I want a April Fool's video were Shannon lays out the ground work for a 2000 team NHL.

I will die on the hill against playoff expansion. A clean 16 team playoff is so much better than having byes and play-ins between teams that don't deserve to be sniffing the playoffs in the first place

As an American, I would absolutely love to see the Nordiques come back.

The current owner of the Jazz is very wealthy, also don't forget, Salt Lake City has the 2030 Winter Olypics coming, They need an NHL capable arena for that too.

I truly believe that the NHL will get to 36 teams quicker than people might expect. An underrated aspect about all this NHL expansion talk, is that the NHL has the most flexibility in how many markets they can still expand to, especially in the US. The NFL has all 32 of their teams in the US. MLB and NBA have 29. MLS is currently at 26, but that will officially be 27 when San Diego joins the league in 2 years. The NHL currently has 25 US teams, which is why I feel like Houston, Atlanta, and Quebec City are almost guaranteed locks to get teams. The 4th team will probably end up being one of Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or a darkhorse like San Diego/Portland/Indianapolis/Milwaukee/Oklahoma City. This would allow the NHL to get 3 more US markets to get to 28 US teams which would put them closer with the NFL/MLB/NBA/MLS. Quebec City would also allow them to finally throw Canada a bone since they got at least those 3 extra US markets to offset the Canadian one.

Quebec City: Can we have an expansion? Bettman: We already have expansion at home Expansion at home: *Atlanta*

I think Salt Lake City would do pretty well. Kind of like a slightly smaller version of Denver. It’s a prosperous, growing city full of younger demographics. Good corporate presence (tech and financial services, etc). There is a winter culture there as well. Winter sports/activities are big there; unlike places like Phoenix. The existing teams there (NBA, MLS) draw very well. The (proposed) owner is young-ish, agressive, smart and charismatic. It’s relatively easy to get there (good air access from other US cities). I think an NHL team in SLC would do very well.

Love to see Hartford come back. But it's not likely at all.

I rarely see any talks about expanding the NFL to more than 32, probably because they're large enough and marketable enough that they don't need to expand to make money. The NHL needs to worry about its marketing and culture more than expansion if it wants to grow.

If they're really going to expand again then KC needs to be considered. There's no NBA team to compete with and an arena with no tenants (except for a 4 day basketball tournament in March) and a 17.5k seating capacity. It makes so much more sense than Atlanta

Yeah would make sense to put Houston and SLC in the central and move Arizona back to the Pacific (if they stay in Arizona). SLC is basically directly north of Phoenix so there's a 6/half dozen type situation but putting SLC in same division as Colorado just makes sense

Atlanta the Mike Babcock of Expansion Hockey Cities.

Great video, thank you Shannon again for the great work you put into videos for us on a daily basis! Greetings from Slovakia! :)

Can you imagine the roster devastation caused by an expansion draft with FOUR teams?

Imagine if Atlanta gets a team back before Quebec

32 teams is genuinely plenty enough.

Kelowna, Kamloops, Vernon & Penticton.

Kinda surprised that Kansas City isn't being discussed at all for NHL expansion. I'd say KC has a better shot than what many think.

Expanding to Atlanta feels like that Monty Python skit about building the castle in the swamp.

Only issues I have with these expansion ideas are: 1) if any of these teams fail, they will have to fold because there are not many viable markets left to relocate beyond this list 2) The NHL's deal with ESPN proves just how little the league cares about expanding the game and reaching new fans. ESPN and the NHL have made it impossible to watch NHL games even when you pay for every service available. New/casual fans will get tired of this and move on making it tough for fringe markets to survive unless their team is a perennial Cup contender.

I will say that I'm not from Atlanta but looking at where the new arena is proposed makes the Sens arena appear downtown in comparison. It's over 30 miles from downtown.

Can we just not give Atlanta another shot? They've already had two teams move away, pretty sure that's good evidence no one is going to go to games.

Houston and Atlanta have experienced the same thing many "sun belt" cities have experienced. Educated people with more disposable income from northern states moving south. So the idea that these markets are more open to hockey makes a lot of sense to me. Its why the florida teams and the Hurricanes are doing so well now (on top of their success)

Economics and market size be damned, Quebec deserves its Nordiques back.

Rosters are gonna start being filled with more non-nhl level players if we keep adding more teams

36 NHL teams is ridiculous in my opinion. 32 is already to many with a good amount of teams barely scraping by financially. Plus, more teams just waters down the on ice product even more.

Amazing! I guessed 3 of the 4 cities that you mentioned. I thought you were going to say that Quebec was too small, as so many others have. I think passion from the fans in Quebec city and surrounds could make up for that to no small degree. Another city that I heard mentioned recently was Kansas. I still could see some potential there, too.

I wonder if Halifax would ever be able to get a hockey team. 13th most populated city in Canada, already a hockey market, and one of the faster growing Canadian cities. Maybe one day

I would love to see the NHL expand to 36 teams.

Toronto needs a team their fans can be proud of

Love the Quebec Jersey- bring them back! Would love a Houston Aeros return too.

Please bring a team to SLC NHL. I'd love that

I really dont want more expansion as it dilutes the talent and makes it that much harder for each team to win. If anything, relocation.

yay more dilution

My biggest hangup with Quebec is I think the whole thing with players not wanting to play in Canada would be loudest there. Like I get it, it can be overblown, but it's the smallest Canadian city in the league if it has a team and it speaks French. So if I'm an American player, I'm not excited about that (sure it's a nice town, lovely to visit, but live and play there?) I think there's a disproportionate amount of passionate hockey historians on this channel that have nostalgia for the Nordiques, again, I get it, but it's gonna take more than that.

The hockey coverage by Atlanta-based TNT sports has definitely renewed enthusiasm for a franchise there. The city has also changed demographically in the last decade.

I just have to say you have a great hockeymind! You are by far my favourite hockey youtuber! More teams seems like a lot of trouble though, like are the talent level across all the teams gonna be viable, or are there gonna be like 5 teams that are just waaaaay below the rest of the teams?! That is the kinda questions that keep me up at night!

No more teams!!

been waiting on this one

I seem to remember it work well when Vancouver had the nba team called grizzlies same when Montreal had the Canadians and MLB team called expos

I would like to see Portland get a team. I am biased because it is so the Canucks will get a tiny bit of help with travel times, but also so the Pacific division can live up to its name even more. I was very happy to Seattle get a team for these exact reasons. Plus, better rivalries in the pacific NW.

Honestly, from this list of cities in the video, I think at the very least, if expansion does happen again, it will be Houston and Atlanta without a doubt. Those markets are just too big to ignore and if both have peaked a strong interest, which they have, they will more than likely be the next 2 teams added to the NHL by and/or around 2030! and like you said, since the NHL came out the other day and said they are open to having Atlanta as a potential expansion team in the coming years, then it sounds like we will see Atlanta get another team eventually and it will be only a matter of time. Personally, as a Georgia native and die-hard Thrashers fan, this is exciting news and with the steps they are taking to building this new Arena in the suburbs and the ownership interest in luring an NHL team back to Atlanta, it is definitely in the right direction and a very different approach than what the Flames and Thrashers ever did! Also, I think that if Atlanta does get another team, it will 100% work. Heck, the Falcons, Hawks, and Braves have been in the Atlanta area since the mid-60s and are still in Atlanta till this day...Are professional Atlanta sports teams good compared to other cities with professional sports teams? Heck No, but what keeps them here is 1) management/ownership and 2) the size of the Atlanta market today and how it's grown so much in the last 50 years compared to other cities. So can Atlanta (#6 city market in US) work for NHL? Absolutely but only with the right management. and if Florida can work for not only 1 but 2 NHL teams, in smaller markets compared to Atlanta (Tampa at #13 and Miami-Fort Lauderdale at #18 in the US TV Markets), it can work with Atlanta and will last!

I would consider Kansas City a bigger contender than another try at Atlanta or trying Salt Lake City

The Hockey Guy I believe right on with these predictions. Not Atlanta though, but Milwaukee?

I still want to go back to 30 teams.

32 is just such a perfect number for a league, the nhl should focus on relocation before expanding again.

When are we getting the video about top teams in the west as cup favorites you did the east.

14:40 shannon the rumoured expansion fee for the NBA is around 3-4 billion. Will probably be Seattle and Vegas. Real question is when the NBA will announce it

As a reference for Atlanta, Denver has the Nuggets (NBA champs), the Broncos, Rapids, Rockies, & Mammoth, as well as the very successful and popular Avalanche, and Atlanta is a bigger metro area than Denver is. That being said, the arena has to be located in a good area for people to get to.

I think 32 franchises is a perfect number. Should someone relocate, Quebec City, Milwaukee, Portland, or Baltimore should be viable markets.

Interesting take

Hartford, Quebec, Salt Lake, Milwaukee. Keep it as North as possible.

My four picks would be Portland, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Quebec. Just a thought. (And KC certainly deserves a second chance before freaking Atlanta gets a third chance).

I’m unsure what the quality of play looks like with 36 teams. I’m pretty sure, at least in North America, there are more American style football players than hockey players and the NFL hasn’t gone past 32 teams.

Thanks Shannon for being one of the only hockey media folks to not ridicule or poo-poo NHL hockey in Atlanta. The Kings are my first sports love and always will be, but as a hockey-loving resident of Atlanta for 30+ years, I loved my Thrashers too. By no means were they an easy team to be a fan of. Terrible product on the ice, terrible marketing, terrible sweaters (most of them...the T-bird was solid), the Dan Snyder sadness, 10+ years of utter ineptitude across all levels of the organization. I'm still not confident we will get another shot, and I totally get where other NHL fans think we don't deserve it, which is why I am still so bitter that we lost them over a decade later. But if somehow we do get another shot, I really hope we keep the name Thrashers. New colors, new logo maybe ( I'm partial to brown. Always loved the Hershey Bears old color scheme.) But the Thrashers team name still makes me proud. Why? I have no idea. Interesting fact, when the Atlanta Falcons NFL team was coming into the league in the 60s, "Thrashers" was one of the proposed names that lost out in the fan poll.

Lots of cities have NHL and NBA teams, often sharing venues and working with different fanbases… LA somehow makes it work with 2 NBA teams along with the Kings.

Usually I'm against the idea of expanding the playoffs but if the league were to expand to 36 teams I'd have to start supporting it. It's already become harder to make the playoffs in the NHL and if only 16 of 36 teams were to make it every year you'd have some legitimately good teams not quite making it and that, in my opinion, would be a bit of a problem. As a fan of hockey there's little more exciting than watching your team duke it out in a best of seven. Having a full twenty fan bases miss out on that every year would be rough.

32 teams is already a lot, adding more makes no sense. If you want to add more clubs you need to implement a relegation system with the AHL.

As a completely different thing, I'd be intrigued by a video getting your reactions or opinions on some hockey jerseys you don't own.

This aged well

This might not happen soon but this is inevitable, wether people like it or not. Just a matter of time, too much money to be made

Die hard hockey fan here. Grew up in Chicago, moved to Houston for adult years, retired overseas now. Houston is dubious at best. Dedicated fan base is low. Many of us hang out at one bar - Maple Leaf Pub or play in the few adult beer league teams in town. Would have to have a winner in first few years to make it and stick. Wish it were different, but those are the facts of life in Houston. If I were NHL, I add couple more teams in Toronto and Montreal area first (forget what the restrictions are on that, but let’s assume they are few). Then, I’d go to Salt Lake.

One aspect about Salt Lake City potentially getting an NHL team I’m surprised not a lot of people have brought up is the potential of a geographical rivalry with the Avalanche. You already got rivalries like Real Salt Lake vs The Colorado Rapids in the MLS, Utah Utes vs Colorado Buffaloes in College Football and it wouldn’t shock me if Nuggets and Jazz fans have a distaste for each others teams. The Avs have their fair share of rivals already but a proper geographical rival could be a ton of fun with the NHL having its own “Rocky Mountain Showdown”

Dallas-Fort Worth has all 5 major sports and the population of the metro area of Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth are similar, having around 7 million people.

32 teams is perfect. I’d rather see 32 strong markets than make the league too thin. Get Arizona moved to Houston and don’t touch a thing. If down the road a team like Anaheim can’t make enough money, then move them too, but I think 32 is perfect.

24 teams was the perfect number. Here's why. 24 teams. 2 conferences. 2 divisions in each conference. So, six teams in each division. A team plays the other 5 teams within its division 8 times. That is 40 games with 42 left over. A team then plays all of the teams in the other division within the same conference 4 times. That is 24 games. So, we've played 64 games so far with 18 left over. 12 teams in the other conference. You play one division's team once. Another six games with 12 left. Then you play the other division's teams twice. You alternate years that you play one of the other divisions twice. That makes 82 games total. You could even have a team play teams in the other division within your conference 3 times, and then the teams in the other conference twice. A 24 team league gives you that flexibility. When it comes to playoffs, you play out of your division and then out of your conference. This system creates rivalries and places a heavy emphasis on games within your division and within your conference. Anything more than 24 teams was superfluous. The NHL watered-down its product and killed rivalries with each team they added over 24.

ATLANTA is a perfect place.for the NHL to come(Yes again). Look at what success the MLS has in Atlanta. They said MLS wouldn't work in Atlanta but great ownership and marketing and Atlanta tops the MLS in attendance filling up 70,000 plus seat Mercedes Benz Stadium. I Was and am a Huge Thrashers fan!!! I really believe that the growth that Atlanta has had since 2011 will really help as well as the plan to build the 1 billion dollar arena complex in North Atlanta. Traffic going downtown was a MAJOR issue in the past with Philips Arena. Let's go!!

SLC does have 2 arenas if they need to (Delta Center and Maverik Center) the only downside is the MC only seats 12,000 while DC seats 20,000 but also hosts the Jazz. So they’ll either have to do a dual use arena or build a larger facility then Maverik Arena

If the league goes to 36 teams I would like to see: Houston(central), Kansas City(central), Atlanta(metro), Quebec City(atlantic). Move the coyotes back into the pacific division.

SALT LAKE CITY?!? Whenever I used to make a franchise on NHL ‘06 as a kid I would ALWAYS use Salt Lake City because I thought it sounded cool (SLC Outlaws Babyyyyy!!) That would be SO HYPE!

Quebec and Anchorage, Ak.

As a Utahn where the nearest hockey team is almost 6 hours away from me 🙃 I would love to have a team only 3 hours away in salt lake 😂

Salt Lake City over Milwaukee? Nah

How tf is Wisconsin not discussed ever? Perfect place. Could be a great new rivalry for the Wild and Blackhawks.

good points. also, clearly the nhl improved its vetting of possible expansion markets and ownership over time. Ten of the new teams established between 1967 and 1980 eventually folded or moved as the league went from 6 to 23 teams. only one expansion team of the 9 established after 1980 (atlanta for the second time) closed their doors. this info comes from lists and charts on wikipedia.

I would love to see a team in Salt Lake. However, that is extremely biased from me since I'm a hockey fan in Utah.

The NHL has a unique need to expand beyond 32 teams. The NBA, MLB, and MLS all have just 1 or 2 teams in Canada at most, while the NHL currently has 7. Because of this, the NHL has a much smaller footprint in the US than its rivals. If you look at the NHL US map, there's a lot of obvious deserts that still need to be filled, but those slots belong to Canadian markets. I think this is part of why hockey is less popular than its rival sports in the US currently. In order for the NHL to cover every corner of both the US and Canada, they have to keep expanding. Because of this, I am convinced that 40 teams is an inevitability in the near future. Especially since hockey continues to grow in popularity in new markets.

I think we already have too many teams as it is. However, i do agree with Houston and Quebec City. If anyone deserves to have NHL hockey it’s Quebec City, and I really miss watching the Nordiques. And they will literally sell out every home game whether they are 1st in the NHL or dead last. Salt Lake City still seems like a strange one to me, I don’t know why, it just does. I could see it work sure, just seems like a bit of a random choice. Atlanta, personally, I think it’s just time to move away from that idea. I’m really surprised that Kansas City and/or Milwaukee wasn’t mentioned. I really think the NHL could work well in those two markets. I totally get the Houston thing: big money etc, but will the fans stick around whenever the team is mediocre? If fans don’t come, you don’t make money no matter what city you’re in. I have a feeling Vegas could end up like that too if the on-ice play ends up not very good. Personally, I think the NHL is over saturated with markets as it is. If it was to go to 36 teams, I would not want the playoff format to change. No byes, no qualifying rounds, just four series with a best of 7 games each.

I was thinking Portland, KC, Milwaukee and Hartford.

I really like THG's fit in this vid. I had an old Flames shirt that was the absolute perfect shade of red. I've never been able to replace it. I'm not a Flames fan, I just like the old logo and red.

I really don't think NHL should expand beyond 32, 30 was already more than enough

I want the Whalers and Nords back. As for the other two I'm open to anywhere. After further thought I vote for Shannon's 40 team league.

There are WAY too many teams already. Most teams are now generic 1-2 star and one line teams. And it sucks.

Expanding to 36 teams also opens up the possibility of 6 divisions of 6 teams, rather than 4 divisions of 9. I think these divisions might make some sense if the cities Shannon proposes were the expansion cities. West - Northwest: Calgary, Edmonton, Salt Lake City, San Jose, Seattle, Vancouver - Southwest: Anaheim, Arizona, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Vegas - Central: Chicago, Colorado, Detroit, Minnesota, St. Louis, Winnipeg East - Southeast: Atlanta, Carolina, Florida, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Washington - Metro: Columbus, New Jersey, N.Y. Islanders, N.Y. Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh - Northeast: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Toronto A major point of consideration for expanding the league would be the scheduling format. If the NHL wanted to continue the balanced format where every team plays at least one home and road game against every other team, that would still be possible, but it gets a lot harder if they want to keep it at 82 games. Let's take a look at a couple potential formats: 6×6 - Format 1: play each team in opposite conference twice (36 games), each other team not in division twice (24 games), each divisional opponent 4 or 5 times (22 games)-this is probably the closest to the current NHL format - Format 2: play each team in opposite conference once, flipping home arenas every other year (18 games), each other team not in division twice (24 games), each divisional opponent 8 times (40 games)-I'm pretty sure this is similar to a schedule that was used in the 1980s - Format 3: play each team in opposite conference twice (36 games), each other team not in division 3 times (36 games), each divisional opponent 4 times (20 games)-this would add 10 games to the season 4×9 - Format 4: play each team in opposite conference twice (36 games), each other team not in division twice (18 games), each divisional opponent 3 or 4 times (28 games)-again, probably the most similar to the current format - Format 5: play each team in opposite conference once (18 games), each other team not in division twice (18 games), each divisional opponent 5 or 6 times (46 games)-similar to Format 2 but adjusted for division size - Format 6: play each team in opposite conference twice (36 games), each other team not in division 3 times plus 1 additional game against the team that finished in the same place the prior season (e.g. 4th place teams in the same conference play each other 4 times the next year rather than 3; 28 games), each divisional opponent 4 times (32 games)-this would add 14 games to the season There are probably lots of other options that could be considered, but at this stage it's unknown when and how the expansion might even happen in the first place. Still, it's fun to think about.

36 NHL teams? Why not just do 40?? please stop with expansion, all sports need to stop. Money can’t be everything it waters down the leagues immensely.

42 TEAM LEAGUE CONCEPT (*ten new teams): Pacific - Vancouver Canucks, Seattle Kraken, Portland*, San Jose Sharks, Los Angeles Kings, Anaheim, San Diego* Mountain - Edmonton Oilers, Calgary Flames, Winnipeg Jets, Utah*, Colorado Avalanche, Vegas Golden Knights, Arizona Coyotes Central - Minnesota Wild, Milwaukee*, Chicago Blackhawks, Kansas City*, St Louis Blues, Dallas Stars, Houston* Lakes - Detroit Red Wings, Hamilton*, Toronto Maple Leafs, Ottawa Senators, Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets, Pittsburgh Penguins Atlantic - Montreal Canadiens, Quebec*, Boston Bruins, New Jersey Devils, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia Flyers Southern - Nashville Predators, Washington Capitals, Carolina Hurricanes, Atlanta*, Louisiana*, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers

1:20 Shannon doing his best Mr. Krabs impression.

With some of the recent moves and expansions (Winnipeg, Minnesota, Atlanta Thrashers) and the Atlanta and Quebec City proposals, there's been a tendency to give franchises back to cities that lost them. (MLB has replaced nearly every recently moved team except Montreal, Seattle is at the top of everyone's NBA expansion list, and the NFL has replaced teams in Cleveland, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Los Angeles [two teams replacing two lost teams, sort of], and for a while St. Louis, so it's definitely a major sports trend.) Do you see a move, perhaps after this, to looking at WHA markets?

In 15 years we'll be talking about expanding to 48 teams. At some point they'll have to consider adding another cup to win.

The least popular of the big sport having the most professional teams is unbelievably stupid. The only moving that should be going on is sending a team back to Quebec City

2000 NHL teams! Coming to a Williamsburg near you

Could u make a video possibly outlining how a 4 team simultaneous expansion draft would work? For like all parties involved? Idk if you want to make that kind of theory video but I’d love to hear your thoughts on such a thing

Third time a charm for Atlanta?

Atlanta (and Phoenix) are the epitome of sunk cost fallacy. Atlanta had two tries and you can argue all you want about bad ownership, it's just not going to happen. Phoenix is just Gary Bettman being stubborn.

Hey Shannon, Atlanta has awhole lotta College football as well.

A+ Video.

Bring back the Whale 🐋

Move the Coyotes to Kansas City, then give the four expansion teams. Problem solved

David Thomson has the deepest pockets of any owner of a North American sports franchise

"May I present to you, Money" - I love this channel.