What Is The Drawback To Solar Pumped Laser/Lensing Boiler Distillation Systems? I Am Relatively Sure That They Could Be Immediately Implemented With An Extremely High Benefit To Cost Ratio Using Currently Existing Technologies. It Solves Both The Pumping And The Desalination Processes Into One Efficient And Inexpensive Solution That Can Be Implemented Anywhere That There Is Sunlight, While Simultaneously Generating Energy Instead Of Requiring It.

I Have Conceptualized Several Systems That Could Be Easily Tested With Minimal Effort And Negligible Expense. All Of The Mathematical Specifications Are Variably Dependent Upon Materials And Scale. It Would Only Take A Few Days With The Right People, Materials, And Equipment To Prove It's Value At Scale.

There Are Millions Of People Who Need The Water Right Now, Not By 2025.

@@VerifyTheTruth Some toxic materials also evaporate with water, but this can be filtered after you distillate. Maybe there is some affordable process to separate water vapor from other substances while it's still a gas, similar to what is used in petrol refineries.

@@vitordelima Absolutely, Multi-Chamber Heat And Pressure Differentials To The Distillates, Much Like Crude Refineries. The Technologies, Equipment, And Infrastructure Already Exists For Immediate Large Scale Implementation Of Basic Solar Boiler Distillery Desalination. Concentrated Sunlight Can Boil Or Combust Water Instantaneously. With The Right Specifications, Mostly Any Present Chemicals Or Biological Contaminants Can Be Seperated, Concentrated, And/Or Neutralized, As With A Waste Water Treatment System. Permanent Silver Filtration Could Render The Distilled Water Drinkable After Remineralization Or It Could Be Utilized For Recharging Aquifers, Food Production, And Cash Crops. The Pumping Could Operate As A Solar Primed Siphon With Unidirectional Check Valves, Containment Towers, And Drop Points. The Salt Water Can Be Moved Uphill With Head Pressure Through Roman Concrete Or Rarefaction Tempered Quartz Glass Piping To Be Processed Down Line, Or Desalinated On Site And Pipelined Through Steel. The Value Of The Water Would Likely Far Exceed Oil Long-Term In Numberous Areas And Applications. Excess Power Generated By The Solar Boilers, Once The System Is Primed, Can Be Harnessed With Hydraulically Distributed Hydro-Pneumatic Pistons And/Or With Turbines. Apparently The Technology Also Exists To Combust Salt Water. This Is Just One Highly Generalized Solution Out Of Many Combinations Of Existing Tech.

there are actually graphene products out there right now. You just don't know it contains graphene

@@jasonmorris9330 such as ...

@@sriharshacv7760 seeing as how I work for a company that is implementing graphene in their products, let's just say it's in the weapons industry already

@@jasonmorris9330 But usually we don't use weapon systems in our everyday lives...😁

@@nickolaymiltenov the statement was "it can't leave the laboratory" and to be fair, it left the laboratory, like most other new inventions, straight into weapons...

Same here.. most of the textbooks misses the solvation sphere in their explanation

@Александр Лазарев activated carbon already exists for water filtration.. doped graphene is the next step. Even if it can't filter water, it can preferentially intercalate ions which reduces salinity too

As a non chemist I liked ur comment

as a non kemist, im just excited to use a future low cost graphene water filter to filter a high ppm water source..

@@kousueki7024 chemis

It's a clever way of saying it's a trade secret.

@@freddiereadie30 OR a "clever" way of overselling the feasibility or advantage of a technology.

honestly I really dont see how they can neatly stacked GO sludge from an exfoliation process. crosslinked epoxy is FKING HUGE so how the fk can you get such tiny spaces between the graphene oxide. im thinking they just compositized the GO with a certain percentage of epoxy which still allows it to be permeable with water then painted/pressed/rolled the resulting mix if it fking works into nice sheets for RO membranes.

@@freddiereadie30 its not their paper literally shows how the membrane looks it FKING SUCKS and isnt practical in the slightest. Their active surface area is in the friggin micrometers and for it to be practical that needs to be in METERS!!

@@unAgorist what about you I could say the same.

graphene : it cures all

😂😂😂😂😂 totally me And I feel like I got the cure everybody.. Nanotechbology and grapheeeene

😂

It's true. Now if only someone could master the manufacture and shaping of graphene.

Graphene can do everything except leave the laboratory.

what paper?

We were in touch with this research team. They have collaborated with a UK based company, LifeSaver to convert this research into a product. Maybe in a few years we can expect it to hit the market.

Graphene is the way of the future. Between graphene, Neutrinovoltaic, and CO2 bio fuel conversion using solar energy and radio waves the world will forever be changed

@@frankh.3849 We need to have a solution now! CO2 biofuel conversion is carried out by plants and is not the most efficient.

@@janami-dharmam it can be done now with solar energy and EMF in the radio spectrum. They have all ready built prototypes. They have also figured out a simple way to do it electrochemical using solar energy with the highest reported efficiency. Though the method using radio waves is the cheapest and leaves a zero carbon footprint.

Donno mate - the drastically lowered energy requirements kinda seem helpful - but maybe thats just me.

I think it is safe to say you would still get more use out of graphene filtration.

@@davidmende3409 You should check out other comments. The "lower energy requirements" has been discussed thoroughly and the conclusion seems to be that that is a false. I don't even think the video, or the scientific papers this was based on, claim that the GO membranes have lower energy requirements for filtration.

@@alanwatts8239 why? It's not obvious to me why you would make that conclusion. What are the mechanisms that prevent us from getting use out of either one? What is the difference between the two that creates a difference in their longevity?

Agreed, that stood out to me too. They also do not list the standard solution this rejection is measured on, or explain WHY the energy requirement is lower. Osmotic pressure must still be overcome.

Yea but if it is better enough, it may become viable on large scale. Maximizing the amount of water flowing through the filtration medium while minimizing the required energy is the key.

@@lamebubblesflysohigh it being tuneable may be an advantage but really the amount of energy is is a function of the osmotic pressure + the mechanical losses. The osmotic pressure is unchanged and there is no indication of addressing the mechanical losses. Its like pumping water uphill , correctly sizing the pipe and making it as straight as possible with as smooth walls as possible will minimise mechanical losses but you will never be able to get water up a hill with less energy than the added gravitational potential energy.

@@Ralphgtx280 if you were to put the filtrated water below the salt water, would osmosis come into play? Like, if the graphene sheets were too be put above vats, instead of right next to them?

@@Ralphgtx280 trees think different.

@@purplepotatoes9255 Good idea, but no, its not enough pressure, and that IS the problem....RO takes very large amounts of pressure to work (which requires ALOT of energy to create this pressure). The mass of water used in RO does not create this high pressure. And let's say we use the entire pressure of a deep ocean.....this would work, but the problem then is how do you get the clean water back up to the surface? This would also use the same amount of large energy. The point is that energy conservation laws apply to all forces, including pressure. You cannot overcome the energy differential with pressure.....the energy to break the bonds is the same either way. This has to do with the profound properties of water itself.....so the same reasons that make water the source of all life, is the same reasons why it is difficult to get clean water. This is also why the earth's ecosystem is very complex in cleaning water. Final conclusion: Humanity cannot overcome the scarcity of energy until it overcomes the entire capitalist system. Only socialism as a path to communism will allow humanity to have a surplus of energy. There literaly is no scarcity of energy in the universe, it is the capitalist system that creates a scarcity and forces humanity to rely on self-destructive toxic fossil fuels for energy. Go humans! Good luck.

"There's a sucker born every minute."- PT Barnum

@@burnerjack01 no tricks here

no shit

@@burnerjack01 "There's a scientifically illiterate fool born every second." - Me -

@@thealienrobotanthropologist Yeah, good luck convincing that to Billions of population around the world. So, it's better to prepare for worst-case scenario when we have the time :)

@@thealienrobotanthropologist I am one of those who will never have children. if it were up to me no one would have it for the next 30 or 40 years.

@@thealienrobotanthropologist ''''''''The future is learning to not have more kids that you can afford to take care of.'''''' wrong the future is using logic and advanced technology to conquer our problems and continuing living life without having to worry about whether we have enough resources

​@@robinsss he is sterile

Populations arent growing except Africa.

It's clearly an error saying the salt-to-water molecules are covalent. As you say, it's an ion-dipole interaction that binds them together. I dont't know about the strength of the bond, but I'm sure it's stronger than water to water molecule one.

It's a bit more complicated then that. When water (or any other ligand) complexes with an ion, there is actually bond formation, It's not just electrostatic interactions. You only learn about the ion-dipole interactions because they are simple physical forces with which we can easily explain and calculate attraction between ions en dipoles. Metal-water coördinated complexes are easily formed however I don't think anion complexes are easily formed. Nitrate, sulfate, chloride - water interactions are mostly ion dipole interactions i think.

@@luka7383 This is very informative. Thank you for this response!

Because maybe, you're gonna be the one that saves me And after all, you're my van der waals

In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.

@@MottyGlix correct - that I know - can you do it here with this material,p? I always knew about (what you said) and to me it was the critical question that first needs to be answered before we can seriously consider this material as a filter.

@Inotamira Orani I have actually been involved in water & waste water treatment. I can tell you the devil is in the detail. What often seems technically obvious often is practically impossible. In summary.... Let's see if someone gets this right.

Mark yep. Generally these filters must be replaced or cleaned. They last for about 24hours of use. They slowly loose efficiency over that period as more and more salt clogs the entry. They are usually cleaned upon reaching 30% efficiency in resoect to thr original non clogged 100%. As I said, this typically occurs after 24hours of use, assuming typical salt concentrations etc...

The video starting at 5:00 explains your question.

I am not a meterials engineer. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.

@@dosmastrify I am not a troll. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.

@@JC-yb3zb you just won the game

@@dosmastrify I'll be here all week.

But why do molecules go only in one direction through a graphene filter? Does osmose afraid graphen?

it's computer generated?

@@ChrisTopher-jv6ex Yes. Can't you tell?

How can you tell? 🤔 Sounds real to me.

its real

@@jammapcb yes as I said it is a real computer generated voice

The cost is coming down rapidly.

We need silica for collagen formation, don't we?

@@ix-Xafra yes we do. And different municipal water supplies have different levels. It’s necessary in biology but often rather damaging in industrial settings.

@@joefromravenna is silica abrasive when in colloidal solution?

- gravity -

The term he used was capillary action, so some way to influence the pressure difference is definately required. Having that action in the filter be its most efficient is about good design and surface area. Entropy also gets its reward in the production of these exotic materials.

A thermal differential, perhaps. Have the salt water in a solar pool, and cool pipes on the other side. Hot water molecules from the saltwater side try to balance the thermal differential, traveling from one side of the filter to the other.

Since Salt has no valence electrons in the outer shells for covalent bonds if I remember correctly

+

the paper is now linked in a pinned comment

It's the pressurization, not the actual osmotic efficiency, that leads to savings. Lower pressure means thinner pipes and weaker pumps, meaning less expensive ones.

How toxic is it in this particular application? To us drinking the water I mean.

not really.....the problem is capitalism, not research.

@@jokers7890 no, its not capitalism, its the viability of it when it comes to mass producing it. More often than not, research results show great success, but the way it is created makes it pretty unviable/expensive when it comes to making it available to all people

Passive only means it is a spontaneous process. It doesn't mean there was no energy involved. There is no contradiction there.

I think I see what your seeing. My guess is that the potential energy is being placed into the manufacturing process and these GO membranes have limited use or have to be "recharged" in some way. The swelling must have to do with the energy of the system. OR the video conveniently neglects to mention that the pumping that is attributed to the conventional RO process is also required for GO desalination process.

@@jeremysimmons8864 It's that there's water next to a hydrophile (GO) while there's no water on the other side. You could look at it as a chemical reaction: As long as there's no product (clean water), water will happily permeate due to osmosis (the energy being the potential difference between the right and left side). However, permeation rate should slow down until it reaches equilibrium at which point water has to be removed from the right side, or more "educt" is added to the left. At least that's my best theory that's coherent with physics.

@@S3b1Videos Interesting. I definitely need to read the researchers paper to gain some insight on the chemical aspect. I guess my biggest concern is with how the process is maintained and how much energy is required as compared to the conventional polymer membrane based RO.

Exactly! This is the most problematic point with desalination. Graphene does nothing to improve the possible ecological disaster that this technology could prove to be.

Properly planned sites should have the output brine mixed with so much seawater that it's non-toxic by the time it leaves the pipe, and we won't drive ocean salinity up over time because that's not how the water cycle works. It's cheapo bottom-dollar sites that would dump high concentrations straight in the ocean that we need to worry about

Israel has already reduced the cost of traditional RO filtration to a price of about 1 USD per liter, which is less than the cost of bottled drinking water. And Israel's method doesn't rely on experimental filter materials that can't be mass-produced yet.

Save it for winter, road salt.

Exactly what I was wondering too. I feel like there's a catch here somewhere.

Looks like capillary forces are used to over come osmotic pressure, but yea I'm curious about the numbers, and the practical implementation, as well.

@@fredorpaul but if you want to pull water out of the capillaries, you have to overcome capillary forces as well. There's no free cake

I'm wondering if the "magical" function of graphene-based desalination is just that it's a more efficiently designed porous material, in that it's designed at the atomic level for efficiency to pass a greater volume of water given a particular pressure. It's designed to fit this intended purpose from the bottom up. As it's explained in the video, without adding pressure to the system, I'd think it would just be a more efficient gate at drawing water towards the salt. And I thought they got the nature of the relationship between water and graphene backwards... it's not hydrophilic, it's hydrophibic.

The inherent resistance of the membrane, not the separation, is the place where savings are had. Because running pure water through it would still take energy, despite the lack of separation. That's the energy in question here.

That is the problem

Well, if it is cheap enough, It can be used for short time and then replaced. But for some reason I am skeptical about this. Until I see a plant that is using this, it's just a theory.

Correct, in an ideal, 100% efficient system at least the osmotic energy must be added to the solution to achieve desalination. The rest of loss is pump efficiency, membrane architecture and the energy of dropped concentrate (might be recovered).

Perhaps they meant to say GO has lower resistance to water flow which increases efficiency, but you definitely can't get something from nothing.

Wish my gang leader gave our crew clean water.

Yes, but remember, once you hear it on the news, its already too late.....(buy now!)

1) The energy costs are enormous 2) The capital costs to build the plants are enormous 3) Lower sea levels - desalination. I'd suggest some time with some simple back of the envelop calculations of ocean volume vs throughput of desal plants. 4) Once you desalinate all this water into fresh water, then use it, where do you think it goes from there?

Kind of like Covid deaths right?

Naturally the molecules want to move to try and equilibrate the pressures. However some water molecules still would but the important thing is that there would be more moving in the desired direction with creates a net movement of water to the clean side.

Gravity maybe? also he said that the water molecules move by capillary action so maybe it’ll work like a straw?

@@joelpivetta4421 This is a circular argument though, isn't it? Could it be that the graphene has a relatively lower Helmholtz free energy barrier (assuming volume and temperature remain more or less constant in the system) compared to the 'normal' filter? This would still require the same amount of energy in the end, right? Perhaps the energy requirement difference stems from the pace at which desalination should occur? In either case the desalinated state should be about equally entropically unfavourable. It doesn't make sense to me that the difference arises because it takes less energy for the water molecules to be desolvated, as at the other side of the filter this same amount of energy is spent again for resolvation/reforming the hydrogen bonds. Except that the overall reduced energy barrier would accelerate the process. Maybe anti-fouling properties of the graphene membrane also differ from traditional filtration membranes? Blegh my thermodynamics is rusty.

In desal plants, the slatless water is pumped away. Clear water has to be touching the membrane for it to have a chance to migrate to the salty side.

@@yay-cat Good guesses but I don't think that would explain it :). Gravity barely plays a role at the molecular scale. The thermal motion of molecules starts increasingly outweighing gravity as objects get smaller; thermal motion starts to become dominant at around 1 micron. Capillary action could work to the point where the pores are filled, but thereafter the capillary forces would act to keep the water inside so it would cancel out (although it may lower the total energy barriers to be traversed somehow).

Noted.

did you watch the video?

That's my question too. Gravity would be more than enough to pull it through and the same pump that pumps water in the tank in the video is the same pump for a vertical tank. Think we're being bamboozled with bullshit by the graphene group...🤣😉👍

He said in the video that the filtration operates through capillary action, which of course doesn’t require any external energy source.

Thanks for your comment. I was going to makes a similar comment about the fundamental, inescapable energy requirement, defined by thermodyamics. The static osmotic pressure of sea water is equivalent to 900 ft of water. Real systems need more to over come losses due to flow, increases in salt concentration in feed, and losses in pressured brine rejection. Technology advances can reduces these losses and are highly desireable. Misleadingly implying the engery barrier will go away is not helpful

thats what i thought. they showed it in the video, as if the water just naturally flows through and the salt just stays. like thats not how real physics work.

dont forget that each membrane unit is 1 atom thick and to make a large sheet of stacked planar pores you need an insane number of layers on the order of avogadros number.