great comment! i was also inclined to play salzedo style because i‘ve been watching tons of videos by american harpist but my teacher convinced me that it is a total waste of energy and you loose time. it‘s a question of aethetics and to anyone interested in that topic i can recommend the thesis „effective harp pedagogy“ - great comparison between the harp school (salzedo, french and russian) and you learn how they developed. salzedo is especially interesting here because it was all about how it looked and not so much about great technique really. my teacher said you had to be a really excellent harp player to pull it off - otherwise it’s just uncomfortable and pointless.

@@kuttelei Super interesting, thanks!

Totally agree!

One of my students calls that flapping arms technique “wafting cobwebs”. I think it’s a perfect description.

@@MarkHarmer 😂😂😂

You're welcome! Let me know how it goes with the Russian scale!

Russian "technique" is just a 19th century technique that never improved. Their repertoire is extremely limited, they overpull everything, and have very poor understanding of any music that isn't 19th-century Russian. Circling thumb before placing it is totally unnecessary.

Thank you for all the compliments! I'm glad you find the videos useful. Have you ever heard of Italian harpist Anna Loro? She has the biggest hands and longest fingers ever, and she plays wonderfully...! x

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 thank you I'll check her out! Now..what about the Russian downward scale? How does that differ? I now know the way up is different.....but down?....

@@jimbuxton2187 It doesn't differ, probably only with the timing of placing the thumb which is more structured...

Hope you find it useful! Let me know how it's going!

I didn't know that Grandjany taught both technique, very interesting, thanks for writing it! Yes, we cannot generalize, in fact I put in "quotation marks" the words "french" and "russian". I've been in Moscow twice and I've heard a lot of russian harpists, also during masterclasses around the world. From my experience they have the tendency to play too fast. I was with Sasha in Zurich for our harp studies. He improved the phrasing a lot during these years.

Salzedo was equally French, as Grandjany, he studied with Hasselmans. He was not a great technician and denied having any "method." He did not pass on any specific technique to his students or many exercises. Some of his students imitated his double-jointed fingers but it was not a method. His students learned a lot of sight-reading and most of them played Broadway shows and free-lanced in general. Mostly, it was Salzedo students who had the highest-level classical work.

Thank you, I'm glad you like them!

Hi Mateu, I'm sorry I prefer not to point out at collegues technique. As a very general rule, you can analyse harpists who come from the geografic area that I mention for each kind of technique.

Awesome, I'm so happy for that. Yes, knowledge is power.

From what I saw (e.g. Elizabeth Hainen) the mouvements of the arms look very artificial. Is there an explanation why they have to be always parallel to the ground? Very curious about it, because I cannot think of many advantages about it😐

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 rather than flexing from the wrist, the elbow is used like a hinge, and tension is released in a different manner. Salzedo harpists rarely suffer from hand aches or injuries. Unfortunately if the method is taught incorrectly it can look very forced and be uncomfortable. When done correctly like Alice Giles or Yolanda Kondonassis or Mary Bircher, it results in good balance of aesthetics, round robust tone with the hands closing completely into the palms and injury free playing. The harmonics style is also very special (see poem of the little stars) I am not a professional like you, so I feel unqualified to tell you these things: Saul Davis Zlatkovski is the current expert academic of the Salzedo school and he will gladly tell you of the advantages and disadvantages of this method. I love you Chiara! Your videos makes me want to become a better and more rounded harpists with the best of all technique schools!

@@nervousharpist Thanks for all these information! I had a look at Mr. Saul Davis Zlatkovski's and Alice Giles position. They don't seem to keep the elbow extremely high- as I've seen in other players, and I've always wondered: how's the back? (more than a hand injury, I would think of the back being quite stiff!). What puzzles me though in their playing is this sharp mouvement upwards which happens very often, e.g. at the end of a phrase. I think it gives a weird accent which doesn't help if you want to play legato (!). But maybe I should have a lesson with Mr. Zlatkovski's to understand this technique better. About the harmonics, I know Salzed uses a different notation than usual and he played with the 5th on the strings etc., but I'm not sure either if they actually sound better...I franky admit that I'm skeptical!😶

Hainen is NOT a "Salzedo" harpist. She studied with Susann McDonald. The essence of Salzedo method is its naturalness. Look at Heidi Lehwalder's playing. @@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470

Salzedo did not use his 5th finger! Raising is to help project the soundwaves. Not raising at all blocks them and causes stiffness. If there is an accent, it is because it is musically appropriate. @@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470

Let me know how it goes! It's super good for speed!

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 I haven't got used to it yet, so I still have to think when I want to use this technique. But when I do, it helps with my speed and ease on ascending scales. I should practice it more over the summer until it comes to me more naturally. I should also use it more when playing actual pieces, not just when practicing scales.

@@mn3702 Yes, try to incorporate in your pieces, but still practice it a lot on your technique training routine. It'll come more naturally after a while, but it'll take years to automatize it. Be patient and enjoy the process😄

@@mn3702 wow, awesome! I'm very happy for you! Well done!!!!

Cool! 😂💥🎼👍

You're welcome! Glad you like it!

You'll love it!

Hi Richard, I totally agree with you, in fact this is just a brief introduction video, I put "in brackets" the word *french* and *russian* just because they're so many variations about these words. I spoke only about the 2 biggest technical movements that I find they're very different. As for the rest....we could do a million of videos about it and we still wouldn't be finished with the topic!

Lorenzini had the best tone quality of any French harpist I have ever heard, which means she plays like a student of Lucile Lawrence, but I have not heard any pupil of hers match her tone color.

Great, glad you like it!

😀😀how is it going? ...never watch videos before going to bed!🤨😉

Haha I'm glad you find it interesting!

You'll get there! You can place 432 earlier in the French technique as well. It really helps. I do 4,3 SKIP214321. It's just a matter of getting used to it...

A lot of us have one teacher that gets no kiss! 🤣

...no comment! I had 4 teachers overall, 2 of them destroyed me!🤦‍♀️😑😑

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 so glad I'm not the only one. My first teacher (the one that never tuned her harps) taught me the wrong technique (or rather no technique at all, she never noticed my mistakes or bad habits - now i have to learn everything from scratch). no kiss for her, either!!! (I will complain about her overall terribleness another time) lol

@@kuttelei 😱😱😱😱😱😱

Thanks!

Thanks for sharing your experience! I only use the power of the fingers to get the sound, I never go too far away from the harp. I saw harpists using Salzedo and to me it seems so uncomfortable that I would be distracted from what I'm playing! (If I ever could play with such opened arms). I also find it weird that the right arm doesn't touch the soundboard. To me, it's a great help.

The problem with mixing teachings is that you get a mixed result. Salzedo is not just about how you play, but as you say, also your tone quality, and what you play, and how you perform it. Mixing never produces a better result. I would always rather see a pure "Grandjany" or "Salzedo" harpist than someone with a muddled approach. The funny thing is how universal raising has become, except only with the left hand and arm for so many people, whose right arms are still pasted to the harp and full of stiffness and limited sound. In the 1980s and earlier, you could not even hear the left hand play except with Salzedo players. Without admitting it, many teachers have "borrowed" from Salzedo teaching, such as closing the fingers quickly and completely all the time. But their placing is still usually messy and noisy, buzzy. Playing is really at a much lower level now overall, because no one has taken the time to learn to be a musician. They just play the strings, and play as fast as possible. Competitions are partly to blame for that.

You would not at all with proper instruction. There's no way touching the sounding board helps you. It's a crutch, a habit. You cannot move as freely, and your sound is constricted. Your audience will hear how you move. Like any computer, you get a result from what you put into it.@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470

Hi Lara, yes I will do it. Anyway, it's correct. You play 4th, 3rd and then you place these 2 fingers under the 2nd and 1st. It does become easier with practice, don't worry!

No, no injuries, as long as you relax your thumb after playing (I do it with "resting" on the knuckle of the 2nd finger or else through the "little circle").

Our life is a learning path!

Prego!

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 so interesting! I ve tried to play the scale the Russian way but it feels so uncomfy! I got looong fingers and a basis in HRenie,then Grossi + some Salzedo elbow tips (chest opener). I m not a professional i play for pleasure.when I listen to very old records I wonder always if we are able to understand their techniques properly.. life today and body posture especially is so so different from 70y ago and more.. grazie again for ur sharing (o dimenticato molto il mio Italiano..) 🙏🏼💓

@@fantasticfoodandfast continua a suonare con piacere e gioia!😀

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 💓💓💓

I've seen harpists with much smaller hands even than mine which are correctly not big at all, and they play wonderfully! And yes, not using the pinky finger is a relief, it's just an obnoxious finger...😉

Small hands excell on the Harp! You can fit much better at the top of the harp without having to change your hand angle! Big chords will be challenging but scales and passage work will be very easy for you...!

@@jimbuxton2187 True, although for big chords is really a struggle...Anyway, I've seen harpists with big hands being fantastic, they can put their hand compact for scales and passages and they make absolutely no effort for big chords. I need to stretch my fingers regularly in order to play them!

Very interesting about your mum, lucky to get lessons with Laskine! I don't know Kajetan Attl, I checked out Emily Granger, she's very good although she could muffle a bit more. Who's the harpist of the Czech Philarminic? Thanks for this interesting names!

Will get you the name for the check to harmonic heart player but she's really good it's on my Facebook post you'd have to scroll down a ways though but there's a nice 10 minute concert that she does Private concert. PS I'm voice texting at work. Have a good one.

Jana Bouskova, is the harpist with the Czech Philharmonic.. The Czech Phil.. is just a great orchestra..(top notch..👍). Pianist Yuja Wang (sp?), just completed a season with them last year.. (she is amazing..).. By the way, the reason you had likely not heard of Mr. Attl, (my uncle and my mother's teacher), is that he likely retired from San Francisco in the 1940's or early 1950's.. Uncle Stanley (Chalouopka), became 1st harpist in Los Angeles in the early 1940's ('42 I believe)...

@@richardgleichmann7671 Ah yes Jana Bouskova is very well known, I've never had the pleasure to listen to her live, just in some recordings. From what I've heard, she plays just a bit too fast for my taste. You seem to be surrounded by a family of great harpists!

...si vede che suonavi già bene e l'arpista russa non riteneva necessario "correggerti!"😊 Sì il pollice a cerchio proprio non mi va giù, e comunque la tecnica Grossi è ottima...fra l'altro è francese, visto che Maria Grossi era studentessa di Luigi Maurizio Tedeschi che a sua volta era studente di Godefroid a Parigi...e il cerchio (francese e italiano) si chiude!

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 bene, ora so grazie a te che ho studiato con la tecnica francese :-D Ne approfitto per dirti che trovo super stimolante il tuo canale, sei bravissima!

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 gliel'ho chiesto e mi ha detto che l'aveva notato subito e che sì, in effetti "non è molto corretto secondo la nostra pratica", ma non ha ritenuto valesse la pena farmelo notare dal momento che ero già formata e che ci stavamo concentrando sulla preparazione per un matrimonio

@@purplestringsmariamichelac3391 ...Puoi sempre lavorarci se lo ritieni utile! A me ha aiutato ENORMEMENTE per la velocità ed uguaglianza del suono. Però non è effettivamente indispensabile, si può suonare molto bene anche senza...

Good question! Quite easy: just place the thumb practically at the same time as your 3rd finger is playing. I hope it's clear!

@@chiarapedrazzettiarpatelie6470 What if the scale is only one octave? 4(Do) 3(Re) (cross) 2 (Mi) 1 (Fa) (cross) 4(So) 3(La) 2(Ti) ?? 1(Do) ??? 2341234. Do you finish plucking La, then pluck ti while placing 3+4 back down? Or do you place 234 back down at the same time you pluck 1 at the top of the scale?

​@@morgantraynor2444 kzfaq.infoCXQJLngiqc8?feature=share I made a short to explain better!

No, I wouldn't say so! 😸

cotton candy!😂😂