Gore Vidal vs William Buckley Democratic Convention Debate 2 part 2
Пікірлер: 121
@jamieheitler18159 жыл бұрын
It's like watching an old married couple. The calibre of debate was certainly large in those days.
@labouche10 Жыл бұрын
Yep and it was in fact calibre then
@ThePessimist7 ай бұрын
I love watching these two patrician queens go at it.
@jaywilson45205 ай бұрын
"Patrician queens", lol. That's perfect.
@jhaychjh2 ай бұрын
Ignorant and libelous to call Buckley a queen.
@ThePessimist2 ай бұрын
@@jhaychjh He manages to seem more gay than Vidal.
@jhaychjh2 ай бұрын
@@ThePessimist -- Transatlantic, High Church accent (dialect). Very idiosyncratic mannerisms -- not feminine. I've been binge-watching his Firing Line - starting in 1966. Mid 70s now. Slouching, grimacing, but not a limp wrist to be seen. Family man of irreproachable character. We can't know anyone's secret yearnings, because they are secret.
@ThePessimist2 ай бұрын
@@jhaychjh I don't hate the guy...he was a great intellectual.
@owg599 жыл бұрын
Man, these guys REALLY hated each other.
@actfree68977 жыл бұрын
Haha you gotta love their back and forth jabs.
@jordancanter19582 жыл бұрын
They were best friends
@johnboy320642 жыл бұрын
@@jordancanter1958 Hardly. Is that a serious statement? They loathed each other and sued each other. More than once.
@charlesnye1736 Жыл бұрын
@@jordancanter1958 Best of enemies
@marcyfan Жыл бұрын
neither of them stated anything as clearly true during this debate as you in one sentence.
@WintersWar4 жыл бұрын
I love how neither one loses their train of thought during all of what's going on. gestures, insults. etc.
@gorecassady16329 жыл бұрын
Don't stick your tongue out bill! LoL
@Michael1966W10 жыл бұрын
Those 2 are great. Better what we have now
@robg712 жыл бұрын
Everytime these two got together, It was always an intellectual "Rumble in the Jungle"
@weightlifting_socialist Жыл бұрын
Except conservatism isn't intellectual, it's a ideology that keeps society and humankind at what ever moment its in and denies progress. Conservatism will be a good thing when we have a world that has no money,class,poverty and bigotry. You could throw in other things as well but at that time will keeping things the same be a good thing.
@maggiesace389 Жыл бұрын
@@weightlifting_socialist DUMBEST comment Ive read in a while! 🤢🤢🤢
@ralphgilbert23 Жыл бұрын
Two brilliant orators.
@thefakenewsnetwork80722 жыл бұрын
Long live buckley and vidals legacy
@roughhabit90853 жыл бұрын
I had a headmaster who was even more patrician . Maybe that’s why I don’t seem to mind. They are so sharp and articulate though ,so what does it matter if they have posh accents? Only philistines wouldn’t appreciate these guys.
@SamvedIyer2 жыл бұрын
Exactly; I can understand anti-elitism to a degree, but not anti-eloquence, anti-articulateness and anti-upper class accent sentiments.
@zumis101110 ай бұрын
Well that's probably because you're clearly cut from the same cloth haha but it's not just the accent, to most people the way you and these two speak sounds pretentious, and some people who can't understand might even think that you're simply speaking that way to assert a sense of superiority. Especially in your case since this video is over 50 years old, and you still manage to sound even more dated. Not a personal attack, I can appreciate eloquence, but to a degree I understand why some people see it as a flex.
@gkazanjian59765 жыл бұрын
"Don't stick your tongue out Bill, keep it in your cheeks where it belongs"
@david_post_punk11 ай бұрын
He didn't say that
@hrtvfan28705 жыл бұрын
2:48 Was that a signal for a new round to begin in this verbal boxing match? ;D
@SamvedIyer2 жыл бұрын
10:10 Howard Smith was totally enjoying it.
@gorecassady16328 жыл бұрын
Dynamism
@alcosmic5 жыл бұрын
Those Exeter wolf smiles
@tomkenway Жыл бұрын
Buckley's constantly eye googling and licking his teeth
@johnd7435 Жыл бұрын
WOW-- 5:00-- calls it.
@ashleyburns67525 ай бұрын
Surely the fact he said it in 1968 and it didn’t happen shows it isn’t true if anything?
@Professorrob2k242 жыл бұрын
Anybody learn something from them arguing?
@smccord273 жыл бұрын
And the verdict of history comes in for Vidal.
@SamvedIyer2 жыл бұрын
Buckley would concede in 1999 that the Vietnam War was a mistake, when Peter Robinson of the Hoover Institution called him and Christopher Hitchens on, to debate the 1960s. A brilliant conversation; it's available on KZfaq. But, apparently, Buckley had reservations about the Vietnam War even in the 1960s, although he never aired them publicly. I am unable to find that article; it was a NYT article by Sam Tanenhaus on the death of Gore Vidal.
@kenhur9800 Жыл бұрын
I miss the days when both sides appealed to the middle in some way
@curbyourshi1056 Жыл бұрын
It's a shame the middle doesn't exist anymore. It does, but each side accuses it of being Right or Left now, due to absolute disingenuous talk.
@jagotiberan2181 Жыл бұрын
“There’s a curious coincidence about the fact that it’s [the world’s] always going to dogs because we don’t do what they tell us to do.”
@curbyourshi1056 Жыл бұрын
No cards, no "talkng points". Excellent debate. Oh, wait, the Democrat has a big clipboard of notes he looks at before talking...
@purelite0411 ай бұрын
What do you think that is in the Republicans lap?
@jokeruiner448110 ай бұрын
@@purelite04 ignore this idiot .
@zumis101110 ай бұрын
Always gotta be them Democrats, aye Hillbilly?
@PaperGrape21 күн бұрын
Only a brute would refer to these merely in a partisan way, and yes, that is a notebook in Buckley's lap.
@gorecassady16329 жыл бұрын
Expatriate
@rexracernj76963 жыл бұрын
Oh, those Prep/WASP accents! Does ANYONE speak that way today?
@zumis101110 ай бұрын
Yep, lot's of them in the rich states North of the tri-state area, like Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire etc. Most of them hardly ever leave their bubble, which outside of those states is usually resorts, country clubs, that sorta thing.
@fifthbusiness16782 жыл бұрын
Vidal just clobbered Buckley in this debate. He (Buckley) rarely comes out ahead in debate if matched against a serious intellect, and could be thrown off and upset rather easily. Baldwin wiped the floor with him at Oxford, as did Noam Chomsky, and I loved every minute of it.
@tommym321 Жыл бұрын
Buckley was always on the wrong fucking side of history. FOR the Vietnam war, AGAINST the Civil Rights Act, AGAINST equal rights for women….all totally bankrupt positions to take.
@maggiesace389 Жыл бұрын
Only of you prioritize Gores intentionally "obnoxious, emotionally driven, dribble" over Buckleys "conservative, sound logic" trying to be heard over Gores obnoxious noise!
@robhaskins9 ай бұрын
Ah, Buckley in seersucker. Fabulous.
@user-ev4rp3qb6xАй бұрын
I concur 👏👏👏👏👏
@newt08304 жыл бұрын
we lost the Vietnam War..but won the Cold War....i'll take that exchange
@newt08303 жыл бұрын
@Leo 007 oh really, let's think which nation fell apart?....which nation gave up territory? Which nation got stared down at every turn? Oh that's right!..your beloved USSR. I guess you're unhappy they lost. Too bad. That's OK, China's next
@jmitterii23 жыл бұрын
We as the people won nothing. The plutocrats won China's vast slave labor, USSR fell apart into its own constituent nations some under continuous dictatorships others into plutocratic republics and some with genuine democratic republics; almost all suffered a period of great economic collapse only likened to the great depression of the 1929 that was spread from the US to Europe; and some fell apart into civil war and fractured further into smaller divisions like Yugoslavia or Albania. Additionally, the owners of our nation became more brazen with their world empire, thinking of themselves as the emperors of the old ancient Roman Empire; greed is good and no economic planning, unless of course, it lines robber baron's pockets, turning instead to deficits, feigning when the counter political party is in power to despise deficit spending, but knowing very well deficit spending is a means to turn the taxes of the wealthiest into a loan, treasury bonds and the such mostly only purchased by such parasites, have successfully made their taxes a loan to be paid back with interest. While the rest of the labor population compete as did the ancient Roman labor population with the slaves of conquest; many a free Roman citizen under great debt and severe competition literally sold themselves into slavery; have most of the tax burden particularly in terms of disposable income to pay such taxes and those bonds with interest back to the wealthiest who can and tend to be the primary if not only purchasers of such bonds. A tax that is a loan paid back in interest to the wealthiest. And their true taxes lower, and if they truly feel like paying nothing, an offshore bank account will do. While the state of the economic system is so shit with the competitiveness of dictatorships and tyrannized labor that is tantamount to slavery as well as state owned subsidized businesses of the same nations that can sell at a loss Ad infinitum until there is no industry that is capable of competing domestically; and often the domestic so called captains and master's of the universe plutocrats transplant their factories to these places directly with additional subsidies by these governments for the purpose of pacifying their people through Arbeit Macht Frei servitude; keep'em busy keeps'em quiet; even if they don't get shit for that work; they're too busy slaving away to put up any sort of protest. This domestic demand destruction then causes the overall domestic economy to turn horribly bad, requiring more and more consumer borrowing just to get basic goods and longer and longer hours, in a desperate attempt to keep things looking bright and keep the borrowing train coming, the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates to near 0% causing rampant speculation among stocks... which is mostly benign since most citizens don't really own any or very many to mean anything; but the worst is the feudalistic nature of real-estate speculation that had driven home appraisals causing un-affordable property taxes, insurance premiums, housing prices, and rental prices to become unsustainable in ratio to wages/salaries. So not only do the oligarchs suck the tit of tyrants of far off lands for their slave labor and other subsidies, turned their portion of taxes into loans repaid with interest, but have also become feudal lords with their monopolies on real-estate. There were many times such oligarchs became so brazen. And it never ended well when they did. Not for them or anyone. So whether we won any of these so called wars doesn't matters one ounce. The fact is, we the people are being ruined by the same robber barons that fucked the people during the 1800's and early 1900's. The charade via jingoism must end. The level of love for one's nation and people isn't demonstrated by the victory or failure of mass murder that we call war, or other frivolity, but by the ideas and putting forth the means and methods and plannings that people can actually ALL prosper thereby. We were all played. We become winners when we all realize this.
@newt08303 жыл бұрын
@@jmitterii2 speak for yourself.. I won plenty. I'm an American Too bad you're miserable
@joedesoto49723 жыл бұрын
@@newt0830 you sound just like Buckley, in defense of anything you deem as American with no capacity for analyzing things apart from your American bubble
@JeanValjean87511 ай бұрын
What did we win exactly? Just a few decades later, Russia is once again a world power.
@mikecormier57364 жыл бұрын
9:36 Such "highbrow American" accents until Vidal says ni-groes
@mpcc20224 жыл бұрын
These were upper class white men in the 60's what do you expect the world wasn't what it is now don't bring Political correctness into the picture it's the least intelligent lens to view the past by.
@no-rq7fp3 жыл бұрын
@@mpcc2022 Thank you.
@lucianopavarotti28432 жыл бұрын
Buckley was gay and Gore knew it.
@dawnpettit8213 Жыл бұрын
It takes one to know one.
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
@@dawnpettit8213 Exactly
@dawnpettit8213 Жыл бұрын
@@lucianopavarotti2843 your funny but not ha ha funny.
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
@@dawnpettit8213 I think you meant "you're"
@dawnpettit8213 Жыл бұрын
@@lucianopavarotti2843 sorry your butt hurts.
@dmblum111 ай бұрын
I don't like the comments here - they discuss the politeness of the discourse. One of these men is arguing for mass murder of American young men - the Vietnam war would go on for seven more years and thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese would die. And all for nothing. Zero. Zilch. Just pointless death. EFF POLITENESS.
@danaarden83732 жыл бұрын
The huge difference between these two is that Buckley is largely speaking extemporaneously while Vidal scripted, rehearsed and memorized most of his "spontaneous" wit. Buckley was the real deal, Vidal was a poser.
@gregrambo6062 жыл бұрын
Have to agree. I never thought Vidal could handle Buckley in any of these encounters. The closer you watch them, the less impressive Vidal becomes. Buckley was just too sharp.
@mikemccool7575 Жыл бұрын
Boy was he wrong though
@lumo9132 Жыл бұрын
you're kidding right
@danaarden8373 Жыл бұрын
@@lumo9132 It’s actually well documented that Vidal literally spent weeks preparing his bon mots and “spontaneous” comments. I believe there’s even a documentary that was made about it. Vidal was clever but was not a spontaneous wit in the same class as Buckley.
@lordoftheflies7024 Жыл бұрын
"Vidal rehearsed his lines" U mean to tell me Buckley is so predictable u can have a pretend debate with urself and accurately predict how it can go and it's Buckley whom we should look at with respect? Wow.
@jayrodny8419 Жыл бұрын
It’s sad they should of Best friends
@seanosull288410 ай бұрын
Like Mitt Romney and Obama, or Hitler and Nelson Mandela... such a shame