"you have to sit there and either the grappler messes up or you guess correctly and get away from them" -a baiken player with 50/50s.

Ever since I started playing zoners more often I've liked fighting grapplers a lot more, but that's kind of the easy way out. People who play rushdown characters likely hate grapplers the most as you need to get in, but grapplers punish you for getting in as that's what they want

One thing is consistent between this and Roofle's video on the subject: you hate fighting grapplers, because they work by tapping into your fear.

Actually I enjoy fighting grapplers

4:03 Funny how Brolly in DBFZ has amazing zoning while still being a grappler, no wonder he is top tier

There's a few reasons why I love grapplers: First off, they're a surprisingly great way to learn a fighting game. As discussed, your standard grappler has very little movement tech, and a more linear game plan. This leads great to learning a fighting game as it gives you a clear goal on how to win and your lack of mobility is gonna force you to play defensively. You HAVE to learn to block if you wanna get anywhere with Grapplers. This helps to build the player's general game knowledge which will bring them a lot farther than just labbing combos will. Second, there's something just so primally satisfying about grabbing and throwing someone. It's hard to explain, but there's nothing else that feels more raw than picking up a motherfucker and slamming them face first into the dirt. It feels so intimate and so powerful at the same time as your opponent is at your mercy. Finally, the entire game plan of Grapplers is surprisingly accurate to what grappling fighting styles want to do IRL; and that's to end a fight as soon as possible. Grappling marital arts like Judo and Jujitsu aren't made to be big and flashy, they're made to incapacitate an opponent as quickly as possible. The biggest example of this is Brazilian Jujitsu. It's a style of Jujitsu that was invented by Helio Gracie, who was a man so chronically ill that he would get dizzy spells from running up the stairs. He took the style of Jujitsu and removed every unnecessary movement to make a style of grappling based off of leverage, timing and technique over strength. This allows anyone who learns it to take their opponents body and use it against them to take them down. Now, if we move back to Fighting games, there's some similarities here. Despite usually being built like shit brick houses, Grapplers are made to be patient and to use their opponents mistakes against them to dispatch a fight as quickly as possible. The philosophies of irl grappling and fighting game grapplers are actually quite similar, and a lot of people don't realize it. If we were to lose grapplers in fighting games, we wouldn't just be losing an entire archetype of play. We would be losing an extremely important representation of fighting and martial arts as a whole. I honestly wish we can get more grapplers that aren't built like brick houses to really show off these styles better.

So grapplers having 50/50s is not fine while rushdowns having them is fine? Nice

Leave us grapplers alone, you’re lucky we don’t mix paint into our glue every day to enhance our gameplay beyond mortal comprehension

A grappler video and NOT A PIXEL OF BEOWULF? He can combo. He can get in. Get out. He can even use his chair for zoning And if he command-grabs you where he wants it. You. Are GONE

Fighting game players when any other type of character predicts their opponent's moves and punishes them: "Omg, so based!" Fighting game players when a grappler does the same thing: "Fucking bullshit slot machine coin toss the sun was in my eyes I forgot to put on my lucky bracelet today no skill L + Ratio + No bitches."

People don't like grapplers cause THEY MAKE YOU WATCH when they grab you, making you realize you fucked up. Then they do it again and again. Laughing the entire time like mad men.

I don't see how a grappler being able to loop their pressure is a different animal to a rushdown character keeping you pinned under a 4 way mix. Is there a difference im missing? Do you think maybe you prefer dealing with zoners because they're the favourable matchup for rushdown in the archetypes RPS? (Or is it just that potemkin's massive hands fill your belly with fear? Its okay to be afraid of him, we all are).

Hate is not the word I would describe fighting grapplers. Hate incites anger, zoners incite anger. Grapplers incite fear, fear of screwing up. If anything, I would hate myself for screwing up my combo against a grappler, having 50% of my HP gone in one move and the other 50% in a 2nd hit combo

Something that I have noticed in my small personal friend groups is the overwhelming feeling of "I shouldn't have lost to the grappler, look how slow and clunky this character is" and losing despite feeling like you just shouldn't is a thing a lot of people don't deal with well.

"Can lead other players down a path of frustration and anger" -- Baiken player, 2023 Since you requested we not ask in Twitch chat, play Potemkin. Start by learning kara cancels and kbmf loops, then slowly descend into becoming one of us and lamenting abare options. We have one of the best character discords and cookies (the cookies might be a lie)!

Chipp v. Potemkin makes me smile. I can mix a pot player for 4 hours, have one jump read, and get my health bar depleted. It’s so funny even when I’m being hit with the funny moves.

As a grappler player (Mainly Gief Pot and King) this is accurate, I love seeing the fear of the many while they desperately flee from my big warm hugs….. and their shattered spine that comes with said hug but that’s a minor detail

Hello Grappler player here and i like doing the funny move :D also a grappler vs grappler match can be a fun experience because we both have similar tools and it's interesting to see how we try to outmatch each other. I also liked you video very well done.

Quick correction: Potemkin isn’t 250 lbs. He actually weights over 1,400 lbs. Quite frankly, it’s a miracle that he can even walk.

This is why I’m a grappler

It comes down to people disliking when they are forced out of their prefered playstyle. They can't play the same against Zoners and graplers as they do against most characters. I realy dislike the whole "keep them shit" aproach because it's inherently unfair to players who like those playstyles. No playstyle is inherently more important, the difference is simply the number of players who play basic bitch ass shoto or ungabung is higher so it's taken as "the correct way to enjoy the game". I'm an ungabunga rushdown Andy too but just imagine rushdown made intentionally dogshit to apease zoner players... sounds like shit, right?

The point you made about how different the game is is honestly what makes low level play so interesting to me. It's kind of like card games, seeing people using weird combos with a limited card pool vs people with all the staples and engine pieces. That's why I like to watch floor 1-3 replays too. Characters play radically differently down there and it nearly doubles the amount of "game" for me to explore, even if I'm not participating in it, except when trying to ease friends into the game.

This is a great video, I play Potemkin and have always been confused why people love fighting rushdown characters with unending looping pressure who get a ton of openings and use mix to achieve their win condition because it forces you to guess more and requires a lot of matchup knowledge to find punish windows. Their neutral can be interesting but like grapplers once they get in they have a pretty easy time staying in. Grapplers get a ton of damage but are extremely read based and have to use their fewer opportunities to blow opponents up - I feel about as satisfied reading my opponent as I do reacting to something but having to be stuck in Chipp hell in the corner or being forced to make guesses against Millia on wakeup feels kinda like dealing with garuda oki in the corner or getting 50/50d after a knockdown. I think people just get mad as hell when they get their pages flipped because punishing grapplers is easy, just don't get read.

Can confirm as a potemkin player I get a euphoric high when I grab someone and give em the bane treatment. Seeing my opponent back away in fear tickles me. Lol

You know, I feel Grapplers are misunderstood. People tend to think that they're villains. Big, bad bullies that shove you into a locker and take the healthbar your mom prepared for you. This is, however, wrong. Grapplers are not the monsters of our time, they're not the horror villains the media wants you to believe they are. Quite the opposite, Grapplers are the shounen protagonists of the fighting game genre. Every fight they walk in to, they know they start at a disadvantage. No game ever gave a Grappler a favorable round-start. And yet, they walk, always. As soon at the battle starts, so does the opponents relentless, cowardly scheming. Instead of meeting the Grappler head-on, they abuse weaknesses, goes for unseen angles, or run away and hide behind walls of projectiles. Cheating and tricks are the tools of evil, tools every Grappler must endure and overcome. Not with tricks of their own, but with determination, grit, experience and heart. The entire world stands against them, yet relent is never even an option. Instead, they lab, they work for what they believe in, they clench their fists, takes the beating so nobody else has to, sacrifice their own life with super armor, all to seize that one moment to put evil where it belongs. To the Potemkins, King of Dinosaurs, Iron Tagers, Cerebellas, Kings, Bowsers and Zangiefs of the world. You are not Jason Vorhees, Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers or Leatherface. You're All Might. You're Kazuma Kiryu. You're Kenshiro. You're Son Goku. Protecting what's important, with your own fists as hammers and your own chest as shields. Stand tall, and proud, Grapplers. As long as evil resides in online lobbies, there must always be a hulking giant, to grab it.

As a King player the "Whats it feel like to hit a command grab?" Segment had me in stitches! The PS2 Start up sound and psychedelic colors background was a perfect combo for how it feels to land a RDC in ranked

You don't like fighting grapplers because you think they are "cheating" by getting big damage with a single move while you spent all that time learning combos.

Okay, story time: When I was younger, I got Blazblue: Continuum Shift on the 3DS. I really liked the game, even though I had no idea how to play fighting games then and even now (somewhat). Just so happens my older brother was also a fan of the game. So one day we got to play it together. I didn't really have a main- closest main I had was Lambda-11 because I thought she was cool. My older brother mained Iron Tager, the local grappler. He was way better than me at the game. First match we did. Astral Finish. i've never been the same since Grappler players scare me.

I love fighting grapplers for the sole reason I am one of them

grapplers players are too honest for most people. they tell you exactly what they want to do to you at the pick screen, and somehow you still fail to stop them.

I play zoners so I LOVE fighting grapplers

Hating grapplers or not depends on 2 things and 2 things only: - The archetype the character YOU play (The player vs. the Grappler) falls into. (Shoto/All-Rounder, Rushdown, Zoner, etc) - Skill issue. Seriously, I've met more bad players that genuinely hate grapplers because they can't adapt than players that are good at the game despite the character they play.

As a grappler i would just like you to know I laugh like one of the hyenas off lion king every grab.

I love it when my friends complain about me powering through some of their best moves right before I kill them with the most aggressive hug known to mankind

The worst is fighting a grappler and not having combos. Imagine taking 40% from one move and every time you get a hit you only do 25%

As someone who likes Oonga Boonga characters in games (Anna in Tekken, Joker/Catwoman in Injustice, El Fuerte in SF4), I actually really like fighting Grapplers. They are always a constant vibe-check to my oppression and a good check of my overall neutral. Liking the "risky rushdown", Grapplers rely more on Neutral then me and it's always nice as well considering how rare they are *online*.

Damn the start just hits deep Great writing and video my guy!

I've never played a 2D fighting game, but I assume grapplers in those games are like King from Tekken or Astaroth from Soul Calibur? Like, fundamentally there's not a lot of difference between a command grab or a combo starting low. You still need to predict and respond appropriately. All fighting games are about mixups.

Amazing vid man love the content. Got me into fighting games.

I love watching your videos because sometimes i see something to do with baiken in the background and i notice its something i could implement into my gameplay, even during super random parts of the video

Can confirm that landing the big dumb grab gives me a massive release of dopamine. It's like a drug.

I love grapplers for the satisfaction of landing a funny grab, and for the conditioning you’re able to do. Which in turn leads to more funny grabs.

Man ur editing is top tier 🔥

this channel definitely deserves more subs.

The perfect video to watch during my dinner of elmers glue and Chipp main tears.

"Why You HATE Fighting Grapplers" Lack of skill, mostly.

4:03 their zoning? what zoning? Broly: *allow me to introduce myself*

I love fighting grapplers as a rushdown player, I think the fact that we both want to get in makes things interesting. Kind of like in boxing or MMA when both fighters agree to slug it out in the middle of the ring/cage and see who is tougher. Granted there is a lot of risk deciding to slug it out with a grappler but I think that is akin to the risk in fighting a big puncher and having to outmaneuver their heavy blows.

My favorite characters are always rushdown with a bit of grappling (in smash someone like falcon), I generally want to go fast but I really want to have that pressure be based more around hit grab mixup than just on hi low mixup

You have motivated me to try out manon and geif when sf6 comes out. Kekw

Hey Gekko! Probabily you know, but i will leave the suggestion here, Lord Knight made a video making a tier list of Fighting Games Archetypes. I find funny that sub archetypes change the names in some places lol, like you're calling the "Combo Grapler", while LK use the name "Pixie Grapler". Always when people talk to arechetype those things happen, and i alway be like: I wish i could now every single Acrhetype, even that is not even possible to tell since there are like archetypes exclusive of one game or franchise, but i would be glad if you could help me someday with that. Anyway, sorry if i wroted something not gramatcly acurat, english is not my first lenguage.

Cool vid but i don't think you really encapsulated why people dislike it, just that you think it's not fun - then sort of muddied the waters with lumping in oki on cmd grabs or just having a cmd grab being a defining factor. Sol, Bridget, Faust, Leo etc all have cmd grabs that put them in muchhhh better oki positioning than pot. Firstly, people who dislike are sometimes memeing. Some say it cos they wanna follow the trend after playing against like... one grappler their whole life. Outside of that... You sort of glossed over the concept of 'being predicable'. Thats what i think makes people hate them the most. That you can be predicted, and it makes you feel dumb. Getting hit by 3 PBs in a row hurts because you made 3 wrong guesses and think they've got you figured out making it feel like it's hopeless. The looping pressure isn't quite true either. Iirc, Gief SPD > dash > SPD isn't real and Pots PB > HF > PB isn't real on most ranges. Watch some itabashi or snakeyez matches and you'll see how good they make grapplers look because of reads and conditioning over Oki, setplay or whatever. Ultimately the only way you'll *fully* understand why people hate grapplers, and if their assumptions are true or false, is by actually playing as a grappler to see past the surface level stuff of slow buttons / slow walk speed / short combos. Etc.

As a grappler, fighting another grappler is the most fun thing in the world

This video reads mainly that you don't have enough reference points for grapplers, especially older ones.

USFIV Zangief with 4 bars is the most terrifying thing. EX green hand -> red focus -> ultra was very common to see

Lets Eat some Glue and start our Grappler career!

I don't mind most of the characters I use in alex in sf5 kof shermie and kod are grapplers and soon in sf6 manon though shes a combo grappler with a power up gimmick. Incinaroar is pretty fun to use. The only people who get pissed are the shotos, ungabungas and rushdown player because they have to chill and slow down.

I know it's an old argument but my issue with grapplers is not trying to prevent their win condition, it's having very specific ways to respond once they grab you. For instance, I was fighting a King player recently. He would use grapples but nothing game breaking until we'd end up always at 2 wins each with a tie breakint round. Which he'd then just tank hits and spam a grapple, or combo into it through my block then would do the endless rolling combo on the ground which could deplete my HP to zero regardless of where it started. I then proceeded to look up how to break it and learned that you cannot break that part; you have to accurately guess the initial grapple and hit the correct button at the exact right time to break before the roll happens. Once he starts rolling your can't get out and it's basically an automatic win. I decided I just won't ever rematch King players anymore in ranked. I genuinely cannot understand how this is a mechanic that can only be beaten if you spend tons of time practicing for that specific move or his other endless grabs and with only one response to each specific one. Combined with King having a great moveset outside of grappling it just doesn't make sense to me. I really only beat them but rushing them down

As a Julia main in Tekken I spam the absolute crap out of mad axes, It can be buffered out of everything tick throws, Backdashes, side steps. Her gameplan is different now but in Tekken 3 and tag 1 she had absurd damage from counterhit pokes so naturally you don't want to press buttons. That made her surprisingly large amount of throws even more scary (She also had a safe mid launcher to worry about so no ducking). I miss that Julia I know she's strong in T7 but it's not the same.

As someone who plays grapplers fighting against grapplers is the best

i think my biggest issue with grapplers is that they need WAY fewer interactions to win (ideally, anyway) and a lot of times you're caught in an animation that's just long enough to make me want to die. doesn't help that it's especially demoralizing to be like one or two frames off from linking a button and then BAM butterchurned into oblivion

I play Sol and Pot is my favorite matchup It's a true duel of the minds, three round of pure psychological warfare. No bullshit, no setplay, no 4 way mixup in the middle of an hour long blockstring Just me, my opponent, and the soil

The issue for both beginner and intermediate players is that fighting a grappler is a giant knowledge check. At a high enough level, players are able to deal with this knowledge check and it simply becomes a skill issue for the loser. But beginners often dont know how to stop someone from just walking at them. And more intermediate players probably know 1 way, but cant deal with the alternative: walking faster at them. I found playing Strive Potemkin was a breeze until around floor 8 where people started thinking. Its all one massive knowledge check.

Thunder in KI my beloved, I love how his Instinct is giving him the best dash in the game He goes from a damage truck to a damage truck with rocket engines attached

Watched this video with a friend and he had a panic attack during the intro. 10/10 vid

Hot Take: I find grapplers the most honest archetype. And I don’t even play them I just sympathize with them in regards to zoning. The more reliant a character is to zoning the less honest they seem to me.

Good video. Also, play Potemkin

"DNF Duel Grappler is a combo grappler" I mean, yes. He's just on the opposite end of the spectrum. He's not "I do actual combos and incorporate a command grab", he's "My combos *are* command grabs."

I tell you why fighting grapplers is frustrating, is cuz they require actual intelligence to play instead of game knowledge and reflexes. All of a sudden the game is not based on who knows more obscure mechanics or interactions, not on who knows more the combos and so has better damage and not who has better reflexes and can just react of he makes a mistake. All of a sudden is all based on predicts and tactics. Most fighting games play like single player. You interact just enough to get a confirm in neutral end then you are combining a dummy, and even in neutral getting that confirm os based on game knowledge, something that is inefficient to train trough trial and error ands so is studied trough wikis abd training dummies Grapplers force you to actually think, reinvent, and not just apply what you learned in training. Suddenly it's actually a multiplayer game and most people don't want to play that, they just want to play a combo simulator to feel cool when they fo a long and complicated combo, even at the cost of not being able to do nothing while getting combos themselves

As someone who plays millia… yes.

Surprised about the lack of mention of Blazblue's Iron Tager whose most damaging command grab is a reversal super and who can put a magnet effect on the opponent via a projectile (or some of his normals) to make his effective grab range the entire screen

how to fight grappler 1: do not leave fullscreen 2: do not go into the corner gg

your salt really improves the taste of this glue

Oh shit, the new valorant agent has a youtube channel!

The part where he monologues about nightmares and how “we’re so sure about the past and present” I got a shot of existential fear about “how do we KNOW about the past besides books and archives?” Just something I thought I’d share

As someone who gravitates to grapplers and zoners thank you for your service

Shout out to my favorite fighting game character, Beowulf from Skullgirls. Playing him is like snorting paint and running through a Walmart completely naked

Urdah from Rushdown Revolt is unique Grappler type she can wavedash like the rest of them but now can combo throw you multiple times even while in mid air yet is still balanced

“Surely he won’t throw rock a third time”

10:00 You're just... describing 50/50s and rps situations? Which good rushdowns and shotos also do all the time? Except grapplers have to actually touch you with a command grab to earn them. There wasn't really a rebuttal of the common argument "you're just mad because big number and they're making you play differently than you normally would" and in fact was felt just like a "yes in fact I do hate that." Idk maybe I missed something.

Here's a thing most non-grappler players are not aware of: The Grappler will ALWAYS hate you more than you hate the Grappler. Try as you might, your anger is perpetually impotent & misbegotten in comparison. So when we finally get in we become excited because then we can finally repay the tiniest fraction of the pain y'all put us through.

I love fighting grapplers! There's an easy secret, just play a grappler and suddenly they're fun to fight!

Let's appreachiet how this men putted together those words in intro:D

Was the green-screen Potemkin Buster at 1:40 something you made yourself or was it taken from somewhere?

So much command grabs, so much damage.

"this character plays different from me so myeh >:(" - every guilty gear strive player

I enjoy taking people for a ride.

i think it's funny that gekko think's 250 lbs is a standard weight for a traditional grappler

You need to think different when fighting these guy which is another fun thing about grappler

I AM the Grappler

I'm shocked you actually didn't make a tekken reaction video

I like fighting grapplers on the technicality that I play them myself and grappler mirrors are fun as hell

I love playing characters where you won't really know if you're gonna win or not. The characters where anyone who sees them will go "I got this" and then they get hit a couple times by the wrong moves and rage quit.

Take a shot every time he uses the Zangief EX Grab on Alex clip

i love them, they just :3

I love grapplers, so fun to play

Do you play KOF

How to fight: Zoners: Rush em. Grapplers: Jump Rushem. Puppet characters: Hit Puppet, Rush em. Rushdown: Range attacks, Rush em. Happy Chaos: Rush em. Do Not Wallbreak (Unless guarenteed kill)

The archetype you dislike depends on the archetype you play. I play some grapplers and I understand the hate, but when you play a setup rushdown character of course you hate grapplers because you cant just steamroll them like the other characters. Just like grapplers hate high mobility and zoners because it messes with the gameplan.

I only main zoners, so fighting grapplers is really fun to me.