How Supercross Pros REALLY corner... (The secret 2:1 ratio)

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GYPSY TALES

GYPSY TALES

Жыл бұрын

This podcast ticks all the boxes for me... Kris Keefer is a renowned motorcycle test rider and has decades of time in the game. He started his career as a racer, then gear model, OEM test rider and now rules the online space when it comes to the testing of dirt bikes. He has a loyal fan base who over the years has been given some top notch advice on all things dirt bikes and it was a pleasure to sit down for a few hours and talk moto!
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Пікірлер: 49
@koppins851
@koppins851 Жыл бұрын
Keefer is such a G. His MX knowledge is just crazy. And he's the only one who somehow can translate this to the average joe
@scottanlezark6636
@scottanlezark6636 Жыл бұрын
Keefer knows !!! He explains this absolutely 100% perfectly . The one thing I change is the terminology of compression from hard and soft , to fast and slow , and it seems to make more sense in my brain .. and thinking of opening and closing the clickers relate to more or less oil flow , and then it all makes more sense , because if you can’t distinguish these different things you can’t setup suspension , and you can’t even begin to tell a suspension tuner what you need 😂😂😂 fuck suspension !!! Hope this make you laugh !!
@evo5349
@evo5349 Жыл бұрын
Mid stroke hold up suspension, core ab mussels, weight outside peg, elbows up, eye's focused forward in attack position.
@Fitbeforeim40
@Fitbeforeim40 Жыл бұрын
Need to get this content out to all mx fans .. you’re doing well thou bro keep smashing it cuzzy 🤙🏽
@GYPSYTALES
@GYPSYTALES Жыл бұрын
Working on it!
@abpob6052
@abpob6052 Жыл бұрын
When I get riders who ask for help with setup it almost always includes slowing down the fork rebound considerably and teaching them to keep pressure on the front and not let it rebound uncontrolled. Most riders don't test rebound settings and they allow their body to slide rearward on exit and unload the front and then it gets a mind of its own.
@bryanlettow4389
@bryanlettow4389 Жыл бұрын
Hell yeah Gypsy Gang best content out there!
@707LAKE
@707LAKE Жыл бұрын
i just got wp 6500 cartridges on my ktm and this clicker adjustment info helped alot!!
@bryancehelsky4302
@bryancehelsky4302 Жыл бұрын
This is why it is such a challenging sport. You have to be fast, fit, and have a well maintained and set up bike. I'd like to have someone like Kris ride my bike, and set the thing up. Get it good, then I'll do a little fine tuning if needed. I have a 22.5 Rockstar 450, with the only mods being a PR2 link, 5.0 shock spring, McGrath bend bars, 105 sag, fork tubes flush, 145 psi, and 14/52 gearing. 175 lb. Vet Intermediate. I want to try those MX Tech forks, but holy cow $$$.
@GYPSYTALES
@GYPSYTALES Жыл бұрын
The forks are amazing though.
@bryancehelsky4302
@bryancehelsky4302 Жыл бұрын
@@GYPSYTALES I'm sure they are, but are more than I'm willing to spend in addition to a $12,000 bike. The working class in the USA is taking a beating with prices going up relative to wages, which leaves less discretionary income for moto goodies. I did ride a set of PR2 spring converted WP forks, and for only $900 or so seemed to work very well for us penny pinchers. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder and wallet holder.
@jaymcintyre9362
@jaymcintyre9362 Жыл бұрын
14/52 on the 450 is BIG. kudos.
@bryancehelsky4302
@bryancehelsky4302 Жыл бұрын
@@jaymcintyre9362 The bike came with a 13/51. I believe the 14/52 is about the same ratio as a 13/49. The 13/51 was good, but a little jumpy in second gear and I was going up to 4th in relatively short straightaways. 14/52 smooths out second gear and third pulls much further. It's mostly personal preference.
@lewdubbin81
@lewdubbin81 Жыл бұрын
His articles are amazing. Please keep writing ✍️
@Chris-uh3cm
@Chris-uh3cm Жыл бұрын
WE NEED MORE OF THESE TIPS !!!!
@sunrealclothing
@sunrealclothing Жыл бұрын
Keefer is genius about setup! If I ever get a bike again, or sponsor a rider... I'd love to have a Keefer Handbook on Motocross & Supercross Bike Setup! I'm a gritty 53... but I recall Jeff Spencer's book Total Taping... for preventative maintenance. And we also started meditating on our race before the gatedrop. Enjoy Houston and we'll see how Deegan has progressed since Tampa... and if Chase can close out a win? ✌😎
@KyleTGomez
@KyleTGomez Жыл бұрын
Wow! Every action causes a reaction. That is just genius 👏 👌 🙌 🤣
@josephfelice601
@josephfelice601 Жыл бұрын
6:26 Great idea!!!
@PaulRichards78
@PaulRichards78 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Keefer and Jase for question
@zealobiron
@zealobiron Жыл бұрын
Approach dex, Apex and Exit dex
@BrandonLoudermilk-gl4lr
@BrandonLoudermilk-gl4lr 7 ай бұрын
I.gott mad respect for Supercross ryders and motocross ryders but i enjoy watching motocross more just a tad.
@therealbabytooth
@therealbabytooth Жыл бұрын
Where's that article he's talking about?
@jamielangston4761
@jamielangston4761 Жыл бұрын
Why have they not been streaming the supercross lives lately?
@rickvonderchek6898
@rickvonderchek6898 Жыл бұрын
The best guy for cornering watch Jeffery Herlings he holds more speed in corners than anyone else
@bbb129
@bbb129 Жыл бұрын
Not In supercross he doesn’t
@rickvonderchek6898
@rickvonderchek6898 Жыл бұрын
@@bbb129 well a few years ago in Paris he was buried in pack came threw to pass Dungy for the win so don’t tell me he can’t do the same in supercross look for it on KZfaq
@bbb129
@bbb129 Жыл бұрын
@@rickvonderchek6898 Paris supercross is amateur supercross and also I don’t believe you haha what was this 2009?
@rickvonderchek6898
@rickvonderchek6898 Жыл бұрын
@@bbb129 2017
@rickvonderchek6898
@rickvonderchek6898 Жыл бұрын
@@bbb129 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rshgd8901teop3k.html here it is
@Mav646
@Mav646 Жыл бұрын
He said in area 2 your working on your rubber in the mid stroke 🤷‍♂️😂
@brockwilson771
@brockwilson771 Жыл бұрын
2 compression softer 1 stiffer on the rebound dampener… is that done to the rest Rear suspension also…?? Pardon my ignorance… when I improve 1 thing something else gets worse …
@DinoAungpe
@DinoAungpe Жыл бұрын
Keefer looks like micky ward 🥊
@senditsillly1423
@senditsillly1423 Жыл бұрын
1
@johnhopperstad2785
@johnhopperstad2785 Жыл бұрын
That part of sextons issue is Suspension so stiff he is constantly losing the front imo
@chrisvillarreal2752
@chrisvillarreal2752 Жыл бұрын
I actually read my manual… and the suspension recommendations they make were FLAWLESS for the riding conditions I set out to ride in… the WP air forks 21-22 are the absolute tits. Supercross, motocross, woods, and a bit of enduro all with stock suspension. Read your manuals people it’s not that hard.
@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104
@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104 Жыл бұрын
My KX450 manual specifically says changes in the rebound has an effect on compression. I haven't figured exactly why, but it's in the manual and it's true.
@alfredk471
@alfredk471 Жыл бұрын
The Vark electric motocross bike got rave reviews from all the test riders that rode it at their press-day launch in Spain. Most of the riders felt they would be faster on the Vark than on the conventional 450's that Vark provided for comparison. They also noted how much more difficult they found riding the IC bikes after they had ridden the Vark. Why is that? Motocross is extremely difficult sport. Operating an Internal combustion motocross bike is actually a very complex task. THE COCKPIT The "cockpit" of a motocross bike is very busy, with half a dozen controls. You have a steering control (the handlebars), used for directional control and balance, then on the handlebars, on the right side, is a throttle control and a front brake control, and on the left side, a clutch control. These hand controls have to be operated while still holding on to a constantly accelerating and bouncing machine. So riders have to use their hands not only to hold on to the machine but to operate the steering, clutch, throttle and front brake. And then riders have to use their feet to operate the rear brake and the gear selector. Simpler tasks are easier to do at speed than complex tasks. Simplifying the controls of a motocross bike makes it easier to ride it faster. Electric motocross bikes simplify the cockpit by eliminating two controls, the clutch and the gear selector, thus making operating an electric motocross bike simpler and therefore easier to operate at speed, making it possible to ride faster. Having fewer controls reduces the load on the rider, making operating a motocross bike easier and easier translates into more speed. Electric bikes have shown that by simplifying the controls riders can ride faster with more consistency. And motocross is all about speed. FREEING THE FEET The lack of a clutch gives riders the option of moving the rear brake to the handlebars, thus freeing up their feet from having to operate any controls. On a conventional internal combustion motocross bike, a rider is forced to move their feet hundreds of times during a race. Freeing the feet from having to operate controls makes it much easier for a rider to maintain optimum form, with the balls of their feet on the footrests. Constantly having to move your feet to operate the controls interferes with keeping the balls of your feet on the pegs, with gripping the bike with your legs, with weighting the outside pegs in corners, with putting your foot out in corners. Substantially reducing foot movement takes a load off the rider, making riding a motocross bike noticeably easier. A rider can brake-slide into right-hand corners with their leg out and into left-hand corners with the ball of their foot weighting the outside peg. The next most disruptive control requiring a lot of movement, is the twistgrip throttle control. Just like having to operate foot-controls disrupts staying in form with the lower body so does the twistgrip throttle control disrupt staying in form with the upper body. The twistgrip throttle requires up to 70 degrees of rotation for full throttle. Operating a twistgrip throttle forces the rider to kink their wrists and lower their elbows. Good form requires straight wrists and high elbows. Low elbows reduce the rider's control of the machine, one elbow up and one down, even more because of the asymmetry. Impacts are best handled with straight wrists and high elbows. THE SOLUTION What if the rider were to twist the throttle-grip but instead of the grip rotating on the bar, a sensor measures the force of the twist action and opened the throttle accordingly but without any actual movement of the throttle-tube. Just like when you stand on an electronic scale, the scale does not move, but the pressure sensor gives an accurate readout of your weight. This could initially be done using a standard twistgrip throttle control assembly but instead of the rotation of the throttle tube pulling a cable that opens the throttle valve, the cable is connected to a lever that pushes on a pressure sensor (a load cell). The pressure sensor measures the force applied by the rider and relays that information to a ride by wire throttle control unit which opens the throttle accordingly. At production, a pressure sensor (load cell) could be incorporated into the throttle housing instead of the position sensor used currently, in ride by wire throttle controls. With a tradition throttle control, a rider determines the amount of throttle by rotating the twistgrip throttle tube. The position of the throttle tube determines the amount throttle. With my system the amount of throttle is determined by how much force the rider exerts on the throttle tube without the tube actually rotating. The ratio of force to throttle opening needs to be determined by extensive testing, too low would make throttle control too sensitive and too high would cause fatigue. Individual fine tuning by the rider will be possible. With my system the twist action to open the throttle is the same as the conventional rotating grip throttle, (it takes a twist force to spin the throttlegrip) the difference is that instead of the throttle tube rotating and pulling a cable that opens the throttle, a pressure sensor measures the twist force the rider applies and sends that information to a control unit that opens the throttle accordingly, without any rotational movement of the throttle tube, thus avoiding a kinked wrist and a lowered elbow. The actions are so similar that riders shouldn't have a problem adapting. The advantage is riders can apply throttle without kinking their wrist or lowering their elbow. This would make staying in form with a straight wrist and high elbow much, much easier. ADDITIONAL BENEFITS Increased connectivity to the machine. The handlebars have two main functions, one, they provide grips for the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider attached to the machine, and the other, they are used for steering control which is essential for balance and directional control. There are two grips on the handlebars used by the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider on the bike and also connecting the rider to the steering control. One of them, the right one, is loose and spins on the handlebars. So why have a grip that spins? Necessity. Motocrossers need a throttle control, and trial and error has determined the twistgrip throttle control to be the best option available on carbureted motorcycles. But it is a compromise. While most motocross riders are aware of how the traditional twistgrip throttle interferes with keeping their elbow up and their wrist straight, few however, will be aware of the reduced connectivity to the handlebars and therefore reduced control of their machine a loose spinning grip causes because it's all they have ever known, so they are unaware of this negative affect but if you doubt that a loose grip is detrimental to connectivity, feel and control ask yourself if a downhill mountain biker would choose to have a spinning grip. No downhill mountain bikers would choose to have a spinning grip for obvious reasons but not obvious to motocross riders because it is all they have ever experienced, it's all they know, so a spinning grip feels natural and normal to them. Asking a motocross rider if they would like to have the left grip loose and spinning should help them realize that loose spinning grips are detrimental to connectivity, feel and ultimately control. Motocross bikes have progressed quite rapidly and are now fuel injected which presents an opportunity for another system of throttle control, a system that does not require a spinning throttle tube to control the throttle. ASYMMETRY Another thing to consider is asymmetry. There is an inherent asymmetry in having one grip loose and one grip solid. This results in asymmetry in the riders physical position on the bike when they are applying throttle, with one elbow up and the other down. Asymmetry is detrimental to control of the bike. No one wants bent bars or one footrest higher or further back than the other. Watch the start of any motocross race and you will see riders with one elbow up and the other down. SOME HURDLES TO OVERCOME Ride by wire My system does requires a ride by wire type of throttle control unit. Currently non of the manufacturers offer ride by wire on their motocross motorcycles. I am aware that the FIM has currently banned ride by wire throttle control for reasons that are unclear. I cannot think of a rational reason why the FIM has banned ride by wire for MXGP. It certainly cannot be for safety reasons because ride by wire is used on 200hp superbikes and it can't be because of costs because it is also used on budget bikes like the KTM 390 Duke. As far as I know the AMA has not banned ride by wire. I am sure the FIM could be persuaded to lift their ban, surely they do not want to stand in the way of progress? Proof of concept tests No current motocross bike has ride by wire, so to test my system would require converting an OEM motocross bike to ride by wire. I think it would probably be easier for initial proof of concept tests to be done on an electric bike like the KTM Freeride E, the Alta, the Vark or the ElectricMotion trials bike. continued below.
@alfredk471
@alfredk471 Жыл бұрын
WHISKEY THROTTLE Some people have commented that they think my system could result in accidental throttle openings (whiskey throttle) while bouncing around a motocross track with high impacts like square edge bumps and hard landings. (Some of those may have confused twist force with squeeze pressure.) My argument against that is that any action that would cause accidental throttle on my twist force throttle control, would also cause accidental throttle on a conventional twist position throttle control, so a twist force throttle would not be more prone to accidental throttle than a traditional twistgrip throttle. In other words any action that resulted in an unintended twist force being applied to the throttle grip would also result in the rotation of a traditional throttle's twistgrip. Both systems require a twist force to increase throttle, it is just that with my system there is no rotational movement. Surely if riders can keep the throttle-tube in a consistent position without unintentionally moving it while bouncing around a motocross track they would be able to keep a consistent twist pressure while bouncing around a motocross track. My twist pressure throttle control will not cause any more accidental throttle than the traditional system. In fact I believe it could result in less unintended throttle because it is easier to reduce twist force on the throttle grip without actually having to counter rotate it than having to counter rotate the throttle tube while being pushed back by the accidental acceleration. I believe my throttle control system would not only be beneficial in motocross but hard-enduro, trials, off-road and even in the high precision world of MotoGP. Alfred Karius
@keithpeterson6108
@keithpeterson6108 Жыл бұрын
Area 1...forks Area 2...balance between forks & shock Area 3...shock. Forks on the way in Fork/shock balance mid Shock on the way out Keefer is a rider. Not really the best at understanding how a bike & suspension works. Not bashing on him, just saying.
@Tyler.56
@Tyler.56 Жыл бұрын
He’s a rider who actually has really good understanding of how the bike is working which is why he’s a test rider. He can get on a bike and point things out to the manufacturer or just your average person and tell them everything he feels on bike
@keithpeterson6108
@keithpeterson6108 Жыл бұрын
@Tylerw56 He doesn't understand how it works. He goes by what he feels or wants the bike to feel like, but he definitely doesn't know how it works. His advice is contradicting at times. He means well & I have no issue with him. I watch his reviews & read between the lines. For instance, his talk about the forks on exit. Cranking in the rebound to "hold them down" is most definitely NOT the thing to do & the forks don't work like that. The rear of the bike is how you control what the forks feel like OFF the turn (area 3). More rear hold up will allow the bike to steer more off the corner. This isn't always needed or wanted as it affects other areas, but whatever the track conditions warrent & what allows the rider to be the most comfortable on is what you go after. There is a point of "too much" for everything on a bike. Finding that balance/recipe is the target. So to keep it simple & reference Keefers corner areas: Area 1 entry Area 2 apex/mid turn Area 3 exit Area 1 forks &/or rear ride height as both affect the bikes attitude on entry. Area 2 balance between forks & shock (spring rate balance/distance suspension compresses & damping balance) Area 3 shock (how much the bike squats as the power is applied more aggressively & the weight transfer squats the rear). It can get a lot deeper & more technical, but paying attention to those few things & getting them working will g8ve a rider a way better dialed bike.
@timjohnson8725
@timjohnson8725 Жыл бұрын
Smoke more keef....
@vinceseyb2640
@vinceseyb2640 Жыл бұрын
I disagree. A soft/plush fork is vague and offers no feedback. A firmer setup offers more feel and a better tire contact patch. No different than moto gp, f1, or any other motorsport.
@lachypetersen1015
@lachypetersen1015 Жыл бұрын
This is dirt, not tarmac... Softer suspension maintains contact with the ground better giving better traction (what Keefer refers to as "feel"). A stiffer setting however will deflect more and give less traction, thus is less predictable or has less "feel". Riders look to find the best compromise between grip for cornering from softer suspension and hold up from stiffer suspension for bumps etc.
@vinceseyb2640
@vinceseyb2640 Жыл бұрын
@@lachypetersen1015 what your alluding to is the allusion the "soft" suspension will allow the wheel follow the irregular ground more freely. While this is true to a point especially in contrast to extremely stiff suspension, traction is the result of force applied, and a firmer setup applies more of the motorcycle and rider weight to the tires. As for feel, in layman's terms, drag a boiled piece of spaghetti pasta across a rough surface then carry out the same experiment with a dry piece and get back to me with which one offered more feel!! 🤷‍♂️
@bryancehelsky4302
@bryancehelsky4302 Жыл бұрын
A properly valved and sprung fork can be both firm and plush. It is very hard to get them just right to feel good going through nasty braking bumps and not bottoming hard on big hits. It is a science. Focusing on riding properly and being able to feel what the bike is doing, then making proper adjustments is a huge challenge.
@vinceseyb2640
@vinceseyb2640 Жыл бұрын
@@bryancehelsky4302 no not really. The level of damping force required for say supercross dictates how much low speed damping you need. Study force vs displacement graphs, automotive tuners refer to it as a foot ball graph. It also needs to said that the word plush has no correlation to suspension.
@skippyf.t.pfilmthepolice2358
@skippyf.t.pfilmthepolice2358 Жыл бұрын
Madman Fan 🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘🤠🦘🦘
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