What would really be a winner, is if Blue Circle sold bags of ready dug post holes.

Regardless of the outcome of PostCrete V Concrete can we all just appreciate how much physical effort Stuart put in to do this video 👏🏻

as someone who is not bad at diy ,this guy is so helpful he deserves a medal ,cheers stu

I've used both over the years. Postcrete is a lot faster, and no cleanup to barrow, spades, etc. It also hardens off from moisture in the soil over an extended period, gradually solidifying more & more over weeks, if the ground is generally wet, so doesn't need as much water as shown. Keep adding water to the area, if needed in dry conditions, and it'll be fine. Exposed wood at the base doesn't really matter, as oxygen is very low there, and the rot is usually more of a problem at the top of the concrete, where surface soil is in contact with the post, so building up the concrete above soil-level is a good idea. Also consider what happens in 10-20 yrs, when you need to replace the post - trying to break out full-fat concrete is a real pain once the post has broken off at the base, but post-mixes usually break up easier. Concrete for concrete posts, postcrete for timber posts. Or combination of postmix first to quickly hold position, & concrete at the top? Wear a decent mask.

Both ways you tried are something that personally, I would NEVER DO. When I moved into my house, over 20 years ago, the fence at the side of the drive was rotten. I decided that if I was to replace the fence myself, I better make sure that it not only lasted but was easy to repair if it ever needed doing again. This is what I did: 1) I dug the old posts out (12). 2) I then mixed concrete and instead of putting the posts in, I concreted 3 feet of fall pipe into the ground, making sure that the bottom of the pipe was still on soil. 3) A 4x4 fence post is a nice snug fit in a fall pipe but before pushing the posts in, I filled the pipes with about 5 inches of pea gravel and I soaked the bottom 3 foot of the fence posts in creosote for a few days. 4) I then pushed in the fence posts and filled round the edges with pea gravel. Why did I do this? When it rains, the water goes down the fence post and through the gravel into the ground like a mini soakaway at the bottom of each post. So far the posts are still solid after 20 years, but even if one did rot at the bottom, I merely remove some gravel and replace the post with no more digging of concrete bases EVER. I could literally replace a post in about 20 minutes and have the panels re attached. Hope this is helpful to anyone who is about to put up a fence, certainly something to think about if you are planning on staying in the house for a long time.

Something that comes across strongly watching this, you are very experienced at using concrete but a beginner at using postcrete. I ran a fencing business in the 1970's and we mixed large amounts of concrete when putting in posts but these days when i help friends with their garden fences I always use postcrete for ease. And I do it carefully making sure the mixing is effective. Using a metal bar rather than a piece of wood to thoroughly mix all the way to the base of the post.

I have used Postcrete on hundreds of fencing jobs and have never had any problems. Your cost comparison appears to be based on DIY projects and not commercial projects. Using Postcrete alleviates the requirement of a concrete mixer, the space needed to mix the concrete and clearing the mess after. Also handling Jumbo bags of ballast weighing 800kg in a back garden is difficult. The next problem is that using ordinary concrete, the posts have to be propped overnight which then means a second day’s visit to install the panels. Using Postcrete means that panels can be fitted the same day and smaller jobs are completed in one day which is cheaper and more efficient than having to return a second time. In firm/hard ground, it is possible to only use 1 bag per hole.

What a great impartial video, the effort you went was fabulous. It’s now 3am in the morning, the things you watch when you can’t sleep 😂

Speed's usually of the essence, so I tend to use postcrete. However, after a bit of trial and error many years ago, I tend to fill the hole in stages, i.e. bit of water, bit of postcrete, give it a good stir/tamp and then repeat until I'm at the top. Beats getting out the mixer or barrow and the speed of the accelerant really makes it a one-man job. Great comparison, though - another really helpful and informative video. Many thanks.

What a great video and explanation. I used Postmix for the first time a few months ago and am so relieved that you came across the same experience and questions. I got to the point that I thought I had just not read the instructions correctly. Plus yes, I had to run off to the suppliers to get another two bags. Once finished, as I turned to clean and put away the tools, I muttered to myself that at least it will be easier to get the stuff out when I need to replace the post.

You made very hard work of a very easy process regarding postcrete😂😂😂😂😂

Used postcrete loads. Work’s absolutely perfectly. You do not need such a big hole and one bag per post pretty much does it. It’s for fence posts not foundations for a skyscraper!

Regardless of whether you use Postcrete or (as I prefer) a concrete mix, a wooden post will rot within its 'socket'. I paint the post sides (to just above ground level) and post end with bitumen paint and allow it to dry for a few hours before setting into the hole, to sit on 2-3" of tamped gravel or stone to promote drainage. Add one or two struts to keep the post upright and in the correct alignment and pour in and tamp concrete mix in stages, adding some broken brick or stone lumps around the post after each pouring to both bulk out the filling and help to wedge the post. Make sure the concrete sits a little above the ground and slope it to allow surface water to drain away. If rain is likely, protect the concrete with pieces of brick or wood and leave until the next day before removing struts and fixing fence panels.

Many years ago I worked for RMC (Rugby Cement, now Cemex) and our postcrete instructions recommended adding the mix to the hole then the water after. One thing that many people don't realise is that cement hardens in a chemical reaction. It is also exothermic (it gives off heat) and the speed of setting is sensitive to ambient temperature. So in cold weather it sets slower and in hot weather it sets faster. We used to recommend a kettleful of hot water in cold conditions to help with setting time.

Objective and excellent advice. I've put quite a few posts into our garden and have always used concrete - so my gut instinct has been validated by this unbiased experiment.

Fascinating as always. I thought similar to what you thought when we did our posts for the fence so thank you for clarifying!

I applaud you for the amount of hard work you put in to make this video for us DIYers.

I did this job for the first time recently. Not knowing any better I used Postcrete. Took forever to get the hole a third full of water but once I did I dumped in a bag and stirred it around. Like you it wasn't enough so I threw a bag of gravel in there too. The hole was tapered-out as it descended in the hope that that was a good idea... And before lowering in the post I hammered in some metal pegs I found in the shed so they were splayed out into the ground with a few inches in the hole itself (at this point I was getting impressed with myself for my over-engineering skills). Once dry I covered the last few inches with soil precisely as you showed I shouldn't. We'll see how it goes. I'm near the coast with some serious winds blowing through. Next time I'll follow your instructions and use concrete. That was the longest story about digging a post hole ever. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed the digging. :-) Thank you for your advice.

Very informative video. Thank you. I helped my son in law build a garden fence couple year ago. We set the posts in Post crete. Great stuf. Posts were treated, then i painted them with fence on paint before we erected them.

I’ve used post mix a lot and found that putting the mix in the hole first then adding enough water so the initial mix is very loose then adding the mix till it thickens up. Also using a think piece of metal to mix so you can get right down into the mix

Hi Stuart . Thanks for this video , having used the postcrete product it did seem to work for me . But having said that I did wonder what was going on underground , which you’re demo has explained . With my little project I was able to use the first post to support the fence panel so working out the position of the next , and so to continue the project on the same day . Obviously your preferred method is the best , but to accurately set the spacing of the posts for preformed fence panels is no easy task . I personally would find it quite difficult , but with your skill set you would have no problem . Best wishes and kind regards. 😀👍👍👍

I've never had issues with postcrete. In my experience it goes off quickly to a level sufficient to support a post but then gets stronger over time as it absorbs water from the surrounding soil. It looks to me like you added far too much water. Rather than a 3-day test you need a 3-month test.

I love your passion, thanks for all that hard work, showing the differences across both.

So glad someone did this. Had to put some posts into ground with a high water table recently and was deeply sceptical that postcrete would work well when poured into a hole half filled with water already, but had no other choice. Fortunately I wasn't building a big structure.

Thanks for this Stuart. Really appreciate the effort for this sort of scientific study. I did know the difference but I still found this helpful.

I can't get enough of this channel! These are the things you would want to try yourself but you never get around to. The results were pretty much as I expected although I didn't expect the postcrete to be that soft. A couple of weeks ago I picked up some heavy posts from a fencing store and the gentleman there told me to do exactly what you always do: use regular concrete. He did advise to use a post safer or tar as well. I doubt it is needed when you fill up the hole with concrete all the way to the top though. Far less bacteria will be interested in concrete.

Amazing video - I'm so impressed with the effort you put into making it - thank you !

Great video , i have been fencing for years i always use post Crete and 10mm gravel with no issues , its cheaper , it sets rapidly and has added strength with the gravel .

Interesting comparison. Been using postcrete successfully for many years now, mostly because of the speed of set. However you're absolutely right about the product instructions. You definitely need two bags or more per hole and I quickly realised its better to add product and water together as you fill the hole, ensuring it is mixed as you go. As an alternative i have also mixed the postcrete with water in a barrow and shovelled it into the hole.I also fill with product to the top of the hole! Theres also no reason why you can't put gravel in the bottom first (I do). I have also found the relative softness of the cured product a boon on a couple of occasions where i have had to move a fence, because its much easier to break up than concrete, but ive never had any issues with it's strength. One thing I definitely agree with though is the higher cost, and its cost has increased significantly over the years i have used it, especially in comparison to ballast etc.

I have set many many street lamp columns over the years and have always used a dry mix. Never added any water at all, just allowed capillary action to draw the moisture from the soil. The longer it's left, the harder it gets. I looked at postcrete recently when setting heel drain in the garden, and the contents showed "blue portland clinker" which is possibly why they recommend filling the pot with water.

Great Video. thanks for sharing this info. My dad showed me to place a rock, large pebble or ½ of an old brick under the post to shed off any water away from the base of the post, and also tapering the surface concrete away from the post ( rather than being flat at the top) so that no water stands there. When I bought a new build house years ago the builder had put a fence in and I extended it with a handful of panels using the method above. The builders posts are all long gone having rotted at ground level, and my posts are still there. Thanks Dad!

Great video I’ve used both methods and often wondered what it looked like when dug up, thanks for spending time and effort to do this test

For what it’s worth, my experience with postcrete is as follows. Over the last 10-14 yrs I have fixed around 30 fence posts on my property. I always use 4”x4” wooden posts. I dig the holes 2 ft deep with a post hole digger, but dig it at the minimum size I can (around 8” across I would estimate). I only ever use 1 bag of postcrete per hole, and this usually fills it up to ground level (sometimes with a bit left over). None of the posts have even come loose, although a couple in the wetter areas of the garden have rotted over this last winter at ground level, and I have had to replace those 2 this year. For me postcrete is a no-brainer, and the slight increase in cost (at 1 bag per hole) is more than offset by the time saved in mixing and the fact that within 10-15 mins the post is solid enough that you can start fixing the fence to it.

Stuart, never in 45 years in building trades have I lower myself to use postcrete, it's proper concrete everytime for fence & gate posts. And I sit my posts on half of a perforated engineering brick to allow water to drain, plus post in ground are painted with bitumen to ground level,got got posts I did 20 years ago, rot free & still in use.

Very interesting comparison, great methodology. I have always felt this about postcrete, because you just can not mix it properly. Great work!

Hats off to you for doing all of this. I'm impressed. Gratefull and now know my concerns are justified. Real concrete is the winner on quality and cost.

That lever method was what I used here to remove a line of posts with repair spurs attached. Used a bag of ballast on the end of the lever to hold it down while I wedged the mushroom of concrete to stop it falling back when I reset things.

I worked in landscaping and to put posts in i would mix a bag of postcrete in a barrow and tip it in dry. Level the posts then come back and top up with ballast and cement. Meant you could plumb the posts with a level and not have to brace the posts but not waste 2/3 bags per post. Works out strongest and cheapest.

Thank you first off for the effort you put in on this up , to go back and dig it up is something else 👍, I have never enjoyed using post mix and will be stopping that from now on 👍

Great video, informative and well thought out. Spent a frantic 5 minutes setting a gate post yesterday with postcrete made all the harder when it started bouncing down with rain. Hindsight - standard cement ballast mix and a tarp would have been the easier and less stressful option however real life and it's time pressures got in the way. The rain definitely made the postcrete process more complicated!

For those reading these comments and wanting to know which option is best, remember wooden fence posts do not last forever and will need to be replaced at some point in the future. Therefore, the fixing material needs only to be strong enough to support the wooden post over its natural lifetime, which may only be a few years depending on the quality of the timber, the prevailing conditions and the quality of the installation. As the professionals have already said, postcrete will work perfectly at supporting a wooden post for the duration of its lifetime. And perhaps more importantly, is easier to remove and replace than concrete when you inevitably have to replace the post in the future. If you want to never have to do the job again then fit a concrete post that can't rot, otherwise accept that wooden posts don't last forever and use whichever method you want.

Very enjoyable and informative. I've used postmix many times but concluded that in general a concrete mix is superior on results and cost. Really made me laugh when you dug out the post!

Absolutely brilliant review - you covered everything and I particularly liked the cost breakdown at the end which is so important. I've always used concrete for wooden fence post which are usually easier to support whilst it's curing. I also fill to the top and slope the finished concrete surface for the water to fall away from the post - this is "good practice". However I recently did a concrete post fence and was unable to support the posts due to space and having to leave access. So I put in 2 bags of postcrete per hole, made sure the posts were plumb, the postcrete kept them plumb and then continued with the fence: posts, gravel boards, panels and then went back to the first post and filled up the hole with concrete and then the other holes. This method worked really well and I would definitely do it again and it kept the cost down by not have to use too many bags of postcrete. Thanks again for the great video 👍👏

Many thanks for going to all that trouble. Your test results were very interesting and enough to persuade me to hand mix concrete next time.

Fantastic experiment! I've always wondered how the 2 would compare. Thanks for doing this

Really valuable vid. My dad has ALWAYS mixed proper concrete. I've used post crete. I've often wondered how crap post crete is! I've always assumed that there would be loads of holes down it. You mentioned a gravel bed to the hole, what about a dry mix of concrete, then post, then wet mix around it. That's what my dad does.

A fascinating video Stuart. I would never have thought the PostCrete would have performed so poorly I’m guessing that the PostCrete would continue to cure and harden but the issue with the end of the post protruding is a big one. Keep up the fantastic input Stuart.

Really interesting comparison. I've used both options before and found if the hole and post are not too big, postcrete usually works OK and goes off quickly. I did however sink new 175x175 gate posts last summer and tried to use postcrete again but the ground was too dry; I couldn't fill the hole with enough water to use postcrete. 1hr of running the hose simply wet the sides! Mixing a wheelbarrow of traditional concrete, as you did, solved the issue. Leaving them a couple of days before hanging the five bar gate seemed sensible, but I appreciate that may not be practical if you're a pro fencing/gate installer.

Just about to put some posts in. This'll help decided which way i go. 👍

Another consideration is the following generation of DIYer who will need to dig out your fence posts when it's time to replace the fence and the posts have rotted. Postcrete is easier to break up while in the hole whereas concrete is a nightmare to try to remove. And since the stuff isn't structural it doesn't need to be as hard a normal concrete.

Got all the answers I needed - great review of the two solutions. Thank you.

Really helpful informative video and a very fair summing up. Thanks for going to all that effort to show us the differences 👍

Thank you for a detailed and fair comparison. I've never resorted to Postcrete (and I've done a fair few posts) but faithfully mixed my concrete of ballast and cement - at least I now feel 'vindicated' for the hard work! Looking forward to your next project.

I am a fencing contractor for over 15 years and postmix will take at least 2-3 weeks to cure and let me tell you when it does it goes as hard as marble! Unfortunately this video isn’t as accurate as it could have been! We do however use a different brand of mix alongside this brand. We use a brand called remix has more aggregate in it too. Still a good demonstration nevertheless!

Really enjoyed your video having used both in the past i often wondered what was happening below ground but never enough to dig them back out again and the amount of times I've got halfway through a job and said to myself hmm i never thought of that.

My experience was exactly the same as yours. Love the channel!

Good video. Ive lost count of the amount of posts etc ive set using both, and your findings pretty much echoed what I initially found with postcrete bith when using and removing posts. I think once you understand postcrete and find the best way to use it (ie dont follow the instructions) it has its place, but I still think the 'traditional' method is better, especially for those diyers who lack experience of postcrete.

Stuart, it would have been interesting to see the results after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete as some have said on here. Given its a new post a block on the side and a tractor jack would have been enough to lift the post. As always an interesting video but perhaps a revision video after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete is required?

Great video Stuart, I have used postmix it's ok to replace a post , but you can't beat concrete mix , sand gavel cement Very useful video Thanks , take care and see you on the next one👍👍

I tend to fill the holes with dry postcrete and add water in the hole although this goes against the instructions it's always done me well

I have successfully set many posts over the years using both postcrete and concrete, never used no where near the amount of water you have, concrete semidry mix, postcrete good wet hole no standing water in the bottom, damping the top is so you can shape it. Good video, interesting to see the finished results when you pulled them out, although I think the postcrete issue was because you used too much water.

Great video, I've never used Postcrete & after watching your video never will. I thought you went above and beyond taking those posts out after all the hard work installing them...🙂🙂🙂

Great Video. I always use concrete, much more under your own control. Really interesting to see the results. Your efforts at getting the posts out was worth it :-)

Great video, thanks for sharing. I see another benefit of the Postcrete - you can re-use the posts in the future by just tapping the postcrete off after you dig it up!

My great uncle was a fencer, as am I. He never set timber posts in concrete as he reckoned concrete shrinks and timber shrinks, allowing water ingress and accelerating rot. For a 6’ fence, he’d be using a minimum of 9’ posts, usually pressure creosoted, backfilled and rammed.

Thanks Stuart. Fascinating results.

Awesome video. I have to admit, I’ve used postcrete a lot in the past despite having reservations about how strong it was compared to actual concrete. Now I have no excuses I’ll have to mix my own concrete 😢

I recently (couple years ago ) had to rip down a fence and rebuild it , all the posts that were done with postcrete had protruding post ends The only occasional ones that didn’t protrude ! We’re sitting on in deeper holes and had consumed two bags. The replacement posts were pug in with concrete

I've done quite a bit of field (stob and wire) fencing and I fix my strainer posts in a completely different way. Wooden posts rot at ground level, when I replace a post the bottom of the old post is as fresh as the day it was put in because there is insufficient oxygen down there for insects and rot to exist. To stop the post rotting at ground level I use bitumen paint from 50mm above ground line to about 300mm below ground line. I use a heat gun to heat the bitumen so it really grips into the timber. After a few minutes cool time I give it another thick coat of bitumen. Then I wrap and staple heat shrink polythene over the bitumen and use the heat gun to carefully heat the polythene so it shrinks and melts the bitumen till it is squeezed out the top and bottom. The rule for this stage is keep the heat gun moving otherwise the polythene will melt and you'll get a hole. I run a wet sponge lightly from the middle up then down to squeeze out any air bubbles, but be very careful, get hot bitumen on your skin then it's skin graft time. I put the post in the hole making sure there is 50mm of the now bitumen sealed polythene above ground level. I back fill with soil compacting with a home made tool made out of steel section, basically 5ft (1500mm) length with a 6" (150mm) welded at right angle, so a 'T' shape. When I get about 100mm from ground level I stop backfilling with soil and use a spade to dig a square 2ft (600mm) by 2ft around the post. I find some half bricks or big stones and use a sledge hammer to smash them into the soil around the perimeter, leaving them sticking up out the soil to act as an anchor. I then mix 1-2-4 concrete using 10mm gravel and fill around the stones and pole to ground level sloping slightly so water flows away from the pole. If you're really keen you could silicone the junction between the concrete and polythene but I just paint it with more bitumen.

Thanks for this video as a Builder myself i have often wondered about this well done good video mate. I have always used concrete as its cheaper

My fencing contractor uses a very dry mix or mortar and gravel, it works really well, uses less space, and allows for some movement of the posts which paradoxically helps stability in high winds

Very interesting video, thank you for sharing.

If you have rubble , big broken bricks etc add these as you pour the postcrete in and use a stick to consolidate. You will use less postcrete and the stones add strength and help wedge in the post.

All good info on your channel and very helpful indeed. I previously watched your video on notching out for fitting butt hinges and found it very excellent, especially when marking the hinge positions with a sharp blade rather than a pencil for exact placement... I've subbed your channel, cheers, Keith. 👌

I'm a former fencing contractor in Melbourne Aust. Re 6' Paling fences between neighbours, I've used postcrete or what we call rapid set concrete. My method was to first fill the hole with 30mm of dry, then the post about 3 litres of water, then more concrete in about 3 stages, whilst continually mixing it in the hole with a small crow bar. I've never removed a new post to see the results.

Great to see the comparison, but after only 3 days? I would expect postcrete to take at least a week to solidify. We have hung 13ft farm gates on 8in posts, and still good, about 2 1/2 bags from memory. We always put aggregate in the bottom first. This allows you to get the post at exactly the right level, so no cutting after, and allows water to drain away from the bottom of the post. It will fill up in wet weather, even after curing. Great vid though, thanks.

This has convinced me to use postcrete. Perfect for the job if you just want some fence posts to be held upright for about 20 years, and then relatively easy for the next person to break up the base. If you want to make it impossible for the next person to put in a new fence, or you are building something more permanent/more massive, then use proper concrete!

Great review, thank you for taking the time and effort to make it and I now know which one I prefer. Concrete, it is.👍

Great comparison and quite surprising- thanks for sharing 👍 😊

Would be interesting to see what the postcrete one looks like in a few months.

thanks for the demonstration! classic concrete is the obvious winner.

Great Video and very informative. I am a bit old school and always mix my own concrete rather than use postCrete.

Very informative. Thanks for a great video. Looks like it’s concrete for jobs where durability is crucial.

I have recently done quite a large decking area that required 50 post hole and 50 bags of postcrete 😮 l found the best method was to fill the hole with water, then the postcrete then pierce several holes in the postcrete with a metal spike,then tamper round the post until the pierced holes fill up with the mixture. Seems to have worked a treat as the whole area is solid. Not cheap but saves a lot of work if you don't own a mixer.

Hi Stuart, Could you have used buckets as molds and then taken the molds off for the testing?

Excellent comparison and very interesting too. Thanks for this.

Enjoyable watch, I know it's more expensive but I never put wooden posts in the ground as I like to do the job once so I always use a concrete spur to keep the post away from the ground. Never had a spur break on me .

Stuart that was interesting. Last time I put some posts in, they didn't have postcrete so I had to use concrete. I do feel though that you missed a step. After digging two holes, setting two posts and mixing two lots of concrete - that's got to have earned a beer.

I have worked as a merchant advising fencers, builders and retail and working with various big name suppliers for over 20 years now. This video is very well put together and informative. I especially agree with the opinion of NOT backfilling. A lot of customers these days don't want to see the concrete as they think its unsightly, however, this I believe is the main contributing factor to posts rotting caused by a soggy collar at ground level. You need to create a fall. I'm surprised that the postmix manufacturers recommend this.

Bitumen Primer as used in the flat roof industry is great for painting the part of fence posts that go underground .

Im not sure if anyone has already said this . - Postmix goes of quickly to allow you to continue the fencing job - It is more porous to allow water to escape if you put postmix under the post, the reverse is also applicable to allow water to get to dry powder - post mix is softer/brittle to allow you to break it out to replace the post. That being said I use both depending on the post, wood v concrete

Used both, never had an issue with either. The real world forces applied to the post doesn’t require really strong concrete. If ease of use and speed is your priority use postmix. If you have the time and want to save money then mix up your own concrete.

That’s an interesting comparison. I think you’re missing an important criteria for an engineer though - even if it’s weaker, is the postcrete strong enough for the job it has to do?

I liked the digging up part after you put them in the best ❤.

Went we use to do the fencing we used for one post mix bags to each hole when done six panels we would top holes up with 4 /1 mix of ballast we found works really well 👍

Experience and exasperation led me to the same conclusions years ago. Postcrete (Postmix), seems to vary in quality from bag to bag - I've opened bags that seemed to have little, if any, Aggregate and others where its the main constituent... all purchased from the same supplier. Additionally, the Aggregate seems to be composed mainly of Crushed Stone rather than the mix of Crushed Stone & Gravel you'd use in a hand mix - which has a major impact on the strength of the mix. As far as I'm concerned, it's an utterly worthless product alongside the quality of the timber used for making the Posts currently available.

That is a very interesting test for the DIY person. Try mixing the postcrete in a large bucket using a drill, then pour into the hole.

A great incite to mixing concrete..Well done on your hard work to make our decision easier!

Excellent as always, thank you Stuart 👍

Perhaps, given that putting timber into the ground anyhow will not last too long, the softer Postcrete is better for removal too ? I have broken up a few concrete post bases; maybe Postcrete is easier. 😉