I laughed so much when ben said "IF I ACCUSE RUFUS AND DUFUS" and someone in chat says "why do you do that to rufous?"

Magnus finally said today that he will make a statement after the current Julius Baer Generation Cup tournament is over.

Dude, I love this guy! I have the same opinions as him. I don’t like Hans because he embodies that whole “Arrogance of youth” idea. At the same time I don’t subscribe to ruining someones life / career over speculation and require some proof before grabbing my pitchfork.

You’re being the most well based person on the topic since the beginning. And yes, you were speaking on Magnus behavior since the first week

This is why I love Ben. Uncompromising levels of honesty.

Well we all know if Hans did indeed cheat, then he’s one of the most talented cheaters out there

This is why we love Ben; he's cynical - but realistic.

Gotta admit. A grown ass man holding a grudge against a 15-16 year old kid for years is hilarious.

Very much appreciate your commentary on this Ben

After a few weeks Magnus comes out and says, "I'm not playing Hans because he stole my girlfriend. I never said Hans cheated in Chess."

I think that this commentary from Ben perfectly explain why Magnus did what he did. Ben is saying that it is frown upon in the chess community to accuse someone of cheating, even if he is cheating. That even if you are sure that someone is cheating, to resign or to quit is worse. This is exactly the kind of mentality Magnus is against, like he said in an interview one year ago. To find a cheater in chess is super difficult, like for doping. The only real way of contrasting it, like for doping, is to have harsh punishment if you get caught even once: you get caught? Lifetime ban. One free pass if you get caught as a minor. Magnus never said that Hans cheated in the cup, in that match. He cannot prove it, and he has not accused Hans of that. However, what he knows is that Hans is a cheater. He cheated multiple times, and he admitted so. Everyone playing against him, will always have the doubt. Therefore, he should not be allowed to play. He got caught cheating many times? He should not be play competitive chess. The fact that in chess people still say that is bad manner to point at cheaters instead of denouncing it is the reason of Magnus action. We need for chess a movement similar to what happened in the '90s for doping: if you used doping, people should not feel bad about not wanting to compete with you.

i enjoyed that. i'll try to watch more of your vids in the future.

It's fun to get a quasi-inside scoop on all this. Love this dude.

I would argue that it is quite good for the sponsors, fans, streamers and KZfaqrs. It's fantastic content and also scratches much larger (and quite topical) existential questions.

He didn't know until last second that Hans was playing in the tournament. At that point it was too late since he was already committed. Hans was a replacement player for that tournament.

Why are so much comments to this topic blocked? Is this a bug or censorship?

Wise beyond your years, and thats saying something! Cheers ben.

If magnus “used his pull” to demand hans not be allowed to play in a tournament that would in and of itself be a scandal. Just because yours the world champion doesn’t mean you get to decide who plays or doesn’t - it would only show that magnus has far too much pull and would make him look even worse in the short and long run. I think you underestimate how badly that would go over

I don't think Magnus is doing what he thinks is the most ethical, I think he's doing what he wants. But if we're on that subject, one person who always tries to establish themselves as more ethical than otheres is definitely you.

We've heard that Magnus went through the back channel communications and it wasn't taken seriously. Apparently both he and Nepo had something to say before the Singfield Cup and they brushed it off. Fabi said the security wands they used wouldn't be able to pick up anything less obvious than if the players tried smuggling in guns. Though I guess that would be a pretty effective way of cheating.

Someone in the stream pointed out that what Magnus is doing may be sandbagging. As someone who just applied sandbags to his house for Hurricane Ian, I can tell you, that's not sandbagging

Totally agree with you, Sir

I want to say that it is weird that Hans broke Aronian’s opening with Be2 four moves before that …Ne5 that ended the game. But you are right about Sinquefield Cup (sic). Magnus played @ 85% accuracy, so he loses to any GM. Also, petulance is messed up to make him look like a fool.

A LOT of youngsters cheated online. 2 players on the Uzbek Olympiad winning team cheated online not too long ago. 1 player on the young Olympiad Indian team cheated online aswell. Hell, even Alireza Firouzja, former n. 2 in the world, cheated online and got banned for it - twice, but once it was unjustified.

Yay Ben. At first I was all team Magnus but when I heard Ben I changed my mind. Naka overstepped.

Ben, you have by far had the most intelligent and honest take on this whole thing that I have come across. Massive respect to you

There's a reason professionally run Rust servers don't let anyone with a game or vac ban play on their servers no matter how long ago the ban was. I was a Rust server admin. I can't speak to all games, but for that game, once a cheater always a cheater. Let a cheater on your server and they will find a way to cheat.

4:06 "I will give you my opinion on something, and I feel strongly about it: DT Gregg subscribed."

Agree with everything here. It also looks particularly bad when you lose and withdraw. If there was an issue it may have been best to raise it before the game. The result of the game is irrelevant. Would Magnus have stayed in the S.Cup if he had beaten Hans? It would appear that it's okay to cheat if you lose.

I was unaware.

Cool comments on Magnuse / Hans... Where do you get your protein from?

A big point id like to make that doesnt take away from what you said because you addressed it sort of hans wasnt suppose to play in the tournament hans was a last second substitute. and he said he wouldnt have played if he knew hans was gonna play in the tournament.

Finegold states subscriptions as factually as Dwight Schrute says "It is your birthday." 😂

Very well said Benjamin

A lion does not concernhimself with the opinion of the sheep.-Tywinn Lannister. Best pseudo person quote ever.

In other games, cheaters don't get notified of them being under surveillance and instead people play as normal and then cheaters get caught by surprise

Yeah I didn’t think Magnus would play in this tourney, and yet he did.

9:32 "financial *renumerations*" hahaha Ben, remember, it's remunerate, from 'munus' gift.

8:37 In my opinion, he had to play in this tournament. He signed the contract to play months ago. He is not punishing anybody other than himself and that should be respected. If he opens his mouth and says ANYTHING to the press or the organizers he can be sued. As long as he keeps quiet he is safe.

In football, when the refs miss or blow a call the other team benefits from cheating. Nobody walks off the field and quits. In football we have re-play to prove the cheating and everyone handles it better than Magnus.

Excellent points Mr. Finegold.

Magnus is just being a bully, that's how I see it.

Preach.

Why is nobody considering the possibility that Magnus cheated

You're saying Magnus should or shouldn't do this or that, but nothing he's doing is against any rules. Magnus is clearly trying to make a statement, and it's working. In other words what Magnus "should" do depends completely on what he's trying to accomplish.

How is Magnus supposed to handle it though? I feel as though the only way to find out if he is right is to put a lot of attention on hans.

Gm ben finegold i have a lot of respect for you and i appreciate your opinion. I don’t agree however with your conclusions. magnus is indeed in a tough spot like you said. we don’t know the whole story. You say that he should have not participated in the tournament but we also don’t know if it was maybe in his contract or not . And also he may still be waiting and solidifying his proof, which is why he has to wait and do it in the way he is doing it

You wanna know what comes to my mind when I hear or see Ben Finegold? 'Nothing here nothing there.'

I was really really really hoping that Hans got paired against Carlsen in the quarters, it would have helped bring this whole sordid mess to a speedier conclusion.

In this tournament, at least, Magnus giving Hans an unearned win did not change the qualifiers to the knockout stage. Giving Hans zero points instead of three would drop Hans down into a four-way tie from 6th to 9th on 21 points, but Giri would still have been the one to miss out because he had the worst tie-breaks.

what does the shirt say?

4:46 that matches my opinion. Magnus will never again play Hans. Organizers that invite both Magnus and Hans will basically be daring Magnus to not sign on the dotted line. If Hans happens to reach the final in this tournament as well as Magnus, there won't be a match.

They’re gonna get matched together in the final and Magnus is gonna play the Hippo

GM Ben Finegold in "it matters if someone did the thing they're accused of" shocker

Great shirt! :D

What does his t-shirt say?

Whats on the shirt written?

I agree with most of what you're saying, but Idk if magnus is ruining hans reputation, I think hans ruined his own reputation. I still think hans is a chronic cheater, but im also not a good chess player so I defer to magnus on that part. Who should I believe? A known cheater or someone who hasn't cheated and is the world champion.

Can we get a ben vs simon drinking chess battle? A shot per blitz loss or something

I thought you were pretty clear on c24... BTW. Great job.

It seems Ben would truly be more outraged by Magnus being suspicious of a known cheater then if Hans cheats. Btw Hans does cheat online - where’s bens outrage

How do you differentiate from having a suspicion that someone is cheating versus accusing them of cheating? To say Magnus Carlsen is "accusing Hans of cheating", you're kind of accusing Magnus of accusing someone. Ben, you literally give no way for someone to raise suspicion that someone is cheating. So then, how do we actually stop people from cheating then?

love the shirt!

@10:45 - I think most of this analysis is spot on, and under normal conditions the criticism here at the end would be correct, but in this case, there is no doubt that the controversy brought more eyes and attention to the Sinquefield Cup (Even though it was not their desired kind of attention). I am a lowly sub 1000 player and I spent more time watching that tournament than any previous tournament. I'm certain, that the operators of the tournament are ecstatic with the result and attention, though they would not say as much in public. Alireza Firouzja is also a great champion. The cliché is a cliché for a reason, There is no such thing as bad press. Sponsors and Organizers might appear perturbed, but undoubtable when they see the metrics and unique visitors for the event compared to last year, they will but nothing but elated.

Magnus could do like Alekhine, banning Capablanca from all tournaments where he plays, but that will not be right.

Carlsen getting Niemann thrown out would have been even worse behavior imo.

its about the coach also. some kinda leaked prep stuff. no devices

Great take as always +2

Magnus is on a bully power trip.

Real quick: fen binegold

Ben is a fan of fair play and fair of conduct.

You are using the word can't to much. Magnus and everybody else for that matter, can do whatever they want and think is right.

I suspect that Magnus isn't concerned about the ethics, but is resigning on move two to try and preserve his headspace for the upcoming games. Maybe. Idk. Seems more plausible than the idea that he's making a statement

Go Ben!

Awesome t-Shirt. Where can i buy it? I wanna buy it! Please send me an affiliate link so you make some money aswell. Go Ben!

GM Hans Niemann is not a Ben Finegold fan either

I particularly agree with the point made at 9:00 or so, where it was about how Magnus shouldn't join the tournament planning to resign because it can affect the standings. And also, people organizing the tournament and coming up with prize money are doing so because they want to see good chess. Whether Hans is cheating or not, it is unambiguously unfair to those people and the other players in the tournament. So I agree that of the two of them, Magnus should be sitting things out until his allegations are backed up with something. And as people may note, I'm one of the guys arguing that Magnus is probably right about Hans, or at least he THINKS he knows how the cheating was done. He's damaging himself too strongly otherwise, so he's gotta be very sure. I still think this is where Magnus is wrong about what he's doing: how he's doing it, and how it affects others. So yeah, if there's anything the two sides of this debate agree on is that his behavior is bad for the game when Hans is innocent, and bad for the fans, tournament organizers, and other players regardless. He's just so sure about it, I have to feel like the other shoe is going to drop soon. At that point he will still look kinda dickish, but vindicated for his suspicion. If not, he's got a lot of crow to eat.

My theory is, Magnus knows hans is cheating, because hans rectal device signals are being recieved by magnus 9 years used rectal device.

I don't think Magnus's actions more loudly assert that Hans cheated than a formal statement would. You have it backwards. His actions without a statement communicate that he has an opinion but holds that opinion with a certain amount of diffidence, or that he lacks the wherewithal to publicly defend it at this time. A formal statement by Magnus would communicate (A) what his opinion is; (B) that he holds that opinion confidently and is prepared to defend it if called upon. Accordingly a formal statement from someone with as much credibility as Magnus would by itself be significantly more damaging to Han's reputation than silently withdrawing from the tournament (and resigning) has been. Which is why everyone is still waiting to hear him speak.

No half stepping

Always respect your insight Ben

People of integrity don't want to be involved around cheaters. Magnus probably was irritated Hans was even invited to that tournament, it affected his play, he lost and blew up. Hans should never ever be invited to any chess tournaments for money. PERIOD Cheaters need to be eliminated from competitioin to send a message to young players. NEVER CHEAT.

According to Fabi, magnus losing to Hans has nothing to do with him quitting the tournament. He was doing it anyway.

Magnus just trying to Hype up some future Matches

For those majoring in Drama: Take Notes.

interesting, but maybe we don't know the whole story yet

Such clear, level headed commentary.

hes not overreacting if Hans cheated extensively online and Magnus found out about it recently (got additional info). Magnus is making a point. For some reason Magnus is not free to give all the details yet. He has to be concerned about slander as well if he cant prove it.

Love drama and insanity!! Bring on level 5!

How is Magnus overreacting if Hans did in fact cheat?? This is exactly the mentality why cheating is becoming so prevalent in chess and spoiling the game for everyone! I think it's great that Magnus is 'overreacting' so that we start doing something about cheating in chess! In sports, it's either make it or break it, and careers can be literally destroyed when competitors start cheating.

Thought the Aronian game was suspicious as well. Plays Bd3 against the Siclian which is rare, ok but then he plays Be2 a couple of moves later, which was very unhumanlike. Then he also plays a Yugoslav pawn structure against a Dragon and castles kingside?? I'm a Dragon player and I've only seen that happen from an engine out of book, never seen a player do it over the board. Lev made some mistakes afterwards but 100% accuracy on the punishment by Hans. Thought the whole game looked odd.

the only problem I have with your contention is that if Magnus plays on it helps Hans because Magnus beating the other players only helps Hans out. Why should Magnus help Niemann by beating the other opponents who aren't machine aided?

Why did Magnus fall into the well?

If im correct now that the 8 are qualified the only way is if they make it to the final match

Whats wrong is that Magnus didn’t make the accusation himself and instead posted an insinuation online and let everyone else make the accusation. That’s wrong. Defamation is not cool (in fact its a crime). If you’re gonna allege that somebody did something, you have to do it clearly, and unequivocally, and to stand by it, and to face the legal ramifications if you are not able to prove it. You can’t accuse people of things and not be able to back it up. That’s a jailable offence.

9:06 cracked me up

magnus still hasn't said hans cheated to defeat him.

I'm curious to know why Ben assumes that Magnus was planning to resign. To me it seems absolutely plausible that he sat down to play the game, got overwhelmed by negative emotions and decided in that moment that he couldn't do it and resigned. A common anger management strategy is to walk away from the situation that angers you. That's not to say that I don't find it plausible that it was a deliberate decision and that Magnus thought that this was the best way to expose/punish a cheater, but I wouldn't just assume so. I haven't followed this very closely, so I might be missing something, but I would be more than happy to be enlightened.

I don't like myself as a teenager, so ... no need to judge Hans now for what he did as a teenager. I'm sure he will grow out of his habit of online cheating. And, I cannot agree with you more re your comments on Magnus. Nice to have a rational and reasonable voice!

You said that accusing of cheating is making huge backlash, but you know- Magnus is accusing without saying it directly, so all Hans is facing all the consequences of being accused of cheating, but Magnus is not taking responsibility for that in legal terms. It is just unsportsmanlike, especially when Magnus is a world champion and he has a lot of influence in both community and chess organisations