Every time I find myself wishing I had learned about HEMA when I was younger I need to go back and watch this fight
@chopstick16716 ай бұрын
Same lol
@raifsevrence3 күн бұрын
This doesn't even look like HEMA. It looks like Angry amtgard cosplayers flailing away.
@Tahllia6 ай бұрын
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
@joevervalin11036 ай бұрын
The exchanges that would get both fighters black carded in a tournament today set to Naruto recorder music really set the tone for what was to come.
@AaronHudson7776 ай бұрын
This was brutal to watch and only the commentary got me through it haha. HEMA is night and day different, and it is incredible how far it has come. Great video.
@tomo28076 ай бұрын
I don't think Hema is "dying" because it's "less martial", but there's a point that some people make, being scared of a martial art getting watered down over time, it's been observed with many martial arts...but it's not happening to Hema, as long as people spar and train realisticly there should be no worries
@cosc_HEMA6 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure there was a steel tournament at the same event that looked quited different (IE more like what you'd expect to see now). But in general HEMA has come a long way in time.
@JesterJahima6 ай бұрын
I have mixed feelings. Thank you. Goodbye.
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
He's shook
@themasterofreality67656 ай бұрын
its like bohurt without armor
@Rocknoob496 ай бұрын
and without clean wrestling and without rules
@oscaranderson57194 ай бұрын
aka dohurt
@TheMissingno6 ай бұрын
The greatest match of all time has finally hit the mainstream
@fabricio-agrippa-zarate6 ай бұрын
wow, it was so much better back then
@Overdrawn_6 ай бұрын
Link to this video should be a response to any "back in the day hema better" argument.
@BernasLL6 ай бұрын
I think the reference those people are using, for saying it is too sporty, is not the 2010s. It's a reference of what we ("we" HEMA, IMHO) should be aiming for, with our modern resources, to make it as representative of civilian defense fencing, as the treatises purposed to represent. Meaning, trying to replicate the context of the treatises as realistically as possible, whilst keeping an acceptable level of safety. Varying rulesets according to gear and even level of expertise. And just whatever you want to do, even if it's not HEMA, so long as you're straightforward about what you're aiming at. As any martial art that actually tries to represent the context of a specific fight, as opposed to being "just" being good and fun (which is perfectly fine, just doesn't lead to the H in HEMA. Which is fine, just not HEMA. Keeping in mind HEMA treatises themselves fall on a "martial violent sport to ""true" defence" spectrum). Any sportification artifact should be criticized and accepted only after such pro vs cons scrutiny. Like it happened in plenty of martial arts that wanted first and foremost to represent a form of defense in a given context. Like it has happened in HEMA in the past, in the context of very different gear available and tolerance to violence amongst historical practicioners. And I would argue we need to keep having this discussion, as more representative and safe gear is developed, not halt in this point in time, like some other martial arts turned sports for the masses. I also think that it's great that HEMA is still so divided and ununiform, that everyone can try its own thing, some with grappling and punching, some with none, different levels of realism for different people. The way we keep it this way is by letting people on both sides and the middle moan about "this is not historical enough" and "this is not civil / accessible enough" :D Once this discussion turns taboo, and everyone falls neatly in line to one interpretation and ruleset, the sport closes in on itself, and becomes gradually more full of widespread artifacts with little to no martiality.
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
Unfortunately "civilian defense" isn't exactly what historical sources were made for. They were advertisements for the fencing school of the master, advertised specifically at wealthier people with disposable income who could read (which was more than people think). With that in mind, essentially every fencing manual was meant for people who would go to fencing class to have a safe (for the medieval period) place to practice and 90% of those people would never have a single duel or "real" swordfight in their entire lives
@BernasLL6 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns That is true, of course, we should always be sceptical of everything, and always debate what is most valid, in regards to what we want to achieve! Which is what I was argueing :D One would have to wonder what the masters & historical practictioners would have done with our safety gear, since they were already ready to risk to much safety wise. I think we would be surprised to how many would have had "duels" with "black swords" with real bruises and injuries. Not truly risking their lives but still far beyond what we would consider acceptable to learn the craft of their class. Probably all of them, if we go with Godinho's accounts of violence between students and surviving practices like the Mensur, and also Fechtschulen. Did edit it a bit, you answered too quickly ahah, didn't expect that.
@BernasLL6 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns I feel we're on the same page, certainly on the same chapter :D I 100% agree with the sentiment in the end of the video, martiality and sportification are not to form dogmas. A single format that is accessible to EVERYONE is not a great goal, as it wouldn't be making everyone have to go learn grappling, wear dangerously low gear or allow for every martial thing in the manuals (pocket full of rocks comes to mind). We should let each other do their own things. Then talk sh*t about it if it turns out silly in our POV :D
@KIDFISTOMFC6 ай бұрын
I was initially afraid that this was from a recent HEMA tournament, and breathed a sigh of relief hearing this was so long ago. Great video, and super interesting to see this!
@levifontaine81866 ай бұрын
Safest longsword match
@bennymountain16 ай бұрын
Man, this is what nerd rage looks like lmao 😂
@percivalconcord92096 ай бұрын
I remembered an interview a that mentioned earlier on with tournaments, the overeagerness of fencers back then to “prove” the martial validity of HEMA. Coupled with the uncertainty when fencing other clubs lead to a period of stuff like this before people sorta got that ego out of their system. I suppose the most superficial method giving the impression of a “serious sport” is by violent demonstrations of hard knocks. It’s a natural thought, like when it comes to point-style semi-contact vs others like Muay Thai. I mean people like to model their training methodology based on sports fencing or brag about their Judo/BJJ background and it seems to give the activity more validity when fencers practice HEMA more like athletes. But whatever, just yapping myself.
@TheEpicPancake6 ай бұрын
Well that was horrific.
@PXCharon6 ай бұрын
That's about what I'd expect from a dude in an ARMA shirt...
@Zwerchhau5 ай бұрын
I don't see anyone in an ARMA shirt?
@Zwerchhau5 ай бұрын
It says AMEK you rube. (Hint: ARMA shirts are red...)
@WakeUpUniverse666 ай бұрын
Drops sword and goes for a clinch and knee lmaoo
@frenchgalloglass52046 ай бұрын
I like some intensity in fencing matches, but this isn't just high intensity; it's high stupidity
@AlexanderRobocop6 ай бұрын
Great commentary. What a shit show. I started in 2014 and the fencing then was terrible at every level. What we see these days is orders of magnitude more skilful, athletic and martial. Thank god we kept moving and will continue to get better as the years progress.
@rcarfang26 ай бұрын
Foam, Rubber, and plastic swords can leave a nasty bump or scar on your face. My friend whacked my nose with a foam sword. It didn't bother me though but I did feel the damage and left a minor bump.
@tonyk46155 ай бұрын
This video provided some very good context. Thank you!
@DH-xw6jp6 ай бұрын
Dropping swords and going fist to fist with dirty tactics is _probably_ *a lot* more historically accurate than the measured and refined duels that we see today. ...just saying.
@FrenchHemaBoy6 ай бұрын
In fact, not really.
@zantman10006 ай бұрын
No.. you have a weapon in your hand, use it. People of the middle ages knew this quite well and wrote it into their treatises.
@Cam_Raleigh_VA6 ай бұрын
You’d be surprised how difficult it is to punch someone if your hands are gone
@Ghost-ql3hl5 ай бұрын
I mean if all else failed you would tackle them and try to get your dagger under their armor
@Zwerchhau5 ай бұрын
@@FrenchHemaBoy There are literally plates out of the Fechtbücher showing this but OK
@josiasarcadia6 ай бұрын
Excellent video! Fight was ASS 😂
@gurkfisk896 ай бұрын
To add some context to this from my memory. Luis Preto in white here was at Swordfish holding a Jogo Do Pau seminar. The Pentti swords was more similar in weight and length to the one handed sticks he was used to and not the two handed staff. So the first matches he did he used the longsword one handed the whole time. This is a bit later match when he had started to use it more in a two handed grip.
@SixDeadZeroHEMA6 ай бұрын
I don't know if I would even call this HEMA. Every single exchange should be a DQ for one or both of the "fencers". I think when people say that HEMA is just LARP, this is what they're picturing. Thank god we grew and I'm excited to see how far we come in another ten years.
@raifsevrence3 күн бұрын
Well, to be fair, it _might_ work in a fake fight. I don't think you get to conduct yourself in the same unrealistic ways once there are bladed weapons in play and it's no longer a game.
@McSwordio6 ай бұрын
This video was thoroughly entertaining, and very much on point (absolutely no pun intended given the fighting quality). I can feel the sound of the Penttis. Next weapon purchase: a plastic cutting board.
@WaybackFencingClub6 ай бұрын
Lol so this is what modern sabre looks like without priority and crossing feet on the attack allowed.
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
I don't think even moder saberists punch each other
@awesomeFrost6 ай бұрын
Dude I don't even know what HEMA is and I can tell whatever they're doing is wrong. This reminds me of my teenaged larping sessions.
@tomo28076 ай бұрын
As an mma fighter I see this is an absolute win
@Tahllia6 ай бұрын
Thanks for doing the video. I think there’s a lot that can be learned even from bad fights/exchanges. This also makes me wonder what our fights would look like now if we had stayed with minimal protective equipment but our swords had gotten better. Would people be more cautious before fear of broken bones? Or would we have crazy buffalo strategies coming from people with no sense of self preservation? It’s just a theory that I have little interest in testing, but I do wonder
@WolfVdME6 ай бұрын
How old is this footage?
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
2010
@Valkaneer6 ай бұрын
Those crap swords were 90% of the problem. It's not like they were trying to go for Chinese swords. I wouldn't even want to practice with those swords unless the purpose of them was to work on proper edge alignment and not actually striking anyone. Swords like that encourage injury and to piss someone off getting hit with a slap instead of a blow.
@bullphrogva18046 ай бұрын
You're right that these doofuses aren't putting the MA in HEMA... but I will disagree with the premise of this video. I actually would say that these two are a harbinger of what is to come with HEMA. Their brutish tournament does not point towards a more serious martial validity, but points towards a sterilizing competition that will gut the soul of HEMA that many practitioners enjoy today. HEMA has become very modernist.
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
Good. Feel free to cripple yourself with historically accurate injuries somewhere else
@trevormilliner81215 ай бұрын
Time to learn some grappling brother!
@bullphrogva18045 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns I don't think you understood what I said if you think I am encouraging "Historically accurate injuries." I denounce the overt violence in this video, I outright say that this brutish tournament that you are criticizing does not point towards a more serious martial validity, or is "These doofuses aren't putting MA in HEMA" too hard for you to understand? Given that some of these acronyms are in your name, I'm safe to assume that you would know what they mean. If this type of criticism has you gatekeeping people, then maybe you are the one who should leave the hobby or to be a bit more serious, get off the internet. I am saying that modern HEMA is downstream of what they are doing and it suffers from an increasing amount of modernism. Not that we need to cut each other's legs off you dimwit.
@abelbabel84846 ай бұрын
What the hell am I seeing
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
We all gotta remember where we came from
@abelbabel84846 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns We've come a long way, huh
@Aleksei_Lopatin6 ай бұрын
Jeez 1st time i saw hema in 2009 with Kohutovich fight and that was much better than modern. Obviously u can find such trash nowadays just dig deeper. In fact i can provide video of final slitly better then this fight. So its not an argument
@hermitcleric3 ай бұрын
Fake dichotomy: contemporary longsword is crap, so I'll just compare it to a cherry picked crap video from the past
@rcarfang26 ай бұрын
4:02 to 4:06 is something out of Kenjutsu or Kali/Escrima.
@mspina336 күн бұрын
😮😂
@zantman10006 ай бұрын
The footwork 😂
@user-pm8je4fo7e6 ай бұрын
Never heard of this discipline before. Laughed my arse off. I don't know if it's dying or not, but it sure is a funny one.
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
It's much better now I promise. This was also uniquely bad even for the time and place
@user-pm8je4fo7e6 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns Did my due diligence, looks like you are correct. Although this led to me binging through the Buhurt Word Cup series. Now, that's the real men stuff!
@DeiLiberi6 ай бұрын
This looks like the old ARMA style of fencing. ARMA died. HEMA lives on. Do a little more research into ARMA and the brutality that we witnessed in your video will make sense...even if it nonsense. However, most of the people who created Hema came out of ARMA for many good reasons. ⚔
@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns6 ай бұрын
I'd rather not lol
@chopstick16716 ай бұрын
Sadly, if I’m correct about who the guy in black is, they’re still around in HEMA, although they’re a persona non grata around here
@frankheninja16 ай бұрын
@@chopstick1671name them
@dragaashenoak53386 ай бұрын
@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns Understandable, have a good day.
@gurkfisk896 ай бұрын
@@chopstick1671 For who those two are, the one in black is Mishael Lopez, as I assume that you allude to. The fighter in white is Luis Preto. He had not done any swordfighting before this tournament but was at the event holding a seminar on Jogo Duo Pau. And he was like, "Jogo Do Pau has roots in swordfighting" so when people asked if he would like to take part in the tournament he said yes.
@TheFencingFox6 ай бұрын
Hahahahaha💚
@user-yb3le3vy8c5 ай бұрын
This is supposed to simulate a real sword fight If those swords was real their techniques would be more refined It’s the fact that they are plastic that they did behave the way they did And essentially game it to win vs actually sword fight