I dated a girl with BPD and I new nothing about it prior, let me just say emotional roller coaster was an understatement and there was a major crossover with covert narcissistic disorder, when I finally realised this and walked away fortunately after only 4 months ,I was able to put it in perspective and move on with some clarity (they also seem to be attracted to emotionally stable and honest individuals who have their life together as a side note)

My ex, for years, followed a pattern. Breaking up, sleeping with other men, coming close and chasing me down as "friend", having sex with me, and then accusing me of taking advantage of her. This repeated for 6 years, until I got tired of it and blocked her everywhere and started ignoring her, since she was always angry, promiscuous and prone to make false allegations. She made my life hell because of it, defamed me, attacked my mother, made a scene at my work... Generated all kinds of problems. I am traumatized, I am literally afraid of people with borderline disorder, they are very dangerous and very hard to get rid of in your life, and if you keep them in your life they are very abusive. Everything said in the video is reasonable, it doesn't mean every borderline person will have this kind of behavior, but it's a risk.

FWB: Using each other for sex until one of you meets someone you’re interested in.

Sometimes these 'close platonic friendships' can cause harm to a marriage/relationship because of possible 'fantasy based idealisation' creating triangulation issues.

I had an incredibly difficult time being friends or friends with benefits with those of the opposite sex when I was younger and my BPD was undiagnosed. However, it became much easier after I was diagnosed and started DBT therapy. Actually my now husband and I began as friends with benefits about 6 months into DBT therapy. It worked for several reasons- we were both honest about our expectations- he was at college and didn't want a relationship, I needed to not be in a relationship (for once) but was happy to have the friendship and physical intimacy. After about a year, when I started to develop strong feelings for him I told him I needed to take a step back for my mental health and just be friends. It stayed that way for a while and then eventually when he graduated we both decided we wanted to be together. Now we've been married for 8 years and together for over a decade. I agree that in general it's not healthy for those with BPD though. I just happened to be incredibly lucky in terms of the timing of that relationship happening. At a different time (or with a different partner) it could have (and likely would have) gone horribly wrong.

I recently had a first FWB relationship and it felt more healthy than any of my previous romantic relationships. We both communicated well, maintained intimacy, I wasn’t obsessed with wanting a relationship after encounters as is normal for me, and when they said they wanted to pursue a relationship with someone else I wasn’t devastated because we had communicated that a relationship between ourselves wasn’t on the table, it was a satisfying experience.

Maintaining healthy attachment and relationship boundaries already is challenging for individuals with BPD. In addition to experiencing deep emotional levels, it would seem that a “friends with benefits” relationship would be extremely difficult if not painful for the individual with BPD.

In Friends with benefits one person is desperately wishing that it will become more.

They tell you they want friends with benefits and then slowly they try to guilt you into being with them then blow up.

Intimacy will irreparably change the dynamics of the friendship. These friends w benefits situations rarely if ever work out. The friendship is more important and long lasting, the friendship is the more needed relationship, the intimacy (short lived) isn’t as important to a healthy life. Maybe this isn’t always the case, but I think it’s generally true.

I agree 100% with the points you both raised... BPD diagnosis or not. I have had this conversation with people repeatedly since I was a teenager in the 90s. I feel like self-deception is the worst form of deception and "friends with benefits" sets people/relationships up for failure from the start. I feel most people typically go along with these arrangements either due to lonliness/co-dependancy or selfishness/greed, (opposite sides of the same coin). P.S. - I have one very close, first-degree relative with an official long-standing BPD diagnosis and I cannot imagine that individual successfully engaging in a FWB "relationship." I don't think these types of "relationships" are healthy for ANYBODY. I'm not a mental health professional and I know it's not a very scientific way of viewing things, but the exchange of energy via sexual intercourse is real and likely has an even greater impact on those who are in a vulnerable state due to mental health "issues," whether it's a personality disorder, mood disorder, etc.

In my experience, once the feelings have been communicated the only options should be to date or to cut all contact. Otherwise the dynamic changes and it becomes awkward. It then becomes an unrequited love friendship and the person with feelings is probably just holding onto false hope that their friend will change their mind one day and decide to date them. Also those who become your friend with the ulterior motive to get into a relationship with you without communicating it are not true friends anyway, it's a friendship based on lies.

Proceed with caution! People can get hurt, proper boundaries must be maintained.

This video should have a BILLION views.

I massively disagree on the idea that male/female friendships can't work. There have to be solid boundaries. That is difficult for those with BPD, but not impossible. There also has to be a lot of open communication, where both sides can question what's going on if it seems the boundaries are being crossed. What's difficult is when one flirts for attention, or leads the other on, or flirts but claims innocence or naivety. But that's part of the boundary that can't be crossed.

Friends with Benefits is crazy crazy!!! Having intimacy with someone is more than just the sex!! People want and need to feel loved and cared for not used!!! Emotions will get involved no matter who it is!!! You don't have to have a Disorder, just be human!!!!!

It is actually NOT a problem to be friends when you're in a committed relationship as long as you prioritize the order of importance of each relationship correctly, my Wife IS actually my bestfriend, any other friendship ranks lower. If my Wife isn't comfortable with one of my female friends, I discontinue the lower status friendship, it's just that simple. It is really nice to have that female point of view that can come from a true female friend but the Wife and Family always comes first.

“Friends with benefits” is just a imature defense mechanism, 2 imature people trying to dissociate sex and feelings, trying to rationally not getting involved, trying to keep a narcisic omnipotence.

In theory, women and men can be just friends - in practice, some women find that every single male friend is planning on pushing it to an intimate relationship at some point, and get angry and frustrated when it doesn't go the way they want - even when the woman is clear it is "just friends" (with no benefits).

I stopped doing FWB about 6 years ago as in all of my experience someone always ended up getting hurt, and that someone was usually me. I felt completely used and “not good enough,” when my friend met someone else as he obviously was ready to have a relationship- but just not with me.

I very much appreciate your views on this complex topic. I have been perplexed for years about the naivete of most people regarding this.

Interesting topic :) it seems that FWB type of rship is a mean way to control someone with abandonment anxiety. I dont like that concept. There are very clear distinctions between friendship and romantic rships. They can not be confused. Or mixed up. Flirting with friends is a huge disrespect of those boundaries. Playing games, kidding, teasing, is all probing for attention without commitment, and feels like poison to the rest of the involved. A friend is a friend, and a lover ia a lover. When boundaries between the two get blurred, people get hurt. It's all common sense.

I've had a few girls over the years that were friends with benefits and I'm still friends (no longer with benefits) with them. 2 of them are married now. The thing about those relationships though is that the situation was talked about before anything happened that there were no expectations. You have to be on the same page. The problem is when one of the pair sees it as FWBs and the other thinks it is a full fledged romance. That is not cool and quite cruel.

Thank you Shehrina for sharing your experiences, ideas and feelings. This is very important for so many of us, for SO many reasons.

Kudos to both therapist and patient! This discussion has been immensely helpful! Thank you both very much"

I don’t think it’s a borderline thing. It’s a human thing to feel uncomfortable with your significant other having an active friendship with someone of the opposite sex.

BPD. Just heard about this a few months ago. Thank you both for this production. Very enlightening. Have a nice day/night.

Thank you (again)! Good discussion. Dovetails with my experience and my understanding of BPD. Thank you for discussing broader characteristics like extroversion and jealousy in the context of BPD that don't appear in the DSM but are clearly present.

Wow, what a surprising and extremely important conversation, thank you! x

Great conversation! 👌Thank you! 😊

Some of the best content on KZfaq!

S's hair is on fleek!🤗🤗🤗 always so happy to see you two !😘

You two are great. Excellent topic! Very relevant for many people.

Thankyou Dr Grande and recovery mum .

I'm so glad I found this video! I recently just had an atrocious ending to a situation with someone. I stayed involved so long because I sincerely thought he had BPD or something similar. I realized a few days ago he was just a jerk who took advantage of my kindness and patience. I got played because I tried to be understanding of someone's private struggle. We are now in an agreed separation, even though we were never actually together. My own issues were exacerbated and now I have to find emotional stability after being discarded by someone I should not have allowed myself to fall in love with. Even though the person I fell in love with didn't actually exist, I thought he did and was just too afraid to show himself. It was all a lie. My question is: How can people differentiate jerks from those who are actually ill and in need of help?

Very good indeed...many thanks

Great discussion. Such an interesting breakdown of these ideas.

I thought of a question during the video and then promptly forgot it. Excellent content anyway, RecoveryMum and Dr. Grande.

My female friend would call me every now and again to go for a drink. She would tell me about her dating life. We shared the drinks bill. Only a couple of times met for lunch. After she had told me one time about some date or other she had been on, she asked me about my love life. I said that I wasn't looking for a relationship with anyone at that time, and that the ideal would be a woman who just wanted casual sex. She said that yes, there are woman out there who know what they want, and also just want casual sex. I walked to my tram, which was 200m past her place. For the first and only time, she said "wanna come in for a drink ?". And we shagged. In the morning, I left and all was cool. We met again for drinks, and didn't mention the hook up, and weren't intimate. We had agreed to go for a day's shopping in a neighbouring city. It was a Bank Holiday Wednesday in our city, but not in the other city. So everything was organised. I phoned her about train tickets a few days beforehand. No response. Then I texted her about tickets. "Kinda busy in work, I'll let you know tomorrow". The next day, 9pm came and went and still no message. So the next day ( the day before our day off ) I texted her and said what time do you want to take the train in the morning. At 3pm she texted me that she "just wasn't in the mood for shopping". No apology. No phone call. I knew what was happening. She was going on a date that evening, and was blowing off our already agreed upon trip. She just was being sneaky about it. Instead of telling me straight out and asking if I minded if she let me down, she ignored my calls and messages until the last minute. So I just replied "Well, enjoy your quiet night in". This let her know that I knew she was going out. And then I never heard from her again, further proving to me that she had been caught lying to me about why she didn't want to go. And anybody that lies to you and suits themselves, is not your friend. 2 years later, at 2am, I get a text saying "Did you even love me ?". I blocked her number and haven't laid eyes on her since ( 6 years ago ). I couldn't have cared less if she was on a date or not. She was not for me, and we'd hooked up only one time. But for a friend to give me the run around to selfishly suit herself ? Well, that's no friend. And the fact that she never contacted me after bailing on the trip tells me she knew she had done wrong. If I passed her in the street now I say hello if she did, and keep walking.

I have male friends, but learned the hard way about boundaries. My husband has female friends, but he has learned about boundaries as well.

I feel the traits of BPD (wanting to be wanted, and accepted) create additional issues with opposite sex friendships. My ex-wife would make friends with male work colleagues and the boundaries were crossed frequently. All of her male friends were having affairs with married women, and her married female friends were having affairs. There seemed to be a need to create the possibility of using sex to gain admiration, connection and friendship. Although I would argue the validity of the friendships based on the possibility of sexual encounters. My ex-wife also made friends with over a dozen males on snap chat. These friendships eventually turned sexual. I hold the view this reflects the concerns I had with the physical friendships she had formed at her work places. After I decided to leave the marriage, she was diognosed with BPD. I feel that men and women cannot be friends, as there is always going.t9 be underlying thoughts of sexuality. This would be same for two homosexual men, or women, wherever there is an attraction. Adding the traits associated with BPD (and the statistics that show around 45% of males with BPD females are anti social), there is always going to be the absence of boundaries/underlying motives.

Is inappropriate hypersexuality and the preference of sexual intimacy over emotional intimacy more prevalent in borderlines? What if the person avoids attachment but opts for sex for fear of getting hurt?

😊🤗❤️ Love you both!! Thank you so much! I diagnosed with BPD and GAD, I never had male friends, I think I rejected them from my instinct...like I’m not able to, male friends fell in love with me, so I broke their heart unfortunately...and for me, there has to be a commitment, there is no way, I just have ongoing sexual relationship with someone and no commitment, I call them cowards, like most of society these days, but actually now that I know I can destroy myself or others, I’m being that coward myself...like no love, nobody around me, that’s when I’m safe emotionally...I’m completely jealous so my partner cannot have ongoing friendship if he wants to commit to me, I guess I’m very ugly, but I want what I give, I don’t have male friends, so why should I put up with female friends if he doesn’t have to put up with male friends...again!!! Love You Both!

Great format Doc,a bit more personal and free flowing.Your guest works well with you in the exchanges, and gives some female perspective that is always interesting.A good addition to your channel.

I got diagnosed BPD a few weeks ago. However I have severe issues with physical intimacy. I don't have a desire to connect sexually to another person... And identify as asexual. However I do relate so much to the aspect of a growing friendship that turns into wanting to be with them all the time. Someone just has to be nice everyday and text me... And yeah, I will cling onto you. And oh, if this person then talks about other friendships. BAM, anxiety... I hope they're not going to abandon me for them!!! But I am not going to say or do anything... I 'll just sit in fear all the time in this "relationship". When I would hear they have a partner themselves I would feel sooooo devastated... What is not good enough about me? What is it then what we had...? I wanted to be with you, couldn't you see? We were texting each other everyday for hours! I'm worthless... I should not exist... Ectt... Can I hold friendships? No. I'm lonely as fuck. And it hurts. So anyone that confides a little bit of their time in me... I'll love deeply. This disorder is hell. Hell to be alone, but relatively stable. Even worse to be with someone.

I have Bpd and male friends, it can happen that some kind of romantic feelings occur because you spend time with that person and at the end friends are people you love, in another way but it is well possible that a friendship can turn into a romantic relationship. But it doesn't occur always. Many people just want to have good friends regardless of the gender. I have male friends for instance that aren't attracted to me, and it is the same on my part. We couldn't imagine being partners because we are friends and being otherwise would be weird. And we all help each other with loving problems and give advice. At leat this is really common with the people I hang out with and I think many young people tend to to the same (not all, I know) but if you think women and men cannot be friends there is a chance that you are missing on great friends

Love to see more of these!

this video was so helpful, i've been dealing with a similar situation lately and could not put into words why this arrangement felt so icky

Times are tough all over. Two can live as cheap as one. It prevents homelessness.

Romantic love is an illusion created to make us "feel" something that we should have within ourselves but rarely do. Being cheated, abandoned, and hurt by so many women has left me not wanting to explore this illusion again. the most painful lesson is that romantic love, and chivalry is dead. Society as a whole has become a cess pool of emotionless drones whereby narcissism is encouraged and promoted in the most unhealthy way.

Frankly, I think that these interviews you did w "RecoveryMum" are the best you have ever done. The clinical features become real and her ability to demonstrate the emotional impact of what you are describing is very effective. I don't know what happened, but please try to continue this format in the future. יוי

My Cluster B/BPD/Sociopathic Ex Wife would covertly sleep with almost every man that she engaged with (except those Men that she suspected might have said NO to her, because of the guys loyalty to me). Other than this, I do not believe that there was any other defining line. This appeared to be a form of addiction, a sort of extreme sexualisation that had been confused with her Narcissistic need to avoid perceived abandonment. She would have sex with builders doing work for me, and even align herself to these strangers, and conspire with them to defraud me. All the while, she was playing the loyal Wife. Covert Narcissistic Abuse is the freakiest show on Earth.

I guess you are right and I've been having the same thougts about this, even thou it hurts a bit to know. It's one thing to understand this yourself, but a totally different thing to get your partner to admit and understand it.

I don’t have time to watch this whole video right now, but I’d like to comment on this as it’s something I’ve run into a lot recently. I’m diagnosed NPD not BPD but I definitely have a good amount of borderline especially when it comes to relationships, my issue is friend with benefits, I can’t differentiate that from a regular relationship. When I feel like things are fizzling out if I’m not into it I tend to just disappear, if I’m still into it but think she isn’t or worse yet she is seeing someone else which is fine with that type of arrangement but the problem is when I think they like the other person more than me. I go total psycho, try to win them over at all costs even without really thinking about what I’m even trying to do and I usually end up scaring the shit out of them.

Well defined.

Everyone loves doctor grande

Thank you RecoveryMum and Dr. Grande. I always enjoy watching you both together and I learn each time something new. The year 2019 is almost just 14 days old and you have already been uploading 10 new videos doc!! That's so great. Thank you for all your time and energy you put into this. I'm sure your subscribers appreciate it a lot. Just keep them coming Dr. Grande, like a speedy Gonsalez 😂😁😂

this is good!

These are good…_more discussion videos. It’s cool to see you interact with folks

I agree that BPD and FWB don't mix. Great video.

Could you define intimacy and talk about how healthy intimacy can be achieved? For anyone - not just people with bpd

All of my best friends have been guys. We confided in each other about very intimate things; we joked sexually and played physically, but we never crossed that line (I was certain that doing so would ruin the awesome friendship). For the duration of these friendships both he & I were involved with spouse/partner (they never seemed to be jealous of, or object to, the close friendship).

The need to merger with the other person to feel whole. A need to be needed.

I'm a man and I have a friendship with two women and it's superficial but that's a good thing. We chat, eat food together and share things that we've baked. It's all I want. I have no need for intimacy from them, emotional or otherwise.

So you assume bisexual people can't have any real friendships at all?! Not trying to "start a fight" here or anything, but I'm not really on board with what you said about men an women not being able to just be friends.

thank you!

Emotional affairs are the worst. I can handle sexual cheating but I spent a long time in a relationship with someone but I cheated emotionally and it was powerful and more fulfilling than my boyfriend at the time. I grew by understanding that if I can feel a certain kind of way about someone else, I am not in the right relationship.

Excellent video, very interesting topic. I can be friends with the opposite sex (and as it turns out, friends w/benefits too, hm..) buuut....the other party inevitably gets a "crush" or gets upset by my other social, or even work, relationships. Sadly, I feel as though I need to push people away just so they don't hurt their own feelings. Over time I've grown fond of simply being alone. People are a lot of work.

PS congrats on 1 million!

I think that all of these situations are common to all mankind, regardless of adding the element of BPD. Maybe BPD persons are more open about these painful things.

I have bpd and actually the fwb situations works great for me. I have no feelings of love for anyone, so these as needed situations are perfect for me

I can relate with a lot of the stuff that Recovery Mum was saying.

I don't think it can work either. I entered a FWB situation 2 and a half years ago with this guy, and since then we've been to hell and back with each other. I'm the one with BPD and I am in love with him. He says he doesn't believe in love, and even threatens to leave me again if I bring up my feelings for him. However, he lets me cuddle up to him while he's on his phone, which I see as a kindness on his part since he's totally against affection. Plus, he's seen me at my worst (which is really bad) and yet, he's stuck by me for 2 and a half years. So, I don't know what to make of it... Like Dr. Grande said, it feels like we're in a relationship but he's trying to surgically extract the affection... or maybe he's just not willing to commit. Who knows, but it's literally on my mind all day every day. This guy is my whole world. :(

I wish i had known i had BPD and watched this 3.5 years ago before i got onto the train that was going to completely derail my life. This hurts so bad 😭

I think one can fall in love with almost anyone. What separates us from other critters is our ability to exercise our intellect and our will.

This is fantastic very insightful I think it also applies to lesbian bisexual and gay people to

I think you both have covered the two questions well. My personal experience can so agree: doesn't work well at all!!!

Interesting video. I agree that FWB relationships usually end in disaster. However, platonic friendships with males have been an ongoing part of my life for decades. I work in a male dominated industry and over the years have become great friends with a few co-workers and other males. My husband knows and socializes with them, but the true friendship exists between the two of us. We tend to discuss things in which my husband has little interest, e.g. philosophy, religion, original construct of the US banking system. These discussions do sometimes lead to discussions on how we have chosen to live, willingness to be open to new experiences, etc. I guess we are the exception; just celebrated our 39 anniversary.

This was such a nice conversation! You both were great:) Completely agree with you, to me friends with benefits is just nonsensical. As for man and women being friends without developing feelings for one another I believe it to be really unrealistic. Great video!

I think that 2 people with borderline personality disorder would clash. It seems they would bring out the worst in each other.

The movie 'MY BEST FRIEND'S WEDDING' comes very much to mind !.

I don´t really experienced any kind of problems with male / female friendships. My boyfriend has mostly female friends and that´s fine with me. But we also have an open relationship, so I don´t worry about him cheating in any way, I´m not the jealous type, despite having bpd. My friendships with males have been pretty unexciting, as i tend to fall in love far more readily with females than males. Some guys told me that they would be open for more, but that never was a deal breaker for me. I want to have sex with basically every woman i meet, but i don´t have to act on that urge and i expect others to also have the ability to restrain themselves if their urge is not appropriate for the situation

Learning to have friends while living as a couple is essential, although issues of boundaries in intimacy must be observed. It's complex and might lead to jealousy, even without any sexual attraction.

I have a male friend in another city who has been my good friend for 20 years and we've kept in daily contact over the internet. Our interactions are mostly joking or discussing politics and only address emotional issues when one or the other is having a particularly rough time. This bothered my BPD ex but being in separate cities and with us both being in relationships for a lot of the time, I think the jealousy and suspiciousness was more manageable. The benefit for me was to have a good male friend who displayed non-BPD behaviour which helped me keep my sanity during my ex's rough patches. There is no way in the world I would have given up the friendship for my relationship. My BPD ex had already socially isolated me enough!

I agree totally with u both.

Boundaries are critical and hard to enforce in this situation.

I’m going to share this in my FaceBook group, “Take Back Your Life MTL” 😊

I think another question would be about having marriages with benefits. There is a complementary question here to the effect that many - not all and maybe not even most - people seem to have trouble aligning sex with best friend for life in a primary relationship.

Dr. G 'friends w/benefits' is merely a one-sided relationships where one person is in love & the other person is using them.

Maybe I don't want to plan a future with someone or commit to one relationship. Whats the big deal? No one's entitled to those things from anyone? I don't even really get the point here.

The Dynamics of this split screen! Lol! ‘Clinical’ Tension! Dr. Grande w/a bed in the bkgd! and Aussiemum unable to keep back a smile! Very entertaining. :) probably just my imagination. Clearly this calls for further Field research with a Cork or two and a corner table in an Italian restaurant! Cameras rolling for your viewers’ edification, of course. Purely professional, mind you! ;)

No bpd here and I don't know what the data is on this but personal experience leads me to believe it isn't a good idea , it just creates dramas I don't want.

You have some really good points. I would think, though, that cross-sex friends would be good BS filters to know who is or isn’t truly monogamous. If it’s just avoided altogether, how can it be tested? How can you know the true nature and what is possibly or probably in the thoughts and heart of your partner? This, of course, only pertains to monogamous heterosexual and cisgender people in platonic relationships. As far as the friends with benefits construct, yes, I can’t imagine someone with BPD dealing well with that, but then again, they may be wired in a way that makes that situation feel more beneficial to them.

I wonder about you two and …??? You sure make interesting videos together. I personally believe that male/female friendships are very posible and very improbabe.

Your right, my absolute best friend and I had an amazing friendship for years. We never took it physical, even though we talked about it, I never thought I wanted that. He overdosed and died in front of me. Now I find myself really wishing and fantasising about that aspect. I don't know if that's because of the general lost potential, or the trauma. because I'm sure if we had actually slept together it would have ruined everything. Especially because I was and Am married to the man I consider my soulmate... If your partner isn't your best friend... It's an issue. Complicated stuff 💔

Hello, Dr Grande, I recently came across the case of the murder of Lauren Astley and the subject of Breakup Violence. Would you be willing to produce a program on your KZfaq channel about the case and the wider topic of unrequited love and relationship violence? Thank you, Phillip

The ex wife was borderline(not diagnosed), ended up being extremely possessive and following me(even after our divorce). Today, lol, I’m a therapist and have moved past it but when I look back still cannot believe I subjected myself to that toxicity, didn’t see it from the beginning. FWB is natural as most species are polygamous. It is a natural instinct. I agree with Todd, though, big-time maladaptive risk-taking behavior. It is also a source of devaluing the self - you hear it in session all the time. People report feeling empty in the end. Good point by the lady - so many people end up wanting more - in fact, even more than report it; fear of being hurt upon rejection.

Feeling and F in used.. Been there done that. Person would say, "enjoy the ride".

I think that men and women can be friends but it can be quite tricky. Especially if one of them has BPD. I personally never had a straight male friend who wouldn't eventually end up wanting to be my boyfriend. I have a big problem with emotional intimacy and boundaries. For me it's almost impossible to recognise what kind of things belong to the 'relationship category' and what's just pure friendship. I can be emotionally intimate with men and women on the same level and it took me a while to realise that men take it as a invitation for something more. There were times when I genuinely liked the guy as an older brother and spent a lot of time with him and I wouldn't never even think about flirting with them or even having any physical interaction. It always ended up the same way though I never saw it coming. I realised when it was too late and they because too dependent on me. I felt betrayed and cornered after they confessed and I split on them. Since then I never hang out with men except for homosexuals because I know it's my fault that I can't see the boundaries between just friends and lovers. Even with my gay friends we sometimes become so close that it feels like we are dating but I still feel safe because they don't demand any physical relationship and only appreciate my personality. I

I would be interested how this plays out for people with other sexual identities and other sexual preferences. With women and men there is this whole baggage of culturally acquired expectations. They lend additional bias to the research done...