Games workshop CAN'T Paint Custodes! Can I?

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EonsOfBattle

EonsOfBattle

Жыл бұрын

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In this video Jay makes better Custodes than Games Workshop! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday! We're streaming Monday-Friday starting at 9PM CST!! JOIN USSSS! Thanks for watching!
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#warhammer40k #miniatures #gamesworkshop

Пікірлер: 521
@EonsOfBattle
@EonsOfBattle Жыл бұрын
Get these great magnetizable bases! www.cobaltkeep.com/ Coupon Code: Bases10 valid through March 29th! Thanks to Cobalt Keep for helping us continue to create great videos!
@Macman1206
@Macman1206 Жыл бұрын
I got a question what would be a easy way to paint ultra marines?
@sirvivor7835
@sirvivor7835 Жыл бұрын
You undercoated them in black!!
@Macman1206
@Macman1206 Жыл бұрын
@@sirvivor7835 ok I will do that🙂
@TheWhiteWolf2077
@TheWhiteWolf2077 2 ай бұрын
for Custodes should be bright af gold like perfect untarnished gold.
@honnorgaurd
@honnorgaurd 2 ай бұрын
Hey! important question about your bases, i know you used cork in between, but can you give me more detail/explanation about how to do the top part? was a little too quick for me to understand. Im REALLY inspired by how you did your bases and want to do the same for my own custodes.
@jimholmes4729
@jimholmes4729 Жыл бұрын
I like that you left the custodes' balls different. Balls are a very personal, individual thing.
@gr0mit948
@gr0mit948 Жыл бұрын
hehe "balls".
@brockmacpherson8730
@brockmacpherson8730 11 ай бұрын
I love “balls”
@builder969channel6
@builder969channel6 10 ай бұрын
_Clears throat_ "Dammmmnnnn those are some good looking balls," - Jay
@NothingIsKnown00
@NothingIsKnown00 9 ай бұрын
Indeed. Individual balls are also important for Eldar models.
@churchesquire7321
@churchesquire7321 9 ай бұрын
reading this before watching the vid got me asking weird questions.
@Florkl
@Florkl Жыл бұрын
The thing I like about the GW Custodes vs. the FW ones is that GW looks shiny but FW looks dingy. Gold vs. vintage brass. I feel Custodes should be shiny beacons of bright gold, because stealth and subtlety is for people who need an additional advantage, not mighty embodiments of the Emperor’s will.
@vatiti9573
@vatiti9573 5 ай бұрын
And in that way, I always found the dark gold style EOB made a bit too grimdarkey. I'm not saying that it is bad or that the way I do it is better, he made an excellent job. But the illustration for the 8th Edition Codex Custodes front cover inspired me to make my own Custodes with a shade of Fuegan Orange (rather than Reikland Fleshshade), as it makes for a warm bright orangey gold, and the result turned pretty good, I named that style "Emperor's Light" (because I found it quite specific, and I think of it as my way to represent the beacons of the Emperor's Will they are).
@PelinalDidNothingWrong
@PelinalDidNothingWrong Жыл бұрын
Hot take: The Solar Watch and Shadowkeepers have the best Custodes colour schemes. I personally painted mine as and play them as Shadowkeepers
@smiggles9378
@smiggles9378 Жыл бұрын
By far! Solar Watch is certainly a pain to paint, but so worth it
@philipppreiser
@philipppreiser Жыл бұрын
that is not a hot take
@iansiegfried99
@iansiegfried99 Жыл бұрын
This is quite the lukewarm take, how ever a take I agree with. Lockwarden gang
@smiggles9378
@smiggles9378 Жыл бұрын
@@philipppreiser ok
@ACoolDude.
@ACoolDude. Жыл бұрын
I 100% agree. I'm planning to paint mines as Solar Watch but I'm not sure what to do with their bases, I would go for white marble for standard gold custodes, but white bases for white armors doesn't sound so great. Any ideas ?
@daili4917
@daili4917 Жыл бұрын
Now Jay has painted up a Custodes team, that means 100% guaranteed that the next Kill Team big box will have Custodes with a new bespoke team - with brand new minis no less.
@jackgebhardt2932
@jackgebhardt2932 Жыл бұрын
Oof
@warherd_miniatures
@warherd_miniatures Жыл бұрын
I've never in my life had an interest in painting up custodes.. my mind has been changed these are beautiful 😍
@sebastianls412
@sebastianls412 Жыл бұрын
Do it. Join the ten thousand
@chris.replay
@chris.replay Жыл бұрын
I'm doing my entire Custodes army as members of the 300 Hetaeron Guard, the personal guardians of the Emperor himself. Since they spend so much time in his direct proximity, their armor is almost burned by all the psychic energy from the Emperor. Dark, dark almost black gold with bright edge highlights, lots of contrast. Went for a TMM working up from a black, dark silver, several different golds, to a gentle chrome edge highlight. They look SICK. Then I did marble bases using broken imitation marble wall tiles to give their bases a bit of weight. Loved your scheme, probably going to try the orange ink over silver approach on an unpainted Custode next!
@Dorsidwarf
@Dorsidwarf Жыл бұрын
That sounds super awesome
@chris.replay
@chris.replay Жыл бұрын
@@Dorsidwarf thanks!
@holdencross5904
@holdencross5904 6 ай бұрын
@@chris.replaydo you have somewhere I can see this?
@hiddenbladestudios7248
@hiddenbladestudios7248 6 ай бұрын
That’s how I paint mine too, except I do a darker mud base to look like they’re out doing covert operations.
@Illyclone
@Illyclone Жыл бұрын
10:30 It's kind of funny that you decided to have the balls be what's different between each Custodes. Lore dictates that the best way to distinguish which squad or shield company someone belongs to is their matching balls lol. I love it though, models like these deserve to be different to each other.
@JMcMillen
@JMcMillen Жыл бұрын
Next step... Sisters of Silence. Good for when you need extra bodies, even better when facing a psychic heavy opponent.
@Jimothyjohns
@Jimothyjohns Жыл бұрын
Imagine facing the Thousand Sons boarding patrol with Sisters of Silence
@ratedjentertainment
@ratedjentertainment Жыл бұрын
I love bringing a full Sisters of Silence list for my Talons of The Emperor Kill Team, because my brother plays Warp Coven and ALWAYS brings those 3 Sorcerers. His fury is always a joy to behold. I hope they bring World Eaters to KT for him to vent his frustrations on me.
@Jimothyjohns
@Jimothyjohns Жыл бұрын
@@ratedjentertainment haha. Good luck.
@Alertacobra12
@Alertacobra12 Жыл бұрын
​@Caleb Messinger not exactly a boarding but have you ever heard of a certain event called The Burning of Prospero? it gives you a preview of what that situation would look like
@Jimothyjohns
@Jimothyjohns Жыл бұрын
@@Alertacobra12 true. That is a fair comparison
@davidstone-haigh4880
@davidstone-haigh4880 Жыл бұрын
That Greenstuff trick to add height/scale is a great idea. I've dithered on buying some Custodes because they look stumpy and mis proportioned. Definitely gonna reconsider now (from a 3rd party seller of course).
@LL-bh6bt
@LL-bh6bt Жыл бұрын
Those custodes on the webstore are, funnily enough, even more limited than the paint recipe used for the other custodes units. That's because those were released before retributor armour, liberator gold, or (I think but I might be wrong) Stormhost Silver were created so they look cold and sad compared to the other guys haha.
@thehunter1113
@thehunter1113 10 ай бұрын
they don't use the airbrush paints i believe which are different as they are mostly forge worlds old airbrush paints.
@iamyourmom2
@iamyourmom2 7 ай бұрын
Storm host silver, retribution armour and liberator gold were released at the same time I'm pretty sure, and IIRC custodes were released just after retributor and liberator gold was released in the burning of Prospero box
@Davidwentworthart
@Davidwentworthart 9 ай бұрын
i feel like the marble texture trick would work well on the power weapons, creating almost a static-like lightning effect if you paint the weapon white and then add the blue over top.
@rossvolkmann1161
@rossvolkmann1161 Жыл бұрын
I love the idea of putting a spacer under the heads to add height. I'm currently putting some custodes together and I think I'm doing to slice and contour some discs of plastic rod to do just that.
@gregmccormack5709
@gregmccormack5709 Жыл бұрын
Your comment about the individuality of custodes warriors gave me colored lightsaber vibes based on the person. They look great!
@bigdrac
@bigdrac 3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the tutorial. Used it and it is stunning. Used other accent colours but this is my go to gold now
@odharrison23
@odharrison23 Жыл бұрын
Those custods look amazing!! I like your recipe for gold and marble bases. The milliput and breaking it really add a little extra to the base! I’ll have to try both methods!!! Thanks gents! Fantastic as always!!
@DRRCreations
@DRRCreations 6 ай бұрын
Absolutely fantastic video! Such a fun tutorial to follow and the end result was gob smacking! Thank you! 🤟😀
@ElCrims
@ElCrims Жыл бұрын
In the lore, gemstones (the balls) are standardized across shield-hosts, though I like giving my dudes a little more individuality too.
@felix_thebear
@felix_thebear Жыл бұрын
I have to say the idea of the floor at the bases is really great!
@Perram
@Perram Жыл бұрын
Great job on these! I've been tempted to start a Fireteam of these and now you've sold me on it.
@howtohammer40k
@howtohammer40k Жыл бұрын
These look great! Some of the techniques you used I would have never thought of
@xd2s928
@xd2s928 Жыл бұрын
Psst hey. One thing you left the eyes that should be red but if every Custodian with different ball colour get the some hue of that balls on their eyes, also black orbs with black eyes... That would be Epic. Great job btw
@mickbrilliantfootballeroft327
@mickbrilliantfootballeroft327 Жыл бұрын
Man you are such a joy to watch.. Wish I had a pal like you. So skillfull at our hobby. Top drawer man. Tops :)
@cheech381
@cheech381 Жыл бұрын
Such a good vid and paint job. I will take your advice and divert from GW meta paint style when I do mine now!
@DIAzazel
@DIAzazel Жыл бұрын
Waits for Jay to say "blue balls!" but it never happened ...I see what you did there
@danielh2945
@danielh2945 3 ай бұрын
man I'm glad I just finished a bunch of custodes and then saw this and now I'm gonna have to go strip them and repaint them cause this looks way better
@MrCrystalwarrior1
@MrCrystalwarrior1 Жыл бұрын
I found some dirt cheap marble effect vinyl floor tiles in my local discount shop, and bought the whole lot, just so I wouldn't have to paint marble effect on the bases of some Custodes I painted fro a customer :-) Worked for me, and she was delighted with them. I LOVE how you've painted and "converted" your Custodes, to make them look SO much better than they do on the GW website. To be honest, I know many people who don't like the NMM finish GW seems to use on their Custodes, saying they can't achieve that effect themselves, and so are put off trying. I'll definitely give your method a try for myself, as my NMM painting really needs improving, and any help is very welcome :-) Wonderful tutorial yet again :-D I just wish we'd had the internet way back in 1970, when I first started in the hobby, and had only enamel or watercolour paints to work with :-> If I knew then what it's taken me over 50 years of being in the hobby now, I'd be a definite powerhouse painter. Then again, 50 years of learning and experimenting, working things out for myself, it's all been so much fun, and I wouldn't appreciate the skills I have now if I hadn't put in the time and effort :-) Being able to still learn and be inspired after a lifetime in the hobby is what keeps me painting and modelling today, as it never gets "old" for me :-D
@M0xieLeTwlnk
@M0xieLeTwlnk Жыл бұрын
Love your way of painting, keep doing what you do! You made me develop a passion for Warhammer 40k! Also, I probably would've went for a slightly brighter gold color for them to be closer to the pure gold color they have in the art works. Also, question. Will you paint a squad of imperial fist space marine soon? I've been thinking about starting my own little army and I'd love to see how you'd paint them.
@TheFezmond
@TheFezmond Жыл бұрын
They look amazing. I prefer my gold a bit duller too but I'm not that handy with the air brush to get that result. I would've painted in the eye lenses though.
@cademiksek6769
@cademiksek6769 Жыл бұрын
Your skill with an airbrush is incredible. I have so much to learn about that painting style!
@aszargo
@aszargo Жыл бұрын
Their scale should match the epic stories they have, so I also used greenstuff to make them higher and more menacing and it did wonders for them!
@darkowl9
@darkowl9 3 ай бұрын
That trick with the dry wet wipe to make marble was a stroke of genius. Fantastic effect, looks amazing.
@barlotardy
@barlotardy Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sneaking in that marble base tutorial! That was a new one to me.
@ThePhildozer89
@ThePhildozer89 2 ай бұрын
I really love those bases and how you made them look a bit taller with the green stuff. I'm still pretty new to the hobby and I want to try this with my custodes. Any tips with adding the green stuff and using the milliput?
@latchbox9726
@latchbox9726 Жыл бұрын
"Dang those are some good looking balls" made me realise what it is about this channel that I love - the tone is just exactly my brand of tongue in cheek humour but played with a straight face.
@o0Takeno0o
@o0Takeno0o 2 ай бұрын
i cant tell how much better they look with the slightly higher statue
@benives254
@benives254 Жыл бұрын
Amazing job. I like how you increased their height slightly. I have always loathed those ridiculous swords however.
@MentoliptusBanko
@MentoliptusBanko 6 ай бұрын
I feel you with the capes. I never seem to find a way to paint then that I like. When I find a way to paint that I like, it turns out that it works only on huge models or on very textured capes. They way you did it has the best result....but it is the most time consuming. Btw, super nice custodes....waaaay better looking than the GW website ones :)
@Jasonlol73
@Jasonlol73 Жыл бұрын
Dude you’re really fun to watch, the paintings are dope but you also have character
@joshuadickenson8266
@joshuadickenson8266 Сағат бұрын
Would love to see the actual conversions I want mine bigger as well
@TheSpartan9670
@TheSpartan9670 Жыл бұрын
I'm about to start a custodes army in a alpha legion esque colour scheme with lots of blended sea type tones
@nickdavis5420
@nickdavis5420 Жыл бұрын
Love the dark wash for oil streaking.
@kjbyrd1113
@kjbyrd1113 Жыл бұрын
I really think that some gold grout would up the fanciness of the bases, I really like the unique colored balls
@mrmisterfox5130
@mrmisterfox5130 Жыл бұрын
These look great. Well done, Jay - nice work.
@dockoutt3197
@dockoutt3197 Жыл бұрын
I'm actually building a 2k point custodes army right now. Was planning on airbrushing ret gold but I like your gold much better.
@robertm8779
@robertm8779 Жыл бұрын
I don't paint much - 180 to 300mm statues - But I love your orange ink method - I need to see if I have any or go buy some :)
@imperi-um3579
@imperi-um3579 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Those bases look incredible, I may have to try that one day
@tacticalbutter4574
@tacticalbutter4574 7 ай бұрын
Honestly the idea of greenstuff between some parts to make them slightly taller is BRILLIANT because these guys should be standing taller than any unnamed character.
@BarelyDecentProduction
@BarelyDecentProduction Жыл бұрын
this is a nice coincidence, I just bought some custodian guards and now I got a new related video
@shadowops62
@shadowops62 2 ай бұрын
I totally like your paint job far more than GW's. Their technique gets tired after so many years. You bring a fresh look and I like it. Thanks for the video!
@Epyon9
@Epyon9 Жыл бұрын
I would suggest a dryer sheet instead of a wipe cloth for the marble base, big difference in the fibers between the two cloths and the marble looks more realistic and vieny. Trust me I work IRL with marble all the time
@rjtwo5434
@rjtwo5434 Жыл бұрын
Dude! That cape is phenomenal! You are clearly talented my man. Love the channel!
@mrjasonharter
@mrjasonharter Жыл бұрын
Nice work on the marble floors!
@Nico-ym9kh
@Nico-ym9kh Жыл бұрын
Can you give me an detailed description for the bases iam new to the whole miliput/greenstuff thingi. Started my custodes this month and was looking for marble bases but nothing felt quite right for me until i saw your amazing work. you make awesome videos btw
@aguiaia1
@aguiaia1 2 ай бұрын
I'm always surprised no one tried electroplating a custodes model
@johnhildenbrand2642
@johnhildenbrand2642 4 ай бұрын
"The custodes have literally never lost!" *proceeds to lose with them his first time out*
@Tech419z
@Tech419z Жыл бұрын
I’m definitely saving this vid so I can take inspiration.
@kickingmagpie
@kickingmagpie Жыл бұрын
I'm definitely going to add a little blob of greenstuff to my custodes to make them a tiny bit taller, should have thought of it myself.
@reddragon4482
@reddragon4482 Жыл бұрын
Impressed with those bases. Great idea bro.
@joahnaut
@joahnaut Жыл бұрын
You forgot to do their eye lenses bro.
@paulcatindig2260
@paulcatindig2260 9 күн бұрын
What paint did you use for drybrushing? The orange ink?
@zakstrazdas9221
@zakstrazdas9221 4 ай бұрын
I’m going to be painting custodes for my wife. This is just a video I needed! They look absolutely amazing 😮
@Andyyybeeeee
@Andyyybeeeee 8 ай бұрын
how do you get the models to stick to the square painting handles, so cool , i've never actually not attached them to a base fully before painting :( to scared
@anakkepri5769
@anakkepri5769 Жыл бұрын
gonna be honest the custodes painting and not forgetting the captain cape, is so awesome. it really represent the dark theme of the 40k. the weapon is good to but, me personally i would not use that kind of blue for the blade, for me the contrast is so strong almost not fitting. maybe ill do something else with the blade. regardless of my opinion on the blade painting, this is still a cool looking custodes, would love to do try this pattern myself.
@lstormhammer
@lstormhammer Жыл бұрын
I didn't want to scrub 8000 points of Custodes clean and repaint them, but now I feel I must... :D
@Tyrellie
@Tyrellie Жыл бұрын
Same problem here with 12k of those auric Boys
@lstormhammer
@lstormhammer Жыл бұрын
@@Tyrellie what sold me on 'you gotta redo these' is the stunning and easy bases Jay put them on.
@garylane6227
@garylane6227 8 күн бұрын
Fantastic paint job!
@MrDeathMachine
@MrDeathMachine Жыл бұрын
“They’ve never lost” My Brother in Christ, have you forgotten the very reason why The Imperium is crumbling? They lost the War in the Webway. But great paint scheme. My inner Blood Raven has purloined it for my future attempt at Custodes.
@DeceiverIX
@DeceiverIX Жыл бұрын
The ship command center looks SOOOO cool!!! Ooooomgshshhhh!
@aappodanschu9468
@aappodanschu9468 Жыл бұрын
Great video! I tried to copy the gold armor on my kill team but they ended up being just bright orange rather than golden🤔😅
@hav6301
@hav6301 9 ай бұрын
Im trying to do those bases but I'm really struggling with the milliput, how do you exactly did them step by step? I know it seems pretty straightforward but cant quite figure out how to flatten a good chunk of milliput to get the right consistency
@paladinpariah325
@paladinpariah325 Жыл бұрын
I could never figure out how to fix the guerilla arm syndrome these models have always had. Your solution is so simple and super effective. Thanks for the inspiration.
@troyloizouii2747
@troyloizouii2747 Жыл бұрын
I’d love to see a kill team battle report on your channel and to see those amazing paint jobs in action
@christiandobson1162
@christiandobson1162 9 ай бұрын
Amazing! Youve fixed my sanguinary guard dilema, thanks so much!
@ConradFiat
@ConradFiat 2 ай бұрын
Sadly, i find the webstore still a lot more appealing since they seem a lot more gilded then the finished paint of yours. Still, they look quite nice!
@Vin_Venture896
@Vin_Venture896 Жыл бұрын
Just so you know, the Box Art custodes were actually painted with Army Painter metallics lmao.
@themoshans9333
@themoshans9333 Жыл бұрын
how do you know ? thats funny
@MrCai01
@MrCai01 Жыл бұрын
If the podcast with Peachy is anything to go by the painting team seem to be locked down to only using citadel products
@Vin_Venture896
@Vin_Venture896 Жыл бұрын
@@MrCai01 The Eavy Metal Team aren’t. While they mostly use citadel (because as much as people crap on it, citadel are mostly pretty solid) they sometimes use alternatives for certain paints, such as Vallejo Metal Color Dark aluminium or a 50/50 mix of Vallejo Model air silver + AK black as a leadbelcher replacement. They also use Liquitex burnt Sienna/Burnt Umber as a chestnut ink replacement or use black ink instead of nuln oil, etc.
@TheMartinator99
@TheMartinator99 7 ай бұрын
@EonsofBattle can you spare some more details on how exactly you did the miliput tiles? Ive been trying to cut hardend miliput and cant get edges like that. I know this video is a bit older by now but id really appreciate some help as im building and paiting custodes by your recipe (approx) right now :)
@Willabrador
@Willabrador Жыл бұрын
Wow dude, they look amazing!
@LowlySlime
@LowlySlime 11 ай бұрын
These are some of my favorite models you've painted in the channel, they turned out great
@GrapeHate
@GrapeHate Жыл бұрын
Those gems remind me of Final Fantasy VII's glorious Playstation 1 graphics. Love it!
@retrocalypse
@retrocalypse Жыл бұрын
Late to the party but i just started Custodes and want to paint in this style. Question. Does anyone know what color Jay used for drybrushing after applying the orange ink?
@user-fn2rt6lb1o
@user-fn2rt6lb1o Жыл бұрын
I painted the gem sockets on my guys emerald green. I wanted to mimick the fel energy green that Blood elf spell breakers have since their hair and cape have deep crimson colors. Their eyes I also made fel green
@MarcinEstkowski
@MarcinEstkowski Жыл бұрын
It's a cool idea to make minis how you feel they should be. Cheers!
@nicolasdubos2797
@nicolasdubos2797 Жыл бұрын
Seriously ! Great job !
@keithsimpson2685
@keithsimpson2685 4 ай бұрын
after black primer I will dry brush dark grey a bit to see details to paint easier
@meh1994able
@meh1994able Жыл бұрын
what did you use to roll the milliput flat and did you wet it to stop any sticking
@ThYr0N
@ThYr0N 2 ай бұрын
In my case I followed you recipe, using DUAL EXO Gun Metal and Silver from AK some Creed Camo GW Contrast for the greens and a wash of oil (burnt umber+black) and it looked sick!!! Until I used FIRE ORANGE ink from AK interacte and ............................ the hole custode is orange 😆 Now I've tried and for my silvers Iyanden Yellow over silver it have a nice shade of gold.
@leonidaspereirafilho499
@leonidaspereirafilho499 Жыл бұрын
7:20, you barely put any force to them haha. Still, great video! The custodians looks amazing.
@raychu6
@raychu6 Жыл бұрын
very nice paint job.
@moodyowlproductions4287
@moodyowlproductions4287 Жыл бұрын
God Emperor of mankind"you dare insults my golden bananas"
@Mavericktravo
@Mavericktravo Жыл бұрын
What are you using to stick the unpainted models together? it looks like pster putty, but I've never seen any quite that thin before. Also, the greenstuff, was there a specific amount you used, or more of a Bob ross approach - adding a little more each time until it felt 'right'?
@chickynugs
@chickynugs Жыл бұрын
"I lost against Shaun, but it was so close..." mhmm I believe you. I was also so close to winning the lottery once, my numbers were 1,2,3,4,5,6 and the wining numbers were 33,28,3,69,11,54. So close. One day we'll have that which is rightfully ours. Anyway nice bananas.
@christianhines2671
@christianhines2671 Жыл бұрын
I understand how you did the base coat in orange, but how did you do the highlights? Did you change the orange in the drybrush?
@mikhail628
@mikhail628 Жыл бұрын
Hey! Did you find the answer?
@badmiton12
@badmiton12 Жыл бұрын
Imagine NOT loving Golden Bananas. Couldn't be me
@fatalfolkminiatures
@fatalfolkminiatures Жыл бұрын
That looks amazing especially tha marble bases because they make the models pop
@TheIronFourth
@TheIronFourth Жыл бұрын
Is there anyway to do the ink without a airbrush? They turned out great.
@mwingate774
@mwingate774 Жыл бұрын
What paint color did you use for dry brushing on the gold?
@mikhail628
@mikhail628 Жыл бұрын
Hi! Did you find the answer to this question?
@nunyahbuidness7959
@nunyahbuidness7959 Жыл бұрын
Fun Fact, you can actually get real fine grain marble and cut it with stone hole saws to base size. Mind you I am really digging that green marble!
@Michael-wn3rh
@Michael-wn3rh Жыл бұрын
I think the leather straps are a missed opportunity to add a teritirary color.
@vashlex
@vashlex Жыл бұрын
Very nice to create grim dark Custodes, I think they look better than the original box art 😊
@Sorrowdusk
@Sorrowdusk Жыл бұрын
@5:59 I had never thought of that technique. Could that work with Dryer Sheets too?
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