Get All The Boost, Accurately | Open Loop Boost Control Tuning Guide

Рет қаралды 23,288

Күн бұрын

What is open loop boost control, and how is open loop boost control different to closed loop boost control? More importantly, how to we actually tune open loop boost control?
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Getting accurate and stable boost control in turbocharged vehicles can be challenging. In this webinar we’ll discuss why stable boost control is difficult in the first place and then we’ll see how to correctly set up an open loop boost control strategy using the Haltech Elite 2500.
Even though we're using a Haltech Elite to demonstrate 'Open Loop Boost Control' in this lesson, as always Andre is comprehensive in the knowledge he shares so that it isn't just specific to this ECU alone, it is merely a tool to help demonstrate and explain the principles. With that in mind, even if you are using a different platform, you will get value from this lesson.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Open Loop Boost Control Lesson Introduction (Hey mate!)
00:40 - Boost Control Challenges
6:10 - Open Vs Closed Loop
9:25 - What You NEED For Good Boost Control!
15:10 - What Affects Boost Control
17:15 - Basis Of A Great Setup
18:00 - Passive Open Loop Example
38:20 - Members Questions
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#highperformanceacademy #boostcontrol #openloop #efituning #learntotune #alltheboost #haltech #elite #boosttuning

Пікірлер: 45

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

Take $25 USD off ANY HP Academy course with this coupon: KZfaq25 Enroll now: hpcdmy.co/25offytc - Taz 👨🏻

@TheCarPassionChannel 2 жыл бұрын

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2035">33:55</a> people really underestimate the importance of boost-by-tps. It completely changes the driving experience and controllability of a high boost 2WD car.

@RHBTurbochargers 2 жыл бұрын

Running a reasonably sized throttle body does this mechanically

@TheCarPassionChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@RHBTurbochargers I'd prefer the simple tuning of boost by tps rather than intentionally restricting the intake system with an undersized throttle body. Even with a small throttle body you're still affected by the TPS WOT curve and will achieve higher boost with less throttle at low RPM.

@RHBTurbochargers 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheCarPassionChannel It's all down to personal preference

@astonmarjo 2 жыл бұрын

Lot's of respect for a person or persons who have knowledge greater than mine when it comes to something I really care about. A great tuner is a gift from God 🙏 when you have a.... Race car! 💯 So much information on this channel 👍

@joebidden4914 2 ай бұрын

All the videos you guys are making have been incredibly helpful! I've taken a few of your paid courses and I'm going to be getting a lot more of them. I feel much better about building things for high performance and being able to be a reputable tuner/builder and I think your courses are the best place for anyone to start who needs direction and to learn. Lotta stuff you don't think about that you guys touch on and I appreciate it!

@zac2384 2 жыл бұрын

Can't wait to implement some of these concepts on my emu black

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

Enjoy man! You're certainly going to notice a big difference behind the wheel with your boost control dialled in 😎 - Taz.

@stefanofarnedi5649 2 жыл бұрын

Incredible

@Pursuit_Of_Speed 2 жыл бұрын

Could you do an example of how PID control works in the ECU?

@GTRliffe Жыл бұрын

twin gates-twin solenoid has performance advantages too

@ElmerRacing 2 жыл бұрын

Lots of solid info in this one again! Definitely requires some nitpicking on the "open loop" definition though. If you vary the boost control duty cycle based on map pressure, that should really be called "closed loop". It's in reality a PID control with the "I" and "D" terms set to zero. Just created in a different way.

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

I think if you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences - Andre

@ElmerRacing 2 жыл бұрын

@@hpa101 Always watch all of your videos! The name of a control strategy ultimately doesn't matter for it's function of course. But still think that a "P" boost control strategy should be called closed loop, even if it's being set up in a non-standard way.

@weduhpeople8504 2 жыл бұрын

The company who made my turbo kit welded the Turbosmart 45mm hypergate vband flange right on top of the g30-770 .82 a/r turbine housing which is 90 degrees to the housing and is not optimal to get the exhaust gas out 🤦🏻. My tuner pointed this out to me when he looked in my engine bay. I acquired the Turbosmart 45mm electronic waste gate which I will have the proper 90 schudule 10 elbow welded onto the turbine housing to efficiently get the exhaust gases out. Motec M142 with the half bridge will control the Turbosmart electronic waste gate. This will remove the Mac 4 port solenoid Im using at the moment.

@farmer3242 2 жыл бұрын

hi, my barra xr6t has stock ecu, is tuned and is making 400rwkw and gets boost surge sometimes. Traction control off, sometimes it boosts to 16psi by 2500rpm nice and smoothly usually in tip tronic going through the gears, other times flooring it from a stand still in D mode so it auto shifts it will boost surge jumping from around 10psi to 16psi and back to 10-12psi, it's not nice. what could the problem be?

@blumafuji2753 2 жыл бұрын

You mean the boost goes too high when you floor it? Wouldn't it be boost spike? Got that on '' old '' turbo cars, my Saab jump to 12 psi to drop to 9 just after, but I don't get surge in my case. This is due if I'm not wrong to the response time of the whole system, in my case ecu, solénoïd and wastegate I'm not sure to understand what happen in your situation ah ah

@farmer3242 2 жыл бұрын

@@blumafuji2753 it's a electronic boost control issue my tuner is struggling to figure out. The factory ford boost control is very complex to sort out once you have changed wastegate, intake, exhaust etc.

@Kyrazlan 2 жыл бұрын

This isnt strictly related to this webinar. Say I have a pretty heavily modified STI how would I go about creating a base map and tuning from there?

@BurpleRX7 2 жыл бұрын

Most ECU come with pre programmed base map logs but usually for a car in standard spec specifically to get a fresh install running only, With my rx7 this would not have worked as everything was changed but someone on the owners forums had a similar build that he could send over. Majority of the time though you will be looking at starting fresh or approaching a tuner who will have a good idea of what is required for your spec

@joebidden4914 2 ай бұрын

If you're looking to write the tune yourself, then you should look at HP Academy EFI tuning courses. I've gone through them and while there is a lot of nuances that are different between ECU's and tuning software, it will give you the basics you need. Another great tool that you can use once you have the understanding from those courses is the Borg Warner Match Bot chart. It will help you with really dialing in their turbos, but can be incredibly helpful for not BW turbos as well. There is a lot to learn, so make sure you learn all that you can before you start to write any tunes. When you finally have your basemap written for your modifications, you'll start by making sure the fueling is correct first and your hitting all your fueling targets before you start adding any timing. Like I said though, go take the courses and really apply yourself and take notes or whatever you need to do in order to retain and understand the content.

@g-mech1244 2 жыл бұрын

Simple question, where is the best place to get a boost signal from for boost control. Inlet manifold, turbo outlet, pre or after intercooler? Cheers

@J-Eagan 2 жыл бұрын

I want to say that the primary sensor used for boost control is the MAP sensor measuring the pressure in the inlet manifold. But I’m not convinced that that is actually the best for managing the turbo. Although if you consider the purpose of boost control to be about building pressure in the intake manifold to manage engine power, then really the map sensor is the best for the task

@RHBTurbochargers 2 жыл бұрын

Intake manifold

@farmer3242 2 жыл бұрын

@@RHBTurbochargers wrong dude, it should be after turbo pre cooler. stock is usually off comp cover.

@RHBTurbochargers 2 жыл бұрын

@@farmer3242 To each is own, but to regulate intake manifold pressure you must reference the intake manifold. You also get better wastegate control between shifts.

@farmer3242 2 жыл бұрын

@@RHBTurbochargers ok I didn't know that. Is it better that the wastegate diaphragm gets vacuum when throttle shuts?? I guess it would be??

@damnitdang 2 жыл бұрын

No videos on maxx ecu?

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

Not at this stage, what are you trying to learn how to do with your MAXX Ecu? Let me know as although we don't have any specific examples using their platform just yet, we do have a TON of content that will still apply regardless. All these different ECUs are trying to control the same things remember, none of them have reinvented the way a 4 stroke gasoline fed piston engine fundamentally operates - Taz.

@damnitdang 2 жыл бұрын

@@hpa101 im still debating on what to buy. Maxxecu, ecu master black or ms3.. maybe haltech 2500. For a 2jz gte. I'm leaning towards the maxx .especially for what I'm getting for the cost. Seems quite a few guys werre having issues with ecu master

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't base your choice on what we do and don't cover personally. Yes some specific content using the same software will help you learn a little faster, but not having it won't stop you with the previous comment in mind. If you don't plan to tune the car yourself at all in the end then you do also need to consider what your local tuner will and won't tune for you too, and then also the wiring situation noting there might be a plug and play option for your car that one company offers which another does not. At the end of the day there are more good options out there these days than bad really, and they all have pros and cons/quirks in one way or another. With all that out of the way, we do hope to add a MAXX example in 2022, both for tuning and also if we can an example to the PDM/PMU course using one of their units - Taz.

@michaelkazi 2 жыл бұрын

1st one here✋🏽

@bilaltariq7819 2 жыл бұрын

Why can't the turbo hold 22psi all the way?

@joebidden4914 2 ай бұрын

He said it in the video, the turbine housing becomes too restrictive.

@bilaltariq7819 2 ай бұрын

@@joebidden4914 comment was from a long time ago so I can't remember the video contents exactly but does this mean the turbo shaft speed slows down as the RPMs increase? If you opened the wastegate more and more would this lower the decrease in shaft speed? The restriction idea is hard for me to understand because if it makes 22psi at any point, I would assume it's the maximum because of the shaft speed can't go any higher?

@joebidden4914 2 ай бұрын

@@bilaltariq7819 its because of physical ability to flow, they just can't keep up with the airflow demands at higher RPMS and higher VE. Smaller turbos have quick response but their flow is restricted from housing size, turbine size, and also compressor size. There's a lot that goes into turbo sizing and different applications and also different fin desings for the compressor and the inducer and exducer sizing and shape. A lot more than I can explain in a comment here lol. Also just because the pressure is higher doesn't mean it will have more airflow. Turbos are usually rated in lbs/min of flow and a rough equation is 10whp for every 1lb/min of flow. This isn't applicable to everything, but it is a good general rule. You have to have the supporting mods and what not to be able to fully utilize the turbo if you go bigger as well and a proper tune of the VE tables and also adjust timing which is something that should be left to a knowledgeable tuner who knows what they are doing, not just someone going in and making changes when they really don't understand what they are doing. Sorry long post but its not so simple as just a compressor/turbine speed.

@Alteris85 2 жыл бұрын

There needs to be a session on creating a base map. There's not a base map for all ecus on standalone ecus.

@notsponsored103 2 жыл бұрын

Buy the Tuning Courses. Worth the money. You'll learn everything you need to know to not only create your own base maps, but also every other table and ecu configuration adjustment your car requires.

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

This is a free lesson (which is a course module) on base map setup. It is the first step which makes a lot of people overthink it. A base map to get your engine running so that you can check things and start tuning, nothing more, nothing less - www.hpacademy.com/blog/first-startup-no-base-map-watch-this-first-afr-initial-startup-free-lesson/? - Taz. PS: As EJ mentioned this is all covered in our course material and we can help you via the members only forum as you go if you need it too.

@GunniGST 2 жыл бұрын

That was not open loop but closed loop with P term vs rpm gains. Prove me wrong!

@hpa101 2 жыл бұрын

High Performance Academy 37 seconds ago If you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences here and the intent of the lesson - Andre