Gas rating for one minute instead of two, REALLY. taking a look at gas safe TB 162

Рет қаралды 15,724

9 ай бұрын

Derek takes a look at gas safe technical bulletin 162 to see if you can really reduce the gas rate time on a metric meter from two minutes to one minute and still get the same results. He then looks at the cubic feet meter to see if you can reduce this test also.

Пікірлер: 88

@jeremydennis176 9 ай бұрын

We’ve all had those situations where struggle to get rid of heat when gas rating . System already been on etc so lesser test duration would be handy

@tomstrutton4351 9 ай бұрын

Especially as it’s gotta be on for 5 minutes before we analyse

@ginola602 9 ай бұрын

Spot on,and gas rating on a 20 year old gas meter that's never been calibrated since it was installed,yet we have to use this to determine if an appliance is working correctly ! Doesn't sit quite right!

@johncummins3860 10 күн бұрын

Gas rate testing never sat right with me !!@@ginola602

@baitrunner1000 9 ай бұрын

Great video as ever. Many many years ago when I was training I used to try this 1 min method and the 1/2 a revolution method also. The results were the same as you found. It’s the same results.

@mrcombiBedford 9 ай бұрын

Hi Derek, excellent video as always, Our Gas Rate APP has a massive download because we always had 1 or 2 minuet choice. The EU has always been ONE minuet only the UK was different as usual. Hope to see you Wednesday Thursday afternoon, George Mr Combi👍🤩

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

See you at the theatre of dreams then George 👍🏻

@efrygasservices6169 9 ай бұрын

I think your app calculates for any time period. I just tried 30seconds and it worked out fine as well. Now I am going to try 15 seconds. Haha

@mrcombiBedford 9 ай бұрын

Will do@@tomkatgastraining

@mrcombiBedford 9 ай бұрын

This is true, but the regs say one minuet, thanks for the download, take care, George👍@@efrygasservices6169

@jameswilson2899 9 ай бұрын

The one minute test will definitely help when serving and the boiler has been on before arrival. Good video

@scottlouis4076 9 ай бұрын

Always golden Derek. ❤

@brotherjohnno 8 ай бұрын

Thanks Derek, saved me reading the tech bulletin

@chazzlebazzle69 9 ай бұрын

Smart meters could be a pain...waiting for the digit to change rather than watching the dial

@chohanchohan8208 8 ай бұрын

Wicked video Del Boy - you like me question EVERYTHING not to prove it’s wrong but to prove it full stop..

@user-li8gr8ur8l 5 ай бұрын

Wow Derek❤😂. That was quite some testing you did there. Thank you for your in depth video it was very beneficial and cleared a lot of questions.

@user-it1yf7xr7b 3 ай бұрын

Been doing one mi since 95 tried this at the time always worked out same on metric just goes to show 😊

@jockster5525 8 ай бұрын

Adrian brown training has taught this for years. .well done Adrian...you won your argument

@tomkatgastraining 8 ай бұрын

If he has been teaching it for years then he hasn’t been following industry standards 🤔

@aDsYKiNs 9 ай бұрын

Currently on my domestic gas course and can’t wait to bring this up to our tutor 🎉

@markchristohperowen6806 8 ай бұрын

dont be the smart arse ask him about the 323 quick gas rate figure though :P not totally accurate but saves some calculations.

@davewellsheatingengineer 5 ай бұрын

Been doing it for years.. so often in the summer you struggle to get rid of heat quick enough .. we all have to live in the real world, we are engineers and as such make decisions based on the situation at the time

@peterburgess4637 9 ай бұрын

So glad you read these technical bulletins ..really keeps the rest of us current, sweep test, flue integrity tests, tick box lists. etc. are we informed of these on the ACS... nope ..se ducts u ducts never seen one in my life but i get tested on every 5 yr resit. We should be trained and tested on the changes in the previous 5 years ....rant over....

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

Good news mate se and u ducts are gone now it’s CFS now 👍🏻

@ginola602 9 ай бұрын

Well said ! and the Vertex flue ! whatever that is

@williamhoughton1484 9 ай бұрын

Brilliant Derek , Will give that a go tomorrow 😅

@carlreville7125 9 ай бұрын

If they have been trialing with British Gas it will be more about getting there engineers out the door even quicker on a so called service.

@roberttate4816 8 ай бұрын

Annual Inspection 😗

@willlomas2725 9 ай бұрын

Cheers fella .....

@richardhall8704 9 ай бұрын

Great video I used to experiment with this years ago but as said you have to maintain max rate would be useful at times

@cerealkiller4248 8 ай бұрын

I’ve done this for years, being commercial, a building like a swimming pool will run 24/7, 365 days of the year. I could switch the boiler off and sit there for hours and still not get a 2 minute run time. So, rather than not rate at all, I do make a note of the reading at 1 minute.

@farukadam1696 9 ай бұрын

Good video

@carlfisher5195 9 ай бұрын

I read the TB last week and it seemed to me, that this is about cutting down on CO2 output and gas usage by 50% when gas engineers are gas rating... Oh well.. what ever.. one minute it is then.. We'll soon be at zero CO2 guys... !! 😂

@plumbertime 8 ай бұрын

Can’t believe British Gas blagged them on that

@Jehannum2000 8 ай бұрын

What's one minute less gas usage per annual service compared to a year's usage? About 0.001 percent?

@davidkelly455 9 ай бұрын

After doing all this for years I'm starting to think most of it is money making bs

@adrianoxenham362 9 ай бұрын

Gas safe are a law unto themselves. They change their minds as often as their underpants.

@jonathanlake6053 4 ай бұрын

They have got to justify the costs of the 5 yearly by moving the goal posts.

@alan_edwards_404 9 ай бұрын

Mr Combi app you can reduce to 1 minute, makes sense to me especially if customers are turning down all trvs, nothing worse boiler cutting off half way throgh gas rate

@stevenyates6732 9 ай бұрын

Pressing buttons is all about timing and can add to errors, not reading from a dial

@GeorgexxxWalker 9 ай бұрын

Derrick, please hear my confession! Ok, hands up; I've only been timing for 1 minute for years after basically doing exactly the same tests as you Derick. On metric meter only though. I don't feel so bad now that I've confessed 😊 Chris Walker CGas Ltd

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

🤫

@peterhyatt6751 8 ай бұрын

🚓🚓🚓

@SuperWayneyb 9 ай бұрын

🤘😎🤘

@user-vc6ln7zo7x 9 ай бұрын

Can you do a video how to service a cooker . Is service a cooker and hob the same

@k20aa 9 ай бұрын

Omg the amount of 1minutes i have wasted due to gas safe

@Ian20232 9 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

@markcliff9923 9 ай бұрын

Excellent info again Derek, how are the teeth bedding in by the way?

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

Still feeling like I have red rums teeth in my mouth 😂👍🏻

@markcliff9923 9 ай бұрын

@@tomkatgastraining At least you don't look like the Vicar Dick Emery used to do 😆😆

@johnward5006 9 ай бұрын

Like many installers I've taken readings at 1minuite and at 2 minutes and compared the results. Same with Imperial meters,.5 and 1cu.ft It's just to ensure I haven't made a silly mistake. With "smart " meters, I look to do more than one 2min. test to confirm the figures!

@peterreid4567 9 ай бұрын

I had a gas safe inspection a few weeks ago. I asked the accessor about saying people gas rate for one minute. Then double. He said no way there a a few reasons why it must be two minutes.

@CoolMusicToMyEars 5 ай бұрын

I am a retired UKAS Electrical, Temperature & Pressure Calibration engineer, I would have performed a 1 minute test from cold, then a 2 minutes test from cold then see IF there's any difference, just curious, if by not letting the system run for a while might indicate a difference due to heating up say from 20°C taking the New Standard as a test 1 minute without performing a 2 minutes warm up 🤔 there might be a difference then ? In the past serviced & Repaired Kane Instruments Boiler Analysers,

@tomkatgastraining 5 ай бұрын

I have spoken to the guy who came up with the timings for gas rating. He said the only reason they made it 2 minutes long was because of the E6 meters. He said because it was a digital reading they couldn’t get it accurate unless they ran it for 2 minutes. He said temperature only made a minuscule difference.

@BABYCHAOS26 9 ай бұрын

We gas rate loads of systems that’s got 8/10mm minibore choked up within an inch of its life, you can barely get 30 seconds out of some them before they cut out. It’s a bloody nightmare.

@don1estelle 9 ай бұрын

what's your estimate of Percentage U6 or older meters that are still in use! a few years ago one place I was working had a problem with the gas and the Board found a Victorian meter in the Seller it was lacking a bit to much!

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

Hard to say with gas suppliers wanting smart meters now but my last 3 houses had them

@craigcogley5071 8 ай бұрын

I have wondered for years now why we gas rate modern HE boilers at all, as you can't adjust the gas rate? All you can do is adjust the ratios, so if your ratios are right then your gas rate is right. Thoughts on this?

@tomkatgastraining 8 ай бұрын

For me it’s the other away around. Correct gas rate correct ratio. Gas rating tells you if the appliance is over gassed or under gassed which is very important to help stop an unsafe situation. Also you shouldn’t change the ratio on a boiler unless you are converting from Nat gas to lpg or the other way around this is now in the unsafe situations igem/g/11. Also you adjust the gas rate all the time with modern boilers even turning the flow temperature down or up adjusts the heat input also range rating the boiler will do the same.

@johnridley1038 9 ай бұрын

Is that an Imperial minute or a metric minute?

@S.Trades 7 ай бұрын

Hi Derek, im wanting a combi boiler moved from the loft, down to the kitchen, on ground floor. Would that cause any boiler problems? Would you see any issues with that?

@tomkatgastraining 7 ай бұрын

Depending on the age of the boiler I would always advise to change the boiler for a new one because old boilers don’t travel well.

@S.Trades 7 ай бұрын

@@tomkatgastraining its 5-6 years old. Not old. But ty. 👍

@TasmanianDevil22 9 ай бұрын

How would warming up a burner change the flow rate of gas to the burner? Not a dig, just a question. Got my ACS in November.

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

Heat creates expansion

@necropig 9 ай бұрын

If it's working out the same the one benefit is fuel wastage is reduced by half now.

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

That’s why they say it could be reduced

@grannyring 9 ай бұрын

Time in Sec for 0.01m3 Calculations 386÷Sec =kw Gas rate combis in around 15secs Test above would yield 386÷120= 3.21kw Close enough for me

@BABYCHAOS26 9 ай бұрын

We were always taught 38.6 was the CV of natural gas. Don’t suppose it makes much difference like.

@Ivan.Atanasov. 9 ай бұрын

My best guess is they want to reduce the co2 in half during the rating

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

They say it’s all about saving the customer water and gas during this energy crisis we are having

@tonygard1424 9 ай бұрын

😂

@johncummins3860 10 күн бұрын

What if the gas ring injector is partially blocked ?

@tomkatgastraining 10 күн бұрын

@@johncummins3860 what about it not sure what you are getting at

@Lutonman2010 9 ай бұрын

Gas rating has become a bit of a joke in recent years. Our compliance officers will give you a black mark if your gr isn’t within 10% under and 5% over. Even though the only TB that I can find says this is just an industry acceptable standard. I can’t find anywhere in the actual regs that it mentions these figures. We are told that outside of this we must AR the boiler. But the recent trend has been for builders to put 35kw combis in tiny houses and flats. You run every tap full rate and can’t get 35kw. My argument is well where is the risk? You say it’s AR so tell me what’s dangerous? No answer. Also you can take the same boiler on LPG and there isn’t even a meter to gas rate yet it’s deemed safe, but you’d fail an inspection with exactly the same boiler on a meter if you didn’t gas rate it. It’s a complete shambles and needs completely re writing to say that an engineer should be able to use their judgement. I’ve had to AR 30kw combis running at 26.90 that are working perfectly on perfectly sized pipework with perfect working pressures. It’s a complete nonsense. About time GS actually allowed us to behave like adults and use our years of engineering judgment.

@tomkatgastraining 9 ай бұрын

You are correct there is no regulation on the 5 and 10 % it was just brought in for trainees with no engineers judgement. The appliance is not AR if it’s out only if it is affecting the safe operation of the appliances or another appliance.

@Lutonman2010 9 ай бұрын

@@tomkatgastraining I completely agree with you. I’m not even convinced that despite what TB says about putting a boiler in to max rate using the service function is necessarily correct either. As I think if you run every tap in the house you’ve created the maximum real world demand that appliance can ever expect so you have in fact gas rated at max rate. But it’s such a grey area people like me just tow the line cos to be honest there’s no point in arguing. Same as range rated glow worms. They’ll be set to say 18kw for a particular property. But gas rate at 30kw when in max service mode. But can’t actually achieve that in normal operation. Gas safe need to once and for all clarify all this stuff. Cos big businesses have entire departments enforcing this stuff and I’m convinced half of it is actually BS.

@roberttate4816 8 ай бұрын

8 annual inspections a day = 8 minutes a day x5 days = 40 minutes a week x thousands of service engineers = more efficiency /profit 🧐

@plumbertime 8 ай бұрын

@@Lutonman2010 The rules are for what the boiler can do not the system you put it on. Could argue why fit such a big boiler. Also just because a boiler is rated down maybe in the future it gets rated back up. Best would be for engineers to just fit correctly sized boilers

@hvaccuffingit6471 7 ай бұрын

Maybe it should be an instant non compliance if the boiler is oversized and does have the building notification present when a gas engineer comes to carry out work on it. You spend the day filling out warnings to tick boxes🤦🏻‍♂️ You don’t get to gas rate much on commercial as it’s got all sorts running off the same meter🤨