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He compared 22 EDITIONS of the TEXTUS RECEPTUS

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Dwayne Green

Dwayne Green

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 37
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 5 ай бұрын
Well done, guys.
@rodneyjackson6181
@rodneyjackson6181 5 ай бұрын
Great video. 22 TR editions. Nestle-Aland 29 editions thus far and Byzantine Editions I know of Robinson and Pierpont and Farstad-Hodges. To be a onlyist on any manuscript family would be ridiculous. If you have a preference, fine.
@squirrelandchick9484
@squirrelandchick9484 5 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for uploading the interview Dwayne.
@michaelsinger2921
@michaelsinger2921 5 ай бұрын
As Dr. Maurice Robinson has convincingly argued, the Byzantine Text is the most stable text. Dr. Decker's approach only reinforces that conclusion, albeit indirectly.
@AJMacDonaldJr
@AJMacDonaldJr 5 ай бұрын
The marginal note in the CP concerning the doxology at the ending of the Lord's Prayer is interesting. The editors say the doxology was a liturgical response by the people and this response, found in Greek Church lectionaries, eventually made its way into the NT text itself. The Latin Church, using the Vulgate, didn't have the doxology in her NT text but the people of the Latin Church have always recited the doxology as a liturgical response after the saying the Lord's Prayer together.
@michealferrell1677
@michealferrell1677 5 ай бұрын
Yes ! I’ve been waiting to hear more from one of our own 1689 guys
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 5 ай бұрын
Ooh-those comments in the TR editions' margins are super interesting! That might make a great paper in itself! And what do the prefaces of these editions indicate about the editors' view of preservation?
@mike29shan25
@mike29shan25 5 ай бұрын
Haha…i was laughing at this comment…then I realized its Mark Ward as im thinking it sounds like Mark Ward..😂😂😂
@patrickjames1492
@patrickjames1492 5 ай бұрын
For me the remarkable point is not the differences between TRs but the perpetuation of oddities, if not errors. Erasmus' end of Revelation persisted despite manuscript discoveries. The (untranslatable) misprint from his only manuscript at Revelation 17:4 was still uncorrected in Scrivener 1894.
@matthewmurphyrose4793
@matthewmurphyrose4793 5 ай бұрын
There's nothing quite like speaking out of both sides of one's mouth.
@cognoscenticycles4351
@cognoscenticycles4351 5 ай бұрын
This is a very revealing interview. I wonder how staunch King James only defenders will react to this new information. This upsets the apple cart in a big way.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 5 ай бұрын
I suspect they will still maintain their position. Many KJVo hold to the idea of a final form of the TR, which is an unpublished edition reflected in the KJV.
@brettmahlen722
@brettmahlen722 5 ай бұрын
"new information" LOL
@cognoscenticycles4351
@cognoscenticycles4351 5 ай бұрын
@@Dwayne_Green I think you are right. They will see the entire process as divinely influenced, so this will mean that whatever ended up the the KJV has to be correct and inerrant. It's a very rigid position that leaves no room for any future consideration of any manuscripts that may come to light.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 5 ай бұрын
@@cognoscenticycles4351 Sure. If you have the final form, you don't need textual criticism. This is part of their argument.
@cognoscenticycles4351
@cognoscenticycles4351 5 ай бұрын
@@Dwayne_Green From their vantage point, they feel God has already provided an inerrant bible, so why question the work of the Almighty!
@brettmahlen722
@brettmahlen722 5 ай бұрын
5:45 The Sermon on the Mount is actually Matthew 5-7.
@notusedexer
@notusedexer 5 ай бұрын
Did you give us any major variants?
@alexmoore7755
@alexmoore7755 5 ай бұрын
God’s word persevered through tens of printed editions of the Greek New Testament, just as it did through thousands of hand-copied manuscripts in centuries past. Of course there is a winnowing process as scribal or printer mistakes, for example, are caught, but this in no way hampers the perspicuity of his word. If there were no corrections or small variations in succeeding editions, there would be no cause to issue them. The point is, the funnel of transmission was narrowing, and the highest view of his word was held by his church, which faithfully performed the task of bringing the scriptures into the printed domain during its earliest years. This is most unlike academia’s post-enlightenment approach to the text today, as well as its ever-widening views of what constitutes scripture. The resultant uncertainty continues to grow and influence the modern church. Thanks for conducting and sharing the interview, Dwayne!
@sincerelygideon
@sincerelygideon 5 ай бұрын
Instead of "putting on your TR hat" and hypothesizing what they'd say, why not just have a discussion panel with a TR advocate (a respected one, not just some guy on Facebook)? The goal should be to understand each other, not talk about one another in isolated silos.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 5 ай бұрын
You haven't looked through my videos! I've spoken with Jeff Riddle, Peter Van Kleeck, and Bryan Ross. This channel focuses on the textual discussion from multiple angles. Though I don't have a perfect understanding of every nuance, I've made it a point to understand the various positions (including KJVo). Be sure to go to my channel page to see MANY more discussions from VARIOUS textual positions.
@purebible1311
@purebible1311 5 ай бұрын
Timothy Decker category: Category I: Major variants (“great significance”) This makes a mockery of textual criticism dealing with real major variants of great significance. Take Matthew 5:25 as an example, virtually unknown as a variant, I think they must have the second "deliver" in some TR editions(s). The apparatus shows it massively supported by Greek and Latin mss against Vat-Sin and the Also-Rans. σε παραδῷ omitted, which is barely translatable. Matthew 5:25 (AV) Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. If you are calling this a "Major" variant, of "Great Significance", your methodology is obviously fatally flawed, and only designed for FUD.
@KeithClick
@KeithClick 5 ай бұрын
A very interesting video. I was completely zoned in through its entirety.
@brettmahlen722
@brettmahlen722 5 ай бұрын
Sorry Dwayne, 7:05, we don't see it as a threat.
@brettmahlen722
@brettmahlen722 5 ай бұрын
23:23 Decker is neither TR or CT, he is really "nuanced." Right... like that is all the world needs, more individualistic, build-a-bear, textual theory from someone whose lack of Latin would disqualify him from any translation committee from the 17th century.
@Michael_Chandler_Keaton
@Michael_Chandler_Keaton 5 ай бұрын
The TR. God’s inspired and preserved word. Before rationalist skeptics invented modern textual criticism, there was NO idea in the church of separating inspiration and preservation. The Reformers and Puritans believed they had access to God's precise word in the original languages in the Received text.
@maxxiong
@maxxiong 5 ай бұрын
The confessions actually say the text was preserved *through all ages*. This cannot refer to an absolutist view of preservation simply due to history. CT has too low of a view of preservation. KJVO has tpo high of a view of preservation to the point of contradicting history.
@sbs8331
@sbs8331 5 ай бұрын
Really? A 17th century Greek text created by an anti-Reformation Roman Catholic priest? The TRO's/KJVO's love to refer to variants among other text families as "corruptions". Using their own criterion and terminology, maybe we should refer to the differences among the many TR's using the same word. How can 20+ editions of a text with many "corruptions" be simultaneously "pure" and "perfect"?
@ST52655
@ST52655 3 ай бұрын
@@maxxiongThis low view of preservation is what makes me dislike the CT so much.
@purebible1311
@purebible1311 5 ай бұрын
AV TR and Byz people have been laughing at this "methodology" of "major variants" since Dwayne Green and Timothy Decker started peddling this nonsense. From an earlier comment on Facebook, slightly enhanced (how much time to spend on absurd argumentation?) ===== Granted, the omission of the Matthew 6:13 Lord's Prayer doxology would be a "Major" variant in terms of textual difference, but ... please ... it was simply left out in the Complutensian Polyglot in a somewhat confused deference to the Latin omission, using the lexicon history as an excuse. The CP was a wonderful edition, and can marginally be considered TR, but really, it can also be quite the irrelevant. Nobody in Authorized Version or Textus Receptus lands has cared about the CP error here for a long time. (e.g. see Burgon's wonderful section in "The Causes of the Corruption".) Somehow, I cannot take this pseudo-MAJOR variant methodology as of any consequence. ================================= Plus, these folks are clueless in not seeing that the Textus Receptus methodology was progressive, (and providential) with major improvements in the pathway from Erasmus to Stephanus to Beza to the AV. So, e.g. in Luke there is a "major" TR variant, when Theodore Beza (first in 1582, I believe) corrected the blunder in the Greek texts which had normalized on "their purification", and gave us the true text, which was preserved in the Latin, various versions and ECW (even in Greek.) Luke 2:22 (AV) And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; Thus the TR preservation and improvements were a process, over a century, not RANDOM, as implied by this faux tripe "methodology".
@Derby_City_Dasher
@Derby_City_Dasher 5 ай бұрын
I'm sure he believes what he is saying, but the fact the editions he reviewed were supplied by Elijah Hixson leads me to believe he was seeking out confirmation bias. The variants he cited are very weak. I don't see none of them as major variants and finding variant's within the Textus Receptus is no threat to Confessional Bibliology, Textus Receptus people or King James people, because all acknowledge variations in the Textus Receptus tradition such as the omission of 1 John 5:7 in Erasmus first 2 editions and the reading of "her purification vs their purification in Luke 2:22 etc. The only type of TR people this would be problematic for are TR generalist and there are very few of those it's a niche position.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 5 ай бұрын
A comparison is a comparison, so the data itself is real. The place where there would be bias would be in the catagorization and interpretation of the variants, which would certainly have some bias in that. I'm sure Decker would agree.
@ianholloway3778
@ianholloway3778 5 ай бұрын
There may be 22 TR versions, but there must only be one that was correct, now lost, used by the AV/KJV translators and later recreated by Scrivener 😉
@patrickjames1492
@patrickjames1492 5 ай бұрын
Not even Scrivener's edition mirrors/is mirrored by the KJV. Scrivener, unlike Erasmus, did not create new Greek in places where the KJ translators seem to have followed the Vulgate (perhaps via earlier English versions). If they followed a lost Greek text, that was unknown to Scrivener and his Greek does not match that Greek. He did not try to make it so.
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