Hahaha.

Beautiful

True 😂

He ducks because he's evading questions he doesn't like.

​@@fishjj76 why so rude?

Indeed.

first and foremost, I'm just sharing my walk in Christ. In my experience this is true to those who are not yet accepting the Lord. But for us who accepted the Lord, We are justified on the cross, I'm sanctified by His Blood. In the revelation we must stay in the truth and perseverance is vital as we are still in the world.

Let me ask you do you lose any sleep at night worrying "what If the Buddhist god is the real one" ? No , how about islam or hinduism ? Maybe those that believed in Thor , Zeus mithrah , or any of the thousands of other gods got it right 🤔🤔 But hey let's just assume that the god with the talking snake is indeed the correct one . There are thousands of denominations of christianity and each one has its own particular interpretation of gods wishes and morality and that all the other denominations and interpretations have got it wrong . Many believe that unless you are in their specific denomination you are doomed to hell ( that means you ) You see you and me both are atheists to all these thousands of other gods , I just go one god further 😜

God knew what he was doing when he chose Cliffe 👍🙏

Cliffe is so good because he has the absolute truth! Truth wins everytime! You could have the smartest person debate a teenager & if that teenager has the truth, He or she is going to win the argument! *TRUTH IS REAL!*

+Eric Splodge No tunes there...

@@coconutchitty there will be; it’ll just always be off key and offbeat.

@@andriod090 lol

Frank Sinatra..... the Hoboken Kid.

@@andriod090 off key and off beat doesnt always mean bad, look at avantgarde modern classical music. All music, either organized or not, is a gift from God. Wont be tunes there.

There is no eternal hell ,there is only eternal efect of that fire. Many good individuals have turned away from God because of that misunderstood Bible truth. Keep Bible as your source of truth.

I’m a brother you can talk to everyday bro. Reach out to me

You ever get that license bro?

@@servantofthelambofgod7879 Thank you for that brother, I know this was 3 months ago, I never got the information through my KZfaq, so my apologies on my late reply

@@albeltra8 Yes, definitely did, now I just need the car and it's coming in the name of Jesus ☝🏾

@@TimothyGPTSanders amen brother much love ❤️

Salfate Chile wake up and sort out the opinions and viewpoints from facts. You will discover most of what Cliff says is either not history or just makes false statements

@@jameskominos6728 none are perfect or 100% right, but his history is correct, although a couple of his opinions are relative not objective and was not called out on it.

@@godislove363 Sorry to disagree with you but Most of his historical statements are false, I have listened to a lot of what he said. For example he states that the Gospels are reliable historical evidence which they are absolutely not

@@jameskominos6728 what reliable evidence do you have that they are not and if not a believer in Christ why be on here. Asking q's are one thing attacks are another.

@@godislove363 The evidence can be found in any History book who's authors are experts and renowned Scholars in their subject field. That includes the History of Christianity, Roman Empire, plus Judea in the time of Jesus. Do not be a person with their head in the sand. It should be a goal for anyone to seek out the truth and point out those who distort the truth to push an agenda like Cliff. Remember Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free " Free from the bondage's of those who attempt to distort it and use false history to push their religion.Religion is a matter of faith, history is used to find the truth in human affairs. The difference is obvious.

@Nico, you said it my friend ... "at least that is the way i understand it", we all view life thru our own lenses, and that varies wildly from person to person.

The killer, if he is indeed a Christian, can be forgiven by God and therefore go to heaven, but in this lifetime, he would suffer the justice of the earthly court for his crime. He may be imprisoned or even suffer the penalty of death at the hands of the presiding earthly authority so that the victims of the crime would receive their due justice.

@@timleblanc2676 Thanks for that reply Tim, I just stumbled across your reply from 2 years ago. Here's the thing, not everyone who commits a dastardly crime of let's say rape and murder...is caught and punished, there are tons of unsolved cases around the world. That's where your concept of justice falls flat... I say again, if that person who committed that terrible crime ( and never got caught) is genuinely apologetic and 100% sincere in his apology and accepts Christ as his savior, ... according to the Christian doctrine ( we have the example of the thief on the cross.. "tomorrow, you will be in paradise with me"), that man who committed that dastardly crime, he goes to heaven, so he was never punished here on earth, because he sincerely apolgised to Jesus, he gets the reward of eternal heaven. But lets say he was caught, and punished here on earth, lets grant you that scenario, he goes to prison for life. While he is incarcerated in prison, he is treated decently, he gets fed, he has a bed and a roof over his head, he gets tv, access to a library, even though he is in prison, he's not being tortured or punished severely , I'm sure by todays prison standard, he would also be given counselling by a psychiatrist to work out his issues and reasons why he did what he did... it may well be he has some underlying psychiatric condition that was beyond his control, and that was the reason he did what he did, our laws and justice system ensured he was taken out of society and quite rightly incarcerated because he was a threat to society. It seems modern human justice in most civilized western countries is far more civilized than this Christian idelogy of sending someone who's committed a crime to a sentence of eternal punishment, .. it's like being sent to a torture chamber in which there are no doors to let people out.. you are stuck there forever to be severely punished... if that doesn't sound utterly barbaric and inhumane, I don't know what to say to you Tim. Think about it and get back to me to tell me what I've got wrong. It was my fear of hell as a child that led me to distance myself from my Christian beliefs . the whole concept is totally wrong. The more I thought about it, .. the more problems I could see with it.

@@bonnie43uk I really like your comment/question here, it is a good question and one that should be considered by all, Christian or non Christian. Your question is similar to the gentlemen from the video. He, and I believe you as well, correct me if I am wrong, are saying that it is unjust/unfair/unloving to sentence someone to hell for eternity. Additionally you seem to be saying that it is unjust for God to forgive someone that did not pay for their crimes. My thoughts, if you don't mind me sharing, on those two issues are as follows. Taking the latter point first, God punished Christ in our place to pay for our sins. No matter if the murderer is punished in this life or not, it does not matter, God does not have to punish as Christ took the punishment for the murderer. That is the concept of grace and forgiveness. You are given something you don't deserve, your debt is paid not by you, and you are forgiven and no longer have to pay the debt back. God, being infinite, is able to take the sins of the world upon himself, that is why the Christ had to be God. The first point, about hell being unjust. I feel like this goes back to a misconception that hell is a torture chamber. Hell is separation from God, separation from God's good grace, love, protection, all things I don't understand in this life because I am not separated from God (no one is in this life, believer or not). Additionally, I believe that God is a perfect judge, so although I don't fully comprehend hell, or what the next life will be like, I take peace in the fact that no one will be dealt with unfairly. Hell as torture is really a misconception, look at the rich man in Jesus' parable. The Rich man is not screaming in agony, he is not pleading for release from a torture chamber, he simply asks to send someone to tell his family not to make the same mistake he did. That I feel is the true torture of hell, being in a place where you realize the mistakes you made, there is torment from that, but there is no eternal torture chamber where you scream in agony all day. Simply a place separate from God, where you can exist and be your own God just like you chose to be in this life. To combine the two points, judgement, coming from God, will be perfect, and for us to speculate on what we believe to be the most just/fair/loving thing, merely elevates us above God. It is man's pride, believing we know better than God, believing that if God simply did it our way it would be better. But instead a humble understanding of Justice/Love, is that we as humans have a fair assessments of Justice/Love, but our assessment is imperfect and flawed. Ultimately though whatever conception of justice and love we have comes entirely from God. Another way to look at it is, when we sin what is the just thing to do? The just thing, from God's holy and perfect position is for us to die. God could have killed Cain, and that would have been just, I mean Cain did kill someone so its only fair Cain dies right. However God sees the situation and is also perfectly loving, and that in turn is the struggle. We as humans often times cannot combine justice and love like God does, and that results in perhaps a just situation but not a loving situation, or a loving situation that is not perfectly just. Sorry for the rant, I just feel that your questions are entirely valid and important, so I don't want to give some disingenuous short answer that doesn't meet the quality of your question (hopefully you don't feel that this is a disingenuous response). Thanks again for your comment.

@@christian11111 Thanks for your reply Christian, it was a good read. If Hell ( whatever that consists of) is eternal, .. and I am going there because I reject Christ... should I not be made aware of the exact terms and conditions? ... that seems fair to me. Many Christians themselves *do* regard hell as being some form of eternal torment.. many genuinely believing it's some kind of place of eternal torture.. Jesus himself speaks of a place of "wailing and gnashing of teeth" ... what do you suspect thats all about Christian? It's my view that any wrongdoings i committ in life.. are MY responsibility and it's upon me to ask forgiveness from the person I've wronged.. and that same person is under no obligation to forgive me if he/she feels i dont deserve it...learning from my own errors is what makes me the person I am. None of us are perfect, we're all going to make mistakes in life. If we can learn from our mistakes and become better people.. then all well and good... we can pass on our wisdom to others. How about this idea Christian E, ... how about, if, when we commit a sin, .. that God punishes us there and then, instantly... God would know the exact level of punishment to deliver. Instant retribution, that sounds fair to me... like a child who recieves a smack... we learn quickly what is acceptable and what is not. It in no way takes away our free will, .. we would still have the free will to sin, but we'd be aware of the consequences. You have the free will to put your hand in a fire.. but you dont do it because you know it would cause you pain. It would be good to get your thoughts.

@@bonnie43uk thank you as well, these are great points to discuss. I should also have prefaced in my last comment that my view of hell comes entirely from the Bible rather than “church” teachings, since there are varying degrees of hell amongst the “Christian Church” community. Anyways, to address your points I’m just going to break it up into separate paragraphs for each one. The first of your points is shouldn’t we know the terms and conditions of hell. To that point I think the Bible gives an unfavorable depiction of hell and a favorable depiction of heaven, do we need more details than that? It may not be a torture chamber but if God tells us about the good of heaven and the negative of separation from him then do we need the nitty gritty details of hell. Your terms and conditions question is basically saying you want to weigh the pros and cons of hell vs heaven, so you can assess how you want to live your life today. Not saying that’s what you intended but that’s how I understood your comment. The second of your points, I would summarize it as how is hell not a place of eternal punishment/torture. Biblically speaking, hell is actually not intended for man, it was created for the devil and his angels. It’s purpose was for a eternal separate location in which fallen angels would reside, as God cannot have sin around himself. That means hell was created and intended for eternal spirit beings, not for bodily humans. However God had to separate sin from himself, and he also won’t make anyone be with him who doesn’t want to be, so God honors that decision and puts people in hell. In regards to torture, the worst language used for hell is gnashing of teeth and the concept of a fiery furnace. However all the representations of hell are allegory, not literal. Hell is represented as, outer darkness, yet a fiery furnace, it’s represented as seclusion yet also as groups of individuals weeping together or gnashing/grinding their teeth together. Both examples are contrary to one another, how can you feel alone but be with others, how can you be in darkness if there is fire there. My answer to this is simple, the biblical statements about hell are metaphorical and pictures of how it will feel to be there. Sure I agree it doesn’t sound pleasant but it also isn’t described like a torture chamber. I believe these are just the affects of being separated from God. I don’t even know what that would feel like for a comparison, and I think that’s the most difficult part of describing and understanding hell. Third point, wrong doings in this life are my responsibility to pay for. I agree with this, and I agree that as you said, we are to ask forgiveness of those we have wronged. Everything you said about that I agree with and support. All I’m saying is that there are so many things we don’t or can’t ask another for forgiveness for, that is our biggest problem as humans. God placed all sin in Christ on the cross so he could pay what we can’t. How can I ask someone to forgive me when I never did anything to them, but perhaps I felt jealous of them, perhaps I lusted after someone I saw online, perhaps I hated another race (not saying I do, just an example lol). These are broad sins which we need forgiveness from, however I can’t ask a specific individuals for forgiveness. Just a different biblical view of sin, I understand you may not necessarily agree with that but I wanted to share my take on it. Still I agree with you, asking God and individuals we have wronged to forgive us need to happen, especially for a Christ follower. As for your final point, instantaneous punishment, that’s a good one, I like that point a lot. I like that idea as well, the only problem is that God cannot be around sin forever, he puts up with it for now. But if he had taken a instantaneous approach to addressing sin that would have resulted in the end of humanity. If God punished Adam how he deserved to be punished right away then Adam would be dead. The Bible indicates that the punishment for sin is death, but in Gods love and grace he found another way to have our sins paid for. Thanks so much for this interesting conversation, thank you for indulging in it with me.

+Agapey Technically if we lived a sinless life we'd be allowed to go to heaven, but everyone born into this world (other than Jesus of course) has sinned at some point

+Agapey Pride is the enemy spirit, and associating with him is being grafted into the wrong vine, and dragged the opposite direction of Love. So I officially disagree with you. Being born again is being cut off from Satan's vine and grafted into God's. The sinning is the evidence we hijacked by God's enemy spirit. We need His power to be changed, so choose The Saviour!

***** 1. "“Nevertheless I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you" 2. “And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few." So I am curious where you got the idea that everyone goes to eternal torment day and night for eternity all getting the same punishment? There is one scripture that I will give you where some Christians claim this. Just to help you out a bit. "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." "

***** You know what? Almost all Christians would agree with you. No one except for maybe a few demented people want to think of people being punished mercilessly. No matter how evil they are. Something Cliffe explains in some of his videos is what a sin against God is compared to a sin against one another. If you punch your friend and he calls the police, what kind of punishment do you think you would get from the courts? Probably not much. Now go up to the President of the U.S. and punch him. Do you think your punishment would be the same? Now go punch the face of God (metaphorically of course because He is spirit). The Being that created all things physical and non-physical. I have no idea how hell will work as I have never been there but Christ made it quite clear that the avoidance of it is really simple. Believe in his Truth and that He already paid the price of your sins for you. Rejecting that is like punching God in the face. The God who loved you so much that He was willing to let His own son die and take your place. Would you be willing to give up one of your family members to death to pay for the crimes of another person?

***** So I gather you are a Universalist?

***** Universalists believe all people will be allowed to enter heaven

***** Ok sorry, I may have misunderstood your stance on salvation.

No dear according to Scripture hell or eternal paradise is dependant upon one's BELIEF in extraordinary supernatural claims not how one has lived their life. 👇👇👇 *John 5 24* “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life" I am a atheist, i work hard providing for my wife and 3 kids and spend most of my spare time doing voluntary work with young children ( many of whom are disabled ) the smiles upon their faces the only reward or purpose one could ever need for it to have "meaning" But under Christian theology my inability to believe in magic and extrodinary claims and diferentiate them from the many other such extrodinary claims of other "Gods" with differing scripture and "values" derived from them, means that I'm deserving of eternal torture regardless of how I live my life. *A child killer however* so long as he truly repents and accepts Jesus on his deathbed he can spend an eternity in paradise with the children he murdered. Unless if course those children also found the "evidence" for your God unconvincing, in which case your child murder would be looking down from paradise on the children he killed as they too suffered for eternity with me 🤮😡😡😡 Is THIS "morality" ? Is this "JUSTICE" ?? 😡😡🤬 Imagine a girl gets raped, they catch the rapist and he gets found guilty in court. The judge sentences him to life, but then says to him "dont worry I will serve your sentence for you" Has the rapist recieved "JUSTICE" ?? Has the raped girl received "JUSTICE" ?? Of course not yet that is precisely what happens under the Christian vicarious redemption (scapegoating) nonsense ideology 🤬

***** 6 million Catholics ???. Where did you hear that?. How do you know that Hitler didn't have some kind of neurological brain disfunction, or a psychological disorder which compelled him to do the things he did.

***** That's a very good question to which I don't have a good answer.

***** : What does it matter if he had a brain issue. You put down a rabid dog don't you? Then you would put down a rabid person just the same.

docfate Hi docfate, what about this scenario, let's suppose Hitler is in his bunker in the final few days of the war, he's given a bible to read, he locks himself away and spends time engrossed with the New Testament, he suddenly comes to his senses and realises the error of his ways, he gets on his knees, begs forgiveness, and accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, according to your doctrine he would spend eternity in heaven wouldn't he?. At least this is what I've been told by many Christians.

bonnie43uk First of all your question isn't a realistic one, because it defies logic. People that are Atheists, do not have a belief problem. They have an obedience problem. You can see this in your case, when you failed to show me ANY evidence for your Atheistic/Evolution beliefs, and in fact when shown the opposite. That your religious convictions, don't have any foundation, you refuse to change your beliefs. The same thing with a Hitler. Hitler's problem isn't that he doesn't have belief, for if you read his book Mein Kamf, you can see very clearly that Hitler was an ardent believer in the religion of Atheism/Evolution. This is why he did what he did. He believed in Eugenics, where there are people that don't deserve to live because they are sub-human, and not as EVOLVED as others, and therefore following the Laws of Nature, that the strong will survive and the weak die off. He was simply following his religious convictions in exterminating Gypsies, Jews, Mentally Retarded, the Deformed and anyone else that was inferior genetically. Therefore your question that Hitler would have repented and asked for forgiveness is nothing but ludicrous and defies the laws of logic and human nature. We can even point to Hitlers counterparts Stalin, who was also an ardent Atheist/Evolutionary. Who on his death bed, instead of repenting to God and asking for forgiveness, it is said (by his daughter who was an eye witness) that he was so rebellious, that he shook his fist in the air at God one last time before he died.

Your point adresses how we should set a frame of reference which we can agree on. Not so much of the content of moral statements themself. The point christianity tries to make is that somehow there must be an absolute, undenailable and unquestionable frame of reference. a) it is not true one needs an absolute frame of reference to make objective measurements (it works fine in physics in relative frameworks.. though i agree it would be much more difficult in morality). b) what would 'absolute' about god's frame of ref? what does that mean? "Hitler thought "his" good was well." And I think it of mine, and god thinks that .. now what? What does it mean to say that we all MUST agree with the god-framework, when we obviously CAN and DO disagree. To be clear, i disagree with Hitlers view, they are objectively wrong within my view of morality. But same goes for god's views.. and probably the other way around. Just like in physics, there seems no way out of this Relativity of Frameworks. It's a version of Goedels Incompleteness Theoreum which says that no logical system can be founded within itself. You cannot just assert god to be outside it.. that is something you have to explain. The way you get around the relativity in physics is discussion and trial-error to see what works best in reality. It s finding commen ground.. and i think that is not to be found in forcing a morality on those who do not accept it. It's a democratic discussion that includes real outcomes of actions and embrances our human nature (both its cruelty and its empathy).

P.G. Burgess It is not "we should set a frame of reference which we can agree on." My point was, you must have a point of reference. The Bible is absolute. And because it is the truth, God's. Science, physics are Human in design, which theories are often used ,and thus, they are subjective. Depending on each person's point of view. And yes, 'Ol Adolph thought, in his mind, subjective, that he was making the decisions that he desired. And we know he was wrong. Murder, torture, is wrong. How do we know, because God says it is. Human life is precious, so there is a value to this.

P.G. Burgess It is not "we should set a frame of reference which we can agree on." My point was, you must have a point of reference. The Bible is absolute. And because it is the truth, God's. Science, physics are Human in design, which theories are often used ,and thus, they are subjective. Depending on each person's point of view. And yes, 'Ol Adolph thought, in his mind, subjective, that he was making the decisions that he desired. And we know he was wrong. Murder, torture, is wrong. How do we know, because God says it is. Human life is precious, so there is a value to this.

Brucev7​ Besides al the assertions..* i cant help but feel the same inconsistentiy between saying there IS an absolute frame of reference... but also aknowlegding people can create their own morality. The only thing you seem to mean by 'absolute' is the claim you have the thruth on your side and therefor you have no further need to support your argument. I dont really feel i got a answer to my question: what makes a frame of reference absolute when you can disagree and use a different framework? I agree that, as you say with science, the statements from 'human' morality our only objective within the used framework. Why does this not apply to gods idea of morality for us? * When you try to make the moral argument for the existence of god.. you can not start by assuming morality is not a human concept and comes from god. That is what you are trying to demonstrate;

Yes but more so trying to find a way out of the consequences of not believing in Christ for salvation.

Because he is comfortable being himself : )

He also wears the same clothing for two reasons one because maybe he does not have a high budget maybe it was a normal Financial life and therefore can only afford so many clothes like myself and he's modest secondly don't forget these videos he will send him to do back-to-back the way they're numbered or label is he will actually do them very close to each other and when you travel or you stay in the same place for 3 or 4 days you're going to probably wear some of the same clothing that you see in a different video it is that simple.

Ezekiel 20 : 25 25 *So I gave them other statutes that were NOT GOOD and laws* _through which they could not live, 26 I defiled them through their gifts_ *the sacrifice of every firstborn* _that I might fill them with horror_ *so they would know that I am the Lord*

Do you really think it preferable to base morality upon the knowledge, moral values and ideologies of Iron age people that believe it moral to .. *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* That a raped girl should be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough along with unruly rebellious children who disobey their parents ( sounds like most teenagers to me ) and the people who gather sticks on the wrong day of the week ?? Are you going to assert that such things no longer apply because they were moral dictates that applied in a different "time" and "culture" to a specific people ?? 🤔🤔 You see in reality it's YOU that's is advocating for a form of *moral relativism* with your "new covernant" garbage. The very LEAST one would expect of an "objective" moral reference is that its UNCHANGING, regardless of time, place, peoples ect.

Yet they still convict 13 year olds for murder.

We all deserve hell because we all have sin against God.There is no one good, not even one; Romans 3 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.” “The poison of vipers is on their lips.” Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes.

​@@PokeMaster03 Do they convict babies and order their death like the God of biblical narratives does repeatedly??? Do they hold children accountable for the actions of their distant ancestors once more as the biblical God does ??? 🤢🤮🤮

​@@PokeMaster03 There is no such thing as SIN only moral and immoral actions. Transgressions against the percieved whims of subjective invisible beings are irrelevant in any discussion of morality dear.

@@trumpbellend6717 immoral actions are sinful actions therefore sin is real immorality is another word for sin.

And you *'THINK'* the bible represents the word of the "correct" subjective invisible creator 🙄🤔

I'm sorry but do you not realise that according to the biblical naratives it was GOD that created *EVIL* in the first place. ? 👇👇👇👇 Isaiah 45:7 7 *"I form the light, and create darkness I make peace, and create EVIL I the Lord do all these THINGS"*

P.G. Burgess There are only two options about living life: 1. Living by a standard defined by an authority e.g. a) state law b) Law of God 2. Living by a standard which somebody decides to believes is right (subjective) I hope you can see the cardinal difference in the absolute sense.

filip s i do understand the difference.. though i think the implications drawn are in error. There is a destinction to be made between "absolute vs relative" and "objective vs subjective". As far as i can tell.. every frame of reference for any measurement (physics as well as morals) is relative. For an atheistic, it is clear as you point out. For devine ones.. the relativity still aplies to accepting the law of the god, and which god for that matter. (Something which greatly varies between relegions and internal to denominations as well.) The subjectivity aplies to our experience of harm, well-being .... This is also the case for a devine morality. Hence the guilt and human failings, the seeking and personal successes. The objectivity of a divine moral system lies in the laws that are (supposed to be) set in stone. For the atheistic-humanistic part, the subjectivity is the same. But there is objectivity in reality... in statements 'about' our experiences. In the statistics of what in- or decreases physical harm in people, what creates stable societies or what causes mental stress. I agree that these points are often made more subjetive through lack of data or predictability. It is my take that this is however a more usefull way of talking about general morality despite the greater subjective undertone. It avoids the basic Euthyphro-dillema. And the subjectivity in measurement may even be an advantage since it exactly gives a control-system that prohibits makes absolute statements without taking our human nature into account. And as said in the first point... the question of absolute vs relative is the case for both views. (Unless it would be demonstrated that it is impossible for people to reject the devine framework.. but i dont see how that would work.) kind regards, (sorry for the lenghty text)

You're not making any sense, P.G Burgess. Is English not your first language?

filip s​ hey, sorry if the response was lenghty, but still do feel free to respond if you have the time... Kind regards

***** There is not one Christian who believes in annihilationism....!

"Making your bed in the depth" does not mean hell.

Jesus enemies stated in him there is no sin.