Tell me another Linux capable (with official Linux support) laptop that has a 16 : 10 screen, an ANSI keyboard, and an AMD Ryzen CPU and AMD Radeon GPU.

Plus it doesn’t sting to be an early adopter since you can just add the upgrades when they come out

@@cameronbosch1213 This is the only reason that is making me not immediately cancel my pre-order. As a Linux user... you kinda don't have another choice

@@chic_luke Same here. I use Linux, and after THREE 2023 Windows gaming laptops had dealbreaking flaws on Linux, I'm kind of screwed unless I want crappy old laptops with 16 : 9 screens, mediocre build quality, and less options. Not to mention they'll be even MORE expensive.

@@cameronbosch1213 oh my stars, your laptop that can SCRUB A 4K VIDEO AND DO REALTIME RAYTRACING has a little bit of flex in the display. it's traaaaaaaaaash! i don't know what qualifies as "mediocre build quality" these days, outside of tech bros who want their laptops to be fashion accessories. maybe get a padded bag and stop tossing around your $2000 electronics like gym clothes.

Well said, and I agree

This here, correct. Wanted to say the same but scrolled down before to see if it was mentioned already.

I thought most games do this on Linux, but honestly I wouldn't even be able to remember because like he said it doesn't last long.

Why can't it just compile on startup?

​@@desklamp4792 Vulkan games do compile shaders before launch, thats why some games have a popup saying 'compiling shaders' and you have to wait before you can play. It happens before first launch and doesn't happen afterwards. Its not a Linux thing, its a vulkan thing. DirectX compiles shaders on the fly which means u may experience some stuttering on the first launch.

Same here. Maybe Josh has bad eyes. 👀

May be its nice have higher resolution, but what I notice as code, is that in small screen the biggest problem is spacing between elements. when everything is danced together it can be overwhelming

The better your eyes the worse a low res panel will look because you'll be able to see individual pixels. So quite the opposite, you might be the ones with bad eyes @@cameronbosch1213

I think he's comparing with a MacBook. I do see individual pixels on a Windows laptop in comparison FWIW. That's on a 1200p screen too

KZfaqrs have this problem, they are always hungry for more

I would assume so!

Said the same thing when I dumped my short husky ideologically-ridged ex-gf!

And Framework absolutely nailed it all. Their smaller 13 inch lineup is also very upgradable while being as thin as most modern ultrabooks

Did it really have to look like shit tho?

yes, as long as people know what they are getting into

but if it costs double the price of a competing product, you could just buy 2 new laptops over the same product lifespan instead; so its a bit of a moot point currently

Interesting, we did update the bios

It's very possible they sent a unit from before they applied the fix

the units they sent to reviewers have MOST the issues fixed but not all of them, so maybe this is one of the ones that is fixed on the customers version but not the reviews one. We can hope!

In their blog post about reviews going live they mentioned many fixes coming, including electrical noise coming from main board or graphics module!

When it comes to the keyboard deck flex LTT pointed out they said they would ship any parts to people whose orders have already shipped if they could find a solution, and yeah a Gen 2 chassis probably won't cost us too much if they do eventually come up with one. Pretty happy about how transparent they are with their development and what they're willing to do for their customers.

You got it!

The parts are expensive with 13th gen motherboard (not even current) costing £1049 for the i7-1370P! I can buy a new 14-gen for that with OLED and 16GB of RAM! I think people have over expectations of this.

@@andyH_England On the other hand a 7840U board is below 700, which is a much better pick than 13th gen Intel.

Exactly. For me a laptop is a satellite to my primary workstation, so I prefer portability and lightness over size. I used to have a 16" Dell and it was a bear to transport. The build quality really couldn't hold up and it started failing within a few years. A 13" for me hit the right spot as an on-the-go device.

That's true for any ventured capitalist. Remember all the quality control issues with Teslas? They've com a long was as of late but there still struggling with that even today.

To be fair, it was the market that drove manufactures to soldered configurations in favor of thing and light.

@@krane15 , market or some specific company with over the top marketing budgets? I mean, other that “sexy commercial pic” why do you need a paper thin laptop? Laptop that weights around 1.4kg is going to be enough thin anyways. These guys had figured out how to make everything swappable in a 13.5 chassis maintaining the weight of a laptop around 1.3kg, so why wouldn’t other manufacturers do the same? Upsell, that is it.

nah, it was planned obscolence that "lead" them that way. surface pro for example ditched gluing all stuff together and the device is same size now. dont believe all the crap the corporations say @@krane15

it's notable that recent generations of amd chips REALLY want you to work in pairs to get full performance. it's not about the amount of ram nearly as much as it's about using both channels.

Upgrading from Gen 11 to Gen 13, which is not current, is £1050 for the motherboard alone without buying the latest wifi, RAM, and SSD! It really is poor value. But if modularity is more critical than value then the compromise is for you to make.

It's the repairs for me. With kids and school needs we'll end up with 4-5 laptops in our house. No more scrolling eBay and doing janky repairs because something stopped working or was broken.

@@andyH_England I hope Framework will get better quote from hardware manufacturers one they get bigger, which would translate into price reduction. At least the motherboard is made to be reusable. That could count as some cost recouped for many.

@@tuanld91 If you upgrade every three years, then who will be willing to pay for a secondhand proprietary motherboard that is three years or more old? Those that have a Framework will already have an aged device. My main issue is that only a tiny niche group is willing to pay these prices for upgradeability. Once Framework has exhausted them, it will have diminishing sales returns. The business model where fans buy one chassis for life seems risky and has a short half-life to survive in an ultra-competitive market.

@@andyH_England I think it makes more sense in the larger form factors. The framework 16 is actually really good for what it is, and being able to upgrade graphics and having a large modular input deck are big selling points alone. Not to mention the swappable ports or easy to upgrade storage/memory/wifi. And easy availability for new batteries, which are also easy to replace.

The problem is that many of those upgradable laptops from major OEMs are not upgradable that much anymore. I mean, look at Dell. Yikes! 😬

@@cameronbosch1213 Dell is its own awful and most definitely not what I was referring too - lol. I'm talking about Thinkpads, Thinkbooks (very much so), HP Elitebooks (very very repairable), System 76, etc. I believe Linus Tech Tips even did a video on the high reparability of the HP Elitebook singings its praises in terms of quality and high reparability.

Glad we could deliver :) This review was seriously a bit nuts. We spent so many hours on it!

They supposedly tried that and never brought it to market, but there’s a guy on the forum who is trying to bring it to market himself. Framework even sent him their samples, which is honestly amazing.

I think there are several that can be addressed like the main board coil whine noise

According to the Framework emails I have, they didn’t want to lock themselves because it’s no the same unfinished software than unfinished hardware, they in fact delay the laptop two times due issues of that level. So knowing that and their track record I don’t see why they can’t fix most of those things over the years. A harder mid plate to increase keyboard stability, in the 13 inch they end up releasing (even as a upgrade kit for the Intel 12th gen) a top cover replacement to reinforce the lid. They can release better speakers and webcam in the future as well as better displays that use more real state if they want (fingers cross for a glossy touchscreen high refresh rate, they have the pins to support touchscreens). And stronger CPUs and GPUs, I’m going to buy one, but to me the current selection of CPU + GPU was kind of meh, but they don’t have the capacity to release a ton of options from the start, that’s a lot of money + plus they had help of an AMD partnership, so they probably tried to point a middle point that is enough for most people, but they did the groundwork to enable for example a 16 core future ryzen with a 5090 laptop GPU and/or an equivalent AMD GPU, they have the headroom, the most laptops GPU can consume currently is 150W (strongest 4090 laptop) their current 7700S uses 100W, probably they can add 150W options for the users that they really want it at the expense of using the then available 240W USB-C chargers. So I would say they managed to accomplish it good enough to have a brilliant future that probably could afford from the start

I'm not optimistic about 2024 laptops. I'd try to get one second hand.

Lenovo, they have many models tested with Linux and if you opt with preinstalled Suse or Ubuntu, you will even have it supported for Linux use. SO you wont have any issues with trackpad drivers etc And you will get the best keyboard on the laptop market. Lenovo is more or less a nobrainer for Linux users. If you can afford it, and want a centered keyboard, I would recommend ThinkPad Z16 Gen 2, mostly because of battery life. The intel based ones have quite bad battery life.

@@incognito7843 Z16 has too few ports and a worse touchpad than other ThinkPads. Try again.

yes

Huh, looking at LTT's review and what they've sent people in Batch 1 compared to reviewers makes me think you could have gotten a potential defective unit. I'll compare the results to my Batch 1 model when I get mine. Thanks for responding!

@@cameronbosch1213 Thank you for being a beta-tester for the rest of us! lol

Although 64 GB RAM is the largest configuration currently available from Framework, it should be possible to build a 96 GB one using 2 x 48 GB DDR5. People have successfully put that in the AMD Framework 13, and the 16 has essentially the same processor. (The 7940HS is the same chip as the 7840U, except with higher power limits so it can run faster.) Even more RAM will be possible in the future.

I agree

Or even just better CPUs in terms of Zen 5.

There's not much they can do because AMD basically has no more options in the S series atm.

What about Thinkpad, system 76, or HP Elitebooks? You can run Linux natively. I run Fedora on my Thinkpad T14s Gen 3 AMD with no issues. Some devs on my team run Linux on Dell XPS

In the end, all of those are pretty lackluster compared to Mac quality of life. Don't get me wrong, the Framework and others are upgradable and all. But when I held and tried the framework physically in real life, it was shittiest, cheapest feeling, poorly built machine.@@meal_team_six

@@meal_team_six There's no mention of Linux support neither on Thinkpad or HP or dell websites, when I open their respective websites they advertise only Windows 11 pro support. Elitebooks was my initial choice as I can buy it right now but it's a still windows laptop that happens to be compatible with linux. system 76 - not available in any store in my country, also can't be shipped there, so it's the same problem as with Framework.

I use Dell XPS with Ubuntu, no issues. Same with HP Elitebooks in my company (though they can spin the fans quite a bit).

​@meal_team_six You can, but you'll get ZERO help. And the XPS 13 developer edition is probably dead, given it's already a poor choice with Windows.

That would be perfect if it could dock with an external GPU. Speaking of DisplayPort, its up to DP 2.1, but no hardware manufacture supports that even after 3 years. The majority of laptop (as well as other hardware) are still using DP 1.4 for a decade ago.

Framework isn't going anywhere. Heck, the Linux community seems to really like what they're doing. So if things go south with Microsoft, then they could partner with System76 or some Linux distro and basically finally have competitive Linux first offerings.

Are you an investor or something? Why are you everywhere and like being so aggressive. I don't care that you are a Linux user. I hope others in your community aren't like you. Also you have proof that all of the Linux community likes what they are doing? Also I am a normie who uses windows and I don't care about Linux as of now. I do however care about the other stuff I mentioned

@@Karthig1987 I'm not an investor. I'm just an advocate for people being able to repair their own devices and not be stuck because of greedy companies like Microsoft & Apple.

Yep its difficult. The new HP Spectre 14 for 2024 is pretty good with heat and fan noise. But haven't tried it with Linux, only Windows. Video out next week. Thanks for the nice comment

Except this isn't a final unit. Not very helpful of a review.

I don't think they will come soon

Id suggest checking after preorders get their framework said the review units have flaws they've fixed since

Good luck cooling down a high end GPU with their fans position

@@MrEdmie The cooling is in the expansion bay module. A module for a higher end GPU could also have a better cooler.

If you look on the UK website you cannot upgrade the RAM anymore, so you have to buy 16GB, and then buy larger modules and go to the hassle of reselling the 16GB to avoid e-waste!

Then you should buy it for sure. Everyone's needs are a bit different

That's the AMD experience for ya