This man predicted the series 12 finale

The Bill/Rise of the Mondasian Cybermen is the most disturbing cyberman episode I've seen. Seeing the 'evolution' of them and the ones in the hospital shaking and saying "Pain! Pain! Pain!" only to have their voices muted bc no one wants to hear it or seems to care. Truly frightening!

If they did asylum of the daleks with cybermen. Imagine seeing all the 60s and 80s versions all there as well 😱

Jesus Christ do I want to see Asylum of the Cybermen now.

I forgot Nardole was a cyborg until it was mentioned in this video, I think that does say a lot about him.

I feel that 'World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls' was the one story in Modern Who where the Cybermen were done right and lived up to their true potential. The first part explored the disturbing body horror aspect while the second part explored their unrelenting and never-ending nature. Yes, there maybe were other things going on but that was because it was Capaldi's last stand so of course it would focus on other elements besides them. Plus, I thought it felt more like a Cybermen story than a Master story since the threat of the Cybermen looms over whilst the two Masters are just mere supporting players.

I think Chibnall saw this and thought “Timelord, Cyberman....Timelord....Cyberman.............Timelord......Cyberman........Cyberlord.....Hmmm....”

you pointed out my one frustration with the series 12 finale. the cybermen finally had this amazing story and i was loving it, and then the master came and highjacked it and the cybermen just became footsoldiers for the master again :(

The cyber men are such a gorgeous original sci-fi idea that adapts so beautifully to each generation that I can’t help but view them as my favourite while still being incredibly underwhelmed by how they are portrayed now.

Yeah those Cybus conversion chambers traumatised me. Every time I see a clip from rise of the cybermen or age of steel, my heart rate goes up. Good job Russel T Davis

I like how they gave Cybermen super speed and then immediately got rid of it once they realized how powerful it made them

I agree with you about Series 10 finale up to a point, I feel it strikes the balance between the many threads rather effectively and it is one of my favourite stories because of that. However, I recognise how frustrating it is when the episode shows such a chilling and profound understanding of the Cybermen, only to focus on other factors.

Nightmare in Silver seems to have turned the Cybermen into the Borg from Star Trek, and then crossed with Aliens, which, as you said, completely misses the point of them. A lot of Dr Who episodes only half dive into the themes they are presenting. Especially in the Moffat era, it was all about getting an emotional response by having some major twist or tragedy. He was much better at writing individual episodes than at running the show, in my opinion.

I always thought Doctor Falls would have been way more interesting if Bill was seen in Cyberman form more often. I know her appearing as a human is important to her character, but it would have been cool, even if just for one or two scenes, to have her talking with the Doctor in her Cyberman form.

Chinball: "They now want to become robots now,"

I always thought the ending of "The Age of Steel" was really grim. Letting all those people realise who they are and what happened to them was horrifying. And I always thought The Doctor should have shown more emotion about it.

Another wasted opportunity: One of the Doc's best companions (Lethbridge Stewart) was turned into a Cyberman. He is only shown once as a cameo helping him and his daughter mildly. Knowing that it was one of his best human friends that made that choice should make Doc think about his effect on his companions and the loss that the Cybermen themselves are representing for others

But we all can never forget that one cyberman who made us all cry Rest in peace handles PS I don't think he ever did patch the phone into the tardis.

Always liked Age of Steel as an alternative universe origin. The only downside of it is the design of the Cybermen they went far too robotic and once the horror of the zombie population being upgraded subsides then the final form is a bit Naff. That being said its still a heck of an episode and does most things correctly for a very good cyber story. Great Video!

Honestly, I had no clue Nardole was a Cyborg until you mentioned it... Yeah, they really missed the opportunity there. Damn.

Watching this on the bus and there is a round blue night light behind me that reflected off my phone screen. My emotions and bowels are definitely working 😨🤖

Ngl when the human cybermen of petes world see themselves and go insane it’s honestly the saddest scene in doctor who you see the whole race perish in pain just because they could see and feel who they’d become every cyber scream is just a person screaming themselves to death at the moment they saw they were stuck in a cold metal body that didn’t eat feel or breathe

I hadn’t thought about Nardole or Asylum being more suited to Cybermen good shout

Wish they would make "spare parts" into an episode or two easily the best Cyberman story since tomb

That's crazy! I LITERALLY just finished watching your Peter quill video!

The season 12 rendition of the cybermen had amazing potential in my opinion, and definately could have taken them in a new direction. I thought the idea of tying them in with the story of Frankenstein was very clever, as the original version of Frankenstein was a critique of those who seek to improve humanity through artificial means simply for the sake of doing so. it was also written in a time when people were just starting to view society and technology as something that should naturally progress with time, part of the reason why the novel is still relevent today. I feel like this comparison between Frankenstein and the cybermen was realised by the writers but never really explored. Doing so would have hammered home the point about how the creation of cybermen-like technology could have threatened any race that sought to advance itself, and could be initiated at any point in history. Unfortunately the cybermen ended up getting shoved to one side in the finally to become secondary villains to the master AGAIN, and ended up being bystanders to perhaps the worst twist in DW history. Perhaps something could have been said about techtaioon's (not gonna try and spell it) relentless pursuit of scientific knowledge for the sake of doing so? Nahhhhh.

Forget just the Modern series, I feel like the latter half of the Classic series also utilized the Cybies incredibly poorly. I think, with the Chibnall era apparently going in a relatively more experimental direction, I think we need a straight up horror story with the Cybermen. Do something that’s scary *primarily,* like Blink. I personally feel like the strongest showcase of the Cybermen as something genuinely horrifying is World Enough and Time. It was immediately undercut by The Doctor Falls making them featureless flunkies again. I’d love to see something in the vein of “Dalek” or “Resolution”; revitalize the Cybermen by doing a story about *one.* ONE Cyberman, not even necessarily anything to do with an action plot. Excellent point about Nardole, by the way. Such a waste to never capitalize on his cyborg nature in a Cyberman story.

I’d never even considered asylum of the cybermen before and now I can’t think about anything else.

Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel reminds me a lot of MGS4 as in that soldiers get nanomachines that suppress the trauma of killing people and when it gets turned off at the end of the first chapter all the soldiers get overcome by grief and misery. I wish The Doctor Falls was better, World Enough and Time was great imo and then it just fell flat. The same with all the Moffat finales.

I love World Enough and Time + The Doctor Falls. It’s a great watch and although you don’t see much of the humans before they’re converted, that scene in the hospital where the patients plead for their death to Bill really gives you the same feeling as the dying cyberman scene from Rise of the Cyberman/Age of Steel

Yessss. I LOVE the Cybermen, probably my favourite Who villain. It sucks that they haven't had many great stories in New Who. Their concept is so tragic and terrifying at the same time.

I've got to say I really appreciate your doctor who videos. They're always good fun and interesting to watch

But that funeral scene in The Next Doctor though...

Damn... I'm watching this on my phone too

6:23, “...at every turn...” That was a nice touch, boys.

You must be excited for the “darker” turn of season 12 and the return of the Cybermen with Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein as the backdrop?

How did I just find your channel?! Your Whiplash video was phenomenal, and every video else so far. A well earned subscriber my friend, keep it up ❤️

I really enjoy Series 10 and was so surprised that I've never even thought of the potential Nardole could have in the series finale. A brilliant point, and top video as always - keep it up lads

BOY DO I MISS DAVID TENNANT!

Another awesome video guys, good to see great quality uploads in my sub box

this is why i want a full season where the cybermen are the primary antagonists

I really liked peter capaldi's last story. Genuinely a great cybermen episode

I love your Doctor Who videos! Always informative and interesting. Much love from across the pond!

The issue the Cyberman have is fundamentally, they kind of always been the "Not-Daleks" Heck the only reason they got to have a heyday in Second Doctor's era was because they couldn't use the Daleks. And as much as people make a big deal of the converting as what makes them unique and the revived era lost that, even the classic series never used it much. It barely shows up in their golden age of Second Doctor. Of their four appearances "Tomb" is the only one to really focus on conversion and "Moonbase" and explicitly have them want to invade Earth for it's non-human resources. And then conversion doesn't come up again until "Attack" in the 80's! The series as a whole has never really figured out what to do with these guys. The best we've ever really done is use them to lend importance to an episode is, but at the same the Cybermen are not so important that the episode has to focus completely on them. And then you get stuff like the comics where some writers does a: "what if they were the most bad-ass species?" Even though their other big thing is being on the verge of extinction, or thought extinct. With that theme showing up in some form in six of their nine classic series appearances.

i really want to see a story were they explore the transition from human to cyberman. World Enough and Time went into it, but only explored the physical changes, what if instead it started with just wanting to remove pain, or sadness, and it just kept going form there. What would someone who couldn't experience those things be like.

Your videos are just the best as always

I suspect there are cut script pages doing with cyberNardole exactly as you suggest, but the two parter is just so jam-packed that it got back-burnered.

Great video! You should do a video explaining more about the tombs and how the cybermen become withered and insane and also what the regular cybermen would do in that type of situation i'm referring to attack of the cybermen btw.

I think a modern update, as you partly discussed, should focus on a heathy use of machines vs an obsession.

One of the best cyberman doco's I've seen.

Woah caught this just in time!

I found the Mondasian Cybermen chilling in Capaldi's last episodes. The patients in particular, an existence of "PAIN" as an upgrade really chilled me to the core.

I like the story idea of humans willingly or enthusiastically becoming cybermen. Have no deception, cohersion, or delusion. Give the upgrading peoples a really compelling argument which is not a straw man and then see what the doctor does. Likely the enviroment challange already mentioned.

I'd recommend checking out the big finish stories Spare Parts and The Silver Turk, they both explore great cyberman concepts 👍

Asylum of Insane Cybermen? Holy fuck that'd be terrifying.

I disagree with World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls being a Master story. I think that was what Moffet knew people were expecting so the twist in the The Doctor Falls was that it was a Cyberman story, that both Masters end up having to flee with the Doctor when he makes it so Cybermen think they could upgrade Time Lords

The cyber men scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.

We definitely need more Doctor Who villains like the Cybermen. I have no qualm whatsoever with stating that the Mondasian Cybermen from World Enough and Time was quite easily one of the stand-out sci-fi villains I've seen in the past decade. And it's funny to think that if you took a concept from 1966 and basically gave the costume department the resources needed to give it an "upgrade", as it were, you end up with such a terrifying presence! I agree with this video completely, Doctor Who could do so much with these guys now!

I've always liked that no matter if The Doctor completely gets rid of the cybermen whether it be The Mondasians or Cybus Industries they'd always evolve back into existence as if humanities goal of forever improving is a curse and the result being the Cybermen being inevitable and the doctor just delays the inevitable

10:00 There're canonically loads of different factions/species of Mechanoids and Techno-organics in the Whoniverse... I never really questioned it myself.

I’ve always thought that it might be interesting to see them address something like the boat paradox. A boat is slowly upgraded and has old parts replaced but eventually there is nothing left of the original so is it still the original. I would love a story where someone went through to rebuild someone who had been tuned into a cyberman. Slowly tracking down parts until eventually they have to track down the cyberman version of whoever was transformed for the last few chunks of brain or other parts.

great video!

Love that Lumic and Tennant both showed up in Goblet of Fire as Barty Crouch and Barty Crouch Jnr

Although I agree with the whole, body horror, emotion issue aspect, I think the upgrade continually aspect is an incredibly likely and maybe obvious? conclusion. I don't know how to change that being the case, but when they DON'T upgrade more than they have, it makes little sense to me. They either want upgrades or not. They can't think they're already perfect. That being said I really like the Cyber Men, and the reveals and environment of the ending story there was pretty awesome. I too agree that Clara should have been a Cyberman. It would have made much more sense. Good call.

Finally! Other people besides me prefer the Cybermen as villains for the Doctor! The Daleks are almost too cute. And the preponderance of LOUSY storylines (the Third Doctor did them NO FAVORS!) reduced their malevolence. THey had a brief rebound with Genesis of the Daleks but went back to being silly. That said, Daleks were best in the 1960s. I thought the Cybermen were best in the 1960s, too, but they still have that malevolence and creepiness cyborgs have always had for me.

cant wait to see what season 12 is doing with the cyberman seemingly as the main villain for the season

The Age of Steel Two-Parter is the best the cybermen have been period. It's a fantastic story and was my introduction to the cybermen as a kid.

*" At every turn "* *Shows Cyberman doing a 180 degree angle with it's head.* I see what you did there.

Thank you so much!!

We definitely need a return to form for the Cybermen, they're amazing when we can clearly tell they're an upgraded version of us because it's something that is believable in terms of our future, the Mondasian Cybermen stick with me as a favourite design because they have such an uncomfortable nearly human but more robotic voice, and they retain many human features, most New Who representations take away from the physical side of things, while Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel just about get away with it as we see the conversion process. I'm really hoping we get some Cybermen stories in the same vein as the revered Cybermen stories from Big Finish, stories like Spare Parts manage Cybermen in a way that New Who needs to take lessons from.

I think you managed to perfectly sum it up, and furthermore why, though I liked Asylum of the Daleks, it just didn't stick the way it should have; Cybermen would have been more appropriate.

I don't even watch DW but love these videos I can't lie

My favourite Cybermen line, which reminds me of that famous line from the Controller in Tomb, is from Doomsday - "... Cybermen will remove fear, Cybermen will remove sex, and class, and colour, and creed, you will become identical, you will become like us."

the cybermen of rtd era gave me nightmares - a week of sleepless nights after rise of steel/age of the cybermen, mostly involving myself and my family getting upgraded - but i absolutely loved how they were done

Hi, got a quick question. At the end of the series finally of season 11 it shows planets being restored from the small cubes (havent seen it recently so i might be wrong) but could the red planet being shown be gallifrey? It's given a lot more attention than the others. Thanks in advance

Really enjoyed this file.

Listen to the Big Finish Audio "Spare Parts" - Age of Steel and WEAT reference it a rather lot.

Great video

Nardle being a cyborg is so inconsequential that I don't even think I ever thought about it or realized. I even completely forgot he was there and I watched these episodes 2 months ago

11:26 I was laughing so hard when I watched the new year special, I was like “it’s a garbage darlek, literally!”

0:09 "While there's no question that the daleks are The Doctor's greatest foe" Master:.. (cries inside)

peter capaldi was a great doctor. i loved that finale. it was a good one. i really love twists like that where you see the origins and it is ironic how much the doctor played a hand. just like the story with the dalek supreme leader.

The Cybermen gave me nightmares for months after the first time I saw one of thier episodes. Not even the Daleks got me as scared

I haven't really watched the show for ages but now I feel like I've gotta check out World Enough and Time.

Loved the story line involving the cybermen

Classic series cybermen were indeed more chilling, sneaky and stealthy. Then they just became another stompy robot. Even the new series Mondassian model didn’t escape deafening stomping hydraulics.

The idea that Chibnall would want to return anything to its roots is just comical

I liked the sleeker Nightmare in Silver redesign over the Age of Steel aesthetic. But the Mondasian design is the best, for conveying everything the Cybermen idea represents.

What is the music playing in the background? It's really nice.

3:47 man Tennant was great. Did he ever have a line delivery that wasn’t completely awesome?

What I really want is to see an evolution of them, over a few seasons, starting really human and as the seasons progress, them become more robot

Still terrifying. Remembering been so scared behind the lounge chair.

Funny thing is about Age of steel and Rise of the Cybermen is, Tennant and Roger Lloyd Pack have worked together previously in Harry Potter, so I can just imagine the behind the scenes with them.

6:07 I had an ad from Neil Gaiman right before you said his name, spooky

Rise of the cyberman/Age of Steel aged magnificently. It's like demolition man. They only got more relevant with time

Rise of the cyber men absolutely shat me up as a kid

Taking inspiration from the torchwood episode cyberwoman I feel that the bogged surgery can be from when the doctor stops the cyber men all the infrastructure grounds to a halt people still in the conversation chambers. After the doctor leaves, the residents go to reclaim the factory but find loved ones or people who they know and attempt to care for them, hiding them from site due to the bad blood between the living and the converted.

I've loved the cyber boys when I figured out how they were made My tier list of Doctor Who villains is: Cyber men and Master are in close first Weeping angels Darleks

rise of the cybermen was the first doctor who episode i saw, and i still have nightmares about it. now im not a ride or die fan, but the scene where the citizens are forcibly transformed into cybermen is haunting to me.

I still think the spare parts audio story by Big Finish is one of the best cybermen stories and would be perfect as an actual episode or just a basis for one.