Vocal longevity is not a value for us, the audiences. Vocal excellence is the goal. If a particular singer can excell for thirty years, good on him/her. If It is just for ten years, let's enjoy those ten years and then look for another excellent one.

I don’t necessarily agree with the whole discarding of singers after they burn out, especially when young. If an artist has great technique, they’ll have consistent and thrilling performances because they’ll have all of the colors and dynamics their voice is capable of. The highs, the lows, the pianissimi and fortissimi.

@@robert111k We should certainly not confuse self destruction with dramatic thrill. Music is not a demolition derby. With the exception of Souliotis, the "good" singers had long careers because the artistry of their singing was safer than hurling untamed passions at the audience.

@@Twisterjoe In other words, vocal excellence is vocal health!

La agresta sembra quasi mezzo tono sotto la freni

@@raynardi2326 It’s core versus woofy ”mellow”

No she was a dark lyric squeeking high notes and then a wobbly tiny ridiculous something else wannabe.

Exactly! In all her early recordings she sang from the chest- only after 1975 did she start pushing into the mask. But the same can be said of Callas and Tebaldi.

I must agree. As a Verdi singer I was taught that all of Verdi is rooted in the Belcanto. Slender, legato singing. Released high notes. Open throat and steady airflow.Then, the voice must be Big enough Naturally. No trying to simulate size of instrument. Freni!!

yasss, i agree, I love her deep chesty voice

Yes! But i like Sinyavskaya more!

My favorite mezzo.

@@joemcbob9688 I love her low notes very much.

@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 I just love everything about her to be honest.

Harteros is a lyric doing almost everything wrong

Llopart.

And all of them made some wrong choices…

Scotto's is still not a live performance of the opera either, it is only a concert. Regardless good technique is good technique; being outside of a a studio setting doesn't suddenly make you incapable of correctly pronouncing vowels.

Absofreakinglutely agree!

What is the name of the aria that they’re singing?

It was unfair.. but scotto sang that role at the end of her career and she was just terrible. Soulitis better but she was young.. and it four years she could not sing

@@iluvpepi It’s “Una macchia è qui tuttora”, the mad scene from the Verdi’s opera Macbeth. You do should listen to it sung by Callas.

I saw her Lady M also. It was so incredibly compelling. Her musicality, and use of pianissimo to convey the wilting femininity, and sensuality became the silenced terror of her sleepwalking scene. Somehow one did not hear the flaws in the voice when watching her total performance. I don't remember a single quaver in the house, but I hear them on recording. She was a power on stage that I miss. And as Lady M, in one of her on stage bows to the floor in character, one of her breasts fell out of her costume, in a delightful wardrobe malfunction. She seemed to giggle and just pop it back in. She was so comfortable with herself on the stage.

She just don’t had half of the voice required for her chosen roles… Horrible.

And sadly she's the soprano on so many recordings with an otherwise good cast.

@@catbird-dq7ri If you ever heard her in the house you would know why she had a thirty year career, just made some very bad chooses of roles at the last ten years of it.

Michael Phelps was generally way better than any other swimmer in his era. We didn’t say “oh well he’s just so much better than everyone, so let’s just focus our attention to a more ‘average’ swimmer instead.” No we celebrated him as he broke records and become the most decorated Olympian ever, still the most decorated swimmer to this day. And we didn’t say he’s too good to be the bar. No everyone, swimmers and spectators, raised the bar, as has always been done by athletes as world records are constantly broken. We acknowledge that they stood above the rest, we celebrate them, and we study them to try and understand their greatness so that others might one day surpass it and viewers can continue to be thrilled and excited. So yes, she may have been much much better than everyone else singing in her time, so that’s all the more reason to hold it up as a standard, to try to understand it and learn from it, rather than to say whelp she was just too good, let’s not waste our time trying to learn from it.

She's auditioning for you here 😉 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7ZzpseS0Ky6o4E.htmlsi=52uq9xjWNJc10hsK

she tried to embody maria callas at great costs to her voice. this was a pity, she had a beautiful voice, very intense low register and a pure higher tones

Yes, at 1:59. He was getting ready for it a few instants earlier and it was too noticeable for good acting.

Her Norma at Carnegie was a hot mess - she didnt really recover from that

It would have been unusual if Kaufmann DIDN'T start to make an extremely ingolato attack. He's a great artist, but he's certainly not the best example of good singing technique around.

@@pietrobrunetto334 Which are the best examples of good singing technique in your opinion? It's been years since I last heard on stage live singing from the chest instead of the nose, or even good covering.

No, it's Mae West: "When I m good, I'm very good; but when I m bad I'm better."

You render what is, in my opinion, too harsh a critique. It is easy to attack singers. We all try to do our best. If some people fall short, it is NOT a character flaw. If we think one girl is prettier than another, it is not because of any virtue in one or lack of goodness in another. Much of what we are we are born with. Charity goes a long way in commentary.

Freni always had an intrinsically beautiful voice, though and through and Agresta's voice is definitely not anywhere as beautiful. I therefore also find the criticism about her sing being good or bad as not hitting the mark, Some singers just have more beautiful voice timbres than others.

​@@russpenney5775 Not too harsh. It's actually very accurate and spot on.

Agresta's is transposed down....

LOVE that about her!!!

I understand that the sound of her voice may seem unattractive to some people, but her musicality and the importance she gives to words make her one of my favorite singers... at any stage of her career

@@cristino2oo8 Absofreakinglutely! 😎😎😎

Sure Harteros is "successful" but she has terrible technique. If we were measuring quality of the voice by how successful commercially someone is, then we would say that Kaufmann is great too…She has bad technique, so does Scotto - the length of the career doesn't matter, the quality of the voice does. Definitely Souliotis had problems, but on that recording she sounds good and is exemplifying better technique than Scotto who is singing restricted and in the mask… it doesn't matter whether overall Souliotis had problems, but she definitely does not sing "without technique" as you say - lots of singers have problems with their voice, even if they have solid technique at the beginning, and have to retire early or have a severe decline in their technique (like Tebaldi or Callas, or even Corelli who could have had a longer career, but retired only at 50). Souliotis' problem was that she started singing too early when her technique wasn't really solid, despite having laid the foundations of really excellent technique - if she had waited a few years she would have been better able to sustain the heavy load of parts she was taking.

Souliotis' fault was her insistance to sing very dark roles many many times, giving no time to her voice to recover. Also she sang Abigail more than anyone else and this is general understanding that it's quite a harmful role, even Callas confirmed as much. she always had technical issues of course but I desagree when it comes to vocal support. I think she had quite solid vocal basis and great breath support, only problem though is that she"jumped the gun" but she was not to blame entirely. Even Callas let the side down many times by her unique aproach to the roles, even always driving the audience crazy and she payed the price without a doubt. Souliotis tried to do the same which was not sensible from her part but she managed to leave the best performance of Abigail ever IMHO

I agree with Wallenstein 100%. I also remember when Suliotis’ first Decca lp with the Anna Bolena final scene on it was first released. It was universally crucified, although I really liked her Luisa Miller aria. Her complete Nabucco with Gobbi is certainly good because she was only 22, and singing on the muscular resiliency of youth. That’s a VERY expensive price to pay. The Cavalleria with Del Monaco is quite thrilling too, for the same reason. Macbeth with DFD (🤮) replacing Gobbi is HER last acceptable recording. DFD ruins it, alas. I also like the “abridged” Decca Norma with Cossotto and MDM, but most people consider it a party record. The Anna Bolena with Ghiaurov is a crying shame, really. Her final recording, the Principessa in Suor with Freni is a total embarrassment and should never have been allowed. They should have tried to get Eileen Farrell. Ms. S. WAS able to take the high D in Norma trio and the Bolena Act 1 finale on recording. Not sure about “live”. I guess she had a “technique” of sorts…but it let her down big time.

@@Paulofibonelli I have to agree with your comment about her Abigail. The most electrifying recording available.

@@francisca1378 People don’t get this. Thanks for your effort.

True. All singers have my respect. To follow your dreams and stand on a stage and sing, knowing you will be subjected to this kind of scrutiny and criticism takes courage. They actually DO it, and can call themselves opera singers. Arm chair critics who have never sung a note and bitchy opera queens who travel the world attending opera, not liking any of it, have always been the core opera audience. They buy tickets and recordings. They love to hate it, and it's always been that way. When Caruso appeared, they said " well, he's no Jan de Reszke". It's part of the fun, but these videos should be called " singers I like vs singers I don't. " its an opinion, not a statement of fact. One person's screaming diva is another's Zinka Milanov! Some of these videos that make proclamations concerning vocal production are just wrong, and rather shocking in their ignorance. KZfaq , though great, is also a forum in which anyone is free to show the world how stupid they are. The question I can't answer is WHY DO I WATCH?

Freni always had an intrinsically beautiful voice, though and through and Agresta's voice is definitely not anywhere as beautiful. I therefore also find the criticism about her sing being good or bad as not hitting the mark, Some singers just have more beautiful voice timbres than others.

@@jefolson6989 suscribo absolutamente hasta la última coma de tu comentario!

@@margaritatorrealdaysuescun6153 translation? Thank you for your comment!

@@jefolson6989 Margaritas's saying that she completeley agrees with what you wrote. So do I!

Verdi- Macbeth : Una macchia è qui tuttora.

I was never a great admirer of Renata Scotto. With that said, I must admit that early on she was a great artist. I saw her many times, most memorably as Lady Macbeth in 1982 or 1983. As a rather petite figure on stage she made a compelling choice. Rather than underscoring the character’s nakedly aggressive ambitions, she fully embraced the woman’s sexuality as the primary mechanism for achieving her ends. She virtually dripped in delicious obscenity, at moments rendering her husband pathetic and powerless.

Скотто в молодости была супер-прекрасна!

It's the just pitch on the compilation clip. I just played the same scene on my DVD of this performance and it's correctly pitched.

Probably purposefully doctored to make her sound shitty

I'm a bit late but it's a duet from Verdi's Otello, già nella notte densa.

Garanca has now developed a real chest voice : I heard her as Principessa di Bouillon at Wiener Staatsoper a few weeks ago and it was wonderful singing !

@@raphaelpisano5462 Never heard a correct chestvoice from her sorry…

@@draganvidic2039 when did you hear her last ? In November in Vienna she gave some really good low notes

@@raphaelpisano5462 See above

@@raphaelpisano5462 I also saw her then! She was amazing, you could hear everything very well. I agree on her Dalila being a bit weak in the lower register, but it‘s a bit unfair to compare an Eboli she had to sing in French with Obraztsova, who no Verdi mezzo could touch, not even Baltsa or Troyanos…

Don Carlo

Princess Ebolis first aria in the opera

@@caseyfranco3959 yes, and in the french version not the italian (always sounds… weird to me).

@@francisca1378 The French version is very beautiful... when it's sung in French! Maybe you know Verdi even wrote the 4 acts version (Milano 1884) on the French lyrics. Toi qui sus le néant sounds much better than Tu che le vanita

@@christophecesar4761 yes, I do love to hear the french version, which is rarely preformed! But I speak french fluently and I can't understand a word of that production…. The original 5 act was written in french, then revised into the 4 act version in Italian. Although I do have to say my favourite version is the 5 act french version but translated into italian! (also rarely preformed!)

Soprattutto a confronto della Suliotis che è stata una mera meteora anche per l’organizzazione fallace della tecnica!!

I don't believe so…

@@francisca1378 It's probably because the timbre is so different that I'm hearing a change in pitch. Or... lol, I need my coffee already.

@@lissettejimenez7821 honestly, i listened to it again and I thought actually they were different keys, too! But i checked it with a piano and (I think) it is the same! yea, probably just the really different sound of the voice…. weird how much it changes the way the music sounds..

From what I'm hearing, the new version sings in the key of G and Freni's is in Ab

@@oliverdelica2289 … right, isn't it? I can't think though why they transposed it down? Maybe to make the high note at the end for Kaufmann easier?

Yes very thin and barely sung. For once a correct one according to the score.

Suliotis had an incredible voice and her interpretations were very exciting but... she had no technic and destroyed her voice conscientiously in a few years. Later, she tried to make a come back as a mezzo but there was nothing to do; the vibrato had become enormous and the voice was dislocated.

tu che le vanità

@@francisca1378 thank you 🙏🏾

Agresta is awful, and so is Harteros … I've heard her live many times too - very nasal, constricted singing.

@@francisca1378 this is silly

@@Wotan123456789 i don't agree with you, so it is silly… okay. you convinced me.

@@francisca1378 Many people love bad singing

I hope we have no hard feelings. But not up to standard compared to the great mezzos

@@oliverdelica2289 not bad feelings. My question is completely naïf , I want just now if Joyce Didonato have a good technique or not.

@@baspetiana Joyce has great technique but she is not a Verdi voice which is what is being compared here.

Soprano corto. Caprino. Bad.

Because she’s bad

Garanca is horrible. A spinto soprano trained as lyric mezzo now screaming dramatic mezzo roles.

@@draganvidic2039 Garanca has been my favourite singer for a long time. I love her Rossini and Mozart, but also the slightly heavier roles of Charlotte and Carmen. She is a great actor, both physically and vocally and has a warm, mellow timbre. I do wish she wouldn’t attempt to sing roles that are too heavy for her, I don’t think Eboli or Bouillon suit her. But I’ll have to disagree on her being a spinto soprano, as I have been listening to her when she was very young all the way to now, her high register stems from her great technique, it is only in the middle register that she sounds “like herself”. Her vocal character is clearly mezzo and her passaggi also indicate it. Her chest voice isn’t strong, but that doesn’t mean she’s not a mezzo, it just means that her voice isn’t developed and suited for dramatic roles, a soprano can (and should!) also have chest voice… It’s just a damn shame she’s singing dramatic repertoire a lot right now. Her Kundry is good, though.

I like her fraseggio as well

Lasciamo stare i confronti (Souliotis era molto più giovane), ma il vibrato irregolare della Scotto è il segno evidente di una voce in forte declino

Ponselle, Dimitrova, Callas

Hahah Sutherland scs rysenek best verdi singers?? Come off it!

well Agresta is good at… rubbing Jonas Kaufmann's shoulders??? ahah

You had me at Agresta being a far better Desdemona ngl 😂

Maybe you are an Agresta hater. I heard her live in Naples and she was really moving. Furthermore I heard her in Traviata with a beautiful high E flat and a spectacular Gemma di Vergy in an absolutely integral version. A singer should be heard live and not through a site which compresses voices. You can say whatever you like about Scotto but she is Lady Macbeth and ends the scene in pianissimo as Verdi wanted. Suliotis is not Lady Macbeth. She ends the scene with a high B flat forte and has some fixed sounds. @@francisca1378

Because the video has been doctored to play in a lower key - that would be enough to make any singer sound shitty

This is even worse 5:11

@@esterbruno8604 You said it 🤷🏃🏃🏃 poor Lady. Arnold Bourbon Amaral

I've seen operas on small stages with a few hundred rather than 3,000 in the audience. I enjoy it much more.

She has none

Абсолютно невярно! Френи има блестяща техника, което значи да се пее в маската на отворено свободно гърло при здрава, но не форсирана опора на тона. Слава Богу, живеем във време, когато е технически възможно да проверим научно, че всичко това е точно това, което наричаме правилна техника на пеене. Много хора неправилно разбират пеенето в маската и го бъркат с грозното носово-гърлено звукообразуване.

@@user-jo6sm9mf4m Unfortunately we live in a time in which the ability of hearing to distinguish the sound of a correctly emitted voice from that of another that is not has been lost. And this is the reason why you (and many other people) think as you have tried to explain in your response to my comment. You talk about how today what you defend is scientifically demonstrable. However, you mix and equate concepts that are opposite and incompatible. The emission of the voice "in maschera" and an emission with the throat open and free are not synonyms; They are two physiologically incompatible facts. This statement shows that you are talking about things you have not experienced. If you had experienced it you would never have stated something like that. I also thought like you until someone taught me the natural, physiological mechanism of emission of the human voice, common in lyrical singing and theatrical declamation, when microphone manipulation did not yet exist. My advice is that, with humility and patience, investigate, discover, understand and accept this mechanism, and train your ear by listening to and comparing the same operatic fragment, over and over again, sung by an artist who emits the voice incorrectly and then by an artist who emits the voice correctly (example: Desdemona scene from the last act of Verdi's Otello sung by Mirella Freni and later sung by Renata Tebaldi or Montserrat Caballe). Kind regards.

Because the video has been doctored to olay it in a lower key - that would be enough to make any singer sound shitty

haha true, She spent too much time singing under Karajan who just used to follow her