to know that. All I know is that I like my M38 and now that I have had my front sight fixed, I just need to get some more ammo to see how well or poorly it shoots.

@sisleymichael 2 жыл бұрын

As always, I learn things from these videos. Thanks Ian.

@kepanoid 2 жыл бұрын

I have exactly that type of bayonet in my possession! It had "always" been in the shed at my father's home farm, and my dad doesn't know where it came from. We have a suspicion my grandfather brought it home from the war, but never got around to asking about it. Maybe he lost or "lost" his rifle and/or forgot, or "forgot", the bayonet in his backpack.

@MPi-KM 2 жыл бұрын

I have 3 of them and I thought I knew all about Finn Carcanos until you got to the part about them wanting to add adjustable sights. That is really cool 👍

@cropathfinder 2 жыл бұрын

A lot of different nations had different views on (un)popular weapons. For example the Yugoslav partizans loved the PIAT and had mixed opinions on the bazooka.Though to be fair this wasn't made better because a good deal they got were from a bad batch and they got a very small amount of ammo for them unlike with the PIAT where they got significant amount (some have proposed that this was because it was seen as a bad weapon and churchill at the time was very against the partizans). They typically employe PIATs in teams of two to 3 with the additional ones firing if the first one failed to hit or to finish off a damaged tank or armored vehicle. The operators were also highly regarded as this gave significant firepower to them in assaults and ambushes the apt comparison would probably be the german stug crews in the first half of the war.

@andreww2098 2 жыл бұрын

to be fair to the PIAT, it had no backblast, no rocket trail, could be fired indoors from a window, its warhead was larger than the Bazooka, it of course had a shorter range, weighed a ton and was a bitch to reload, but for an ambush weapon it would be great!

@borjesvensson8661 2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps the terrain in the balkans played a role? Isn't it quite hilly and rocky? Perfect for getting close up in ambushes and then getting away into the hills.

@cropathfinder 2 жыл бұрын

@@borjesvensson8661 Thats mostly in bosnia , parts of serbia and central croatia.(few PIATs made it to slovenia and serbia due to supply routes to there being harder to maintain). It was actually largely used in city fighting where a lot of praise came for it because the partizans often wanted to reduce the use of heavy ordinance in places where civilian population was still present so having something that could be used to hit heavy positions that could not be assaulted without heavy casualties was greatly welcome and when pushing trough the heavy fortifications in northeast croatia where german still had remnant panzer units or tanks they handed over to the "independent state of croatia"(basically local facist). Before the PIAT the only anti tank came from either what anti tanks guns, tanks they could capture and improvised measures(tank jacking was an actual thing that happened on a few recorded occasions).

@modulo3664 2 жыл бұрын

Low temperatures can mess with even properly loaded modern ammo. I can only imagine what already sus ammo would be like in an environment it most likely wasn't even tested in.

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

Sounds about right... but also: if most of that ammo was produced just to fulfil the order that got Italy rid of them... "Someone" might not take the same care as if they were going to produce for their own military.

@murphy7801 2 жыл бұрын

Also let's go a step further. Fit and finish (no pun) of gun is designed for Italian weather. I wonder if Finnish cold weather had odd behaviour on the rifle. Yes I know itlay has the Alps, but Finnish weather is quite a bit colder.

@Kesssuli 2 жыл бұрын

@@murphy7801 To push that same joke even further(still no pun) you can use example of italian cars. Those fiats were crap even in warm of italy. you can guess how reliable those were to start in -20(celcius) and below...

@kimmokomppa8236 Жыл бұрын

@@Kesssuli My cars manufactured in Italy has had a lot to be desire considering electrical system reliability. No joke - unfortunately...

@Kesssuli Жыл бұрын

@@kimmokomppa8236 Fix It Again Tony...

@fien111 2 жыл бұрын

Finland: We need help! Italy: We'll help! Finland: ......we need *better* help

@treyriver5676 2 жыл бұрын

Actually lol'ed

@steventhorson4487 2 жыл бұрын

Please don't embarrass yourself, comedian 😑!! The oldest company in the history of the world is an Italian firearms firm; maybe you have heard of Beretta!! Please don't put Italy down!!

@fien111 2 жыл бұрын

@@steventhorson4487 Hey, if they sent Beretta 38 SMGs to Finland no one would have been complaining. Well the Russians might have, but not for terribly long

@steventhorson4487 2 жыл бұрын

@@fien111 agreed 👍

@Vault57 2 жыл бұрын

I have a SA stamp on my 1939 7.35mm Carcano making it one of the Finnish "Terni's" from this group. I have never fired it as I have less than 10 rounds for it that came with the rifle. I inherited it from my dad who bought/traded (?) It from another G.I. who was being transferred back to the lower 48 after finishing a tour in Anchorage Alaska. My dad was going to make a deer rifle from it and actually may have used it to bag the caribou I remember being butchered on my mom's kitchen table back around 1960. He ended up buying a .270 Remington instead but he held onto the Carcano. I'm glad he did as it became the only war relic rifle I could afford...I only wish he had designs on converting an M1 Garand or even a BAR to a hunter. Well I can dream can't I? As it is the Carcano remains untouched save for the original owner varnishing the stock. Great video, I learned more about my rifle in the process.

@andersjjensen 2 жыл бұрын

Keep hanging on to it. They're getting rarer and rarer, and not many were ever produced. It may not reach big-dollar value in your life time, but it could end up being a game changer for your grand kids.

@stephenrickstrew7237 2 жыл бұрын

I couldn’t think of a more demanding environment than the Winter War .or Guadalcanal…North Africa was no picnic either … ..

@SnoopReddogg 2 жыл бұрын

New Guinea had Guadalcanel absolutely covered.

@peabase 2 жыл бұрын

The Carcano rifles didn't arrive in time to see service in the Winter War. Nazi Germany held up arms shipments to Finland, because at the time, they were still allied with the Soviet Union.

@stephenrickstrew7237 2 жыл бұрын

@@SnoopReddogg indeed it was 10 times muddier .. Buna Gona in New Guinea best described as a brown shade of hell

@stephenrickstrew7237 2 жыл бұрын

@@peabase winter war ended up being a proving ground for weapons , tactics ,doctrine , and global commitment.. Ie global appeasement

@peabase 2 жыл бұрын

@@stephenrickstrew7237 Truth be told, the Winter War was a fairly low-tech affair in WW2 terms. SMGs saw more widespread use than before and the guerilla tactics employed by Finnish ski troops had some novelty to them. I wouldn't call it appeasement (the USSR did get unceremoniously kicked out of the League of Nations), but global commitment to stop aggressors in their tracks was certainly lacking. I suppose we're slightly better off in that respect nowadays, but only slightly.

@rttakezo2000 2 жыл бұрын

I'll back up the Finns opinions. As a teen in the 80's all my friends had WWII surplus rifles (a 98k, Type99, and 03 Springfield). Not having much money, I bought a 7.35 Carcano at a gun show because it was the cheapest thing around and there was surplus ammo to be had in those cute little paper boxes with cloth flaps. Shooting that Carcano was like firing a cannon. Kicked like a mule, huge gouts of flame and the warden could hear it miles away. Made my friends rifles seem a bit anemic. Being a teen this was great! But looking back after spending decades in the Corps, I can see how it would have been hated as a service rifle.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

You were firing single base propellant cartridges (more unstable than the double base used for 6.5 ammos) more than 40 years old. The stabilizer content at least halved, and the flame temperature doubled, in respect to new ammos.

@mcintoshpc 2 жыл бұрын

The finland ball in the thumbnail inflicted tremendous pain on my soul Great video as always, Ian

@zovaynezovanyari5442 Жыл бұрын

Great video. Learned a lot.

@jordanwade517 2 жыл бұрын

We need more ask Ian!

@HellbirdIV 2 жыл бұрын

The issue with the sights is an interesting case where the differences in national military policy and its effects on doctrine really shape a rifle. For the Italians, the fixed sight allows for easier shooting by poorly-trained conscripts, cheaper manufacture to supply a vast quantity of said conscripts with the weaker industrial base of Italy, all driven to create a large, well-armed force of infantry able to work at close range in combined arms with the Italian tank arm - which, while never all that well-equipped, was also very large - all of which followed the goals of Fascist Italy to reclaim Italy's place as a major imperial power in the world. The Finns had neither the means nor the interest in becoming a major imperial power. Their soldiers were mainly there to fight defensively - though they would of course go on the offensive in support of the Germans - and because of Finland's small population, training enormous masses of soldiers were simply never going to be a factor. Finland's limited manufacturing capability was still more than sufficient to cover the needs of its small military, and with an emphasis on long-range marksmanship over combined-arms assault, precision sights were far more important than cost-effective production.

@KA-jm2cz 2 жыл бұрын

Rifle wasn't good even in attack and Finnish infantry was also consprit and in Winter war didn't get any training. It was better than only knife or axe and that is reason it was given to civilians for self defense (Russians shoots everybody or may rspe or torture no matter who you are) where there was proper weapon for replace it.

@2fwelding842 2 жыл бұрын

I know im probably late to this, but thank you, for all the video's i guess, for the shorter clips. Lots of good info but getting an hour plus to devote to a video is difficult. These give intersdting bits in an easily digestible clip

@kurkela86 2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate it very much that you study our history👍🏻

@SnoopReddogg 2 жыл бұрын

So they basically achieved the same operational requirement that the Liberator Pistol was designed to achieve at a fraction of the unit price. At least they had more range

@cryhavoc999 2 жыл бұрын

I seem to recall that the Savage Arms built No4 Lee Enfield made early WW2 were originally delivered with a simple flip up sight in an effort to expedite their delivery.

@kentr2424 2 жыл бұрын

The British had designed that sight (300 and 600 yard aperture) for ease of production, true. The original sight, with their screw-adjustable elevation, was time-consuming to make and really wasn't needed for an infantry rifle in WWII.

@nealgold8442 2 жыл бұрын

Great video and content

@bagocross08 2 жыл бұрын

I've got an alright condition M38 from the Ethiopian cache that was brought in. Overall a good rifle and the round it very mild to shoot. My only issue is that the last round get's pushed up too far to feed well usually.

@untermench3502 2 жыл бұрын

I once talked with a guy who spent seven years in Federal Prison for smuggling guns to the IRA. He said the code name for the carcano was:' Tractors.'

@prabodhsangiorgio3912 2 жыл бұрын

Hi, great and informative video. Please note that carcano is pronounced with an accent on the first A. Something like Cárcano, from the name of Giulio Carcano, famous italian bike designer. 👍🏻

@comiketiger 2 жыл бұрын

This is interesting to me. I would bet these Carcanos is where my Dad got his negative opinion of these rifles. We always had military surplus weapons passing through our house. What a wonderful time when you could find and purchase all these old guns and so cheaply. But I remember he didnt like the Carcano and recall his comments about the Carcano that Oswald used. We had rifles leaning in every corner...lol I was fascinated with them, but the rule was never touch. However, I dont remember my dad ever saying no to letting me look at one. I had a routine of safety procedures each and every time I looked at any of them. But he allowed me to satisfy my curiosity and even knowledge. Even at a very young age. It was wonderful. I've always loved History and have always felt this sparked it when you can learn about weapons from around the world and the history of there usage. God bless all here.

@quentin8585 2 жыл бұрын

It's really interesting how the military needs change from one country to another, thanks for the nice video. I do have a question tho, in what sense was the ammunition unreliable? Did it have the tendency to explode, to jam..?

@Cats-TM 6 ай бұрын

He has such nice hats, I absolutely love it.

@jamesharbour7622 2 жыл бұрын

I'd would never ever thought that Ian would put the Finland Country Ball in its thumbnail. I kinda like it :)

@snallygaster2946 2 жыл бұрын

I’m lucky enough to have a M38 in 7.35 that my dad passed down to me. Civilian Ian initially told me how to determine that it came from Finland and how much he loves the gun, and now Footsoldier Ian is telling me why is Finnish comrades thought it was garbage.

@Telecasterland 2 жыл бұрын

That is the coolest cover shot yet Ian.

@christnera 2 жыл бұрын

You know who really disliked the Carcano? The Kennedy family.

@steventhorson4487 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly 💯 right.....it wasn't that bad!!

@LaDeXi 2 жыл бұрын

My grandpa had a bayonet from those but it got lost at some point when they moved 10 years ago.

@bwhog 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic info! I've got to agree. The sight on my M/39 is probably the best military sight I've run into so far. That and the M1903 are the two sights I love best. So with better ammunition, how does that rifle perform today?

@bad74maverick1 2 жыл бұрын

It's like Ian is a superhero in a way. When people need him for gun advice, they simply point a light in the sky with the silhouette of the gun they want to know about, and inevitably, he comes!

@MrBurntfinger 2 жыл бұрын

I bought one at an estate sale with some original ammo. Fired 5 rounds and it worked. Bought some new ammo and reloading dies and love it. YMMV but so far it seems pretty solid.

@forbidden.shadow545 Жыл бұрын

picked up an Finnish M38 a couple years ago, and i loaded my own rounds (since ammo is nonexistent), and that rifle is surprisingly accurate!

@snotnosewilly99 2 жыл бұрын

Fixed sites for frontline troops A frontline US soldier using the M1 Garand only adjusted his rear site - once - in 6 months on the frontline in Europe. In training in the US they were instructed to adjust their sites at each new position. In actual combat they rarely adjusted their sites. Probably due to the targets being at roughly the same distance and the targets would pop up and disappear so quickly, they had no time to use the sites. (from the auto-bio ' Men of K Company' published in 1972)

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

The M16 had a 250m zeroed battlesight, used from 0 to 300m. The long range aperture was never really used.

@romaliop 2 жыл бұрын

But that one time of adjusting the sights probably makes 95% of the difference, no?

@Alan.livingston Ай бұрын

I think there was a possible apocryphal tale of the charge of the light horse at Beersheba, where the Turks were panicked and failed to adjust their sights as the enemy closed in at speed, firing over their heads. It's why I hunt with a capped turret scope. As sure as sure can be, I'd get pig fever or old timers disease and forget to twiddle or untwiddle something and the opportunity would go begging.

@donakahorse 2 жыл бұрын

I have an M39, well used, battle scarred. My friend has a Carcano, almost new looking. The M39 out shoots it by a large margin, it's more reliable, and it hits much harder. If I bought a carcano, it would be a wall hanger. I love the M39

@Slitegoz 2 жыл бұрын

I bet there surely was a super secret project to add adjustable rear sights to those sten guns!

@luisnunes3863 2 жыл бұрын

Ian, Drachinifel has been all over the utter unreliability of italian WWII ammo has it refers to battleship main battery ammo. The quality was all over the place, generally trending towards bloody awful. Ocasionally in spec.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

A shame Drachinifel contributed to spread that bogus info (he never stated the quality being "all over the place, generally trending towards bloody awful. Ocasionally in spec", but that's internet). Infortunately he does not read Italian, so he has to rely on what he finds in English. Second hand sources, wartime propaganda, etc... A common problem between self-made historians. The only source for the problem with Italian naval shells was Adm. Iachino, that had to justify his fiasco at Gaudo / Cape Matapan, and had been debunked by other sources, (IE Adm. Emilio Brenta, or the same Fire Director Officer of the Vittorio Veneto ad Gaudo). Reality is that in the conditions of the clash at Gaudo, no WWII battleship would have hit anything. As a matter of fact, the Italian 152mm and 203mm are the only Cruiser naval guns that obtained some +20km hits during WWII (even twice in the same battle, so it was not a fluke).

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

@@grrrexky For that matter (no, the irony didn't pass over my head), tested by the Allies after the war, Italian shells proved to be more reliable than German ones. Not a big feat if you count that, of 4 hits of the Bismarck on the Prince Of Wales, only two shells exploded.

@jounikankainen2545 2 жыл бұрын

Thx for thus one.

@SharpForceTrauma 2 жыл бұрын

Countryball reference in an Ian video thumbnail? Hes becoming more powerful

@georges.7683 2 жыл бұрын

RE: Sights - Sounds like the Finns might have appreciated M1903 Springfields.

@Finlandiaperkele 2 жыл бұрын

Thorne/Törni actually preferred to carry M1903 when he was in Vietnam.

@coolsenjoyer 2 жыл бұрын

@@Finlandiaperkele I thought he mostly carried the Swedish m/45 SMG

@kimmoj2570 2 жыл бұрын

@George S. Finns would had loved to equip whole army of 300.000 men with any decent Mauser derivative rifle,, and there were initial plans to do it. Just not fiscally possible. Finland was then very poor country. Extracting everything possible from Mosin platform and so keeping us in same ammo pool as enemy was in the end wise solution.

@pohjanmies5516 2 жыл бұрын

In fact Finnish Civil Guard were aware about the sights of Springfield 1903 rifles when they designed their rifles. Harry Mansner who designed excellent rear sight for m/28-30 rifle thought that that Springfield rifle sights were too fancy, fragile and way too complicated. He wanted to create sights that would withstand hard use but still would be fit for best of the shooters.

@georges.7683 2 жыл бұрын

@@pohjanmies5516 Perhaps the sights of the Pattern 1914 Enfield/M1917 Enfield would have been preferred over the M1903 Springfield.

@alexdemoya2119 2 жыл бұрын

Angry Finball triggers Russian fight or flight response

@marcuscc1 2 жыл бұрын

I love history, and gun history even more.

@michaelmacek9433 2 жыл бұрын

I have an Italian Carcano 7.35m/m carbine that was a vet bring back from WW2 . It is fitted with a folding bayonet and features a fixed rear sight like the one featured in this video. Of all the milsurp weapons in my collection, it is the most unpleasant weapon I have to shoot. The muzzle blast is uncomfortable on the face and the rounded shape of the buttplate makes for a painful experience from recoil. I take less punishment from shooting one of my 8 m/m Mauser rifles with " hot" Turkish ball ammo.

@thestrangechannelofjeff7426 3 ай бұрын

I have lots of high end , rare , modern rifles. But. I bought a 350 dollar m97 calvary carcono. It's my favorite gun . I just love it

@davidcox3076 2 жыл бұрын

Seems very practical on the part of the Finns. Kind of like the Eddystone Enfields the US shipped to the UK in their hour of need. When you really need arms you take what you can get. It just didn't work out well in the end.

@joonaskosonen95 2 жыл бұрын

There is saying that '' only thing you could hit with Terni was the ground if you stuck the barrel in meter deep''

@Lowkicksfordayz 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video !

@LegendStormcrow 2 жыл бұрын

So, the Carcano wasn't a bad rifle, just a bad quality round and the sights were bad used in the wrong war.

@jubuttib 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, wrong audience and bad ammo can basically destroy a gun. Admittedly though in a war situation like that you have to think of the gun and ammo as a system, and bad ammo means a bad system. Doesn't necessarily mean anything afterwards in civilian circles. =)

@samhinder2224 2 жыл бұрын

Not even a bad round per se, just badly produced

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

@alessandrorona6205 2 жыл бұрын

No it's a bad rifle. There's a good video of Ian and InrangeTv where Ian use in a competition against InrangeTv using a Kar98 his carcano. The kar98 mopped the floor with the carcano. It was so bad that the carcano bolt came out of the rifle during fast reloads. It's was also super slow to shoot. InrangeTv could fire an entire magazine out of the Kar98 and reload before Ian could even shoot 5 rounds out of a Carcano.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

@@alessandrorona6205 Ian had problems activating the safety that I've never seen anyone else to have, for how much fast he could cycle the action. Simply testing one sample IS NOT A STATISTIC.

@blackore64 2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, the fixed rear sights and carbine length should have made this ideal in forest fighting. I quess that was just different from what was used to, as even Suomi Submachine guns had adjustable sights.

@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын

@blackore64 2 жыл бұрын

@@neutronalchemist3241 That I was not aware of. It really does explain a lot, as 200m Zero for combat would not be bad, but yeah 100m, that's just awful.

@Amiga3000D 2 жыл бұрын

Actually, I think the Finns rezeroed the sights for 150 meters, not 100. I don’t know what difference that might make but I do know at close range you need to bury the top of the front sight into the bottom of the rear v notch to be on target.

@blackore64 2 жыл бұрын

@@Amiga3000D 150m is the standard combat zero in RK-62 and was cut into Finnish M91 sights as well. It would propably be entirely sufficent for forest fighting, but of course there might be situations where you need to make those 300m shots.

@reliantncc1864 2 жыл бұрын

I have the same hat. It's a Finnish Army surplus hat, and it's a distinctive and cool look.

@blegi1245 2 жыл бұрын

Ian"s is probably a repro. Varusteleka did a batch of repro M/36 uniforms some years ago.

@Ylinatsiperkele 2 жыл бұрын

Also known as "verikauha" or "Blood scoop"

@lukum55 2 жыл бұрын

My grandfather was issued with a Carcano at one point. He said it was the worst rifle he ever used, he didn't elaborate the reasons any further but he was thrilled to be issued with a M39 Mosin later on.

@nohomeforfreepeople2894 2 жыл бұрын

Similar to how many returning GI's from Vietnam felt about the early M16 running corrosive ammo?

@emberfist8347 2 жыл бұрын

Ammo wouldn’t be a problem if they had cleaning kits.

@kodiakkeith 2 жыл бұрын

Love these new "answer a question" vids. When a Patreon asks a question, it's going to be a question many people have. This works!

@garyneilson1833 2 жыл бұрын

Who would want to buy a Carano in a weird calibre step forward Elbonia

@Kumimono 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if one reason the name Terni stuck, is that in Finnish, the milk from a cow (and a human) that's given birth recently is called terni milk. Rich in protein, makes delicious cheese. Anyway, word/name in use, and easy to pronounce.

@Kesssuli 2 жыл бұрын

Now that is appropriate suit for video theme.

@maciejkrol2255 2 жыл бұрын

Brought to you by Ian's Finnish alter ego, Janne Makkollainen 😉

@D64S 2 жыл бұрын

Good video. My friend who knows a lot about Finnish war against the terroristic warcrime dictatorship of russia had no idea of these rifles. These are a total sidenote but it is very good to know about them.

@timrea9003 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks again Ian for your insight.. Would like to see your take on the JFK 6.5mm rifle... Apparently good enough for some.... Bless you man

@emberfist8347 2 жыл бұрын

The rifle was good if you got ammo from the same lot.

@americanrepair 2 жыл бұрын

Gun Jesus might not walk on water but he sure can balance a rifle on a globe and a bookcase.

@Yupppi 2 жыл бұрын

I wanna go back to the fashion where those hats were in.

@money501st8 2 жыл бұрын

damn hope I can get a Varusteleka M/36 summer tunic...

@tnesp 2 жыл бұрын

One Finnish Terni legend I've seen in soldiers' memoirs is that Ternis were produced by Italians for the war in Abessinia (Ethiopia) and because of the mountainous terrain there the fixed sights were set to 600 m. Hence, if you tried to shoot at a Russian in normal fighting conditions, your rounds were way over target. If this is based on unofficial field tests it suggests some inconsistency in sight zeroing at the factory.

@tomcluny8423 2 жыл бұрын

Ian where did manage to get such a good m35 summer tunic?

@aharkness5657 2 жыл бұрын

That was interesting. I'm a finn and don't recall ever hearing about this bit of history. Impressive pronounciation and outfit, too. :)

@twentyfifthdui4717 16 күн бұрын

Does anyone know what year imported military surplus arms started having to have an import marking stamped on in the US.

@Alan.livingston Ай бұрын

The Carcano is very common in Australia, given how many ended up here after we fought the Italians in WW2. To this day I have never seen a 7.35mm example in the flesh.

@anttitheinternetguy3213 2 жыл бұрын

My grand dad held carcanos on high regard. If i understood correctly he had one while he served in winter war

@peabase 2 жыл бұрын

If your granddad indeed had one, it must have been in the Continuation War. The "Terni" didn't see action in the Winter War.

@anttitheinternetguy3213 2 жыл бұрын

@@peabase could Be, he served through both winter- And continuation war. although i remember that My father Said he had one in winter war, but its second hand knowledge. My both sides grand dads, both served on winter And continuation war and died in early 2000's.

@anttitheinternetguy3213 2 жыл бұрын

@@peabase now when i recall, My fathers father indeed was issued a russian mosin-nagant that had a imperial german Eagle stamp, most likely ww1 german captured mosin that was handed to finns by germans, i Have his war diary from 1939 that mentions it. so he most likely wasnt issued a carcano. The war diary goes on couple of months into a war And Then abruptly ends. My father Said My grand dad most likely realized The war wasnt really something to write about. So he mustve got the appreciation during The continuation war

@thewrathfulbadger2614 2 жыл бұрын

Ian will never pass up the opportunity to flex his immense historical wardrobe

@Fast85FoxGT Жыл бұрын

It is interesting to see even on the small arms level of manufacturing ammunition that their quality was subpar. That was one of the biggest reasons the Italian navy did so poorly. They had subpar quality shells that plagued almost all of the big ships.

@jorgeenzio8579 Жыл бұрын

My grandfather had a Terni rifle, brought back from the war. It was generally said that the barrel of the Terni rifle was made of too soft steel, is that true?