Fantastic video! Thanks for letting us swing by to rave about our favorite Dad of Boy of God of War! -R&B

"They have a son named Atreus." Um, excuse you, but his name is Boy.

I always found that the “cringe” dialogue during Atreus’s power trip was supposed to be cringe inducing cause that’s the attitude we all had at that age and it was cringe worthy to everyone around us back then.

I almost forgot what channel I was watching and then of course: "Zuko is the best redemption arc ever written in the history of fiction." Oh yeah.

Tim: Makes a video about God of War Also Tim: somehow fits Avatar in

What I love about that line, “the cycle ends here,” Kratos is quoting Zeus. A real sign of Kratos’ story returning to a very critical point in his life.

Something about the weapons meaning you did not mention, is that the two weapons kratos use, represent both his new and old mindset and ways: --Blades of chaos: young kratos, chaining him like a prisoner of his own actions. As his rage, they burn everything they touch, they do damage fast and in a very wide are, not only the target, but anything remotely close to it, symbolizing all the collateral damage kratos have done in his quest for vengeance without even thinking about it. Anything attacked by them it burns into ashes. --Leviathan axe: an ice weapon, just as kratos wants to be able to keep his cool and control himself. the axe is slower but more precisely just as kratos experience and age changed his combat style to be more focused, the weapon deals damage only to close targets (allowing him to not hurt atreus by mistake). Also being able to be thrown precisely to specific targets very accurately. This weapon doesn't consume his enemies, but leaves them frozen in place, allowing kratos the time to think if the enemies really need to be put down or can be shown mercy.

The reason video game scripts are shorter than books is because the environments, characters, character movements, objects, are all visually shown to you. Games typically don't narrate what the characters are thinking. In games, we mainly need to focus on dialogue. And the action scenes... well, those are up to the player.

I feel like I need to add something to just how great the entire “retrieving the Blades of Chaos” scene/gameplay is. I feel like I’ve seen many people discuss this topic but I haven’t seen someone touch on it. Red and Blue come close here by talking about how it felt using the Blades to now down enemies just like the old games, giving a sense of catharsis. It did more than that, though. The attack combos are all identical to the first games. This was more than everything that’s discussed in this video: it’s also a love letter to the fans that have been here since the beginning. As soon as I was able to use the Blades, I began inputting combos I remember and each animation was exactly what I expected it to be. I knew how to use these weapons because I was the one who led Kratos to this story. I knew how the abilities I would unlock worked because they all tied in to the previous iterations. This scene wasn’t just Kratos getting his past weapons back; this was about ME getting MY past weapons back. Idk who might read this since it’ll be buried by others, but I’ve been wanting to say this since I experienced that moment in the game. I hope anyone who does read this got to also experience that cathartic, nostalgic blast.

To be fair to jormungandr being in the story Norse myth runs on a circular timeline rather than a straight on. It's weird but within reason under Norse rules.

So I had played the previous GoW games, I grew up with them. When I got the blades of Exile back, I LOST. MY. MIND. That moment blew me away as well, and I think it's because I'd literally played through everything they represented, and I had actually felt detached from them in the new game because Kratos as a character was trying to move on, and in a weird way his new weapon (axe) felt like a representation of that in the gameplay "things are different now... Get used to it" so the return of the twin blades had such an impact on me emotionally.

I personally didn't have problems with the pacing at. I thought the way their goal kept getting away from them help creating tension and higher stakes, and fitted into the "Mythological Epic" feel that the game had, kinda like the Odyssey

Me hearing someone praising Christopher Judge's acting as Kratos: "Indeed."

Every time I hear Athena say: "You will always be a monster" I break down a little bit. A wonderfully delivered line and a fantastic response by Chris Judge.

Amazing video Tim! Would love to hear your thoughts on Red Dead Redemption 2 and Arthurs story

I would be super down to see a simmilar deep dive into Horizon: Zero Dawn. I think that game did a fantastic job of writing a story.

I'm fairly certain that the "death bird" in Helheim is actually the Nameless Eagle who sits atop Yggdrasil and is continually verbally sparring with Nidhoggr the serpent trapped beneath Yggdrasil's roots courtesy of the meddlesome squirrel Ratatoskr(who is a summon). If so, that implies that in God of War's version of Norse myth, Helheim, of all places, is at the (metaphorical) summit of the World Tree and therefore all the realms. When I showed my brother(who is much more versed in Norse myth than me) the view from Helheim gate, he quickly made the same guess as to the bird's identity.

The destruction of the portal to Jotunheim can be interpreted as a metaphor for the frailty of Kratos and Atreus' relationship. At this point, they're nowhere near to be in tune with each other. They're not yet "worthy" to complete their journey, and their kinship in front of the open portal is fake, only a facade. Kratos destroying the portal and Atreus betraying him shows that their relationship was unstable and broke at the slightest bump on the road. This scene, and more precisely the fall that comes right after it, was particularly powerful to me. The adult fear of having your child taken away from you, with the tense music to hammer the point in... Not to mention that Kratos' jump mirrors his attempt at suicide in the very first game, when he "cast himself from the highest mountain in all of Greece". In the original God of War, Kratos jumped because he had lost all hope, but here he jumps to save what is probably his last glimmer of hope.

I always found it odd that a big part of Kratos' arc was being honest with his son of who he was,all the wrong that he's done and that it ends with him saying " I have nothing left to hide". However that's not true at all, Kratos still has one shameful secret that he has yet to divulge: the murder of his wife and daughter. Barlog and the rest of the team were so detailed in Krato's shameful past that I was surprised that their murder wasn't revealed in Hel instead of Zeus since Kratos never even cared for his father for being an absentee father and imprisoning his brother Demos ( not to mention cursing his mother that turned her into a monster that tried to kill her own son ). Barlog and the team were so meticulous that this can't be an oversight. I'm thinking they'll hold onto this for the sequel and use it as one last potential divide between Kratos and Atreus, one last hidden truth that his son just cannot take.

It's interesting the disparity between the beginning of the video and the middle where you start talking about the obstacles in the course of the game. IN the opening you describe the story as a "journey story", yet as you talk about obstacles the overarching narrative of the two characters learning to work together seems to diminish in importance. That's what all of those obstacles are. They're deviations from the main objective yes, but intentionally so. They exist to get in the way, to frustrate the relationship so that it can change and grow. This is best demonstrated with the light of Alfheim (one you found the most problematic). It forced the undercurrent of distrust and distance between the two characters to be brought out into the open. If every roadblock in the course of the journey was a shallow and simple problem it would lead to a shallow and simple narrative. The plot doesn't move forward, true. But as you say, it's a very simple plot with a single goal. These deviations and redirections from that goal exist not to move the plot forward, but to move the *story* forward. Despite having only a single objective, the story is one that doesn't just chug along in a straight line but one that unfolds in all directions. It allows Kratos' story to develop, Atreus', Freya and Baldur's, the dwarves'. And all of it to support the greater narrative theme, generally of family but more specifically of being a parent.

*sees him post* Me: yes! *Sees that OverlySarcasticProduction is in it* Me: OH HELL YEAH!

I love your videos and a lot of the time I agree with you, but some of your criticism here seems to isolated. After all you are correct about the major emotional goal, but there’s another plot every bit as important. The Gods hunting Kratos and Atreus. Right after the funeral and failed hunting trip Balder arrives at the house and sets up the inciting action for that thread. It’s also important to realize what series this is, it’s God of War, and this trilogy is Fey’s revenge. She marked the trees that she wanted cut down, the ones protecting their corner of the woods from anyone else. She actually masterminded the whole thing. Once you cut them down Odin can find you, when he does it sets events in motion that lead to everything in the game. You are actually sent to find Mimir, even though you never know that’s what you’re doing. Similarly, Fey knew you’d encounter the Black Breathe. All those climbing markers you’ve been seeing, they’ve all been placed there by her. She’s been playing the Gods against each other, including you and Atreus. When you consider how that recontextualizes the entire experience it’s clear that those things aren’t the game being a video game, it’s the greater story being explored, and without the player realizing it. Even things like Niflhiem are actually relevant background work and relevant to Sindri and his story arc. It’s not a case of one goal being stretched as much as several goals overlapping, and the bad guys having planned for that eventuality

God of War has been one of my favorite video game franchises of all time. Partly because I am a mythology nerd. I remember playing this game and I was almost at the end and I was like "Where is Loki? How can you make a video game about Norse mythology without Loki?" And BOY was I in for a surprise. This has been the most satisfying plot twist I've ever seen.

A few years ago, my brother and I went on a multi-day hike in the Sierra Nevada mountains to scatter our grandfather's ashes there at various locations along the trails he loved. This game really hit me hard, most of all at the end when they finally scatter the ashes. It reminded me of a particular moment when we stood in a mountain saddle and did the same. Also, those grapple combat controls were absolute fucking *jank,* it's not just you.

Of course there's an Avatar comparison lmao

An interesting point about the retrieval of the Blades of Chaos. The combos for them are identical to the old games. At this point in the game, you've gotten used to the Leviathan Axe, so as you pick up the weapons of the past you feel as the player like "Okay, let's see if I remember how to do this". This is an additional layer to an already amazing scene.

#youreanoobtim

I reckon there's also a lot of interesting stuff to talk about in regards to masculinity and the deconstruction and rebuilding of masculinity as seen through kratos

the subtle nod to issues related to masculinity and mental health that is a father hiding forearm scarrs being the direct cause of his son's illness is just... fenomenal storytelling

A crossover featuring two of my favorite channels IS IT MY BIRTHDAY?!

Yes it was so amazing to have the blades back but something I feel people keep forgetting or just didn't notice. When kratos unearthed them I felt myself wanting to cry with both joy and grief. Joy because my boys are back grief because his curse his back. He hates the blades every time he tries to get rid if them they find their way back to him. He killed his wife and daughter with these wary blades, everything that went wrong in his life started with these blades. He was finally moving on. Just when it seemed like he could live his life away from it all like always they find a way back into his hands. The shivers and the conflicting emotions were so amazing. I've never seen anyone talk about this it makes me feel like I'm the only one and that I might have misunderstood kratos...

24:00-24:46 I don't really mind. I'm going to scatter ashes. The narrative is just getting to know the head and doing things with the boy along with the changing mood of the boy and how kratos reacts to that. Each step was to scatter the ashes and see more development of dad and boy. Knowing that made me feel like there was progression. I can see how you would want more from the story because this adventure is simple and cuts off were it's just getting better but as faw as progress gose I felt it.

I’d be very curious to see what you think of Dark Souls. It’s a very different story structure for gaming.

Wait, wouldn't Atreus have still gotten sick even if Kratos had told him he was a god? I mean he was a giant and NO ONE knew. Wouldn't that have resulted in some sort of physiological identity crisis illness as well? The game never actually states that he thinks he's human, but he was kept in the dark on BOTH halves of his heritage. Not just the Olympian side.

11:23 it's very well urn-ed

I think my favorite thing about this game is that even when it contradicts Norse mythology, it’s clear that those contradictions are done intentionally and not out of ignorance.

I love theorizing on the war of Alfheim. The light elves recognize the spiritual power of the light, while the dark elves recognize the material power. You think the light elves would be the ones in the right, and originally they were, but over time they became obsessed with spirituality and forgot about the real world altogether. The leaders abandon their people to spend all their time basking in the light. Then the dark elves rose up, took down the light elves, and shut out the light, using it for greater benefit. They abandon the spirit world in order to embrace the real one.

Man playing this video game by myself after school while waiting for my mom and dad to come home really hit different on my first playthrough. When I finished the game I gave my dad a big old hug lol, made me appreciate my parents so much more

OK in regards to the part of Tyr's temple being hollow. You're absolutely wrong. Were you not paying attention during that scene? When Kratos opens that wine cask, his daughter's flute theme plays. Showing that he's reflecting on his past family and feeling nostalgic, before it transitions to the ominous music of the old games when he sees the vase. It's amazing audible story telling. Plus, when Mimir talks about Tyr in his temple, it plays a key role in Atreus's finding his equilibrium and humility.

Do a world building video on the game Hollow Knight. The amount of lore in that game is staggering (and the game itself is amazing. Joseph Anderson himself made two videos on it)

I like your bit on the pacing, artificially adding prerequisites to goals. How do you feel, then, about how Breath of the Wild was structured? You could, technically, go after the last boss immediately after the "tutorial" bit.

Doesn't kratos only finds out faye was from jotunhiem after meeting mimir? So it would make sense that he didn't know that she wanted them to go to jotunhiem.

the argument about the obstacles neglects the fact that each trial to get said items fleshes out the world hints at storylines for the next game and is entirely significant to the lore and character arcs of Kratos and Atreus

Ugh! Not only did you include one of my other favorite writing focused channels but you actually made me love this game even more than I already did. Your critiques we're well founded and valid - and I honestly learned a lot. Definitely one of my favorite videos from you.

Great stuff. I really connected with the side quest problem, because for me, all of these sub versions from the story gave focus to the true end game (kratos and atreus's relationship growing) and gave vital time and context to that growth. So I can kind of see it from both sides. Excellent video. Ever heard of horizon: zero dawn?????? 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

Great video, I really like this video. I would like to mention that I have a slight disagreement with how you presented the 'side quest problem.' Perhaps I blinked and the section, is mostly premised on the story elements and omitting any game play progression. Admittedly that's your area of interest so no real blame. I would like to see more like this, even in a shorter form. Snippets of other stuff you care about.

Excelent job, as always. I've been hoping that you would go over this game sometime, but this was great.

wow, you clearly put a LOT of effort into this video, and having "red & blue" do some explaining was really enjoyable! absolutely loved the video!

My God, this was absolutely phenomenal. Now I'm sitting here with tears rolling down my cheeks and I don't know why. I'm so excited for the next game!!

God of War is one of my favourite games of recent years, so I really enjoyed this critique. Also I'm a big mythology nerd as well so major props for the mythology section.

I've also just finished God of War 4. It's cool to still see videos on it because it's such an amazing game!

This video was phenomenal. I love your content and IMO this might be your best video yet.

I love when you three collab cuz like ITS ALL MY FAVES

When you guys collaborate... I feel like I have all 3 of my favorite story teachers in the same classroom

Great collab! I've been missing these

Still so amazing. Great analysis! More of this, please!! :D I may not be a member of your Patreon group but I hope watching as a premium user helps. (y)

If we're gonna call 1917 and death stranding masterpieces than God of war is most definitely a full blown masterpiece, not just almost. Because I don't think either of those were more than 'great', at best. In fact personally I'd rate them lower.

0:56 hahahahaaaa, You Overly Sarcastic and Joseph anderson. Right now the World feels like a small Apartmentroom.

This was great! I'd like to see you do more videos on video games, there are a lot of great stories in that medium.

I would argue that the"sidequest" problem isn't a problem at all, but the POINT. Yes, Kratos and Atreus are on a mission to get to Jotunheim, but this is one of those "journey over destination" stories. All the detours from the main quest serve the purpose of exploring different aspects of their relationship, putting them to the test, and ultimately teach them how to be father and son. Getting to Jotunheim feels good not because we overcome the obstacles and get there, but because Kratos and Atreus go TOGETHER, they have grown and changed throughout the story.

I’d be excited to see more analysis of other games like Horizon Zero Dawn or The Last of Us! You have such lovely insight to storytelling and I love seeing it done with games

Opening the hidden chambers is a "MINOR PART OF THE GAME" WTF?! It´s not all about Story, GoW REALLLY shines when we are talking about the combat, THAT´S the reason why people finish the game over and over and over again. And the valkyries are a MAJOR part of that, especially Sigrun is one of the best boss battles in video game history. Receiving the chisel is always one the achievements you are looking most foward to during the playthrough, because that´s the moment when you have the pleasure to finally visit the valkyries again.

Remember me is one of my favourite games. Always great to see it mentioned!

I love massive video game dissection videos, I just finished a Skyrim one so this ones up

Hello, Hello Future Me, I love ur channel and everything that you have done along with Overly Sarcastic Productions - little shoutout to them - but I was wondering if you could do something over character arcs over the course of a trilogy as I have a book that I have been working on that will eventually have a character that will be in a trilogy but I didn't know how to work on his/her character arc without it seeming like a drag over the course of three books Is it possible to have an overall arc for the trilogy but sub arcs for each singular book? Just needing a little suggestions P. S. Sorry for the long message P. P. S. Love the constant Avatar references - don't light up -

An Old theory about Kratos’ character is that he really is a fusion of the unborn son is of Zeus and Metis and Loki’s Father

Ahh this was such an amazing game I had so much fun with it also I'm always happy to see hear red and blue talk about mythos

I love the "Overdue Critique" videos, I really hope you keep making them. Also, of course, you would fit ATLA into a God of War video.

"It's not about the destination, it's about the journey"

Omg omg omg overly sarcastic productions colab!! 🥰🥰🥰🥰

Thanks for the video! I finished the game on my own in the last days sooo... perfect timing:D

I finally got around to watching a play through of this game, and thus have returned to this video so I can now watch it without spoilers :D

Kratos: "My son and I just went to the highest mountain to spread my wife's ashes." Stranger: "My condolences for your loss. Glad to see you and your son had a safe and swift journey." Kratos: "Yes..."

Now, can we Imagine the guy with the Flaming sword is not Syrtyr but actually Kratos? We can get a lot of recognition if we canonise the Muspelheim trials

Nice to see two of my favorite KZfaq channels together.

I feel you with that elf boss that one took me the longest on my Give Me God of War run

You always make an Avatar comparison XD Do you also do that when someone asks you what time it is?

What exactly are the limitations of games that you’re mentioning? As far as I can think of, it seems that games offer the least limitations of any medium

this video is a gem, I love your work

I'd be 100% thankful if an” on writing” episode focused on applying the series to video games. I’ve been using the series to world build and think about how to do my stories, but since it's for the medium of video games it would be great to know how to adapt it.

19:33 Discovery writing!

Hmm, just off the bat before the video starts, I know that the game did to mythology what the originals did to greek mythology, which is to say, take the spirit of it and ignore all the details. I mean, I love it, but it's in line with the Thor Ragnarok philosophy of myth. I particularly loved this game because of the father/son relationship, which I never really got to experience as a kid, and it was really fulfilling to see Kratos' rage fueled vision of a particular kind of masculinity, it's also really nice to see Kratos become rounder as he grows, it gives me hope for my own identity, not only as a man, but as an incredibly flawed person. It is heartening in general to see dad characters not only in a positive light, but in a redemptive light too, a role that requires learning and changing, not pure stoicism. I love its simplicity too, my only real critique of the game is that it feels pretty short. I'll come back after the video is done and see if I was on the same page :P Huh, I had no idea about Laufey's husband, that's really cool! Also, I do remember feeling cheated when Kratos and Baldur destroyed the gate, I think the pacing criticism is a good one which I totally overlooked. I only really enjoyed the story as narrative the first and maybe second time through, but well over half of my time with the game was just playing for the sake of the joy of the playing. So I kind of forgot the narrative hiccups, since my engagement was primarily different than my first playthrough. It's kind of the nature of the medium, and I think you're right, they could be tighter, the sidequest structure could be tightened up to the story. Aelfheim is definitely the weakest part of the game for me, as narrative and gameplay, so I'm with you there. I pin that in particular on development restrictions... aelfheim being essentially a long hallway you walk down, and then walk back through, seems contrived on a level the rest of the game didn't. Still a legit ciriticism though. I do wish, in general, that there were more npcs. The ones we got were great, but we needed more interaction between the settings and the arc, which as you said, would be heightened by giving us an emotional hook for our presence there, as opposed to somewhere else. Fuck me though, when GoW '18 does tie setting and character together, it really nails it. The Blades of Chaos retrieval is indeed fantastic, and I loved it so much. I rarely have such a physiological reaction to media, but when we hear his old theme, as unwraps the blades, I was shivering. Gooseflesh, tears. I also get where you're coming from, where Kratos doesn't really have a redemptive arc for his own sake... which is honestly something I identify with. I've had a really shitty life, and at the end of the day, running away is really the only thing you can do, at a certain point. Running from my abusive family, abusive friend circles, abusive work, there's a point at which you just can't fix things. You have to start again, and like Kratos says, do better. That's kind of the philosophy that has rescued me from nearly a decade of suicidality. I felt Kratos' journey to be strong enough to really, earnestly start again, deeply, in a way I rarely get with typical redemptive arcs. It's a similar experience I've had reading the Stormlight Archive, following Dalinar's unfolding arc. You can't fix anything... it's about the next step, and making sure that one is the right one. Anyways... I loved the video Tim! and it was great to hear OSP too, I loved their playthrough of GoW '18! Thanks, guys :)

KRATOS' "Leviathan Axe" & "Gauntlet w/Retractable Shield" are two of my favorite weapons/tools in fiction. I want a technological modern shield that can expand/retract like that. The Leviathan Axe's "ICE JOTUN" powerset is badaas

Looool the picture you used for the ashes in your story structure graphic in part 3 is a mining urn, an item from RuneScape 3

What if aang woke up after the comet passed? The world would need him most after the Phoenix King destroyed the earth kingdom.

i also identify as a professional mythology nerd :D

14:50 I played this game fresh off GoW3 This section was real throwback to those games and it felt pretty natural.

I would like to put forth the argument that all of the back and forth with the various conditionals is narratively engaging as it directly shows the lengths that Tyr went to to hide the Realm of the Giants from Odin, making it nearly impossible to access and Odin's paranoia that some one would challenge him that he would place his own roadblocks to prevent anyone from ever finding out what he is actually doing.

#youreanoobtim But also great review! It’s a great game and I loved your take on it! 😊

I haven't read all of the history of fiction, but I think Speaker for the Dead is an even better redemption story than Zuko's, and Ender REALLY did something that needed redemption

Very well done video, I highly enjoyed it.

Two of my favourite KZfaq channels collaborating... heck yes!!

TBF, I think that Devil May Cry 3 does a better job at telling a story, but in the same genre. Also, thanks for making such thorough videos!

I really enjoyed this, but I wish you'd talked a bit more about how rushed and out of nowhere Atraeus' arrogance was. That always bugged me

My takeaway: in any narrative, especially a game, if you're going to change the pace, have a story reason to do so. Other cool points too, but ones that are touched on in other videos or [more rarely] i've intuitively picked up on from consuming well written content

This was great. I'd love to hear your critiques of Hollow Knight, particularly on the worldbuilding

"The other worlds have no bearing on the relationship between Atreus and Kratos" did you even play the game?

Dark Souls... 100 page script. 5000 pages of lore.

The fight on the back of the dragon was frustrating and felt awkward, but that awkwardness also felt appropriate given the context. Kratos's perspective was turned upside-down, both literally and metaphorically. In the literal sense, he has no proper footing on the back of the dragon. When the dragon is gaining altitude, he's literally upside-down and having to fight Baldur at the same time. Metaphorically, Kratos has lost control of Atreus to the Spartan Rage and risks repeating the same cycle of patricide that ran in his family (Zeus killing Cronus, Kratos killing Zeus).

I hope you make more videos like this in the future :)