Being a person raised with two moms in the early 90's when that was unheard of , & now being an adult , in my personal experience i can say a child needs to be raised by a mother & a father. The nuclear (mother & father) family is pivotal . This doesn't mean i lacked any love or nurturing , but i missed out on what a father bring to a table. Love that this conversation is being had regardless of someone's stance on it.

Jordan you are looking very healthy. I’m enjoying watching your journey.

Jordan always makes me cry. Every realization I’ve gained from his perspectives are deeply ingrained within me and I’m forever grateful for this mans life.

Personally speaking (as a gay man), I would never intentionally deprive a child of their mother. The mother/child relationship is the only constant relationship throughout time and culture. And even though my mother was a traumatised crazy person, I’m still great full I had a mother.

On the breast feeding and intelligence point: Dave said he has two freezers for breast milk because they’ve done their research but it may not be just the breast milk nutrients alone that causes the increased IQ points but also the nurturing/closeness that occurs during breast feeding.

I would love to see you two have this talk again in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, and 20 years

Whether you are a proponent of gay marriage or not, you have to respect Dave's attitude and willingness to discuss this. Same to Jordan. Whether you agree or not, you shouldn't hate the other person, but rather be willing to listen and discuss. Props to both.

How a bsolutely WONDERFUL to listen to these men talk about something so difficult without arguing and becoming angry and bitter. This is awesome . Love both of these men.

A child is always going to have a longing in their heart for their biological parents. A healthy mother and father is the best thing for a child. Hands down.

"You're not truly mature until you have someone in your life who is more important than you are." True wisdom so rarely spoken

My experience being raised by two dads. My biological mom is my dads sister me and her are very close and i have four sisters one was adopted before the rest of us was born. My parents are professionals and gave us an amazing life. One dad is a nurse the other one a maths teacher at university. We lived and live better than most people I know. My dads have been together for 28 years but got married in 2015. So it’s pretty stable one one dad was bad cop the other was good cop.

My daughter and her 3 young sons just moved in with us. (she fled an abusive relationship) I hadn't seen two of them in like 3 years and I never met the youngest. But I can attest that children are sensitive to people that are sensitive to their needs. The father was obviously abusive but mom is struggling and is disconnected on some levels with the children. (she is in counseling) however, the boys are thriving because my husband and I are plugged in. Discipline through love. They are happy and secure. I will continue to support her recovery and pray the father gets his crap fixed. The boys need both parents. But I will be damned if those children will go back to living their former lives. As one Christian woman to another God does not want us to stay in abusive relationships. Long-lasting relations aren't always happy ones.

I'm not sure if I am going to watch this whole conversation... JP has talked so much about parenting and the importance of mothers being home for young children... But Dave is his friend and I'm not sure JP will push back against a couple bringing a child into a mother-less home. Is it ok to use a womans body to carry and birth a baby, and then take that baby and put it in a home with no mom? Perhaps JP will say that if one partner is motherly then it's ok. Idk. Certainly children have grown up without moms before, or without dads. But usually that's circumstantial. Should we intentionally bring children into the world into that situation?

I still cannot live at peace with the fact that we've reduced women and men to sperm donors/ egg donors/ pregnancy carriers/ breast milk makers... With all due respect to what Dave said I wonder if he would have the "luxury" to choose a surrogate mother from a variety of women if no money was involved. In fact, very few countries allow paid surragacy and even in the permissive, highly egalitarian Scandinavian countries it's illegal. We will never know the truth about how it affects children because all academic research is biased to prove that gay parents are just as good as a mother and father. That said, I appreciate these honest people, Jordan and Dave, who discuss these tough issues in a sincere way.

I really enjoyed listening to this conversation! I think you two nailed it on the head. Being a straight, white, christian female, I've never been quite sure what my political ideas are about gay marriage (whether it should/shouldn't be legal). I've always leaned towards thinking it should be legal, but more because of the argument against govt having too much power, or because not everyone should be forced to follow Christian ideas. However, you nailed it. Everyone needs an ideal to look up to,and the opportunity to come as close as they can to that said ideal. Otherwise people will simply focus on themselves and their own desires, which may have caused a lot of the breakdowns in society today. None of us can reach the ideal....but it's necessary for us to all have the opportunity to see how close we can come to it. Besides, not everyone who has a mom and a dad are nurtured and loved. Simply HAVING a mom and a dad isn't enough. They both have to care and be nurturing. They both have to put the childrens needs above their own. And sadly, many kids who DO have a mom and dad, are still being neglected. So many heterosexual parents are completely fallen from the ideal as well. Surrogacy is a whole other issue. As an objective idea, I don't agree with it because you are denying the child's need of a mom and a dad. However, though it's not the ideal situation,there are SO MANY children who have no families, I do think gay couples should be allowed to adopt. But as all straight adopting couples,they should put the needs of the child above their own. Blessings to you both 💗

I wish all people had wisdom to discuss important issues in such a civilized and respectful manner: exchange of experience and knowledge, logical thinking, empathy, the desire to really understand the problem and find ways to solve it. These conversations are priceless.

Well this is going to be interesting. On a side note, Jordan is looking very healthy. Glad to see him doing well. God bless you.

I think an even more important conversation underlies the gay parenting one, and that would be the ethics of SURROGACY.

Not being able to have children after completing my physician training obligations was a very disturbing and difficult situation for me. No longer is it taboo for women in medicine to have children during training. During my career, I hope I had a strong impact about this issue for the multitude of female medical students and residents who came for training at a major teaching medical center in Boston. I also find peace in helping my siblings out by interacting often these 30 years with my nieces and nephews. Rescuing dogs and cats have also been part of my therapy. Anyone who wants but could not have children can have a great life.

As a fairly recent switched to conservative gay man, this has been the most helpfully enlightening and cementing of the thoughts and fears I’ve had about where I fit in society as a conservative gay man and the issue of ideological grooming/butchering of children. Thank you so much Dave and Andrew… the work your both doing is paramount to saving our country and society as a whole.

It is not just the eggs, Dave. Women carry babies for around 9 months in their bodies paying a big price in terms of their health and sharing nutrients from their own bodies. The levels of stress that women may experinece during their pregnancy also impact whether certain genes get triggered in fetus itself. Higher levels of stress in a pregnant woman= significantly higher probability of health and development related issues. There are multiple studies available that show this link. So it is not just sourcing the egg for fertilization but also growing developing that egg in the womb.

They mentioned that there's a connection that a child has with their biological parent which is hard to describe. But then they didn't extend that to the biological mother. You can't erase the fact that those kids will, in reality, have a biological parent out there, in the world, that they are connected to biologically, but have no contact with. I believe that matters Edit: Just to clarify, there's a contradiction here, which is that biological relatedness is so important that a gay couple should pursue this way of having kids. But at the same time, the biological relatedness of the resulting child to the biological parent that won't be in their life is regarded as not important. That's the point. Either it's important, or it's not. If it is, then you're taking the child away from a parent. If it's not, then why pursue this? Why not just adopt?

That was painful.... On one hand I admire Jordan's open, non judgemental style, but fully embracing surrogacy for rich and famous is something else. Basically, if you have enough money, you can "create" children and redefine family to your liking, and call yourself a hero, right? There is something deeply troubling with this type of mindset, I think.

As an Australian I have absolutely no idea who you are, but it appears to me that you will make a much better parent than many, many people I see in the world around me.

Children don't like shifting primary caregivers...I can attest to that. I've been a nanny in many different types of households. One thing in common, the kids all had behavioral issues. Well, except one family where the mom was working from home and they knew she was there for them. My heart breaks for kids who see mommy leave for a job that she doesn't actually need.

I wonder myself as a mother of 4 and currently nursing my 4 month old what that lack of connection might mean for a baby. Even if I don't always produce milk. my baby still nurses for comfort constantly. It's how he knows he is warm and safe because mommy is here. He actually begins to smile when he knows he is about to nurse and it calms him right down. Another thing as a mother I truly believe babies only need their mother. Children can need both but babies need mother. Mother is an infants entire world. They know only her...smell, taste, voice... Yes a mother is a baby's universe.

Surrogacy seems very dystopian to me. And it’s just the fact that you know it’s not coming from your partner, even if my prospective wife was unable to have children I still wouldn’t relegate that task for another woman to fulfill, it just feels immensely wrong, unethical, and emasculating even.

This is a great example of how to have a conversation about a challenging topic without bringing ideology into the mix. It is this type of level-headed, logical exploration that will bring us back from the current political morass.

Thank you for these tough conversations. I'm a gay woman who loves kids but I don't think it would be good to raise a child without a father. I just think two women would smother the child and maker her/him soft. The lgbt community needs to stop pretending that science and gender differences aren't real. We need to wake up and talk about the truth..Not Lil nas x videos. I personally think that God made the good gay and trans people to be extra caregivers, mentors and artistic geniuses. Think about how many great works of music, literature and art wouldn't exist without gay minds. Our solitude and outsider lifestyle helps make us who we are. I'm happy that society is more accepting but I wouldn't change who I am for anything. God bless you Dr. Peterson. Congrats on the baby Dave! I'm happy for you. I'm just expressing my personal opinion for my own life on choosing to not have kids.

40:18 "If they are [ideal] then the ideal isn't high enough, because an ideal should be something that beckons to you from the distance." "It's not something that's right there in front of you for you to grip." -Jordan B. Peterson I loved that!

Jordan, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for what you do. I’m in my late 30’s and just finding out the wife and I can’t have children. I am very much feeling the things you talk about. I don’t want to adopt and can’t find words for why. It’s been a largely soul crushing time and these sorts of talks do help, if for no other reason, to at least obtain a reference point for where I am. So thank you again.

One of the most fascinating conversations I've ever heard. Two incredibly articulate intelligent and interesting men having an open conversation. The world needs more of this.

This is too much like buying and selling humans to me from the child to the surrogate mother, etc. People are not commodities. Children are a gift, not a right, and deserve to be raised by their biological mother and father in a committed, loving relationship. While families do not always live up to these standards, it should be the expectation and ideal. While single parents or same-sex couples may try to fill the need for care a child needs, they will always be lacking, and it should not be a situation that is voluntarily created.

I have a friend who was given up for adoption at four months by a mother who badly wanted to keep him. Though he was adopted by a wonderful, loving family, he yearned to be reunited with his biological mother. He finally met her again when he was 53. He told me that he knew her smell, he knew the feel of her skin and he knew her voice before she spoke. The point is, there is more between a baby and his/her mother than we know and should that connection be disregarded to satisfy the wants of adults who want an instant family? Kids aren’t a possession. This conversation is a minefield that is dressed up as something that can be intellectually navigated. I don’t have the answer any more than Dr. Peterson and Dave Rubin do but I do think it’s wrong to experiment with a child’s life.

True fatherhood means providing what’s truly best for a child.

I remember Jordan saying something along the lines of "you can celebrate having a woman in the supreme court but at the same time you cant acknowledge what a woman actually is" and that you cant have both. Having a fridge full of breast milk and a nurturing attitude doesn't make you a mother. It's not like they are adopting. This guy is literally going out of his way to make sure a child is born without having a mother for the sake of his own lifestyle.

I had a child with a lady, she struggled with some of her own demons and decided what was best for the child was to give up the baby. Her mother stepped in and took care of him with me. He knows his grandmother as mumma, and he knows his biological mom as his mother. He understands the difference now even at 5 years old. His grandmother is everything to him. He still enjoys seeing his biological mom but is not very attached.

I think we need to address the trauma a baby feels being separated from it's birth mother. If couples want to adopt -great! But just because babies can't later remember their birth, it does still shape their first impressions of the world and makes a subconscious impact. I've helped people in therapy specifically work through this anxiety and fear of abandonment. And having worked in drug rehabilitation centers, I know that almost half of the kids of our facility were adopted as children. Most of them grew up not knowing they were adopted -yet it obviously had an emotional impact! And these kids all came from wealthy families with all the best resources. Babies in the womb know their mother's scent, voice and heartbeat. If that child is never held by it's mother and handed to a new couple - it's still going to instinctively know that mother is missing - gone! Choosing that when you don't have to is creating new suffering in the world. I think you can only believe surrogacy is an act of love out of total ignorance.

Two wonderful people having an honest conversation is all I ever asked for.

The fundamental problem with gay parenting is that it will become the "newer, better" form of parenting, just as trans-women are now a "newer, better" form of women and all deviations from traditional marriage (divorce, SSM, et al) are now viewed as "newer, better" lifestyles. Every social innovation must be asserted to be somehow superior to the status quo, or it will fail to be accepted. However, whenever a social standard becomes redefined for the benefit of an elite few, it must naturally cease to serve its intended purpose for everyone else.

Dave, after giving birth and I was lactating, my milk would come in with just the mere thought of my baby or saying the word baby. Children need a warm, loving mom. Im not saying a man doesn't love his child, but 10 men can't replace a mother.

I am THRILLED to see JBP back in TOP FORM leading the way through complicated conversations. Thank you ❤️

What a warm, refreshing , honest and vulnerable conversation. Thank you Jordan and Thank you Dave. I myself diverge some, whilst still loving the individual, due to my Biblical exhortations. Thank you again.

As a newly conservative gay man, I really appreciate this kind of exploration of responsibility and meaning that can be applied to my life. I'm grateful that i can confirm that becoming a parent was the most meaningful thing I could have done with my life, and have done so by adopting my nephew who was in need of that. THANK YOU JORDAN PETERSON! You've helped me more than I can say.

I think more research is needed on the impact on children being raised by gay parents. Especially since more gay couples are deciding to raise children. I knew a girl raised by Lesbians and she's been in therapy most of her life to this day. I don't think having babies should be a right, we are raising a very confused society.

Rubin happily advertising genetic engineering to accommodate aesthetic preferences. Truly the mark of a great parent.

Egg donor = product Surrogate = product Child = product

This conversation is so important to have in this generation of yearning to preserve the value of family between a father and a mother in the life of our children.!!!🤔🤔🤔

I have such deep respect for this conversation. I myself raised my grand daughter from 6 months to the age of 7. That last year she longed for a “normal” family, a mother and father. She was blessed in that her father remarried and was able to provide this for her. The normal family, male, female, is likely to always be normal. You are mapping this out. I do not envy you the road ahead. You think you can deal with whatever the world throws your way. But when you child says “I want a normal family,” that’s hard. I put her in play therapy. Because while she was excited about the normal family, she was torn about leaving me. Play therapy works wonders. You have much wisdom, my friend, and with Jordan Peterson as a resource I think you will draw a very clear map for those who follow.

Major credit to two brave people for having a truly difficult conversation. I respect and admire both of you so much.

I have been raised by my mother after my biological dad refused anything to do with me and a step father who has threatened to kill me. It's high time we realise that the idea of a nuclear family (father and mother) is important but not always ideal. It doesn't always work honestly. It's the love that matters. What some of us need out here is the love regardless from whom. Anyway loved the discussion. Looking forward to more.

Thank you for the Truth in concerns regarding your journey in parenting, Ruben. 🙏🏽 Confrontation of Fears in Truth is the only way to be a healthy contributing member of society.

Every child needs a father and a mother period! It’s the way of the universe.

Imagine being a baby. All you've know for your entire life of 9 months is your mother. Her heartbeat, her voice muffled through flesh, her energy, her love, her hand on belly on you, her soft womb. You go through the birth process, the most wild otherworldly transition, just you and her. You are suddenly thrust into the world and where is she? Where is the smell and sound and heartbeat and skin and energy and love of the only human you know? The one you are primed in every atom of every cell to be held by in this moment, nursed by, adored by. You're thrust on to some strangers. Your primal body thinks your mother is dead. Thats what registers. Terror. Something is wrong. Where is my mother, my everything? You never feel, see, hear, taste your mother again. The most profound abandonment wound that will shape every aspect of you for the rest of your life. Surrogacy is not okay.

This is really interesting. As a product of two moms and someone who is conservative, I appreciated the complexity and nuance with this. And seeing Peterson in a different light was refreshing.

May there be more difficult topic discussions with such insightful and respectful chat. Thank you Jordan and Dave

There is a really interesting book on this topic called "Them Before Us" which I think is pretty important for Gay parents to read and consider. I am adopted and there are many things that I feel about my situation that I will never be able to share with my adoptive parents out of fear of hurting them. They didn't do it to me, and while I am grateful for my life, and I love my family which was ideal in every way, I still experience a deep sense of loss and this feeling of being rootless. When a child is brought into this world disconnected from a biological parent that is a loss, and those parents trying to raise those children would be well served to understand it as such and be sensitive to that since there child is unlikely to ever express it honestly with them.

As a mother of three, grandmother of seven, my gut went ping when I heard Dave say that they were hiring a night nurse. Night is a sacred time when babies experience us as their ultimate solace. Our voice, arms, warmth and the proximity of our beating hearts are foundational to establishing a baby’s spiritual and relational development. Dave and Dave, your boys will want you there! XO

What an honest insightful conversations. Dave, I admire your courage to discuss this and have this discussion with Jordan Peterson. It was so intense and relevant, truly enlightening and worth the time, heterosexual or gay.

This is a fantastic video. These men are two of my favorites to listen to.

Deliberately creating a baby to supply gay men with a child, separating the baby from its mother.. does not feel okay. It is too cruel.. and selfish.

The difference between adoption and IVF is that adoption exists to find the best parents for a child in need, IVF exists to fulfill a desire of adults to have children, who always miss one of their biological parents. They are made that way intentionally.

Important conversation, thank you for having it sanely. So reasonable. I'm traditional and realize the value and humane necessity of people such as Dr Peterson and Mr Ruben willing to explore this topic and related sub-topics. Well done! I thoroughly love and respect the ""mind of the heart" of both these men. This is where wisdom is found for the sake of truth and the preservation of the sacred takes place.

Basically Dave bought two human beings to keep his husband happy. I find surrogacy ethically wrong, regardless whether straight or gay couple uses it.

Surrogacy may "benefit" the "parents", but it is deliberately creating a child who will have a deep origin problem. We all naturally want to know where we came from, and that the origin connects us to security and love. No matter how much you read up about skin-to-skin contact, get in frozen breast milk etc, you can't replicate this. And in this case there's no mother, and bringing in some women to be around the baby doesn't fix that. I find this tragic

This conversation, whilst admirable in its spirit of cooperation and mutual respect, remains rooted in the American idea of self fulfillment. As is clearly outlined here, the issues and their possible solutions are the domain of the privileged and ultra rich. I am from Zimbabwe where most people depend on subsistence farming and the traditional family to be able to survive - and how Zimbabweans survive is how most people in the world survive (no freezers full of donated breast milk). It would be great to see a conversation like the above extrapolated to include the needs of the average world citizen rather than those of the elite, albeit a well meaning elite.

I just love Dave Rubin. He’s just so down to earth. So what if he’s gay, he doesn’t make that his main identity.

I am loving every minute of this. Great conversation

Kids need a mother and a father. Its like yin and yang (not to sound cliche). The two forces between the two constantly push against each other and create the perfect place for a growing baby. You NEED that balanced energy. Most of the issues in our society stem from an imbalance of this family energy that the child didnt receive and is struggling to take control over through force, manipulation and other things. Life doesnt have to be perfect. But we do need to be aware of what perfect would look like, and I think the conversation is slowly moving away from reality toward some sort of "accept every weakness as the new normal" but we just cant do that, respectfully. Love you Dave. Glad to see Dr. Peterson on DW. Thanks for the tough but thoughtful discussion.

Dave seems like a nice guy with good intentions and this was a great chat. I just never seem to feel comfortable when people talk about mixing and matching eggs and sperm and having surrogates and choosing a mother 'like it's tinder' and all that, it just feels so unnatural to the point where I feel that it becomes a purely selfish act for the couple and they are not considering how the child will feel having been created that way.

I just started watching the video so I don't know if this comes up later lol. But from reading some of the comments, all I can think about is straight couples who have children but then divorce or seperate, or if you grow up in an environment where your parents aren't present. This can happen regardless of sexual orientation where the mother abandons the child or the father abandons the child, and if you have an uncle or an aunt or another family member to help out that's better than nothing. It also makes me think about the whole concept of adoption and the fact that adopted children often never get to be with their actual mothers and fathers. But there are so many family dynamics involved for me to really say one way is better than the other, because a gay couple who loves their child and is there for them throughout their lives is much healthier than a straight couple who abandons them.

This was a wonderful, honest and responsible conversation. I, myself, have been exploring the nuance and consequence of this issue. It is very nice to hear these ideas and add them to my own. Thank you gentlemen. William The MIDWAY Project

As a 39 yr old mother of 7, this video kept me up last night. I couldn’t help but weep as I thought of the tragedy of surrogacy. After watching Allie Stuckey’s shows detailing the industry, it confirmed my misgivings about the ethics. I completely understand the desire to have children and the joy that you are aware they will bring. But as I hear Rubin admit that they have no idea how this will turn out, I can’t help but recognize that these two sweet babies are an experiment of two men’s desires. I am praying for these two babies who have been orchestrated by man, to be born at the same time, from two different women, who they will not be held and nursed by. No amount of preparedness can replace the mother and infant relationship. I type this all with a heavy heart.

Please turn on "include automatically generated subtitles/captions". It allows for searching for quotes in the video (using the transcript and Ctrl+F) and helps many people follow along via being able to read the captions while listening. It also helps deaf people.

I'm a Jesus lover and He is all about love. I definitely believe in the nuclear family. However, big respect to Dave Rubin and his husband! You respect the nuclear family and want what's best for your children. You both are doing what you can to provide as much of a well balanced life of love, health and happiness. I respect the commitment and love for kids ❤️ Blessings to you both and your new family!

A mature father wants what’s best for his child, not what’s best for himself.

I was raised in a gay family. My father (biological) and my papa (not biological) did a beautiful job. This was way before gay marriage was even thought possible. They did an amazing job. So proud of both of them.

The West’s decimation of the sacred bond and institution of motherhood. Reducing motherhood to being an egg donor and night nurse. The cognitive dissonance of American conservatives in normalising this while at the same time arguing against gender ideology is staggering.

As Matt Walsh would say: "What is a marriage?" or "What is a family?" Either there are objective realities to these words or everything is relative and the Left is right.

When my kids were grown, I unexpectedly ended up with two step grandkids. I was a widow by then, and had minimal finances, but took them in anyway. I always loved them like my next breath and did the best I could. I don’t think there was any other safe option, and I would do it again. No, it wasn’t perfect, but it was safe and loving.

As a mother, Dave just unknowingly elaborated how essential I am. Thank you. He and his spouse have to collage different individuals to do what I do naturally. Motherhood cannot artificially be simulated... not matter how much you try. I wish you Dave the best of luck on your journey... I hope to hear from your kids in future to get their take from this experience. Much love and blessings 🙌🙏❤️

I like Dave Rubin and I was so surprised at my immediate negative reaction to this. What got me the most was hearing about the night nurses, the caretakers and the freezers full of breastmilk. As a mother of a toddler, the struggles of raising a baby are very fresh in my mind. I am sure many mothers are familiar with the severe sleep deprivation, troubles breastfeeding and/or pumping (and self loathing as a consequence of that), not to mention the extreme physical feat of pregnancy, birth and post-partum recovery. He is making it sound like they will be outsourcing all these hardships to a small army of women, while still feeling self-actualized and passing on their genetic material. If reproduction was a game, they are playing with cheat codes.

I love it when two individuals can sit down and respectfully discuss a difficult subject; we need more conversations like this in our world! That said, marriage has the most 'promises' and the fewest 'pitfalls' when we do it the way God intended: between a man and a woman. "The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ...By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners." ~ The Family: A Proclamation to the World

I love that after a couple years I just now finding out Dave is gay. That’s how it should be. He doesn’t make it about him or his sexuality it’s about being a good person. Love it. Go Dave

Wow, this is more than conversation. It's a genuine moment of profound inspiration. There is an unusual intimacy in this type of content which will be the last nail in the coffin for "legacy media".

Such a deep conversation. One thing that can’t be replicated are the chemical reactions and bio information passing between mother and child. For example, my lactation nurse told me that while breastfeeding, the child’s saliva enters the breast and informs the mother’s body of the nutritional needs of baby and other information is shared from baby to mother that way. Whether true or not, there are certainly biological systems at work between mother and child that cannot be replicated.

Dave Rubin is so patient with Jordan! Being raised in a straight family means nothing. Emotional stability and a loving family is everything.

I also wanted to add this - Dave, if you do happen to read these, please can I offer some advice - do not have multiple people bottle feeding your baby. The feeding process on the breast or otherwise is an integral part of the formation of the attachment with the primary caregiver in the first few months - If you want to replicate motherhood without a mother you should strive to recreate that intimate, primary caregiver bond. Even it if is bottle not breast it is best to keep all other elements as close to 'natural' as possible, including same persons providing the feeds, feeding close to the body, baby able to look at you (rather than outwards facing)

Yes, it is “crazy stuff.” Alarm bells should be ringing - the fact that Rubin can’t see how this whole process is wrong is alarming.

I have a question. The 5 IQ point for breastfed kids... is this related to spicifically being fed breast milk or is this intelligence increase related to the child creating a bond with the mother during breast feeding?

This was an outstanding conversation… I am the exception - I’ve known I would be the exception since I was 12 years old… There are some placed here on earth for the purpose of raising others children. Yes that sounds strange, but that is the purpose of foster care. To provide stability to others, where stability is lacking. That is no different for even in young adults.

What kind of ‘fatherhood’ purposely rips the newborn babe away from the warm and nourishing maternal embrace?

Hello Jordan. I have never written you before, even though I feel like I know you in a way. I first discovered you when you posted your "professor against political correctness" videos, as I was interested in the strange new phenomenas I saw rising, which you have adressed over the years. For years I have followed you online, read your articles, your two 12 rules-books. I have watched you live on stage, and was praying for your health during your period of sickness. Know that you're very much loved and appreciated. I think it was also because of you that I discovered The Rubin Report, which I've also watched a lot, and I think you're doing a very good and important job as well Dave (if you'll ever read this). I have a lot of respect for the both of you. What you're addressing in this talk has interested me, and is the issue I have with respect to gay marriage (namely children). I understand there are issues involved with missing out on the different roles which the two sexes usually bring to the family. It seems you're aware of this Dave, and that you've thought it through. I respect that. However, I do wish you two would have talked more about it from the perspective of the child. What's in the best interest of the child? What about the child's rights in all of this? I understand that what I'm about to say may sound harsh for you to hear Dave, but do know that I respect you very much. That I really love your show, your courage, and I love to hear you're happy with your partner, and wish you all the best together. I would love to hear your thoughts on what I have to say, so let's get to it. Doesn't the child have a naturally given right to grow up and receive love and care from it's actual/real parents, as far as that's possible? Let me try to explain more detailed. There is a big difference between giving children an adoptive family to remedy an unwanted situation for the child (not being able to get care from their own parents), and on constructing PLANNED fatherless or motherless children to create a family for people who because of the nature of the same-sex-union can not have children naturally themselves. This is a completely different "box" than what feelings the adults may have for the child, or what caring ability they may possess. Coherence is important when rights are derived from biological law. Biology and genetics say something basic about where we come from, who we are, and what opportunities we have. Biology shows us connections that should be fulfilled so that a fair balance between strong and weak in nature is not disturbed. A justice that is about granting the individual what he/she is entitled to. Children are necessarily born as a result of the union between a male and a female gamete. These will basically belong to a specific man and a specific woman, at least as long as we do not start tinkering with the genetic material. The child has - for this reason - a natural right to know its origin, its family, and receive care from its own parents - as far as this is possible. This reservation is about securing the child's rights, and applies to unforeseen cases where parents fall out or die, do not have the opportunity to provide the care which the child needs. The reservation is NOT about securing adult parental rights in situations where the child is intentionally denied one or both biological parents. The purpose of biological parenting thus primarily has the best interests of the child in mind: It must provide for the weakest need of care, to provide for the safest possible upbringing. Thereafter the biological parenting is about the parents' happiness, but this is achieved through responsible exercise and management of one's own biological preconditions, and by setting aside selfish inclinations to meet the child's need for closeness, belonging, unconditional love, security. It is a short-circuit to believe that the reverse is the case - that children's purpose is to fulfill and secure adults "needs" to become parents, and thus be at the mercy of adults that require the child's natural rights to be overridden. Children are a gift to parents. Children can not, and should not, be objects we can claim, buy, or construct across all biological laws. I don't think women's and children's bodies should be considered as merchandise. And what about the bond that the surrogate mother and the infant have created after nine months? Isn't it traumatic for the infant to break this?

I love Dave. I can’t help but to be bothered that children will be without a mother.. the reason breast milk is so important is the milk is specifically made for the baby. If a mom comes in contact with a virus, the milk will make antibodies for babies within 24 hours. (I’ve also read 30 minutes). My child is breast fed, and when I work once a week, my mother in law can hardly calm my child down at the end of the day because the baby just wants to be cuddled to me and nurse. It’s a comfort thing. I know Dave and his husband will be great parents, but there’s just something about mothers.

This conversation made me really sad, as a single woman who wants a spouse and a child. I wouldn't resort to any unnatural or suboptimal measures to have a child on my own (e.g., sperm donation, a casual relationship) so I am waiting to meet the right person. I'm deeply religious and that limits my options greatly, so i'm risking never having the opportunity. From this conversation, it would seem people like me who have never been parents are the immature ones. It's good this couple is getting what they wanted (though at a steep cost especially to the children), but there is a real sadness for those of us who won't compromise our convictions for personal gain. We are not lacking in maturity!

Dr. Peterson, advocate of morals, values, my respect for you plummeted. Sure am glad I didn’t have parents of the same sex. My larger issue is with taking the surrogate route instead of adopting an orphan. This was a very disturbing video and completely ruined my perception of the host.

I was a student rotating through CAMH at the time when Dr. Zucker was embroiled in controversy. It was very sad -- he was meant to give a talk to to students at the University of Toronto, and there a was a massive uproar (from a minority of loud voices) who put out a petition to get him cancelled. They accused him of all sorts of things like practicing conversion therapy (not true) and transphobia. In the end his lecture was cancelled. There is no room for diversity of thought. Dr. Zucker's goal was to give people the time to become comfortable in the bodies they were given. He was fired shortly after. This will be a stain on mental health and medicine going forward.

I honestly think a child needs a mother and a father. Good conversation.

As a gay man myself (one that really respects and admirers Dr. Peterson) it’s one thought that haunts me constantly to really wish children of my own someday and the dilemma of not being able to generate them naturally with my partner and, if indeed we do have children, creating a somewhat not traditional family unit. I’m still fairly young and do not(and cannot financially) consider to form a family right now or for some years yet. Nevertheless I struggle with this constantly. It was really helpful to see Dr. Peterson creating the space for such conversation

This is a fantastic discussion and needed to be done. Thanks to these two amazing men ❤