GO-ALRT | Demystified

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Күн бұрын

For our 10th episode of Demystified, we'll be looking into the past instead of the future, and take a look at a very interesting proposed project here in the GTHA - the GO-Advance Light Rapid Transit (GO-ALRT) project. Proposed in the 1980s, this would've been a first step in electrifying the GO network (something we are still taking the first steps in doing right now), and offered a very different transit option up north. Enjoy!
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=TIMESTAMPS=
00:00 Intro
00:45 The Original GO-ALRT Plan
03:14 Why It Wasn't Built
03:32 Proposed Vehicle Choices
05:53 Comparison to the REM
06:55 Costs of Building the Planned System
07:24 My Proposed GO-ALRT for Today
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Пікірлер: 59

@matteopennacchietti9831 3 жыл бұрын

This project should in some form 100% be built. It would transform the suburbs of the GTA for the better!

@mrrobot5963 3 жыл бұрын

GO RER is just as good.

@bencheung1287 2 жыл бұрын

Actually GTA area need more crosstown train service. Since there are more and more people are having suburb to suburb commuting.But I think we don’t need ALRT system. The easiest way, also the cheapest way is to extend the line 4 from Sheppard-Yonge to Sheppard West and from don mills to Malvern. The extended line 4 can work together as the line 6 finch LRT as a uptown horizontal subway line. So in future there are three horizontal train line in Toronto. Line 2 in downtown, line5 Eglington in midtown, and line 4 and line 6 will be in uptown. But I think TTC and YRT have to provide better bus connection service between York region and Upper Toronto with taljen 6 and line 4.

@pepperpillow Жыл бұрын

@@bencheung1287 Midtown line and GO ALRT North Ontario Line! Build lots of TOD around it!

@fernbedek6302 3 жыл бұрын

Would have been nice to have that rapid and frequent of a connection for Hamilton.

@alexanderip1003 3 жыл бұрын

I would have revived that transit plan in a heartbeat (GO Transit Midtown Electric Line)

@gmbrusselsprout 3 жыл бұрын

This was a great video and a great continuation of the lovely Future Of series! Can't wait for more content in the future! How likely do you think such a Fantasy Line is to materialize in the future, and are you worried about the future of Public Transit in a Post-COVID world?

@akivaplutno 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! I read about this a while ago on the Go transit website , under the history tab . Fascinating idea, that never reached fruition. It's a shame because I think this project could have changed Toronto transit, and spearheaded a better commuter rail system over all . I like the GO RER plan, and its very ambitious, but imagine if ALRT was built . It has so much potential . Also , I wish other North American cities, (Boston, Chicago, New York) would take a serious approach to improving commuter rail like Toronto is doing.

@randomcontentgenerator2331 3 жыл бұрын

I found this style of demystified video very enjoyable. If you have any other never-built transit plans, you should make more videos like this!

@mr51406 3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting and very well presented! ⭐️ 3:42 “Something we are just get around to in 2020.” Yes, unfortunately, still thinking about setting up a committee to explore the possibility to make an opportunity analysis for funding a pre-feasibility study... But the glossy brochure is gorgeous! 😜 I have some 70s and 80s brochures and maps for Montreal... Montreal was to get a regional metro too: The De Belleval plan. 🍏 I always objected to the REM’s colour. Everyone wants to be a bit green... It should have been the “R for red” line of course. 🍎 The future is of course orbital lines for transit. London Overground seems quite successful. It’s a traditional train style system but they have experience, infrastructure, and especially demand. Here it’s more futuristic, which means it’s always 10 years away... Please dabble in more cool “what if” maps, I ❤️ it! It sad to see all the opportunities we missed. But comforted to see some “bright” ideas we avoided. (Monorail!🤐) 4:33 Totally unrelated: I’m also a lighting fan and it’s the 1st time I’ve seen Quebec-style highway lampposts elsewhere.

@cooltrainsinmontreal4883 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, so you're Electrifying GO, Montreal has som lightly used engines and some gently run into the ground MU trainsets to sell for a bargain

@wilfstor3078 3 жыл бұрын

Honestly I wouldn't mind the MR-90s in Toronto. No matter how run down you suggest they are.

@mrrobot5963 3 жыл бұрын

We could use the locomotives but we don't need your EMUs

@adammurphy6845 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating topic!

@fauzirahman3285 3 жыл бұрын

With my eastern hemisphere centric view of the world, I don't even know some of these places exist, let alone the systems that they were considering. I wonder if in an alternate universe, the GO ALRT would have been built, or if it was just meant to be a pipe dream but it looked really ahead of its time. On another note, I'm still not used to that double-decked railway design.

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

I love the double decked design haha!

@ketch_up 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty cool video. Makes sense, given the longer distance, to push for non-linear motors, allowing the higher service speed. Would you see a comparison to German S-bahn trains?

@mattl.7159 3 жыл бұрын

The idea of taking a ICTS train to Toronto from Hamilton sounds uncomfortable. It was probably better to keep things as heavy rail as it allows for less restricted expansion of GO rail service in addition to keeping the lines passable for freight traffic.

@asiaworldcity 3 жыл бұрын

Oh no, I just simply cannot imagine riding Scarborough RT for over an hour! It sounds like it is going to break apart any second! I think is even worse than BART, the wheels are constantly making noise and zero soundproofing! I must say it sounds like horrifying idea to use the first gen ICTS train in this project. I bet it would require complete redesign of the structure, propulsion system and more.

@akivaplutno 3 жыл бұрын

The problem was the ICTS was never upgraded like the Skytrain in Vancouver.

@zeighy 3 жыл бұрын

@@akivaplutno exactly!

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but as mentioned in the video the plan was never to use ICTS trains

@mattl.7159 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit Regardless, they would have been very similar to ICTS trains or the REM's Alstom Metropolis. Having commuters and regional travelers ride on the hard seats in crush-load oriented interior layouts provided by this type of rolling stock would have been a substantial downgrade. This is a problem with the REM that has not and may never be addressed.

@ayindestevens6152 3 жыл бұрын

Nice What if episode.

@thegreypenguin5097 3 жыл бұрын

6:50 those new REM trains tho :heart:

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

Stay tuned to see them tonight IRL!

@thegreypenguin5097 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit haha I saw them on Montreal Gazzette when they posted them on FB. Correction: rem posted the rem trains on fb and also Twitter and MG put online

@thegreypenguin5097 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit but I'll be sure to watch ur video!

@Realistic_Management 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting to see what GO Transit might have been like...on another note, are you familiar with the Melbourne Suburban Rail-loop? It's got to be one of the most ambitious public transport projects in the world. They just moved ahead with budgeting and early works are beginning next year. That would be good for a Demystified video.

@steveschijns3204 3 жыл бұрын

The real impetus for GO-ALRT was the unsatisfactory arrangement with having to run GO trains on the CN-owned Lakeshore line. The GOALRT option was a bit of a bargaining chip; when the province finally bought the Lakeshore corridor from CN they could operate it as GO wished, and consequently didn't need to develop the parallel ALRT system. In a functional sense, running a new rail line (particularly an electrified one) in a Hydro corridor was never going to work; Hydro One jealously guards their right-of-way and refuses to allow new roads or transit lines alongside the towers. Furthermore, you can't generate the transit-supportive land uses at major stations with a wide hydro right-of-way as a central spine; the ALRT guideway would need to come off the hydro corridor in such hubs. I do note that GO-ALRT plans were expanded to include things like a line along Hurontario Street, now (35 years later) being built as LRT.

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

I think a line on a hydro corridor could work very well, we’d just need to be more creative

@steveschijns3204 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit Having planned and designed transit facilities within and across hydro corridors in the GTA, I can assure you that creativity has little to do with it. It is $0.5 - 1.0 M to shift one high voltage tower. Hydro's rules preclude a structure (e.g. bus facility) under the lines. Burying 630 kV lines is prohibitively expensive, and you couldn't build atop buried lines in any case. Hydro One also rejects the idea of a transit line running within their ROW. And certainly an LRT with electric overhead power would be a no go. So although it may look good on a map, nothing will happen without provincial changes to the rules under which Hydro One owns and operates their corridors.

@RipCityBassWorks 3 жыл бұрын

Wow, that system would have been so far ahead of its time if it had been built. Skytrain + BART with decent headways is probably the ideal commuter rail system.

@behradsor2783 3 жыл бұрын

you and Vanishing Underground should work together

@MasterM0le 3 жыл бұрын

Why arent they expanding the Scarborough RT into a little skytrain system for Scarborough?

@metropolitantransit7276 3 жыл бұрын

Lack of spares ever since TTC used 4-car trains and Bombardier discontinued the Mark-1. TTC planned to buy Mark-2 and 3 trains but politicians don't want the noise caused by the Mark-1 but in my opinion, Mark-3 trains are not as noisy as Mark-1 trains. TTC wanted to buy Mark-1s from Skytrain as spares but Skytrain refused to sell its Mark-1s. This is why they planned the subway extension, and you need to think about capacity too as Mark-1 trains can hold the same amount as a bus.

@jayvonnoelsmith8445 6 ай бұрын

Yea true

@Br0nxfr 3 жыл бұрын

HOT

@jayvonnoelsmith8445 6 ай бұрын

The Go Alrt should been built it would of been so awesome if they built it

@robwillie226 3 жыл бұрын

YYZed

@Nouvellecosse 3 жыл бұрын

I definitely want to see the orbital created, but a metro line with such a huge length would have low ridership per km since it wouldn't be anywhere near most of the city's densest areas. I think it would be best to stick with the hydro corridor rather than having all that super-costly tunneling. In terms of Shepperd, I'm not convinced it would be a great idea to convert it since the stations would be a bit close together for a long distance, high-speed express line. It just seems like an excuse to put repurposed the underused infrastructure, but I don't think that should be the orbital's responsibility nor would it improve the line. I think a few short tunnel sections to facilitate transfers such as at Finch and Finch West would be sufficient. Also, I'd rather see the line continue south along the hydro corridor to the Kipling subway station rather than to Mississauga and allow Eglinton LRT to continue west to Mississauga.

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

If the line doesn't continue to Miss. It's not a true Orbital, there is no substantial difference in density from Etobicoke to Miss., You don't need to be near density for ridership either, you need to be near destinations and transfer points which this line would be, and it would also hit some dense nodes too . . .

@Nouvellecosse 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit It would have high ridership; what I said is that it wouldn't have high ridership per km, and that is definitely true (at least compared to urban rapid transit like the Yonge or BD lines). That's because it will be extremely long, meaning that it will need to keep the cost per km under control in order to be a reasonable investment. Also, there's no rule that says an orbital needs to surround an entire metro area rather than just part of one such as the city proper. Especially when you're talking about a metro area that isn't even circular lol. If you look up the term orbital line, it's simply just a circle line that provides transfer points between the radial lines and allows people to travel between outer destinations without either passing through the city centre or exiting the rail network . If anything, my proposal is more of true orbital since it would connect to the BD line and be closer to a circle. Also, it should probably be extended south far enough to also connect the LSW.

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

Not connecting to Mississauga is the issue with that as I pointed out

@Nouvellecosse 3 жыл бұрын

@@RMTransit To be clear, I think your version is still great and would be a huge improvement over the status quo! I'm not dismissing it; just pointing out how it could be improved. I just don't consider it important for an orbital to serve every individual destination. The goal is mainly to improve travel between points outside the central city by providing transfers between different lines. Mississauga would have plenty of access to the orbital since it would connect to Eglinton which would be extended onto the busway to MCC and would also connect to several busy Mississauga bus routes at Kipling. Not to mention connection to Milton line. But I'll take either version lol

@RMTransit 3 жыл бұрын

@@Nouvellecosse I suppose, however there are already NS links and EW links in Toronto and in the regions South, we are really lacking a northern EW link!

@metropolitantransit7276 3 жыл бұрын

The GO ALRT would've produced less noise than the MP40 used by GO Transit.

@jayvonnoelsmith8445 6 ай бұрын

Yes true

@HSMiyamoto 3 жыл бұрын

These circumferential rapid transit line ideas never seem to get far, at least in North America. Los Angeles Green and Crenshaw LRT might be the only rail transit lines that don't "go downtown". Maybe count Chicago's Paulina Connector, the Hudson-Bergen LRT, the Camden River Line and a few subway lines in Brooklyn and Queens. Even in San Jose and San Diego, one must transfer to get across the east side of the city by rail, even though it is physically possible to run a train straight through. It's also possible to make a loop in San Francisco, but again, by transferring; Muni is also not fast on the surface.

@akivaplutno 3 жыл бұрын

Hi, there are only 3 subway lines that do not go into Manhattan at anytime of the day . Franklin Ave Shuttle , Rockaway Park Shuttle and the G line .

@HSMiyamoto 3 жыл бұрын

@@akivaplutno Yeah, I knew there is more than one, but Im not a NYC subway expert. Thanks for the clarification.

@akivaplutno 3 жыл бұрын

@@HSMiyamoto no problem. Glad I could help

@guldukat2453 3 жыл бұрын

As well as Montreal Blue Line, which serves Montréal north island exclusively.