Get This Right or Your Orchestration Will Be Thin

Рет қаралды 93,799

2 жыл бұрын

Use resonance in orchestration to get a bigger, fuller and richer sound from the orchestra.
🎻 The 8 Orchestral Textures of George Frederick McKay | Intro to Creative Orchestration • The 8 Orchestral Textu...
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#orchestration #filmscoring #composition

Пікірлер: 128

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

🎻 The 8 Orchestral Textures of George Frederick McKay | Intro to Creative Orchestration kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nOCTjbqTmZyYqKM.html

@edcew8236 2 жыл бұрын

In the old days of the theater organ, this technique was called counter melody, often done with second touch on the accompaniment manual. (Second touch played additional pipes when the key was depressed further, often done with the 4th and 5th fingers). With a theater organ, though, it wasn't possible to play counter melodies as interesting as orchestral music.

@juanricardosanchezlopez3275 2 жыл бұрын

Ryan, this video is simply "for framing." Milled gold. Thanks once again. Chapeau !!! 🎩🎩🎩

@roelgarcia Жыл бұрын

Thank you! This is by far the best orchestration tutorials I've watched here in YT, I've just found your channel and so far just watched 3 videos and I've already learned a lot!

@AlecKatz 2 жыл бұрын

Loved your idea at the end. Great material and very nice presentation ✨ 👏🏻

@stefanocanali6477 2 жыл бұрын

A channel like this one is GOLD! Thank you, amazingly done!

@samkenny3075 Жыл бұрын

Just found your channel -- these are outstanding videos -- thanks!

@nathantolman985 2 жыл бұрын

Brilliant! Thanks!

@GersonSalvador Жыл бұрын

Man, I just recently discovered your channel here in KZfaq, and can't stop watching them. Your content is amazing.

@rodterrell304 2 жыл бұрын

Great Video Ryan. Loved the version that had the accomp in the woodwinds and the melody on the strings with the lower strings playing the arpeggio

@KBMars Жыл бұрын

Very helpful, essential information. Thank you Ryan.

@ianlarsen3920 Жыл бұрын

This is the video that first introduced me to your channel. Haven't looked back since. The musical knowledge you so freely share with us is invaluable. Thank you, Ryan.

@persiandrunkard Жыл бұрын

This is awsome. Love this channel. Thanks mate

@musicavox 11 ай бұрын

Great advice! Thank you!!

@MusicMan-er9sv 10 ай бұрын

Brilliant work as always :3

@kalendmusic356 8 ай бұрын

This might be one of the best videos on orchestration on KZfaq. Thank you!

@4BarCafe Жыл бұрын

Just what I needed to hear at just the right time. Thanks!

@sebastianbaverstam 2 жыл бұрын

This is really excellent, fun to watch, thanks 🙏

@ShivSagar010 11 ай бұрын

Thank You Very Much! 🙂🙏

@rgferreira78 21 күн бұрын

Very useful info. Thank you so much for sharing.

@ThomasLinrabbitpenguin 2 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate these videos thank you

@ncorva 9 ай бұрын

This is very clear and helpful ryan!! Thanks! Ps: love the appa frame in the back!

@NidusFormicarum 10 ай бұрын

Yes, it is also interesting to looking at filling in gaps in the upper parts of the orchestra. Sometimes, it's enough to let the overtones do the job, but on other occasions you can hear something is missing. It is also always worth considering how the individual instrument groups sound on their own. Two oboes in octaves can stick out as rough even if their are wood winds in between and a fifth on the violins taken as double stop will tend to sound like an empty fifth even if you fill the gaps with the other string instruments due to the resonance in the individual instruments.

@Roland_Geyer Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for the many valuable tips in your videos. They helped me a lot with my compositions 👌👍

@claudiogarcia8860 Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much.

@cpastore3537 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent Ryan thanks so much.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@ChristopherSiu 2 жыл бұрын

Love this concept Ryan. Thanks for sharing!

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Chris, glad you enjoyed it!

@Ouvii 2 жыл бұрын

Oh! I came across this independently because I had a staccato passage with really great harmonies that just wasn't sounding full enough. That has just been a one off for me so far though, so I thank you for actually making this concrete for me. Very very good demonstration at the end!

@IvoryShard 2 жыл бұрын

I love your videos Ryan, thanks for sharing all this musical knowledge for free!

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you like them!

@alexchristodoulou 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, simple and to the point.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@Markrspooner 2 жыл бұрын

Great tip Ryan!

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mark, looking forward to hearing you put it to use!

@GeorgKallenbach 2 жыл бұрын

Super Video, with a great point and good demonstration :)

@thierrygronfier342 2 жыл бұрын

I'm discovering your channel, which could become my favorite.

@bornaerceg9984 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you!

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Borna, I appreciate it!

@muziksculp2r 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this orchestration tip.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

You bet!

@FahlmanCascade 2 жыл бұрын

This was excellent information, and now I have something new to listen for the next time I'm taking in some music.

@seth6string Жыл бұрын

As a complete novice, I appreciate your book recommendations. I found Goetschius' Elementary Counterpoint, which you mentioned elsewhere, and am enjoying fumbling my way through it. Thank you.

@brayanfelix8502 Жыл бұрын

Amazing!

@DarthPreamp 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video! In the last example the orchestration seems to work better with the strings in the background and the winds on the melody.

@JoshLeveille 2 жыл бұрын

This video is so good!! Thank you! And I love the Zelda ocarina of time melody ; )

@persiandrunkard Жыл бұрын

Great videos, excellent channel

@ShaharHarshuv 2 жыл бұрын

Can you do more videos that shows the thought process of orchestrating a piano piece? I think that was really insightful. I need more examples.

@user-yj7dk1cx3n 8 ай бұрын

Man! All I can say is GREAT, GREAT INFO! Beautiful excerpts. For years I've heard these sounds and you make the understanding so clear as from where they are derived. What sound libraries are you using and which application? MuseScore, Sibelius, or other?

@chasvox2 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent.

@rafaelhernandez5550 5 ай бұрын

Hi Ryan, I watched couple or example of the course that you have Pillars of Composition and it look GREAT I was wondering if those course will go on sale some time of the Year? Thank you for all your work.

@dyvoid Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@RyanLeach Жыл бұрын

thank you!

@NikolaiMusicChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Love you videos and the way you present orchestration and composing tips in a clear and understandable way, also I love that you actually orchestrate and demonstrate most things you teach about in your videos :-) By the way, how are you liking Dorico as of now? Saw your video on it a while back, and you seemed sceptical then after using Sibelius for so long. I just made the switch myself, writing a short piece to learn the basics, and after a minute of music I'm starting to like it more and more :-) Also been using Sibelius for a while, and need to set up some shortcuts for some functions that are not programmed in as default in Dorico, like explode and transpose, which I use all the time. But never the less, Dorico is growing on me

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

You're right I was skeptical, but I pushed through and kept working in it. Now that I've understood their way of thinking I've come to love it, and I've pretty much caught up to my entry speed with Sibelius, which was my biggest concern!

@NikolaiMusicChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach That's good to hear! Looking forward to my workflow in Dorico catching up to my old workflow in Sibelius :-)

@alexgerlach5630 Жыл бұрын

This is a great. Thank you! :-D

@FocusMrbjarke 2 жыл бұрын

This is great. Thanks.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for letting me know, glad you liked it!

@FocusMrbjarke 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach You are welcome. I am trying to watch every video you upload.

@edbuller4435 2 жыл бұрын

Another great tip...Many thanks

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Very welcome, thank you!

@bigdog38au 2 жыл бұрын

Great stuff Ryan and beautifully explained. Love the McKay book also!!

@alessandropradella4457 Жыл бұрын

You could also add a sustained note at the end of all the low arpeggio parts to make it even more resonant

@Wulfhartus 2 жыл бұрын

very cool video to watch

@WalyB01 2 жыл бұрын

Wauw your channel is a gem! PS this is what we synth nerds love to do with electronics

@keatonviavattine4085 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I feel like I go to the KZfaq academy with your videos

@AstraVex 2 жыл бұрын

Came to learn something new, but found out that I've already been doing all this for years, just didn't know the names of the techniques.(heterophonic textures, woooow), lol Still, very nicely presented, great channel :)

@heeramalla4187 13 күн бұрын

Awesome

@donalddurham7999 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing! Is there a reason why you wouldn't switch the moving parts of the strings vs the dissonant renaissance chordal background of the woodwinds? Is there an importance to having the counter melody and melody consist of the same timbre? Rather than the background chords have a similar timbre as the melody and the other moving parts be a separate instrumentation? I've always thought both strings and woodwinds make for a good underlining chordal background whether there is or is not dissonance. I would think: the melody must stand out. It may stand out by it's timbre contrast to the underlining chords and/or the counter melody or some other moving parts. In most cases I think it's dictated by the situation in which the theme(s) flows towards.

@marriowhyte1138 Жыл бұрын

Listen bro.. You are awesome . I am a undergrad Music student at USC in Trinidad and Tobago. I love composition and arranging and with your explaination of these two area is super super cool.. From listening to your video where you talk about two system of writing I have composed a piano and violin duet and I must confess , I really love it .. I would like to share it with you and get some feedback on it .. That would be awesome.. Blessings

@zachary963 6 ай бұрын

I’d love to hear ideas like this applied to other instruments and styles, if only so that non-orchestra people (like me) can relate. For instance, I’d have never thought about doing this with the orchestra, and I certainly wouldn’t have tried putting the accompaniment in the same family. BUT I use this exact arrangement technique in rock recordings all the time. I’d pan an overdriven guitar chugging the chords to the left, and another guitar with less of the same overdrive sound arpeggiating the chords panned to the right. But then underneath I put another guitar sustaining the same chords going through a Big Muff, which is hyper-distorted. And it sounds huge with the Big Muff, even when it’s 10 db below everything else.

@Josh-tu8js 2 жыл бұрын

Just found you content, love it! What program are using to notate and/or “play” the score?

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Since last summer I've been using Dorico

@GeorgeKoukliatis 2 жыл бұрын

First of all, I thank you as all modern composers surely will do. As a beginner, I used to watch your videos again and again when I was stack on the orchestra. Secondly, I want to ask about musescore... Musescore is my "mom" on music, I started composing with that, but now I feel there is a time dor change, (let's be honest, the musescore hasn't the best orchestral instruments in the world). What I am saying is that I need a suggestion, (in a logical if not free price), for a better platform to work. Thanks for your time.

@alexwatson7068 8 ай бұрын

Huh, learned something new. I'd like to think I know my way around orchestration but I had not heard this.

@tabbywarrior 2 жыл бұрын

I'm amazed at how realistic your sounds are, what software do you use?

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Writing in Dorico and the sound set is NotePerformer, which I absolutely love. It made writing in notation software so much more enjoyable

@tabbywarrior 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach nice! I currently use Finale and don't get anywhere NEAR these realistic sounds even with the basic Garritan package. Thanks for letting me know! A lot of KZfaqrs don't like to tell us.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

@@tabbywarrior Ha that's crazy

@Phicheee 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach Quick question: are "sound set" and "soundfont" the same thing? I work in Musescore and I was curious about what could make my orchestrations potentially sound more realistic. Awesome video, too! You've earned a new subscriber!

@porridgegod42 Жыл бұрын

@@Phicheee I’m sure you don’t need soundfonts now that we have the glorious musesounds of MuseScore 4

@carlose.johansson739 2 жыл бұрын

Like it! Ill be back! Thanks a lot! 🙋‍♂️

@Manas-co8wl 6 ай бұрын

This is a game changer thank you I do have a question... how well does this translate to other genres or midi?

@RyanLeach 6 ай бұрын

I think it's pretty flexible. Like you could use a soft synth pad for the same effect

@jean_mollycutpurse_winchester 2 жыл бұрын

Back in the eighties, our old producer used to call it, sonically dense.

@jonathanallen2560 2 жыл бұрын

What's the background song in this video from 0:12 to 0:36? I wish to study the sicknasty groove.

@5ammy13 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Ryan, great stuff. Was wondering what trombone samples you're using. They sound lovely 😁

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Sounds great right? That's Note Performer which works seamlessly in Dorico. It made writing in notation so much more fun!

@5ammy13 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach Ohh yes I have played around with the demo and I gotta say it sounds great. Thanks for that :-) Just out of curiosity, what Brass samples do you use for your mockups with a DAW? 😀

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

@@5ammy13 I am pretty indecisive about brass samples.. for a while I was in love with CineBrass, then I switched to Spitfire, and at the moment I’m going with Cinematic Studio Brass which I like both for the sound but also how playable it is.

@5ammy13 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach that's awesome. I love Cinematic Studio Brass too, and you can't go wrong with Cinebrass when you want thay Hollywood sound. Spitfire is a little hit and miss for me... Too much inconsistency between patches. My next library on the bucket list is Aaron Venture'' Infinite Brass. Sounds great and love the flexibility of it 😁

@arthurllongjr382 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you again for the education! I’m thinking about going with Albion One software for orchestral composing. What are your thoughts on that software if any?😎

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Never used Albion, sorry

@arthurllongjr382 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach thx for responding! Is there one that you would recommend for producing film & Tv music?

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

I use Logic, I think the two most common in LA are Logic and Cubase

@victorgrauer5834 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent presentation. Very useful, thanks. However, the approach you advocate, though consistent with standard late romantic music, and still valid for much movie music, became progressively obsolete during the 20th century. Someone (Erik Satie?) once described Stravinsky's orchestration, in contrast with Debussy's, as "music without the sauce." The difference is particularly striking when we compare Mussorgsky's original scoring for Boris Godunov with Rimsky-Korsakov's more conventional rewrite, which made it more acceptable to 19th century audiences.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

I'm unclear if "without the sauce" is meant as a compliment or insult? Either way I'm glad to hear it's still valid for movie music since I'm a film composer ;-)

@thaismanccini 11 ай бұрын

Is there a general rule for resonances in orchestra? For example: difference of one (or two) dynamic levels in relation to the melody (i. g.: if the main melody [foreground] is in mp, the resonance must to be in p (or pp)?

@RyanLeach 11 ай бұрын

Depends on context and instruments I’d think, but one or two levels below should work most of the time

@thaismanccini 11 ай бұрын

@@RyanLeach Thank you by attention.

@marcususa 2 жыл бұрын

Are you showing us the compositional way to achieve resonance, or is there also supposed to be instruction on how to achieve resonance with a program? I see the slurs and ties, is that what you are getting at to achieve resonance? I was looking at Musescore videos and Google recommended this video, so I automatically thought maybe this had to do with use of some software.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

This is resonance in the sense of how it sounds, the slurs and ties are not really specifically related. It's putting sustained chords behind moving parts

@danielmillardmusic Жыл бұрын

Am I correctly assuming you used your own compositions in this video? I'm hearing some very interesting pieces and I'd love to add them to my listening library

@RyanLeach Жыл бұрын

Sorry no I mistakenly assumed the pieces were well known, I do not do a diligent job citing the original composers but will try to do that better in the future. The first piece is Rey's Theme from Star Wars: The Force Awakens by John Williams. The second is Scheherazade by Rimsky-Korsakov. The Ocarina of Time piece is from the Legend of Zelda game of the same name and is by Koji Kondo.

@danielmillardmusic Жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach oh sorry, I forgot to specify. I meant the other pieces used in the video, like the ones used at the very beginning.

@RyanLeach Жыл бұрын

@@danielmillardmusic Oh ha that makes more sense. There's usually a mix of my stuff and tracks I pull from a stock music library. I usually need to use the library stuff because I need tracks that maintain a consistent energy and dynamic level across a long stretch of time, my own pieces tend to change too much to be useful for this context.

@danielmillardmusic Жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach Ah, I see. Thanks, mate!

@minor_shadow3799 2 ай бұрын

Do you know a good music writing software? I’m composing pieces but am limited by my software and have done research but don't have experience with any. Any that have tons of sounds and have a ton of composer choices when it comes to articulation and stuff.

@RyanLeach 2 ай бұрын

Personally I like Dorico for notation and Logic or Cubase for production

@queenpetra1364 2 жыл бұрын

Me a jazz saxophonist, who will never play in an orchestra, much less compose for one: mmm yes, very useful✍️

@Qermaq 2 жыл бұрын

5:26 how is that bass clarinet transposing? As written, with standard transposition down a M9, that would seem to be muddy. If that's transposing down a M2 (?) it makes more sense, but I would rather swap that line into a bassoon and have bass clarinet on more fundamental tones.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

Concert score

@Qermaq 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach Ok not accustomed to that, but now I see.

@RyanLeach 2 жыл бұрын

@@Qermaq It would probably be better from the composing perspective to use transposed score to keep me sharp, I think it's harder for most people to read though

@Qermaq 2 жыл бұрын

@@RyanLeach My opinion? That's the best reason to use them :) I mean, if someone is only concerned with mockups sounding good and not the actual orchestra (and too often today that's all they'll use anyhow), it doesn't matter, but to truly learn orchestration one needs to think like the player, in the player's transposition. Just my three cents.

@donlawrencessongs188 11 ай бұрын

In the first example (Williams), I'm surprised that the trumpets can play mp sixteenths effectively, that low. I'd expect that to sounds blatty.

@RyanLeach 11 ай бұрын

I like how Alain Mayrand puts it: "dynamic markings are an attitude not a volume knob". So I take that to mean in this case that the mp is an indication to the trumpets of how their role fits into the texture.