@@siriosstar4789 nah. i'm not here to be coddled. they put out serious content and we learn...keep it moving.

@@siriosstar4789 Get over yourself.

@@siriosstar4789 would you like him to give you a pat on the back? Get over yourself tool.

@@siriosstar4789 Lol what do you want, a big thank you at the end of every video? Who cares.

experiencing the same on my guide r, I will try this trick as well in hopes of getting that mushy lever feeling away!

Great advise. I’m going to try this

Genius! Great idea!

I did it this way after reading your comment. 1000% better than Sram’s way. Instantly better brakes

Thanks! This is hands down, the most useful comment ever. Thank you! 🙏 😊

I realise I'm about 8 months late on commenting but you're right, dont pressurise the system from the lever. I found that sealing off the lever and adding pressure through the caliper then shutting the system off with the bleeding edge significantly improves the feel and effectiveness of the brake

Thanks, I've watched several bleed videos and found one with another great tip @7m14 for bleeding at the midpoint adjustment kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d6l3rKRitry7eZs.html

Oooooooooh I’m 2 years late but I’m going to try the calliper pressure suggestion today. Sick of spongy rear lever

At your own risk and carefully to not spill dot fluid all over: Do the bleed as per instructions. Re-attach the wheel, stick the syringe thing to bleeding edge port on the caliper with some amount of fluid in it (if not already in). Screw the port open and make sure you are not pushing air to the system (keep syringe pointing upwards and make some vacuum to pull any air from the system). Push syringe until brake pads almost touch the rotor. Close the port while holding the pressure. Make some vacuum on the syringe before/while removing the syringe to prevent dot fluid from going all over. Levers should bite almost instantly now.

@@amend2806 legend. Thank you! It does make more sense to add pressure without the bleed block place unlike the way they tell you with the block in cos otherwise it's just the same as before it was bled again 😂

For some reason ive never bled my 2009 avid elixir just put new pads on as needed ?…? The same with my ‘16 m8000 shimano brakes but im here because my new bike came with sram and the Level tL kinda suck as far a lever throw and now have to buy a bleed KiT ?

I bleed my brakes 2/3 times a season lol, just to make sure they're 100% when I do bike parks/Gnar

This 100%. I'm not sure how someone can say they're pressurizing the system when they unscrew the syringe and let fluid leak out at the lever then just put the screw back in.

And you may end up with the DOT spilling out of the pressure relief holes located in levers. I personally think it will be leaking until it become the same mushy long dead stroke feel like before. Experienced fellas also say this is the way to damage the internal bladder and end up thrashing the brake...

@@josefarnost5606 Not saying it can't happen, but I've been doing this for years and they have never leaked. And It doesn't change the peak pressure when actually using the brakes so I would question any claim that it will damage the bladder.

@@plmn93 Just happened to me, the DOT still leaks a bit. I'll see... a bit scared though 🙄

Thanks, that is what I needed to know. 😁

Good to hear Vit!

Yup, same here! Cheers Doddy 👍

I have both brands, only bleed shimano till now, but by looks doing this with SRAM looks harder

How can this possibly be easier than Shimano. You can do a 30 second bleed just using a cup on Shimano to get any air out. Then if you need you can do one similar to this with syringes.

Isn't the whole point to push new oil into the system? By pushing it back and forth all you're doing is mixing old discoloured oil and new oil into the system and contaminating everything.

I just put hydraulic oil in with recycled motor oil. You maybe able to drop it off at a service station. Depends what your laws are.

Haha agreed. Changed all my brakes over to Shimano. 1 cup to bleed all.

Also since Shimano uses mineral oil, which has a higher boiling point, doesn't attract water (Which dramatically reduces the boiling point), hold dissolved gas or strip your bike's paint, it doesn't need to be replaced for years. Magura, who've been using mineral oil for their brakes since they first entered the bike market probably over 40 years ago at this stage, don't even have a recommended replacement interval for their oil because it just stays working - I have a Julie on one bike that's been running the original fluid for probably a decade at this stage just feed it brake pads and adjust the reach screw in the lever every couple of years (It works loose very very slowly) and that's it. The only things going for DOT fluid are that if it does get on your disks, spraying the whole lot with water will usually get everything back working because DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 are very water soluble, while with mineral oil you pretty much have to burn it out of the pads (Or replace them) and degrease the disk and caliper (I find sanding the disk in a mix of water and washing up liquid gives great results) and it's easier to find if there are no decent bike shops around. Citroen LHM (Hydrauilc oil for their hydropneumatic suspension systems) works perfectly in Magura brakes in my experience if you're stuck, I even got a leaky set of HS33's back working once by using slightly higher viscosity fork oil (Still a mineral oil). Both Shimano and Magura will swear blind that using the oil for one in the other company's brakes will damage them, but I suspect this is more about warranty and selling their approved parts than for any genuine reason.

peglor The problem with mineral oil for brakes is exactly that it doesn’t absorb water. Which means that any water in the system will collect at the caliper and lower the boiling point of the system to that of water. In practice that is not a big issue for mtb brakes but it certainly is for cars, trucks and motorcycles.

But if you want to stop, use SRAM

You mean after you've spent an hour sorting out the inconsistent lever feel by rebleeding the factory bled brakes, right?

Exactly!

Which is why I remove in the reverse order!

Thanks for a great video. Shouldn't preasurising the system be done from the calliper end? Seems a bit pointless from the lever end when any pressure just offloads by pushing a load of fluid out after taking the syringe out? I did it from the caliper end which was the only way I could get pressure in and get it nice and sharp

Thanks for the tip. After closing the port at the lever Do you need to pump or pull the syringe at the caliper end? Thanks for your help.

One problem is DOT fluid brakes need to be bled regularly. They need to be maintained. DOT fluid naturally absorbs moisture which lessens it's ability to withstand heat. I bought Avid Juicies some 15 years ago and they suffered the exact same issues that Sram suffers these days......constant rubbing after a few too few short years when the piston seals degrade from their DOT fluid. They've never fixed this issue! Not to mention the horrible quality control that Sram seems to ignore. Funny thing is Hope, Hayes and Formula seem to make decent DOT fluid brakes that last more than a few short years. Shimano for the win! I'll never make the Sram mistake again. For anything.

I prefer Shimano too but DOT fluid is practically a requirement in the winter.

Glad we could help Alan & goodluck!

How are your brakes doing 🤔

Totally agree. Don't know why this video doesn't do it this way...??

Btw there's a couple other things that are helpful that do not follow the Sram instructions - one is to dial the contact point adjustment to beyond halfway in the "In" direction. Sram instructs us to dial the adjustment all the way in the Out direction. This doesn't allow you any adjustment to firm up the lever. It's highly ineffective! Another is to use a thinner bleed block, to allow more fluid into the system... Sram seems to be intent on doing whatever possible to input the smallest amount of fluid, i.e. create the least amount of pressure, but that is what so many people complain about...

Andy G - that sounds like a great idea. I agree that removing the lever syringe first would make sense since, when you lose fluid from the lever, you can add it back if pressurizing from the caliper and you won't lose a drop due to the push on/pull off design of the bleeding edge adapter. I have more free stroke / lever pull required before the brakes engage and I keep thinking it's due to losing fluid during that last step removing the syringe from the caliper. Quick question - are you just reversing the entire process (i.e. starting the bleed from the caliper end to the lever end), or are you doing everything the same as in the video, but instead of pressurizing at the level end, you pressurize at the caliper end? There's the step where you squeeze and release the brake lever - where does that fit into the process you described?

@@ruknight4ever I follow the video up until the pressure/disconnect step. I squeeze the lever before the final pressure and disconnect.

The SRAM video here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/erikYKaBl9KYZ2g.html fails to demonstrate as well, therefore I have the same question- especially after following the painful but religious de-gas protocol for so long. Perhaps they have abandoned it, but I’d like to know the mechanical “why’s” of this. Is this only specific to the Bleeding edge procedure? Is it for all guide brakes?

Mik Popiel definitely still worth de-gassing. It improves the purity of the brake fluid and will give you the most solid consistent feeling.

Air compresses, fluids don't. Yes, it's worthwhile, it doesn't take long!

@@rollinrat4850 never heard about degassing the fluid, how do i go about this?

SC4RC3 F4TLZ This procedure is only recommended in older Sram instructions. They don't even show it any more in more recent tech videos, so it's not totally necessary. But it's pretty easy. I think anything you can do to get a better bleed on Sram's junk is worthwhile. SIDE NOTE: I'm not a fan of Sram by any means but I have to work on this stuff all the time. I ride and recommend Shimano. I like mineral oil brakes. I have a different viewpoint than most people in the bike industry. I used to be an aerospace/medical industry mechanical inspector and I RECOGNIZE quality. Personally, I demand high quality. In my experience, Sram's is low. LOTS of bike companies have compromised quality! They're greedy! Ive seen a lot of Sram issues, warranties and recalls. They certainly cut some corners, but there's worse Chinese garbage on the market. To be fair, I don't think Sram is 'always bad', but they could do much better. Personally, I'm careful with my own money and I believe brakes are not the place to cut corners. I think consumers would gladly pay more for higher quality. THE PROCEDURE: With the syringe clamp closed, hold the tip straight up, pull the plunger back a little to draw a vacuum and tap with your fingernail. Don't pull too hard and draw in air past the piston. You'll see the bubbles rise. Do it several times until you see a decent size bubble in the syringe. Then open the clamp and get the bubble out. We only ever do it with DOT fluid. I never bother with mineral oil. Remember, DOT fluid absorbs moisture, so always use a freshly opened container. Also you want to flush and bleed DOT brakes at least once a year due to that moisture. Moisture will cause the fluid to have a lower boiling point.

Shimano brakes are far more reliable and long lasting than Sram. Shimano's use mineral oil and don't suffer all the issues of Sram and their DOT fluid. Shimano brakes are also far easier and faster to bleed. Sram has serious quality issues. I'm a shop mechanic. My shop has recalled, warrantied and replaced hundreds of Sram levers and entire brake assemblies in the last several years. Sram has had the same quality and DOT fluid related issues they've had for several years. They've never solved their problems. Sram doesn't take quality control seriously. Its more than obvious. I wouldn't recommend anything they sell as a result.

I forgot to mention, I'm a career machinist and mechanical inspector. Ive built things that fly in space, that humans rely upon. Ive built surgeon's instruments as well as lots of other pricey machinery. I believe I qualify as a quality expert. Cyclists are human too!! The bike industry's marketing BS can't fool me! The lack of decent quality control in the bike industry concerns me and it ashames those who know better.

@@rollinrat4850 no one arguing this.. with 40 years of bike mechanicing under my belt, couldn’t agree more. But when you bike you bought has sram, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, lol

@@ashevillescarborough That's why I mentioned the Sram Pro bleed kit elsewhere. It makes a pain in the ass procedure a little less painful. I can use cheaper syringes for mineral oil bleeds and the seals don't go bad. DOT fluid sure is nasty stuff, but Hope, Hayes and Formula seem to make decent brakes! I just find it hard to accept brakes not to mention anything from a company that's never made hydro brakes very well. Even in the best circumstances, Sram doesn't work really well for more than a few short years before the piston seals get sticky and pads start rubbing constantly. I see brand new Srams with sticky pistons! We've recalled and warrantied Guide and Level brake levers for all the 6 years I've been wrenching in a shop and my old Avid Juicies suffered similar problems. They've never fixed these quality issues! My company, a large chain of shops in Wackofornia has replaced THOUSANDS of these levers. Haha! Its job security! Im still using a set of ten year old XT brakes and they still work great, but the levers leak very slightly. I'm on a campaign to try and help consumers not make the mistake in buying Sram in the first place. Overpriced for very poor quality control kind of piss me off. These are brakes we're talking about. A company that doesn't take brake quality nor their consumers well being seriously doesn't deserve any business at all in my opinion. But I'm sure I'm just preachin' to the choir in your case!

It could be that you're pulling too hard on the syringes, pulling air past the seals. Try again but push/pull the levers quite gently. You should only ever be moving the fluid slowly anyway. If that doesn't work then your seals may be perished/damaged, letting air in where you don't want it!

Check the brakes for the 4 letter identifier 'SRAM' printed somewhere on tthem. If you find this written anywhere on the lever or caliper the brakes are defective and should be replaced with one that don't say SRAM on them.

Never understood why I see this all the time too. Makes no sense.

Maby because the reservoir is on the top and you want the new fluid to be there.

I would just have the bike rotated forward in the stand so the bars are lower than the rear caliper...

This is correct for just about any brake that's not an Avid/SRAM. The weird valving in SRAM levers means they probably won't take a bleed from the bottom as easily. All that messing with sucking fluid in and out and degassing the fluid as SRAM recommended in their earlier tutorials is fixing problems with oil flow through the brake system that other manufacturers engineered out before they sent the products for mass production. The real stand out feature of this bleed process where you realise the SRAM levers are definitely doing something weird is when he closes the bottom of the system and pumps more fluid into the lever. Oil is effectively incompressible, so the only way this is possible is if the reservoir in the lever is not filled properly by the bleed process and instead depends on extra pressure to get fluid into it. This would be termed an 'overbleed' if you did it with most brakes - they'd also most likely spit all the extra fluid back out as the diaphragm allowing for expansion in the lever would spring back to shape as soon as you remove the syringe from the lever.

After you see him pump more fluid into the lever/reservoir, why does it not all spurt back out when he releases the syringe? Is this process of pumping more into the lever critical and how do you know how much to pump in? Thanks. Apologies, only dealt with shimano brakes in the past and have Sram Code R's on the latest addition to the fleet.

Yes, I'd recommend flushing syringe & tubes with alcohol for 2 reasons. (1) alcohol is volatile and will easily and completely disappear over a short time. And (2) DOT fluid is caustic, so you don't want it contaminating & possible spreading over your stored service equipment. Not the end of the world if you store minimal DOT fluid in your service equipment. But it is hydrophilic (attracts water) and it is NOT volatile (like alcohol is) so, after a year, the DOT residue will still be there, it'll now be 'wet' and will grow in volume. Again, not a huge deal but if you start next year's flush with a wet residue of last year's DOT fluid, just make sure to do a few quick rinses of your 'contaminated' syringe & tubes with the SMALLEST amount of new, dry, DOT fluid. If, after sitting a year, the old residue is maybe 50%(?) water, after the first rinse, the new residue might only be 10% water. Then only 1% after 2nd rinse. Maybe 0.1% water after 2nd rinse.

Get Shimano if you haven't yet. Way easier to bleed and Shimano is a much higher quality. Sram kind of sucks!

RollinRat that’s crazy, SRAM is just as good as shimano, it’s all preference. I like SRAM axs over the shimano but some people like shimano. I have both break systems, on my madones I have the RED and on my trek supercaliper it has Shimano XT, both work just fine. I would of prefer SRAM break system on both so I wouldn’t have to have 2 different bleed systems. DOT vs Mineral. And all 3 of my bikes have SRAM AXS 12speed

marioslrzn This is my experience with Sram. Quality and QC must be suspect! What else can it be? I've been dealing with the same Sram recalled brakes for 5 years. My 2 shops alone have recalled hundreds of Guides and Levels in this time. My company, a large chain of shops in N. California have recalled thousands. Sram and Avid have always had tedious and finicky bleed procedures. Their brakes have always suffered issues from DOT fluid and seal issues over the long run. They just don't last for long. Shimano brakes by comparison last at least twice as long and suffer NO consistent recalls and bleed in 1/2 the time. Perfectly bled and proper functioning Sram do have the most refined feel at the lever, but functionally there's no difference. Reliability wise there is no comparison. I'm a former mechanical inspector and machinist. Ive built high reliability hardware all my career. I recognize actual quality. Sram isn't it.

isopropyl alcohol (C2H8O)