Grow soil, not plants. Also... How we calculate "Yield" and why that's wrong.

Рет қаралды 5,438

Күн бұрын

This video came out of a viewer comment on the 2 golden rules video. I thought it deserved a video response, and I could easily align this with one of my other core concepts: Grow Soil, not plants.
The comment centers on how we define "yield", and why that's wrong.
I hope you enjoy.
Keith
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Пікірлер: 67

@CarrieLovesLife. 13 күн бұрын

Thank you for another great video. My favorite part was when you got lost in the beauty of the butterfly. We should ALL be a little bit more like ‘kindergartners’. Taking time for awe and wonder.

@GimmeADream 12 күн бұрын

To add my two cents, I started asparagus rows years ago for profit. Following your advice a couple of years ago I added strawberries to the rows but they were still young so I added tomatoes (trellised and pruned) and peppers for personal use to the asparagus rows and cardboard and hay (available at no extra cost) in between the rows. Last fall, I harvested and canned enough tomatoes to last our family 4 years and more peppers then I had ever seen in one place before plus I had my spring asparagus harvest and a better asparagus crop this spring than ever before. But it all didn't start in one season.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

This is true and a great point. Don't judge these system wide changes too soon. It can take a few years to start seeing the snowball growing.

@armada369 13 күн бұрын

Thank you for reviewing this. I follow the two golden rules. The garden is robust and full of activities. I use square foot gardening utilizing permaculture applications. My neighbors don't understand how I garden. I am calling mine edible landscaping 😅😅😅.

@dawnpettiglio6930 13 күн бұрын

My neighbor keeps commenting that she "needs" to bring her weed Wacker next time she visits. I keep trying to explain everything is on purpose.

@donnavorce8856 12 күн бұрын

It's so nice to read about other friends working with mom-nature! Glad to read your note. Edible landscaping. Yes. I hunt and forage in my "garden" daily. IT's packed with flowers for pollinators, and in there are things I want to eat. I live on a small acre and have been food foresting for nearly 25 years. I didn't know what it was called then. I just knew it needed to be created.

@mikeinportland30 13 күн бұрын

I like this. Going forward I will bifurcate my assessment of "yield" - "above ground yield" and "below ground yield". I want both to be as bountiful as possible and to leave my land (and the Earth) better than when I arrived on it!

@Double0pi 13 күн бұрын

"Only change one thing" Hahahahaha. I love that you are addressing this. You can only truly control variables in the lab (and even then, not completely). Anyone who does field science (as I do) know that there are gazillions of variables and you can't possibly control them all. The #1 thing I learned from my Ph.D. is, "No one can possibly understand all the connections between all of these things, there's just too much going on!" If you look at the discussion section a well-written, peer-reviewed scientific article on something related to ecology/ biogeochemistry/ other field science, you will see that the authors don't just lay out one conclusion--they lay out several possible conclusions, then try to explain why their favorite conclusion is the correct one. So yeah, people might disagree with their "official" conclusion, but at least the other possible ideas are put out into the scientific community.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 13 күн бұрын

100% Heck, we've only catalogue 1% of the orgabisms beneath the soil. We don't even know what we don't know. So when we make a change and make observations, we can only make educated theories to describe what we are seeing and what caused it, but there are billions of moving levers at play.

@LongislandnativeSanctuary 13 күн бұрын

What a beautiful design, symbiotic relationship

@Norbingel 13 күн бұрын

Gotta say this is the first time a comment of mine prompted it's own video in response! :D Excellent point btw. I still intended to do it despite the "lower yield" because I'm putting more emphasis on longer term soil health AND because I also think it'll be less maintenance/more bang for the buck.

@1voluntaryist Күн бұрын

Yes, yes, yes, the spirit of Masanobu Fukuoka lives in Keith!

@johnransom1146 13 күн бұрын

All great points. Never rent your land. They will strip mine the soil, as you say. What is also left out is the value of the clover. It can be cut and used for fodder. Or let livestock graze on it after the potatoes are removed. Easy peasy. You could reverse the strips next year so that the potato area gets clover. Then the livestock again and that land should be very fertile

@honeydew4576 11 сағат бұрын

As a fairly new gardener, I enjoy growing just for the sake of growing. Yes, it's nice to get the broccoli or zucchini harvest, but I am also happy to let those plants go to flower for the pollinators. I love and agree with your approach, looking at the bigger picture. We are growing so much more than food for ourselves; we are feeding everyone: the microbes, the insects, the land, the heart!

@LittleKi1 7 күн бұрын

I think this was a great video. As a horticulturist, I love the engineer's sum-up of root exudates and mineralization of nutrients! One thing I would add for folks outside the food forest/guild concept: buy plants, particularly seeds, that were grown in organic production systems. Over the last few decades, plant genomes have gotten used to being totally coddled and yields simply will be lower when plants actually have to work for a living. If you buy from seed producers that are only growing for organic production, the genome x environment interactions result in seed stock capable of growing in organic environments. If you whack a conventional plant in a guild, it is almost invariably going to crash and burn right out of the gate. If you can grow enough plants to save seeds grown in guilds, you might get somewhere!

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 6 күн бұрын

Great point!!

@stevec4661 13 күн бұрын

Thoughtful and well presented video. Your approach aligns with others such as John Kempf and Helen Attowe who similarly take a scientific and critical-thinking approach to what they do. Kempf has a video where he actually questions growers about what they are trying to achieve each season: the knee jerk responses being “we want yield and quality”. Then Kempf demonstrates (using cherry orchards as an example) that many cherry growers are failing to maximise their profitability because their high yield of low nutrient fruit, with lower shelf life does not command the prices that more enlightened growers are getting. So when you do the maths, you quickly see that yield in isolation is an insufficient determinant for deciding your growing strategy. Helen Attowe talks about how her fruit is noticeably darker/redder in colour than the competitors. When lab-tested, her fruit has a far higher nutrient density. And for home gardeners, a similar consideration applies: do we want to maximise yield, or grow the most nutrient-dense, great-tasting produce?

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

💯

@rtom675 12 күн бұрын

I feel like Mark Shepard in Restoration Agriculture really have me this “Aha!” Moment with this concept.

@LongislandnativeSanctuary 13 күн бұрын

absolutely, I want my 7th generation from me to benefit and have a beautiful bountiful life, not depleted and starving, dependent on someone else.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

💯

@raychan202 9 күн бұрын

This is the best thing i have seen in a long time on this subject . Thank you very much for all that you do

@paulspanish-he2ki 15 сағат бұрын

Outstanding, Keith! Thanks

@jamesgaz788 7 сағат бұрын

Hi, love your videos. I started my food forest journey this year and I've done my best to use the resources around me, but the obstacle I'm running into is the fact that I have a lot of woods around me and that there's places where their soil is good, but there isn't much sunlight and vice versa. I did my best to use what I have at my : digging compost from completely rotted trees as well as mulch from partially decomposed trees (works well as a sponge) and dead leaves. This seems to work great for trees and bushes as I have unlimited carbon to be give them. The problem is when it comes to annual and perenials, it has been hard to get them started and going. I'm not sure if its the fact I'm trying to grow them in compost that I dug up in the forest (fungal dominated soil rather than bacterial dominated soil) or if it is the pest pressure. I'm not at the property often enough to really get the hot compost going (I'm a medical student) but I was wondering what I could do to improve the soil for those plants...Just try to chop and drop weeds onto garden beds and places where I'd like to grow perenials ? How thick should I try to lay on the chop and drop? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Beaucoup d'amour de Montréal!!

@lrrerh8090 13 күн бұрын

Just a comment about the butterfly. I was just in Ontario and was amazed at the biodiversity there vs where I live in Calgary. It is very rare to see coloured butterflies. Mostly only just the white cabbage moths fluttering around. Although, we don’t have deer flies which I am very happy about.

@allonesame6467 10 күн бұрын

One of the pieces that I and probably other people miss, is how much chop 'n dropping can/should/could be done sacrificing the biomass producing plants (comfrey, red bud, clover, buckwheat, senna, oats etc,) to the soil. I accidentally ran over my main comfrey bed with the truck, so I hauled it into the food forest and mulched everything. That was during the heat wave and the berries and currants etc. loved it. Better than watering, biomass contains all the nutrients and moisture! -- LOL! I just harvested my early red potatoes. It's like the joke: there weren't many...but they were small. 10 plants and I got as many potatoes. To me, the potatoes are not the only yield. For instantce, the soil having been covered with straw is recovering from being burned out from not being covered or having a cover crop on it last year, which was a huge mistake on my part to leave it in the sun. Digging the potatoes, I observed earthworms and cool, black, friable, moisture-holding soil just under the layer of straw, a complete 180 to what it was last year: hard, dry, cracked, sad. I value soil condition and constituents and this is a work in progress, so I am thrilled with my lil potatoes and soil life indicators. Never done. Always seeking. Thank you!

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 8 күн бұрын

The answer is as frequently as possible, without killing the plant. This will depend on the plant itself, ajd even the weather (sun and water).

@user-wk4ee4bf8g 9 күн бұрын

Ya dude, clear explanation

@jonroberts2445 12 күн бұрын

Your best yet. Great chat.

@Crina-LudmilaCristeaAuthor 10 күн бұрын

I love this discussion!💛

@TakingBack40 12 күн бұрын

I ran the experiment a different way, and even then the “yield” argument supports growing the soil. I inherited terrible soil and started planting. Well, no surprise, low yield and the soil was still horrible. Used fertilizer, still low yields and bad soil. I started getting into permaculture and started composting, and i let the “weeds” go wild. Within 5 years everything was lush and yields were multiples of what they were before.

@reneebulkley1333 12 күн бұрын

Well put. Thank you.

@brandonbloemendaal3814 9 күн бұрын

I would love to know if you have any recommendations for online retailers to source our cold hardy trees and shrubs? Thank you for your wealth of knowledge you have shared! The library of permaculture is incredible gift to humanity. I stumbled upon the channel a few weeks ago and have been feasting on them any spare second I can. Cheers from South Dakota

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 8 күн бұрын

Usually the best thing is to buy local. Local growers will have the best varieties for the area. I would always go as local as possible

@Shravanidakeens1178 13 күн бұрын

11:49 such an amazing point. Not enough of us get angry enough to make change. You should do a joint episode with Strong Towns or Climate Town! Great video

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

I love both of those ❤️ I would be honored

@toloque3553 12 күн бұрын

Love the video, great explaination what's going on now as i saw many industrial farms try to move in organic way but fail to do so because bad yield as they consider and too much pest without much learning about their soil health. Kinda like putting new packaging on the same old product.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

Lipstick on a pig

@donnavorce8856 12 күн бұрын

Yes. Feeding the soil = healthy plants, and healthy everybody else too. Thanks for another great message. Love the guild concept! It's helped me so much. For me feeding the soil means nearly zero soil exposure to summer heat. Mulching, protecting, composting in place. I have a big compost heap but when harvesting compost (weeding 😄), if they aren't too large and woody they get laid down in place to protect the soil. 100% green plants solar panels above to shade all soil.

@donnavorce8856 12 күн бұрын

Re: paving paradise. 45 years ago while in ag college my professor told all of us that we were sitting on grade A farmland and that was what was getting built over. That was So-Cal in the early 70's. That grade A land was growing food for humans - asparagus to zucchini - not cattle feed commodities. The building over continues. Not all of it has been suffocated just yet. They're trying though.

@garrettpeters3438 12 күн бұрын

This is a great video and a thorough explanation of how to look at yield through a new lens. I am part of a community garden where we strive to maximize the amount of photosynthesis to cover bare soil. This is easier in some areas than others. Between our fruit trees for example, we plant small fruit bushes, strawberries and native perennials. In our tomato rows, we plant basil between the plants. We have not found a solution in a community setting for a cover crop between our potato rows. Do you, or anyone have a suggestion for us? We would like to be able to hill the potatoes during the growing season. The other possibility would be to cover the soil with straw to avoid having bare soil but this will not increase photosynthesis nor attract other pollinators.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

I'm a huge fan of clover in a situation like that. It brings in pollinators and fixes nitrogen.

@susana.esteves 12 күн бұрын

great video

@RayMirshahi 12 күн бұрын

Not to be a nitpicker 😅, but potatoes as they are grown by us don't depend on pollinators. Sadly, our agriculture often favors cloning (asexual reproduction) to safeguard a limited number of cultivars instead of promoting biodiversity. Great video and excellent points. Thanks for sharing.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

True that potatoes when planted from tubers are clones and don't need pollination. But that doesn't mean that pollination isn't important for potatoes. We get new varieties through pollination done in research fields. If diseases ever pop up and kill current varieties, it will be very important that we have diversity and can select ones resistant to new diseases. Look at what has happened to bananas. The same thing could happen to any crop.

@sirmrwatson 12 күн бұрын

So true! Also when we look at how the zapatistas in Mexico or other indigenous communities manage their land as commons that show why capitalism and private property encourages this short sighted, selfish behaviour. A better world is possible!

@user-uz3di2zu4n 12 күн бұрын

love your videos; currently looking for my place on this earth to put food foresting into practice! such a wonderful way to teach good stewardship. would love to recommend a book to all (most likely it has already been mentioned - still worthy of more shout outs! it's called dirt by david r. montgomery and an awesome read. food foresting is the antidote to the demise of our ability to grow what we need for sustainability, everyone can play a part and we all have hope

@tommyhundersmarck7018 12 күн бұрын

Then there are also other factors that needs to taken into account, such as skill and quality of the yeild. If the quality of the most nutriusiuos food appears to be low due to lack of skill, perhaps the yield wont be attractive enough to be eaten or even harvested. You might think that this is the best food you can eat, but your family might look at the same food and think it's full of worm or something else because of insect preassure, or perhaps the nuts are so small that it's more of a hassle to prepare them than it's worth.

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 11 күн бұрын

Great points, especially for a commercial grower. So they may have to tweak the system and make small compromises

@michaelgamelli7903 4 күн бұрын

I'm curious how you handle fruit pests such as codling moth

@GodExplained 10 күн бұрын

I am working on a property with a very arid climate, and a soil that’s mainly sand. I’ve gathered some woodchips, but only a few loads which are not enough to do a thick layer on all of it. I started by sheet mulching around the trees, about 3ft (1m) around each tree, thick. Then, I’m spreading woodchips in the most depleted areas, but not thick at all (I don’t have enough material). Would you say that some woodchips are better than no woodchips, even if some bare ground is still exposed?

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 10 күн бұрын

I would focus on a smaller area and do it properly. Find out what your most limiting thing is. Determine the size of area you can do properly. Do that area and do it right. In future years, expand from the edges and do each area properly, as you expand. See my sheet mulching guide for detailed info on what proper looks like. If you have already bought trees and planted them out, then do as you have done and do the small area around each tree properly, and just expand as much as you can, using the materials you have. But don't spread too thin, just do whatever area you can do in the right way.

@stherky 11 күн бұрын

Would there also be a difference in the nutrient density of the yielded crop?

@stherky 11 күн бұрын

Sorry, just watched the initial video and that’s a main point in there 😊

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 10 күн бұрын

@stherky Yes but it takes time to develop soil. At least 3-5 years. Then it just snowballs from there.

@urferwgdhf 12 күн бұрын

What's the weather there?

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 11 күн бұрын

Brutal heat wave at the moment. All neighbours lawns are dead and brown.

@wmpx34 10 күн бұрын

So basically, don’t have a corporate capitalistic attitude that pursues short-term profit above all else. Unfortunately, our entire society is built upon this very principle. I’m up for tearing it down and starting over, but I highly doubt that’s the sentiment of the general populace.

@johnpollard744 12 күн бұрын

I am confused by the repeated reference to pollinators for potatos?

@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 12 күн бұрын

Pollinators in general

@johnpollard744 12 күн бұрын

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy The video talks about the scientific method but it is not reproducable by others as noted in the video due to a different unmeasurable definiton of yield. I agree with you in concept but comparing yield to conventional farming methods is a fools errand. Traditional farming methods are yield based.

@FatherFH 13 күн бұрын

Biology is like no other science. Normal maths does not apply.

@calhoun1968 12 күн бұрын

"Play on words"...?, are you sure...? Is not the Soul, the "soil" in which the body grows?

@ck-4203 13 күн бұрын

People are in too much of a hurry to think deeply and systematically about pretty much everything it seems. So they end up complying with some arbitrary and destructive paradigm like maintaining a lawn in spite of the fact that simple input/output analysis clearly indicates the practice is entirely inappropriate and should be obsolete.

@Chris-op7yt 13 күн бұрын

ah yes, i havent forgotten about the soil with dancing pixies visiting at night. your block will be bulldozed in 50 to 100 years, and the soil dancing pixies will leave. seriously, soil health needs to be balanced decisions that lead to improved yield, else you're wasting time and money for some dreams.

@NiggleTV 13 күн бұрын

Absolutely loving your videos as I recently discovered your channel I think through the weedy garden! I would be really interested in how you grow your vegetables in your food forest. I learn so much in every single video, thank you for that