I Have Been Lighting My Portraits Wrong!

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Жыл бұрын

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Where should you place your fill light when taking photos in a studio setting? In this video, Patrick Hall of Fstoppers examines how placing your fill light in different locations can affect the shadows on your images. Using a Profoto B10x and two 3' octaboxes, six different images are created ranging from a single key light to a key light with a subtle fill light added. Is it best to add fill light direct above your camera or should you place your fill light on the shadow side of your model to help open the shadows up even more? Would it ever make sense to add a fill light to the same side of the model that your key light is positioned? Today we find out how all these different positions affect the look of your photography, which ones look the most natural and artificial, and which location might be best for your own photography.

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@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

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@f0t0b0y Жыл бұрын

I do a side key light and then a lantern from above favored to the key side. I donut for my interviews and my photos. The lantern is 3 stops lower than the key. The lantern gives a subtle catchlight in the eye. I also put a grid on my key. It makes everyone skinnier. Same with your model. She looks skinnier without the fill.

@BubbaBearsFriend Жыл бұрын

There is no "right" or "wrong" as long as the result is what you prefer and you know why you're doing what you're doing (ie not just blindly following a rule). It's about artistic choice. Sometimes you want sharper shadows, sometimes not.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

This is very true. The problem is I've never actually sat down and fleshed out this experiment on my own before. I've learned from a lot of super talented photographers who use different fill light locations, and I've come to my own conclusion anecdotally, but never doing something like this. -P

@jasonbodden8816 Жыл бұрын

Clickbait title lol. He knows there's nothing wrong about what he's doing. Oh, FStoppers. At least y'all seem to have gotten back to actual photography content. Finally.

@jaykhaled_m 4 ай бұрын

Great answer!

@AdrianBacon Жыл бұрын

Personally, I prefer my fill light to be super huge, behind the camera, and super diffuse with as little specularity as possible. In my portrait studio, my fill light is a giant white wall behind the camera that measures 10 feet high and 16 feet across with about 4 feet of wrap around the corners towards the subject, and I fill that big surface up with two lights that have 170 degree reflectors and are about 6 feet from the wall (they're ceiling mounted so are out of the way). The subject typically is ~7-8 feet away from the wall facing it, so from their position, it's an absolutely massive light source that has no real direction as it's filling in from above, below, left, and right. I typically use that light as a primary fill just to set to overall baseline shadows (normally 2-3 stops down from my key), then I'll often have a secondary on axis strip light with a grid right below the camera lens to bring up a thinnish strip of shadow to 1-1.5 stops below the key, then place the key light wherever it best gives directionality for the subject and pose.

@michaelschmitt5413 Жыл бұрын

I like the no fill (1st) shot and the fill light on the same side as key. That being said, it really depends on how you want the portrait to "look" artistically.

@ricktwice2205 Жыл бұрын

What if you choose a bigger sofbox next time and save one light? If you prefer main and fill from the same direction i mean

@kevinschwebs1404 Жыл бұрын

I agree! Great video, love learning how to shoot w/lighting

@trevtog Жыл бұрын

My answer...it depends on the end result I'm looking to create. I like that you showed multiple possibilities instead of just the one you liked the most (a big reason you are a great educator). Looking forward to all the new content in the new year.

@charliegreen1989 Жыл бұрын

Great video and interesting subject. I’ve just started to play about with active fill and prefer low on axis about 2 stops under my key.

@corykphotography Жыл бұрын

My favorite photo was photo D. It just stood out the most in my perception. I absolutely love this sort of video. I am just now beginning my portrait path of my photography journey and trying to absorb any and all knowledge of off camera flash techniques.

@gregorysargeant6305 Жыл бұрын

Excellent video I love getting into the weeds of photography as to ratio I'm a 1:3 guy and that depends on the size of the room and the subject.

@MrLPguitar Жыл бұрын

Great video, one thing I don’t understood,what determines that the fill light acts as a fill light when not on the shadow side is it because it’s set lower than the main light ?

@johnleighdesigns Жыл бұрын

Great stuff - I feel all fill light options have a place depending on the goal - even the fill on shadow side I would use for a more commercial catalogue style where you want to light up the clothing and the models features are less of priority

@MrBennyrick77 Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing.

@niccomarchetti1031 Жыл бұрын

In the end it depends on the "artistic" result you are looking for... But if you want a "better" on axis fill, you use a much bigger source, 1° your body in front of it won't change it much and 2° a softer (i.e. bigger) and diffused source won't alter, or bring little alteration, the proprieties of your main source. Use 7ft softed umbrella for example, and on axis, not above 🤨, that way there won't be any visible directionality of your fill. And begin shooting only with your fill, it will give you the deepness of the shadows, from black to dark to light dark, it's your taste. After that add your main light, you can tune after your ratio, but this method helps you to be in the ballpark. The "fill" from the same side, not really a fill, may be a "motivated fill" 🙂, is also more natural (as the on axis from my experience - not really in this demo) and is similar to a lighting technique used in movies, the cove light by Roger Deakins (great cinematographer!!) The "opposite side fill" is more artificial, a little bit like natural light photographers who like to add a light (usually to strong) one the other side of their subject which betrays the use of artificial light and is not natural at all. But as everything in life, it is a question of taste and of artistic choices. Thanks for your videos, don't always agree with them but they are always reflection/discussion starters 👍

@irenezuniga3884 Жыл бұрын

interesting video, my conclusion is that you can use any of them depending on the feature of the subject and which of those features you want to emphasize or "hide"

@qnetx Жыл бұрын

In these examples you pointed the lights directly at the subject. You might also want to try feathering the lights in different combinations to give more of a wraparound to the contours of the face.

@muehlemannfilms Жыл бұрын

tbh i did a lot of those... i dont like to have 2 catch lights in the models eye for such a light setup. i place a flash with a reflector dish pointing away from her getting light bouncing around in the studio and fill in the shadows... 1 catch light in her eye and full control of the shadows and i even could gel the fill light without having a blue catch light in her eyes... my go to setup.

@icegirl1755 Жыл бұрын

cool. learned alot. Never used any fill light or key light before. Just learning.

@peter_shadow7559 Жыл бұрын

Great content. What I don't understand is the relevance of the thumbnail (background) with the video.

@TimWells745 Жыл бұрын

I like the higher contrast so I tend to not have fill or have it 2-3 stops lower so it's subtle. I'd always kinda just thought it made sense to fill the shadow side from the shadow side, but this has encouraged me to experiment some more.

@drpepper998 Жыл бұрын

It depends on the results I'm looking to create. Most of the time I like the fill light just to the right and above the axis. So basically an arms length opposite side of me from the key light. Also using a 1 - 3 ratio as I just want a slight fill.

@MrBennyrick77 Жыл бұрын

I go for this myself. 1-2 or 3 can be just the change of male 1-3, female 1-2 as often we want less shadow on female faces. But it depends more on the customer, their shape and goals. Which is why unlike common perception, we dont just "press a button and take a photo"...

@TheSunnySuttons Жыл бұрын

This was a very educational video.

@kirkdarling4120 Жыл бұрын

You can figure out what direction the fill should come from by doing it wrong: Raise the intensity of the fill equal or nearly so to the key light. If your bright fill is coming from the wrong direction, you will see the conflicting shadows it casts. Often, they will start to show up as shadows on both sides of the nose (ugly...that shadow should only be on one side of the nose). If the light is casting conflicting shadows when the intensity is high...it's always wrong, you're just not paying close enough attention to notice it. It's starting to be visible on image D with the fill on the camera right. There is a difference between a photograph that has been rendered flat by too much properly placed fill and one that is flat because of what is essentially a competing key light. Some other people have suggested bouncing the fill off the rear wall of the studio. That's the best method to raise the overall light level without competing shadows and even without an additional catch light, if you have such a wall. Otherwise, I prefer an extremely large white umbrella just behind the camera as a mobile "wall." Also, as others have said, putting the "fill" light on the same side as the key light is just extending the wrap-around of the key light.

@cvaguam Жыл бұрын

Do you prefer fill light or reflector fill?

@waynecoles6041 Жыл бұрын

I'm not a pro photographer, but when having the fill light on the same side as the key, aren't you merely mimicking a larger softbox? Which is fine, but not what I would call a 'fill' light. I actually prefer the fill on the opposite side of the key light, so it 'fills' the shadows and you then have complete control how much that fill is there. Sure, it will look flat if it is close to the same exposure as the key (because you're filling the shadows to the same exposure). But you can then go to -2 or -3 exposure to get more contrast, but with detail. It's basically behaving like a white v-flat and changing the distance. I didn't mind the photo with the fill on the same side as the key, but I preferred the light on the opposite side (though, I would have brought it down another stop or two).

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

The fill in the opposite side killed too much of the shape of the shadows which is what I was trying to explain with the red line. Yes you can control the amount of fill but it’s also messing with the shape and direction of the shadow. -P

@waynecoles6041 Жыл бұрын

@@FStoppers I will watch again and try to understand. Thanks a lot for the additional information! :)

@ymmichael1 Жыл бұрын

Curious - if you were shooting groups of people, how would this change?

@phynx2006 Жыл бұрын

Patrick, you realize there is no right or wrong only a difference in perspective 💡 All that's left is to add a hair light and bingo bongo your all set to go👍👍 Instead of using a fill light use a white foam board reflector for a reduced softer fill 👀 or not 🤷‍♀

@jaredwolfe8438 Жыл бұрын

Same side fill looked better than I expected. Might need to play with that some. I do like the on axis low best IMO. I tend to keep fill directly behind me.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Yeah one thing that could help with the lower fill is to use a larger umbrella or octabox (say a 5 or 7 foot) and then increase the power a bit more so it's accounting for the photographer/tripod blocking the light. -P

@hawg427 Жыл бұрын

Good video, what model Gretsch is that in the background behind you?

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

It’s a G6128T-TVP Power Jet made in Japan. Pretty cool guitar and feels different than anything else I own. -P

@exs1803 Жыл бұрын

Shouldn't the fill light be a fraction of the main light so that the subject will not be evenly lighted and flat looking? Fill light is to fill in the shadows slightly but not equal or the same as the main light. More than direction is the intensity of the lighting.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this fill light is at 50% so it is a fraction. 25% or 33% might be even more ideal but harder to see the effect of this experiment. -P

@Randy_Gentry Жыл бұрын

Now what side will you place the hair light?

@NoxDiurna Жыл бұрын

I mean it's all good but with such low white ceiling, the impact of directing fill one way or the other is quite minimum, isn't it?

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

This is true to some degree. My ceiling is filling in the subject from above a little more than it should in a larger studio space. The fill is still coming from behind, above, and maybe even the floor but since those surfaces are so far away relatively, the impact isn’t as strong as the secondary fill light. That being said, the “bounced fill” from the stationary key light should be pretty consistent throughout each of these examples including the first, no full example. -P

@jklphoto Жыл бұрын

The classic fill light is non-specular and non-directional. It's only purpose is, as you state, to control the lighting ratio. To wit, you could have ditched the soft box and pointed the fill toward the back of your studio, bouncing off the door/wall. I've worked in studios that bounced it off the white ceiling as well. Non-specular. Non-directional.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Good point and I did use bounced light in another video I did earlier in the year exactly as you described. Problem with bouncing off the ceiling is it is now directional. Straight back against the wall isn’t directional though. -P

@ottawamountainman Жыл бұрын

Focus-recomposed technique combined with the loud focus “beep” ! Sure, It works… but it does take me back about a decade.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Ha yeah I wish the Nikon D850 had a more focusing sensors spread across more of the sensor. I owned the Z7ii for a month before returning it and resorting back to the older tech. The focusing on that camera was more convenient but a few other things annoyed me enough not to keep it. The beep is one of those things I’ve kept from my wedding days where I wanted actual confirmation that my camera was focusing. It’s not a big deal in the studio but when you want to know for certain of your camera/lens got bumped into manual focus or something isn’t working as expected immediately, the beep is still useful. -P

@mikecollins5261 Жыл бұрын

Shadows are a subjective matter. Heck, even just a large reflector does a nice job. And one I actually prefer. What also matters is how your subject is positioned. What many photographers DON'T do is move their lights as they turn their subjects. You can't just leave the main and fill where they are and your done. As the subject turns, so move the light(s).

@FLASHnMODELSdk Жыл бұрын

Your favorite filllight is not a fill light. Its a keylight with a bigger softbox moved forward. Essentially. Try using one big light aimed in front of your model. And you get an even nicer look, giving you exactly what you were trying to achieve in this video.

@waynosfotos Жыл бұрын

Opposite side behind the model. Like a hair light

@Sea0fTime 8 ай бұрын

It's great that you experiment with different lighting positions to find the look you like the best but you missed some key points as to what a fill light is and what its purpose is. The fill light is there to fill the shadows without competing with the key light, not to have light or shadows placed in specific areas. This is the reason the fill light is on axis with the camera. In any other position it isn't a key light, it's a second (or third, fourth, etc) light at a certain light ratio, because it has directionality off axis to the camera and therefore will cast its own shadows. That might be the look you are going for but isn't the point of a key light. By placing a second light on the same side and basic direction as your key light it isn't a fill, you're effectively increasing the size of the key light, thereby creating a softer and more feathered lighting effect. You could do the exact same thing by moving your key light closer to your subject or using a larger surface area for your key light. When it's placed on axis with the camera it isn't creating its own shadows that are visible to the camera because they are pushed directly back.

@CostaMesaPhotography Жыл бұрын

Patrick, although the fill to the left and the fill on axis look similar, I'm confused about something... Isn't putting the fill light on the same side as the key light equivalent to simply adding more key light/exposure? If both lights are coming from the same direction, the way they create highlights and shadows on the subject would seem to be physically identical. Can you comment please?

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Yeah it's an interesting thought. First off, the fill light was never exactly in the same spot as the key light, it was about half the distance from the camera and the key. This allows the fill to wrap around just a little more than the key and fill in at a slightly different angle. In theory it should allow the highlights and shadows fall in the same general direction. Second, another HUGE variable I didn't play around with in this experiment is the size of the full. For all practical purposes, your fill light is usually larger than your key. There are some exceptions like using a ring flash as fill or some sort of theatrical lighting where smaller lights are fill. Increasing the fill size to say a full silk (8'x8' or something similar) and placing the key light in front of the fill or even to the side would make a much bigger impact too because the fill light would then be large enough to wrap around even more. It is something else to consider though -P

@eknight2904 Жыл бұрын

while it is the same type of light, position change makes for different fall-off, strength and distribution, so it adds different diffusion and reflection despite being on the same side. What this session did not test is the difference created by distance/strength variables on same position. Impact might be significant as well. It is all about how you reveal form through contrast and what your objective is, e.g what you want to show/hide.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

This is a great idea for another video, how does size and closeness of your fill light affect your subject? Obviously that’s way too many variables for a more concise video like this one but maybe I’ll explore that one next time I’m in the studio. -P

@elevatorphish Жыл бұрын

What about using a flecky board instead of a fill light?

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

The problem with use reflectors is for them to really work the light needs to bounce off of them. If you put a reflector in most of these positions, very little light would bounce off. A huge V flat might work but then you’d be filling on the shadow side which may not be the desired location. -P

@brentkingstonphotography4615 Жыл бұрын

Very interesting 🤔

@Eduardo_Aguirre Жыл бұрын

bro!!! all what I learned about lighting (fill light) has been thrown out of the window right now...LOL...good video!! keep up the good work. I like the fill light from the same side of the key light. I think there is no right or wrong...just experimentation.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

What all have you learned that needs to be thrown out? -P

@dereck_MT360 Жыл бұрын

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way it’s a matter of personal preference. It also has a lot to do with the type of mood that you’re trying to portray in the photo.

@niccameron6517 Жыл бұрын

I'm a fan of contrasty portrait lighting and one big source from the side and angled from above is my go to, but... I think lighting from the other side can work really well if you really knock down the power on the fill - I like the more symmetrical neck detail where you see muscles on both sides that you mention but in these examples it's not subtle enough.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

This is true, without making this experiment too complicated by adding even more power adjustments, I just left it basically at 2:1 ratio with the key being a stop brighter than the fill (and trying to keep the fill light the same distance from my subject as I pivoted it around her). Knocking it down to 3:1 or even 4:1 is even more subtle and maybe more practical for many photographers. -P

@silverdoggg 6 ай бұрын

There's no need for a fill light. Take that grid off of the key and you end up with the same result. Use a V-Flat on the right to bring the shadows up on the right. People see this and think they need all this gear to get the same image but you really don't.

@raildude270 Жыл бұрын

I’ve been doing this for a couple years now, glad to see I’m doing it “right” 😂

@douglashaag1127 Жыл бұрын

This doesn't make sense to me. If I use a single key light, I put a reflecting surface on the opposite (shadow) side of the subject to bounce light back into the shadows. In that situation, the bounce is akin to another light source. If I follow the advice in this video, I would put the reflecting surface (say, a V-flat) on same side of the subject as the key light. Doesn't sound logical to me.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

It won't work for a non illuminated source. The only reason a Vflat works is because light is bouncing off it. That's the most simple and cheap way of illuminating your shadows but it might be better to ditch the vflat and use an actual secondary light source for your fill. -P

@aaronkidd2410 Жыл бұрын

I liked C the most but thought B was interesting until you pointed out that you could see yourself in the eye's light reflection. After that it became pretty distracting and the weirdly shaped eye highlights were very noticeable.

@dimitristsagdis7340 Жыл бұрын

A D E look nice to me but a bit too much light on the camera left

@theusbadenhorst1848 Жыл бұрын

Very nice comparison. I prefer the no fil for her specifically. Every face is different.

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

The nice thing about adding fill is it's pretty easy to burn the shadows back in, but as we saw in the previous test with Mia, people definitely didn't like adding "artificial" fill by way of the shadow slider in Lightroom. For the featured image in this photo I def burned in the shadows a bit more using the no fill frame but could have easily done it too with one of the fill lights too. -P

@theusbadenhorst1848 Жыл бұрын

@@FStoppersagreed. This subject of lighting portraits is so fascinating. Great content

@HBees79 Жыл бұрын

nice model, what did you do to her, that she's not smiling 🤔

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

Tried to go for consistency. Go to her Instagram, she smiles a lot there! -P

@aussie2uGA Жыл бұрын

I'll be that guy that likes a bit of fill from the right. I'm a school photographer though so what can I say ;)

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

I mean, Olin Mills approves! I kid I kid -P

@fwambach Жыл бұрын

Does Peter Hurley know you think his lighting setup looks “cheaper” or “unprofessional?” 😂

@FStoppers Жыл бұрын

I’d argue that Peter’s lighting is 100% different than anything done in this video. He isn’t lighting the face in a traditional “Rembrandt” or “portrait” way. Instead he’s creating extremely soft yet contrasty light by placing his lights super close to his subject and balancing them in a way that you can’t really tell directionality from them. I love the way Peter lights his headshots because it looks good on every person regardless of age, sex, skin, etc. -P

@fwambach Жыл бұрын

@@FStoppers agreed, just having a bit of fun 😊. Loved the video and all the content you guys produce 👍.

@tonydavies9808 Жыл бұрын

@CesarCampagnani Жыл бұрын

Patrick, please get a profesional haircut, that will get the channel to 1mm subs

@jaegerschtulmann Жыл бұрын

This channel turned into a massive advert for a few select brands. Boring

@jasonbodden8816 Жыл бұрын

"Amateur"? You know you can adjust the flash power of your fill, right? I think that's terrible to say. A lot of great work comes from that "amateur" setup, pal.