Thanks! Much appreciated!

Glad you liked it!

Thanks!

What do you mean by it not being able to assign tracks to specific objects? It seemed in this video that you can set up any track to be a 3D object. What does ProTools do differently that you prefer? Curious. Thanks.

@@davekerzner yes, any track can be an object, but it is whatever object Logic decides (in the integrated Renderer), you cannot say for example I want this track to be object 75 or whatever. But that's only for the integrated renderer. If you work with the Dolby Atmos Renderer software and Logic you can use the Dolby Atmos Music Panner along with the Dolby Atmos Binaural Settings plugin and you can assign whatever you want wherever you want. But now, you lost the one click reference for Spatial Audio!! Hehehe!!! Can't win, can you???

On a Mac you can use nxosc to use the WavesNX headtracker with APL Virtuoso. Virtuoso has a standalone versiin that you can connect with the multichannel output of Logic.

Great suggestion!

@@michaelgwagner also a comparison in Logic of a stereo binaural mix down with Apple Renderer selected vs Dolby Renderer in Logic ?

😂

Oh and you didn't get into the meta data aspect of the spacial audio mix. Does Apple Music recognize this meta data (mid, near, far etc.) yet? Do all the streaming platforms recognize it? Is there a difference in how effective it is when set in a bed vs. an object? Good useful things to know.

The size of an object specifies the area from which the sound is emitted from. If you have size 0, it is a point source. For streaming Atmos is encoded in a special format that allows and Atmos capable player to approximate the original objects. They do not use the Atmos metadata directly. Most streaming services support this at this point.

I would probably render out stems and setup an immersive mixing project.

Have not tested that tbh. I might do more Logic videos in the future.

@@michaelgwagner Do you have to use an Aux with low pass filter when mixing in Nuendo or PT?

No, you can send some of the audio from objects into the LFE with the panner and you can use traditional bass management on beds.

Good question.. Depending on your rig, you shouldn't need to employ any filters on the DAW such as hi and lo pass (for the reason you say anyhow), off course you have that as an option but watch out for overlap and phase issues if done badly.. Most of our target listeners go through an atmos or surround setup or headphones. Normally these will have Bass Management (Crossovers) built in to their AU or and speakers, so if thats your target its a good idea to use it.. For your LFE and low frequencies etc., id recommend having a look into Bass Management and it's Frequency/Channel, ours for example sits with a +10db gain above the Centre Channel, and comes in at 80hz as that works for our studio. This directs everything to the sub and can be extended in frequency by roughly an octave. Again, most satellite home speakers are not designed to reproduce anything below 80-100hz.. Studio Monitors however go much lower so it in theory be possible to get away without it but if the monitors are full range sudh as the KH310's we use (Most studio monitors are full range anyhow, else a technical setup) they may interfere with the LFE itself, such as frequency overlap and phase issues - which may truly kill the mix. So, most of your bass should ideally be driven by your L, R, Ls etc (never C). monitors themselves, the LFE being Low Frequency Effect, doesn't do what most people think, it's designed to emphasis the low end when needed, think canon fire in a move or explosions - in truth, this is only really getting worked out for music, it's still the wild west to a certain point. So if you setup the LFE and beds well, it should take care of itself.. Just to add, we use the Dolby Atmos Renderer itself, using Dolby Bridge, it provides a lot more functionality but you still get to use the Logic Panner etc.. So, in the drop down we select 7.1.4 or 7.1 itself depending on the job that is;)

Thanks! Yes, the Apple headphone monitoring is second to none right now. But Audiomovers just released a plugin that brings this monitoring solution to any DAW (on a Mac).

If you have it in 7.1.2 format you can simply drop it. If you have it in Ambisonics (A or B) you first need to convert it to 7.1.2. Logic does not understand Ambisonics.

@@michaelgwagner Great! And another quick question. I'm gathering recordings using the Rode NT-SF1 and want to use their SoundField plugin. But I've been completely unable to get that plugin to work in Logic Pro or in Izotope. So do you know a quick and inexpensive way to get the SoundField plugin to work, so that I can easily generate Dolby Atmos beds and get on with producing head-trackable surround? Rode seems to have dropped the ball with regard to their plugin and haven't updated it since around 2018.

I would try Reaper. That usually solves everything.

@@michaelgwagner I'm now using the trial version of Reaper. The SoundField plugin works, but when I try to render a 7.1.2 surround file, I am forced to choose an 8 channel (or less) output and only the first two channels in the rendered file end up containing audio (the other six channels are silent). So I must be doing something wrong in the rendering process. Thanks for your help; this whole thing is driving me a bit nuts, I must admit.

Reaper can do this. And you can use the trial version indefinitely. It just keeps showing the nag screen but it keeps working.

Logic is ahead when it comes to Atmos. Especially with respect to headtracking.

It’s possible and I might do a video about it. But to be honest, the Apple head tracking is so good, I would probably just pick up a pair of Airpods.

@@michaelgwagner Indeed. It's just that I really like, (and know) my headphones..

If you are working in Logic and produce Atmos, then nothing can beat the Airpods Max due to their built in headtracking capabilities. Otherwise it is a matter of preference tbh. I currently use the Neumann NDH30, but my preferences change from time to time.

Humans are generally bad perceiving height information, which is why the Facebook format ignores second level height information altogether. Behind depends a lot on your ear physiology. That’s where a personalized HRTF makes a huge difference.

I think I remember that being mentioned somewhere but I don’t recalll where or why this can be. If you do a comprehensive internet search you might find an answer.

Not necessarily easier. It pretty much works the same way it does in Cubase or Pro Tools. You need to add a send into the bed and then make sure that the panning is linked between send and track out.

​@@michaelgwagner I think I now understand ... to add reverb, the object signal is sent through a 3D reverb and then the reverb is "baked" into a static Atmos bed. Right? Also, it follows that if the object is a dry, mono file that should be clearly localized (eg. a bird song), the reverb should be entirely free of direct sound, such that only the reverb is baked in, not the dry sound object. In other words, the reverb should be "100% wet". Right? In your Cubase video, the reverb you created seemed to include quite a lot of direct signal, which makes sense I suppose because you were spatializing a stereo recording, which would not be highly localized anyway. For my application, which involves spatialization of bird songs in an environmental bed, it seems important not to include any direct signal in the reverb because that is likely to muddy the object's location in the final 3D sound-field. So, am I thinking about this correctly? My plan is to use DearVR Pro (in Logic Pro), both for spatialization and to add 3D reverb to bird songs. I don't know exactly what the workflow will look like, but I am confident it will be fairly easy to pull off. Or not?

Yes, you are correct.

Thanks! Yes, you have to first convert A to B since the A format is Mic specific. I have not yet looked at Logic but my understanding is that while Logic is not set up to work with Ambisonics, you can nudge it into using 1st order Ambisonics (which is what you get through the H3VR) by using a Quadrophonic track. You would then have to convert the audio into Atmos channel format somehow. It might be easier to do the entire Ambisonics A -> 7.1.2 through Reaper and then just drop the converted file into Logic. We do have an H3VR. I might do a video about it in the coming weeks. This is an excellent question you posted.

Hello Michael, and thank you for your videos (I've been watching for a couple years now. Did you find a solution for adding ambisonic recordings into dolby atmos? I have a sennheiser ambeo mic, a zoom H8, and I was also trying to see if I could use the 3d recordings as a bed in dolby atmos composer for either logic or ableton. I'd love to see if you've covered any ground in this direction. Thanks!

@thebillymark Thanks! That’s easy to do in Cubase/Nuendo or Pro Tools, but a challenge in Ableton or Logic. Interesting topic, let me think about this.

I look forward to it! Also, is it easy in Reaper to add 3d recordings in an atmos bed? And/Or is there an inexpensive version of Cubase that I could use for this one feature? Again, your videos have been so helpful!

Interesting idea. I‘ll look into it.

Not unless you need the additional features the renderer provides. If you do not know what they are, you very likely don’t need them.

Next week 😉

If you want to create an Atmos file you need to export it as an ADM BWF. I have not worked with Logic much, but if you just bounce or render the audio it should generate whatever you have set in the monitoring option of the renderer. But take this with a grain of salt, I have not tested that in Logic.

Yes I know, the inconsistency between rendering algorithms is annoying. Not sure how to work around that.

I don’t have a solution, but I know that Fiedler has the same issue and they are working on a fix for their plugin as a top priority.

@@michaelgwagner thank you for your reply Michael :-)

Interesting

@@michaelgwagner here's another issue, when you bounce 'Surround' mix, i.e the binaural ALL the different encoders, I.E dolby, apple, 2.0 do not phase cancel, they're also not sample alligned so have different start points. Exporting correctly for delivery to a distributor is scary, becasue stereo version has to be sample accurate to the atmos file.

Of course

Actually adding Gain>Multi Mono with about -7.5 worked well to get my first Spatial Audio track to -18 LUFS, however, now I'm wondering how to get the True Peak to -1.0. Does anyone know? (Izotope Ozone is not yet compatible with Atmos).

Dolby has an article about this: professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/How-Should-I-Measure-Loudness-in-Logic-Pro-Using-the-Integrated-Dolby-Atmos-Workflow?language=en_US I am not 100% certain but from what I understand Dolby Atmos measures loudness based on a multichannel downmix. If you want to stay within Logic you can simply put a loudness meter and a channel meter after the Atmos renderer. That would measure the 7.1.4 downmix. If you work with the external Dolby Atmos renderer you can use the metering that is built into the external renderer. Edit: apparently, in oder to match the metering by the external Dolby Atmos renderer, you need to set the monitoring option in the internal renderer to 5.1. If I read that correctly, this means that the "official" loudness measurement of a Dolby Atmos track is simply the loudness of the 5.1 downmix.

We’ll see. Lol.

Do we need an headbtracker because I reached out to rj for a head tracker so I sent kow what to get cheaply

If you are using Logic I strongly recommend going with the Airpods.

As far as I know, yes.

@@michaelgwagner i just discovered on Apple support that it only works on Mac with Apple silicon. What a pity!

Ah, interesting, did not know that. Thanks for the info.

🤔

That’s interesting. Out of sync by how much?

@@michaelgwagner a fraction of a second but makes it unusable. Doesn't ALWAYS happen but enough for me to not bother using 3d objects any more. Is there even much of a difference between using beds vs 3d objects?

Yes, if you are not using objects, then Atmos is pretty much pointless. You could just as well do a regular surround setup.

@@michaelgwagner really? Beds and 3d objects sound the same to me but I'm using it to create immersive sounding stereo binaural mix downs. I would love to use 3d objects however so if you do come across a solution for this problem please would you let me know Michael?

If you are only doing binaural mixdowns then Atmos is overkill. The value of Atmos is in the way objects are treated by the Atmos endpoint device.

I have mixed feelings as well. 😂

Feelings Pro X

Thanks! 😃