Guan Dao vs Dao

  Рет қаралды 3,094

Taoist In Black

Taoist In Black

8 жыл бұрын

Justin and Matt pull out the practice Guan Dao and do some combat vs the Dao. This is a chance to see how traditional weapons combat and sparring stack up with these two, very different weapons! To keep up with what we're doing at the Traditional Chinese Weapons Club check us out on Facebook at:
/ traditional-chinese-we...

Пікірлер: 34
@HungGarEarthBender
@HungGarEarthBender 6 жыл бұрын
I liked the video and I gave it a thumbs up. However, when the long-haired guy was using the guan dao he was using it like a spear which is why I don’t think he did as well. When the weapons were switched the long weapon was used more like a guan dao with longer more powerful slashes and the sword just wasn’t strong enough to defend.
@hemmydall
@hemmydall 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, considering how heavy the claims are of guan daos during their historical use, a full swing could not be stopped with a sword.
@chadlpnemt
@chadlpnemt 3 жыл бұрын
I like this video, learned quite a bit, actually reinforced my own "fighting" style in that I'm going to have more of a tendency not to chase my opponent around (referring to the first guy using the broadsword). Something I see lacking with the broadsword user is that there is little to no lateral movement. Like you've said in previous videos there is that range component. He's already out of your range with his longer weapon and every time you went straight in for him he easily maintained that distance and when you did cut him it was not at close range, you had to reach your broadsword out there. I'm no expert at all in this but observation. If this was a "real" fight, I'm circling and circling and eventually the long range weapon will over commit and you side step with a forward step and slice him. This is just my feedback but great video. Nicely done!
@ladywhirlwind9440
@ladywhirlwind9440 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. Still lots of practice and training to do on it. Will try and post a break down step by step Video of Chen Style Guan Dao as taught to me in part by Master Fu Nengbin and in part by my own understanding. Hopefully it might help someone. I dont have sophisticated video equipment so it will be basic editing.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 8 жыл бұрын
+Lady Whirl Wind Can't wait to see it! Thank you for being willing to share your skills!
@johnnycakes0
@johnnycakes0 7 жыл бұрын
Might I recommend foam padded swords? There are high quality ones up for sale online these days with over an inch of padding. Also, to the first person holding a sword, perhaps find ways to parry or bind the pole arm and rush in. Rushing in may sound risky, but it is less risky than standing outside sword range but within polearm range.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
Rushing in is definitely the right option. A lot of this was just a question of familiarity with the weapon. This was the first time for the student to face off against a pole weapon so you're getting to see the adjustment period live! As for the padded swords, we've tried them, but the action of them is less realistic than the wood. What we've actually switched over to mostly is a pvc practice weapon which you can see in some of our other videos. The weight and resistance on striking is much closer to live weapons, but they are less prone to breakage. Thanks for the input though! Keep the suggestions coming!
@ladywhirlwind9440
@ladywhirlwind9440 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. I enjoy yr videos very much too guys. I will try and put up a video of me doing the Quan Dao in my backyard. There is some video of me doing Chen Quan Dao at the British Taiji Champ in Oxford England in 2015. If you type on KZfaq Ladies Taiji Weapons European Championships 2015 it might come up. Best Wishes.
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel 7 жыл бұрын
Did you make this guan dao yourself? If so, how? I'm not much of a handy man but I'd love to see a tutorial video and give it a go. I can't seem to find anywhere where you can purchase guan dao or other kung fu polearms for sparring (rubber, foam covered, wooden, whatever I'm fascinated by the idea of doing the guan dao moves in sparring and having to improvise and adjust against a resisiting opponent).
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
Hi, Justin did make his own guan dao for sparring. It's pvc pipe, some bolts for weight and several layers of pipe insulation. We'll try to put together a tutorial video for you soon. Thanks for the interest!
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel 7 жыл бұрын
Sounds awesome :)
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel
@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel 6 жыл бұрын
I had a friend construct a wooden one, which I just tested in sparring against a pair of polypropylene hook swords. It's shown in my latest Zen-Dragon video :)
@7dayspking
@7dayspking 7 жыл бұрын
I don't think either is necessarily a great analog for the weapons. The Guan dao (I'm not an expert.) from my understanding is generally an overly heavy training/demonstration weapon...weighing at least 5 kilograms (12 lbs.) and generally upwards of 10 kg (24 lbs.) and certainly not for thrusting. In a real contest an unarmed man might have an advantage against a man weilding a heavy guan dao....if he can grip onto the shaft closing the distance wouldn't be a problem and then it's a contest of hand to hand.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
There are a variety of guan dao historically. Some are very heavy presentation weapons, but they were also used as combat and military weapons. The thrust is a valid attack with the guan dao and can be seen in most of the traditional guan dao forms. As for grasping the shaft, that is a risk as a guan dao fighter, and makes controlling the distance of the fight critical to prevent that from happening. Closing to grasping distance with a pole arm however is not always as easy as it sounds however, if you opponent has any capacity with their feet they can often maintain the spacing and field attacks at you from the open distance that you are vulnerable to as you try to close. This is true regardless of the long weapon, be it spear or guan dao. Certainly the guan dao is heavier and therefore slower, but that weight also adds a lot of force that means in that middle ground of attack range it is formidable.
@7dayspking
@7dayspking 7 жыл бұрын
Taoist In Black Can you point me towards the specific treatises you're referring to (for Guan doa.) and I'll see if I can find a translation somewhere. As for Lighter Guan Dao I was sure most were at least 3 kilograms+ are there any surviving pieces I can see for reference? If the Guan Dao's blade can reach you...your hands can pretty much reach the shaft. this is very basic geometry...the length of the weapon and of your arms does not change, footwork can be used to avoid your opponent running in close but once they've got hold of the shaft unless you can remove their hands at least the blade of the weapon becomes very useless. "Spear vs swords (and knife)"
@baguazhaquan
@baguazhaquan 4 жыл бұрын
where abouts are you guys located. i can use some weapon sparring partners instead of just basic forms
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 7 жыл бұрын
also forgot to mention that the guan dao guy didnt really use the butt of the polearm as much. Especially with a long bladed polearm like that you can use that reach as an advantage but also you can kick, push, punch and all sorts of things. Keep this in mind when doing ANY kind of fighting, is to be creative. Don't limit yourself to a certain way or certain set of techniquese. In fact, there was an opening where i saw the guan dao guy can land a drop kick and finish the dao guy off on the ground with a thrust.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
Totally true! Our inexperience with practical guan dao combat is totally showing through, especially in our tendency to not use the weapon creatively! Though Justin was familiar with the use of the weapon in forms and some drilling, neither of us had done much free sparring with it and we were definitely just starting to get a feel for it. That's a great observation though, and definitely something or us to keep in mind! Thanks for all the great comments!
@ifli
@ifli 7 жыл бұрын
Looks like fun. So much more difficult in sparring. From what I see, the first guy is holding the Guan Dao too close to the end with his left hand so he is losing power and speed. The second guy is holding it better. Slide your hands up to shorten the length if the Dao gets inside. Easier said than done but you seem to be using it too much like a spear. It is more similar to a quarterstaff in use.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
It was a ton of fun! Thanks for the great pointers! We're always looking for more information. We're definitely more sword and soft weapon guys vs the long weapons, though Justin (the second guy) has a bit of experience with them! Let us know if you see anything else and thanks for watching!
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 7 жыл бұрын
Guardian theres a saying where you can analyze someone really well but you wont realize your own mistakes very well in the middle of sparring/fighting. Good obervation tho
@ladywhirlwind9440
@ladywhirlwind9440 8 жыл бұрын
Hi again Guys sorry about the wrong link. Type on you tube LADIES EUROPEAN OPEN WEAPONS. You can look at me at the competition. I wasnt happy with my performance it could have been better.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 8 жыл бұрын
A really nice video! You can definitely see the coiling and fluidity you talk about
@ladywhirlwind9440
@ladywhirlwind9440 8 жыл бұрын
I like your videos. I think you have an understanding of Taiji principles and concepts. I think you probably have more skil than a lot of people considering the amount of rubbish Taiji I have looked at. I dont think my Chen is perfect, far from perfect. The Guan Dao is a heavy weapon which requires a lot of upper body strength and tremendous coiling skill, this is why you see so many Taiji people make a mess of it. Most people who practice Taiji are not martial artists to begin with. They never really understand the meaning of combat. Street fighting, being able to defend yr self with anything available. That's why I combine my Chen with Krav Maga. Martial Art that was designed by the Israel Army in the 1940's. The Guan Dao is a Van guard weapon. Its big and heavy used to take out horse men not really suitable for close combat in confined places. Saying that yr opponent should if skilled be able to keep you at a great distance by using the length of the pole to execute over head circular slices and forward chops. You on the otherhand should take advantage of putting yr opponent off balance and getting him to fully extend himself. You should take advantage of the nimble light weight of yr broadsword to close the distance by applying the many leaping and jumping postures available in the Yang Luchan style of Broadsword. There are many such movements in the 21 posture Chen Broadsword. Unless you are playing you just cannot make a mistake when someone has a long pole, baseball or iron bar. Clinical cuts in the right places. Are you combat trained. Have you any military training?.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 8 жыл бұрын
+Lady Whirl Wind What a wonderful and well thought out reply! Thank you for commenting. Your commentary on the effective use of the Guan Dao is great. We will be the first to admit that we are not particularly good with the Guan Dao. Justin is very familiar with the form, but hasn't spent much time with it in applied combat, and this was the first time Matt had ever worked with one at all. Even working with the sword against one was something of a newer experience for both of us, as it is hard to find full speed, full contact guan dao sparing due to the difficulty in finding suitable practice weapons. Justin had to construct ours specially to make it both safe, but also close to combat weight and balance. That is however, one of the big points behind our traditional weapons combat segments, is to give us, and our watchers a chance to see the real issues and challenges of putting these traditional weapons to use. Please continue to share your insights however, as it certainly sounds like you are better with the guan dao than we are! We are thrilled to have skilled practitioners offering their thoughts here in this open community. As for military experience or combat experience. Neither of us has served in the military, however Justin has done a lot of hard style combat training. Full speed, full contact sparing both armed and unarmed, both Eastern and Western. We totally agree that there isn't enough focus on practical uses of Tai Chi as a martial art out there, and are working hard to change that. Thank you again for your great comment and we hope to hear more from you!
@ladywhirlwind9440
@ladywhirlwind9440 8 жыл бұрын
Guys this really needs some work.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 8 жыл бұрын
We are always trying to improve, both our skills in combat and as videographers. All critiques are appreciated, but you'll need to be more specific if we are going to be able to utilize your feedback. Thanks for watching!
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 7 жыл бұрын
*very lightly taps "He got it" Sorry bud this aint olympic fencing. Under stressful situations people tense up and one poke aint gna put him to the ground
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
A few things. That was not a light tap, being the person on the receiving end of it it was many things, but light was not among them, as you can hear from my solid grunt. Would it have 'put me down in a fight'? Who knows, it was a shot, straight into the middle of my chest where a few important things live and hard enough to draw an audible response. Secondly, none of this was couched as, 'that was the perfect hit' and even the moment you highlight was simply an observation that he landed a blow. Lastly, unless they've recently added pole arms to Olympic fencing I don't think anyone is confused, however in Olympic fencing the weight of the springs at the end of the weapons is specifically measured before each match to make sure that a hit arrives with sufficient force that in actual dueling it would have penetrated, so maybe not the best example of a hit not landing hard enough...
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 7 жыл бұрын
its like you just tap him and you say "hit" like its olympic fencing and for points whereas i dont think you actually thrusted correctly. That dao is not a rapier, and the guandao play was good. But im just saying with a choppin weapon like a dao you should utilize its purpose a little bit more.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
I think I understand your perspective better with this second post. When we are free sparring there is less of what you would consider point style response, the 'I got hit' reset and move on. When we are working for the camera however we often can't tell how clear the action is so we will often pause to identify a hit. As to the thrust, there are plenty of thrusting actions using the guan dao in both combat, and in the traditional forms, and the thrust was executed correctly- rear hand snaps to front to drive the tip, then recovers. There isn't a lot of chopping action in this video and that stems from two things. Matt, the one with the guan dao when the thrust occurs had very little experience with the weapon and was really just learning/trying it out, and secondly what we quickly discovered is that against someone with good footwork and a faster weapon the larger slashing motions typical of guan dao combat left you wide open and got you hit a lot so by the time we shot some video both of us were using more concise attacks. Others might find the play different, but that was our experience. If you're ever in the Austin area and have more experience with the weapon we'd love to have you come out and play with us! It's always better to get more hands on the weapons and more perspectives on combat! Thanks for sharing your opinion though, and please let us know if you see anything else!
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 7 жыл бұрын
you know the cool part about you guys (just to add something positive) is that i think you're the only channel on youtube that I know of that does chinese weapons martial arts sparring and technique stuff. I usually NEVER see that stuff in dojos, or chinese martial arts schools because at least from my experience they only teach forms but never into the techniques like you guys are. So as a korean, I was very impressed with the guan dao(or in my language wuldo) play and ur dao (whichkorean weapons were heavily intergrated by chinese weapons). But yeah you guys keep up the good work.
@taoistinblack4156
@taoistinblack4156 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks! We noticed the same thing about forms vs techniques and sparring. That's why we started this whole thing, and also some of what you see in the videos where things don't always work. We've discovered a couple places where the way it works in the form doesn't work at all when you try to apply it! We like to leave that stuff in there though because we also think it's important to let people see that stuff doesn't always work the first time, and sometimes not at all! It's been quite a journey. Thanks for watching though and always feel free to comment on the good and the bad, that's how we get better!
@simonegardini3449
@simonegardini3449 5 жыл бұрын
fate piangere , per non dire ridere
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