From Chaos to Order: Terrence Deacon on Homeo, Morpho, & Teleodynamics

Рет қаралды 998

Күн бұрын

Deacon discusses his 3 nested hierarchic levels for all systems - which are at the heart of his legendary 2011 book, Incomplete Nature. We build from homeodynamics to morphodynamics to teleodynamics. The 4-page paper covering these high-level details:
🚩 Teleodynamics: Specifying the Dynamical Principles of Intrinsically End-Directed Processes iaisae.org/wp-content/uploads...
🧠 Incomplete Nature www.amazon.com/Incomplete-Nat...
Terry Deacon is Professor of Anthropology and member of the Cognitive Science Faculty at the University of California, Berkeley. Renowned for his groundbreaking work on the evolution of language and symbolism, Deacon's interdisciplinary approach explores the intricate connections between brain structure, semiotic processes, and human consciousness.
Homeo
0:00 Terry's background
10:00 Incomplete Nature & absence
12:00 Homeodynamics / thermodynamics
16:00 Morphodynamics self-assemble but are self-destructive
22:00 Teleodynamics and viruses
25:00 Autocatalytic sets
🔥 28:00 Each system relies on the others' boundary constraints
Morpho
32:30 When are conditions just right for morphodynamics? Homeo +A + Homeo -A
35:20 Rayleigh-Bénard convection cells
38:00 W. Ross Ashby's "self-simplification"... Morpho = generation of constraints
40:35 Constraints & Shannon information
45:05 Normative chemistry & the origin of value
48:20 3 information types and 3 dynamics.... semiotics
52:15 Symbolic communication requires removing iconic index
57:30 Triadic hierarchy... Charles Pierce "firstness, secondness, thirdness"
59:45 DNA, RNA, amino acids & iconic to indexical links... recursive loops
🔥 1:06:30 "An emergent dynamical transition is signaled by a change in the topology of the phase space of probable dynamical trajectories."
1:09:00 1D topology constraining structure of 3D topology
1:12:36 'Morphodynamics' because there is no "self"
1:13:50 Morphodynamics eventually decays to homeodynamics, teleo decays to morpho
Teleo
1:17:55 Semiotics only in the humanities and not science, sadly
1:23:23 Why do symbols begin with teleodynamics? Requires interpretive mechanism
1:28:00 Gregory Bates' map-territory relationship... the key to life... information is physical
1:34:15 'Information' is not about information... it's about the signal
1:35:30 Is there a level 4, beyond teleodynamics? Peacocking
1:38:15 Specifics on homeo/morpho/teleo
1:40:00 Symmetry breaking
1:42:45 Scientific community's response to Incomplete Nature? (+autogenic viruses)
1:47:40 Karl Friston's free energy principle
1:52:30 Douglas Hofstadter's strangle loops in Gödel, Escher, Bach
1:55:00 The self-undermining paradox discovered with set theory
1:56:30 Complex/imaginary numbers
🔥 1:59:25 Incompleteness story built into the cosmos... can't stop dimensionality
2:05:55 Take Godel literally "...because the universe has no miracles, it has to be incomplete"
2:06:45 Absence... yin/yang & Tao Te Ching
2:09:50 A book every 14 years
2:10:30 If you could give your 20-year-old self one piece of advice?
🎥 Watch Further
Self-Organization is Not Enough | Terrence Deacon • Self-Organization is N...
Teleodynamics: Specifying the Dynamical Principles of Intrinsically End-Directed Processes • T19 W117 Terrence Deac...
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#dynamics #semiotics #information #science #complexity #autocatalysis #godel #shannon #symmetry

Пікірлер: 13

@Carlos.Explains 4 ай бұрын

What do you think of Terry's 3 levels of dynamic systems?

@generalizedpaperfold 23 күн бұрын

Interesting conversation! I fully concur with Professor Deacon's observation that the field of semiotics has been regrettably overlooked within the scientific community. It's refreshing to see this important topic being discussed! Subscribed.

@FrizzelFry 4 ай бұрын

Always great to hear people who are excited to talk about what they work with ❤

@Pretzels722 4 ай бұрын

It amazes me the quality of interviewees on this channel! Im curious - how do you get such great people on?

@Carlos.Explains 4 ай бұрын

Thanks, that's kind of you! I just reach out to them via their publicly available emails. :)

@a-guess-at-the-riddle 3 ай бұрын

One thing interesting to note about the 1-2-3 (going back to Peirce ) is how these triads can get confusing depending on context/application. That is the ordering can differ depending on if what is being emphasized is firsness and secondness seen as adjacent in emergence, e.g. 1-2-3 or if one wants to emphasize the middle-ness of mediation (or harmony) with thirdness in the second spot. You even see this spiritual and/or archetypally with the question of how we nest the notions of body, spirit, and soul. To understand the complexity is to see it both through the lens of a beginning-end emphasizing lifecycle and also as a middle-emphasizing S-curve-like concept and that the triad is better described more subtly as a fractal with certain nesting constraints for its "degenerate" or mixed categories.

@projectmalus 4 ай бұрын

paused at 57 min, absolutely marvelous conversation, subbed. If asserting, allowing and enabling move thru size, shape and speed (or efficiency) and self is persistent in self corrective dynamics, then so far it seems quite neo-Platonic which I'm interested in. Thanks.

@Carlos.Explains 4 ай бұрын

Thank you! I find platonism quite appealing. :)

@mootytootyfrooty 4 ай бұрын

yoooo my man is talking about convection cells, I wonder if he knows rod swenson

@a-guess-at-the-riddle 3 ай бұрын

This should open to p268: books.google.com/books?id=aT_y7ao96LgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=incomplete+nature&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiurPaEqe-EAxUOHNAFHanCAyQQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=onepage&q=Rod%20Swenson&f=false

@projectmalus 4 ай бұрын

The part about 'information is not about information it's about the signal' could possibly be seen in the way a dc circuit is made. By providing a different voltage from the "world outside" via a battery, a current flows to the battery and recombines with the voltage then moves back to the world thru the ground I think, could be wrong. In this sequestered space this artistic medium, the signal, is shaped by various tools like resisters. If you don't have the signal part "the juice" the information access isn't there so the information retreats, and always in the same way which is not informative.

@Carlos.Explains 4 ай бұрын

I love this! I suspect these kinds of patterns of information transmission are central to the mystery...

@a-guess-at-the-riddle 3 ай бұрын

This is spot on emphasizing grounding, circuits and energy. Deacon generalizes the physics notion of "Work". Terry and & Stu Kauffman are both heavily influenced by Peter Atkin's definition defining the term to connote a thermodynamic lens (irreversibility/spontaneity). These slides contain a good diagram regarding his morphodynamic and teleodynamic information (and much else): www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/deacon/Deacon_information_to_semiosis.pdf Also the fact that he has a paper and lecture on EEG/MRI studying the causality and entanglement of the dual dynamics of cerebral blood flow and neuronal activity I think is a specific case of studying how the dynamics ground and unground. note: It is helpful to looks at all of Terry's diagrams, he has an impressive ability to illustrate these complex ideas diagrammatically in his books and articles. The Wikipedia page for Incomplete Nature contains quite a few, but I would also rec. looking at his icon, index, symbol diagrams from The Symbolic Species.