Hope you all enjoy this video! Remember to like, subscribe and share! Also check out my other videos! kzfaq.info/sun/PLiycajElJ3oagkdmRzyeNPRH-85qp9cFn&si=n8njwjjUPSlLkhoV
@nothing-of5ycАй бұрын
I have a question are elemental weapons useful if the monster isn't weak or resistant to the element in monster hunter 3U?
@SwaxGuy3 күн бұрын
But it is the case with alatreon you can raw dog him all you want if your good enough with four players you can beat him before the first escaton
@TheKnightDrag0nАй бұрын
He is still the great wall in iceborne, to this very days you can still see full parties going into the alatreon fight with non elemetal weapons, and getting wiped 5 minutes after.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
I'm surprised that's still happening, surely they know by now?
@PokecraftkingАй бұрын
@HeavyWings eh, new players sometimes just go full "brain off" or ignore the npcs and don't pick up on the element until a bit later, and some people see the people running pure raw sets for speed runs and think "I'll do that too!"
@z-uwu4687Ай бұрын
@@HeavyWings yea he’s right been doing hard carries for AT velk fatilis and Alatreon and new hunters keep making the same mistakes 😂 they learn but it’s funny so many people making the same mistakes as launch Honestly it’s nice seeing more people experience him
@pizzahunter69Ай бұрын
I think they changed that. You don't need to beat him to progress to Fatalis. Or was that not what you meant with him being a wall?
@z-uwu4687Ай бұрын
@@pizzahunter69 you don’t but you still need to watch the cutscene from entering the fight to get the quest for the weak version then slay that one
@1000TomatoesАй бұрын
I'm a pretty casual player, so I didn't know elemental damage was bad in world and used them because it just feels better to use your knowledge of the monster to prepare a specific weapon to fight it with. In that vein I think elements being bad seems like bad design.
@davidvelez9124Ай бұрын
I absolutely agree, as a veteran for most of the franchise i that bringing proper elements with a elemental build regardless of weapon should be the most effective way to fight instead of just making a crit build and calling it a day
@zacharyhansen8250Ай бұрын
I wish element damage was just a boost on top of raw damage that you could build for optionally if you want to absolutely max out your damage.
@william_sunАй бұрын
Elemental damage isn't actually bad in Iceborne. In fact, the strongest elemental weapons are stronger than the strongest non-elemental weapons for more than half of the game's weapon types. The problem isn't that elemental damage is bad; it's that elemental damage isn't good enough to make elemental weapons worth farming for for the average player. For most of the weapon types where elemental weapons are stronger than non-elemental weapons, the difference is only on the order of 10%, and for most players, the difference between completing a hunt in 20 minutes and completing a hunt in 22 minutes simply doesn't matter.
@TwoPumpChumperАй бұрын
@@william_sunare you calling fatalis an elemental weapon because it has dragon element?
@william_sunАй бұрын
@@TwoPumpChumper No, Fatalis weapons are typically considered to be raw weapons in builds because their Dragon elemental damage is relatively weak compared to "real" elemental weapons. However, I was probably confusing the meta at various points of the game's lifecycle when I made the "more than half" statement because of how long ago this was, and it's actually only about a third of the weapon types at post-Fatalis endgame. Specifically, in post-Fatalis Iceborne, Dual Blades, Bow, Hunting Horn, and Charge Blade are considered to be elemental weapon types where matching the monster's elemental weakness is often going to out-perform the Fatalis weapon. In earlier metagames (post-Kjarr World through post-Alatreon Iceborne) elemental weapons went in and out of the meta for most other weapon types. Additionally, Light Bowgun has multiple different playstyles based on your preferred ammo types, and elemental ammo types have been in the meta for the majority of the game's lifespan. (The only reason why elemental ammo is not viable for Heavy Bowgun is because you run out of ammo too quickly and can't carry enough ammo and crafting materials at once to finish late-game hunts without restocking.)
@DaisZXАй бұрын
The invisible modifier was the part that angered me most. At least at the time of release. I used charge blade and build specifically for big elemental SAED damage. a week later I found out that the SAED attack specifically was crippled against Alatreon. I adapted and used other attacks and can now easily solo the first elemental break for a whole party. It was how the in-game damage was deceitful and I could never get complete information from the game itself that soured me to the experience. Had I not seen the data online, "I need to do more damage" would have been inflated to absurd levels using what I believed to be my best elemental attack. Call it deceitful, call it counterintuitive, call it artificial difficulty. Something here is wrong and goes against the grain.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
0.1x modifier go BRRRRRRRRRR No honestly I kind of laughed when I saw that, like wowww they really did not want actually good elemental weapons to dominate there, huh?
@johan9428Ай бұрын
CB has one of the lowest elemental damage requirements to depower EJ (you need to do 638 elemental damage for the first depower). While elemental phials have a 0.1 multiplier, all the other attacks of CB have a 1 multiplier (only GS and GL have a more generous multiplier, 1.1), including the additional hits from savage axe (which are physical hits, not phial related). Thus, it is stupidly easy to depower EJ with CB when playing savage axe. The one thing which still bothers me is the fact that Alatreon has bad elemzones (22 of ice/fire weakness at most in fire/ice active) and good hitzones, meaning that you are forced to lower your overall damage just for the sake of passing EJ. For CB, the best CB to use to pass EJ and do maximum damage is Frostfang CB (thanks to its impact phials, purple sharpness and the possibility to put two attack augments on the top of health augment) with a raw focused set, not the Kjarr Ice CB.
@MenrvaSАй бұрын
To be fair, SAED has special elemental modifier of 9 instead of 1. Meaning, if they didn't put a 0.1 hidden modifier in there, there would be even more outrage because the meta would shifted heavily to elemental CB. Without that, CB can easily topple Alatreon with one SAED in solo and that is not good for everyone else. Yeah... doesn't excuse the fact that the modifier was hidden though.
@tratamarack441Ай бұрын
Yeah, i also hate that elemental SAED got done dirty like that, especially when most endgame content favors savage axe more.
@zhenfeng1991Ай бұрын
UP and down swing damage is crazy but yea kinda boring
@Bones_MaIoneАй бұрын
Honestly, the main thing I dislike about Escaton is that it has become engrained into Alatreon himself. When people think of Alatreon, they don't think of the well telegraphed moves, the super satisfying hitboxes or his outstanding design. They think of Escaton. I really wish Escaton didn't exist, because wether it's good or not, the controversy around it dominates Alatreon discussion. And it really should not.
@cchieffkiefbeffАй бұрын
Also puts a major dent in alatreon ever returning, hell be met with boos and hate right from the get go because everyone will expect escaton, even if he doesnt have it in a later installment. Also yeah, rvetone just thinks of escaton nowadays when talking about alatreon, and frankly i think its because the game makes you focus on it so much; its this looming thing that you always know that if you dont care enough about it then it will just cart you instantly, youre basically conditioned to not care about anything that isnt escaton, attacks are just attacks now, a wall that gets in your way of stopping escaton, not the amazing choreographed and visualized actions they actually are; really, everything you have to prepare for is escaton related, its all about escaton Thats my major gripe about iceborne alatreon, basically everything revolves around escaton judgement and whether or not it will kill you, him changing elements isnt a sign of a new and dangerous moveset coming, it just means that now you cant stop escaton effectively anymore, the changing of elements is now something you explicitly want to see as little of as possible Whether or not escaton is good or not, one thing is for certain: in the eyes of the people, alatreon was certainly better off without it, as it has undoubtedly forever smeared his name, went from badass avatar black dragon to that guy with the dps check with mixed receptions
@robodragon126Ай бұрын
Of course the thing that sets it apart is what people remember, they don't talk about the other things because plenty of other monsters share those same aspects
@hughmongus6959Ай бұрын
Satisfying hitboxes? Lol, his horn attacks will deal full damage to you while you're clutched onto his tail, I died to that once. "Alatreon hitboxes" is a running joke in my friend group because of his numerous full-body attacks designed to punish clutch claw
@thechugg4372Ай бұрын
@@hughmongus6959 The thing with alatreon is, I'm pretty sure this is the one boss where different people worked on different attacks, the thunder hitboxes are pixel perfect, something that you almost never see in MH, meanwhile the ice hitboxes are like going back to freedom unite level of hitboxes
@elfmonster1476Ай бұрын
@@cchieffkiefbeff I don't think it really threatens his odds of returning, since he just won 10th place in the official monster popularity rankings. Even after the Escaton Judgement controversy, he remains more popular than the likes of Mizutsune.
@aidans8493Ай бұрын
Frostfang releasing after Alatreon is still a really weird decision to me
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
It's one of those things where both monsters are added together but the quest for Frostfang was released a month later. Staggered releases like that can get people to keep playing.
@lilfuzzballaАй бұрын
@@HeavyWings yeah but Frostfang didnt feel tough at all. Feels like Frostfang should have been added in the very first update along with Rajang.
@Willzb-xk4ewАй бұрын
What's frostfang?
@lilfuzzballaАй бұрын
@@Willzb-xk4ew It's Frostfang Barrioth.
@Willzb-xk4ewАй бұрын
@@lilfuzzballa ah don't think I've fought that one yet
@DragonHybrydАй бұрын
Honestly I imagine it would also be less hated in general if shattering the horns both times would also just mean Alatreon couldn't Escaton Judgment and even extended the time before EJ goes off from the 6-ish minute timer to say 12 or 15 after a single horn break, and that could be balanced out by making it significantly easier for ele weapons and harsher ( but not just straight up death) for raw given the "can only break during dragon element mode". hell go for spectacle, do "too much" elemental damage and a horn explodes instead, still stopping EJ. That would also of ment a huge mental relief for both parties with elemental weapon users having that relief significantly sooner. I've been playing more again recently and did a three man and even though being lance I had full access to the head for 12 minutes straight doing between 200- 400 dmg to the head regularly it gets nerve-racking when you KNOW you've passed the break threshold ( 3,697.5 dmg if kiracino is right) and the horns haven't broken the second time after the 1st feels like it breaks the instant Alatreon goes dragon element mode. the other two I played with weren't slouches either and were playing with the right element. I use to play a ton of MMO's and personally have always HATED dps checks (Especially if the fight already has a timer to begin with) since for those it could be (and usually is) an equipment issue and not a skill one (and as mentioned in video it was far too easy to reach Alatreon so very likely equipment issue). while I was one of the people who took full advantage of guiding lands I also played with people who either didn't or couldn't due to time issues (job/ had to restart from the beginning due to save file issue so lost a ton of deco progress) and it really showed how rough EJ is to deal with when it's just 1 person who's prepared. I ended up figuring out how to make a set that could deal with BOTH judgments zero horn breaks (or "best" possibly worse case scenario 1 break) and even though it still works, even with multiplayer scaling, it's ridiculous/ nerve-racking being the only person who can manage worse case but possible to survive scenario. to shorten this up, if Capcom hadn't made the dps check a small secret timer with multiple secret multipliers possibly per weapon that, in essence, one shot and instead a check that you could counter with in multiple ways that didn't one shot with mild preparation (health booster+ and mega/ two mega potions and your good to go like after 1 shut down) he'd absolutely not be as hated. I personally love the fight, I just LOTHE Escaton Judgment specifically for how poorly thought out it is.
@DiaSynapsidАй бұрын
I could see Escaton still using its current design if breaking both horns fully disabled it. At the start, you would have to worry about a lot of things, but once you manage to reach that threshold, you just cracked the case. Now, when swapping, it would just be like how it went from x to dragon. A good reward for keeping the flow. Hell I could imagine that in a hunt: one horn, already taken care of. The party gets the topple again. But Alatreon is tricky. The party fails to break the horn before Escaton, and Alatreon swaps elements. Fast forward, Alatreon is back in dragon state, and it is down to the wire. The difference between continuing the hunt or failing. Whether Escaton kills them, or the hunters earn the right to potentially slay it. Alatreon's clock counts down, but BAM! Someone breaks the second horn. The party sighs in relief. No longer will they have to worry about topples, or horn breaks. But the fight isn't over yet, for the Blazing Black Dragon still lurks. Fight Monster Hunters, for everlasting peace!
@fadingghost9723Ай бұрын
I wish they would disable moves depending on what parts you break more often in Monster Hunter. The first one that comes to mind for me is Velkhana's tail stabs. It doesn't matter if you cut off the tail, it still does them which feels really odd.
@dessert711Ай бұрын
@@fadingghost9723 It would be neat if the ice armor mode had the full tail stabs still but the broken armor mode had the shortened stab, because most of the tail spear is made of ice armor anyway. But yeah, I wish there were more responses to broken parts. You cut off an Uragaan or Radobaan tail and they trip during their rolls, and you break the Barioth wings to have it skid when it jumps... Then you break both of the wings of an Azure Rathalos and it just flies up and spits fire like normal. Wing breaks in particular seem rather useless really.
@hasten443526 күн бұрын
I think its actually impossible to break alatreon’s horn in his first phase as in the game won’t let you
@DragonHybryd26 күн бұрын
@hasten4435 That's why I specified dragon mode
@carterlazarus813Ай бұрын
I think there is one valid complaint regarding being forced to play a certain way, you aren't allowed to play safe. Having to get an elemental weapon and element set is extremely annoying; but if you're good enough, more basic elemental weapons can be effective. But some people play more defensive playstyles, they don’t mind taking 40 minutes on a quest in exchange for not getting hit as often. While slower, this playstyle can be just as effective. That's why I think it's bad taste that basically all of Iceborne's endgame requires faster, offensive playstyles. You don't need to be a speedrunner; but Safi, Fatalis, Alareon and especially Kulve Taroth cannot be played safe if you want to win. To be clear, I'm pretty happy with how Alatreon and Fatalis taught me how to be a faster hunter, it saves a lot of time in all quests across World and Rise. I get the feeling a lot of formerly defensive players like myself feel the same. BUT there are people who've beaten Alatreon/Fatalis and still feel burned by needing to speed up, and I think that’s valid. Being forced to change playstyles isn't so much an issue of weapon element, it's that people were literally forced to change HOW they play the game
@londorsblade7241Ай бұрын
I understand the thought process here, but I have to disagree with some points. I think aggressiveness is too often conflated with recklessness in monster hunter. Many hunters build and play aggressively in end game hunts, not from a desire to speedrun, but because they understand that the monster can’t attack you if it’s dead or incapacitated. I would argue that playing aggressively and killing a monster in 20 minutes is significantly safer than playing defensively and killing a monster in 40 minutes. That’s an extra 20 minutes you have to stay alive, which I believe offsets the perceived safety of defensive play. Additionally, passive play also means less topples, stuns, and statuses inflicted. I find that a lot of newer players end up surviving more when they start playing more aggressively. This is because they are interacting with the monster more frequently in putting themselves in situations where they can be damaged. As a result, they learn movesets and openings much faster, and are able to safely capitalize on them more consistently. I think capcom knew this going into Alatreon’s release, and used Alatreon as a stepping stool to “train” players for Fatalis, who also requires higher DPS. Fatalis was obviously going to be the capstone and hardest fight in the game, so the 30 minute timer made sense. However, I do think Capcom did a disservice to players by nerfing the hell out of the Alatreon side quest that unlocks Fatalis. Just my two cents.
@carterlazarus813Ай бұрын
@@londorsblade7241 I never conflated aggressiveness with recklessness? If I did, I probably wouldn't like the playstyle or find it very effective. Right now I can go out and kill any monster in ~10 minutes, often without getting hit. increase to ~15 for elders, including Alatreon, Fatalis, Primordial, etc. It's effective when you know a hunt but I certainly wouldn't call it riskless. Playing less passive can get more topples and shorter enrage states; but that itself is meant to be the reward for good offense. Alatreon and Fatalis have their own topples and rewards for good play, so adding a timer on top of that is unnecessary. There are already things to encourage a more rapid DPS which allows natural building of a hunters skills and speed, so what's the point of making unnatural additions to fights to force this speed instead of the ways most hunts already seamlessly encourage it? There are also still benefits to playing slower. Your first few hunts of a monster should be slower so you can learn the fight without putting yourself in as many risky situations, plus a slower hunt can give a player time to target parts more directly for part breaks, something you flat-out cannot do with Alatreon if you want to hit your element check and break the head because its other parts are so far away from these important areas and you have such limited time. I have killed over 100 Alatreon. I have seen the tail come off 4 times. Wings broken a couple dozen times. If you could slow down a couple minutes to target those parts better like you can with nearly every other monster, there'd be no issue. Using Alatreon's DPS check as a stepping stone to Fatalis's short timer just calls into question again why Fatalis needed such a short timer when it already has the most health, highest DPS and overall hardest fight of any monster in the entire game. Alatreon is literally my favorite hunt in the entire series. But there will always be arguments for a slow playstyle; and when there's nothing wrong with slower play in any other hunt, forcing everyone to play at a similar pace with no warning takes control away from the player in regards I find more egregious than forcing certain weapon attributes (especially when you can beat Alatreon without element if you're good enough, I've done it solo once just to see if I could and I'm by no means a speedrunner).
@cheesy_potato9243Ай бұрын
I think it could be argued that alatreon making you have a more aggressive playstyle is a preparation for fatalis with his short quest timer+his enormous hp but I don’t like getting too into these arguments Those are just my thoughts
@londorsblade7241Ай бұрын
I didn’t say YOU conflated it, I just said IT gets conflated. Several of the points you made here are good, such as Fatalis and Alatreon having their own mechanics that reward good play. Taking advantage of those mechanics does require more aggressive play, though. The built in timer for fatalis and hidden timer for escaton judgement help encourage more aggressive play, which I believe was a strong design choice as players were rewarded for going out of their comfort zones. Personally, I appreciate it when developers challenge players by creating challenging and unique experiences. They often times receive negative feedback at first, but age incredibly well. Needing to bring elemental weapons encouraged players to go back and hunt monsters they hadn’t fought in ages and grind out new armor sets, try new weapons. Killing alatreon and fatalis brought such a sense of accomplishment, and still continues to do so as they remain incredibly popular monsters to hunt even today. To your point about hunting monsters slowly at first: I think this is very valid. I personally hunt more aggressively to start, as I believe I learn windows and openings faster by pushing the limits. However, I imagine most players do play slower until they are used to a monster. The point of my post wasn’t to pick an argument with you, it was just a great prompt for me to share my thought on slower, defensive play being riskier than calculated, aggressively play due to providing the monster more opportunities to kill you. I imagine that this doesn’t apply to a seasoned hunter like yourself, but I do see it so often with newer hunters. Their passiveness ends up getting them killed after 20-30 minutes into a hunt, they get frustrated by what they perceive as wasted time, and they quit playing. In a weird and probably cynical way, Escaton is a mercy for players who would have lost anyway, carting them early and saying “hey, you’re not ready for this yet”, instead of wiping after 30 minutes and causing even more frustration. I appreciate the dialogue though, man!
@aizero-ih3uyАй бұрын
as someone who played defensively, i felt this, my thought process was "oh, this monster did this thing, so i gonna put this resistance to resist it" on the whole game up until the big 4, i legit didn't put much offensive deco the whole time i played the game, so when i'm at alatreon, i was at loss on what to do, although i eventually beat the big 4 with the help of sos, i still didn't felt accomplished until i can solo them, but those defensive playstyle has become my safety blanket that's really hard to let go, now taking a break because of it, and considering starting a new game to learn from scratch, but try to be on offensive this time
@FlyingScottАй бұрын
What I dislike so heavily about fights like Alatreon or the other Sieges is how stating your dislike for them is always met with "hurdur ur just bad". No. Sieges and Alatreon (Fatalis to a lesser extent, he really just seems to be "hit hard, life good") don't follow the patterns thus established by the games. People still dislike Lunastra (mainly) for introducing a two-hit instakill combo and a DPS check in her first assignment when she was introduced to World. Sieges and Alatreon took these ideas, so far foreign to World newcomers and veterans alike, and ran with them for the worse. The game taught us XYZ. People can rightly be taken aback when after countless hours and 20 years of XYZ, there's this sudden moment where we have to perform ABC. You don't scold someone for teaching them how to ride a bike, and after a while of no deviation with your lessons you give them stilts with roller blades on the foot end and they don't perform well.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
It's just a lazy way to dismiss legitimate gripes, and people love saying it because it gives them an ego boost. People get mad at me for emphasising how easy World is whenever I criticise the game, but I pretty much only do it to get ahead of people saying "You only have problems because you're bad". It doesn't stop them unfortunately.
@robodragon126Ай бұрын
The siege fights and the black dragons probably break this formula people cling to because that's the point, they're considered as monsters stronger then regular elder dragons, you're playing by their rules in their game and these hunts are meant to replicate that
@kDallas_Ай бұрын
Thats the point
@raisp6073Ай бұрын
Alatreon gives some people such inflated egos and I do not know why. It has a bs dps check that’s poorly communicated to you tied to a guaranteed kill. Even if you meet the check the attack comes anyway.
@The_Mewster69Ай бұрын
@@raisp6073Honestly the fact that he could still pull off an Escaton Judgement even if you managed to meet the DPS check rubbed me the wrong way. Would have been a much more satisfying reward to just cancel it out. I still think the biggest crime is that breaking both of his horns doesn’t stop him from switching elements and he can still get a fully powered judgement because of it.
@tTasericАй бұрын
The Afflicted monsters DPS check was also fairly forgiving in its own way because of bloodblight. It rewards aggression and discourages passivity.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
That's very true, It was a cool mechanic!
@ricardorunos9782Ай бұрын
And unlike Escaton, the burst attack is not an instakill. So the price of failure is not as steep.
@The_Mewster69Ай бұрын
@@ricardorunos9782Not to mention, you could also stop the burst if you met the dps check unlike Alatreon with its Escaton judgement.
@jacobmaitland3613Ай бұрын
Also you can avoid it with good it with good reaction timing
@HeckYep7 күн бұрын
@@jacobmaitland3613 Yeah if you start walking away when the animation starts and then walk back in and do a little counter-clockwise loop to dodge the projectile you don't even need to sprint to dodge it. I'm a hammer main and wouldn't even stop charging for it.
@howardxu8050Ай бұрын
Another issue I had with alatron: Gunlance shelling effectively does no progress to his element damage progress, despite it having the best modifier for element, effectively it means that you have to play as a worse lance, and it’s element damage is already pretty bad to start of with
@azzyglАй бұрын
Pokeshell raw gunlance can meet the elem check with fire damage from shelling
@azzyglАй бұрын
@@hectorcolman5948 This is straight up false, because all shelling does a small amount of fire damage.
@azzyglАй бұрын
@@hectorcolman5948 Have you ever bothered to look up weapon motion values?
@hectorcolman5948Ай бұрын
@@azzygl Now I just read them and found it's true, it deals a small amount of fire damage. I've been living a lie 9 years. Sorry.
@azzyglАй бұрын
@@hectorcolman5948 this is why proper self-research is important ladies and gentlemen
@docdragon079622 күн бұрын
I remember reading " i play for hunting a large animal not a God" that stuck with me for a while with alatreon
@e69alpha9 күн бұрын
I think that statement loses weight when you remember in each game you eventually kill God level monsters who are op even without a party wipe
@karndrogo8 күн бұрын
All the elder dragons are essentially forces of nature lore wise, so that doesn’t really hold all the wah
@e69alpha8 күн бұрын
@@karndrogo right? An akantor is a walking volcano who's tail you can cut off
@BtecINKАй бұрын
In regards to the hazard risen elders in Rise, I love how they feel completely optional. It felt like Alatreon in Iceborne was necessary to beat to experience the full game, since it's the only way to fight that specific monster. In sunbreak the endgame challenge was simply buffed up versions of monsters I've already fought
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Yeah Alatreon and Fatalis feel as necessary as Amatsu and Primordial imo, they finish off the games story so you do feel compelled to beat them.
@vivil253322 күн бұрын
@@HeavyWings the hazard risen elders are clearly Post game content. Made for people who beat the game, but want more content. Post game content is good especially for a game like monster hunter. Iceborne is in a weird place because Alatreon and Fatalis are not presnted as Post game content, but things like Silver Rathalos, and Brute Tigrex are.
@chrishandsome701215 күн бұрын
I do not like any mechanic that forceably bottlenecks players into specific builds regardless of their overall stats and build they personally had set up, and this is no exception in my opinion
@MusTheFan11 күн бұрын
How does playing with a different build affect you at all? It doesn't change how the weapon plays very much, you just treat the game as a chore and decided to not have fun creating new weapons and armour for a specific monster
@senounatsuru645311 күн бұрын
@@MusTheFan If it encouraged a different build, that is one thing. This forces a build unless you're solo. That is the unacceptable part.
@MusTheFan11 күн бұрын
@@senounatsuru6453 who cares bro? "Oooh my bonking stick looks different this is such a huge change!! How dare they make me suffer through this!!!!!"
@senounatsuru645310 күн бұрын
@@MusTheFan You're being disingenuous. Monster Hunter World heavily enforced a Raw meta and disincentivized elemental builds. When they forced people to use the overall worse elemental builds (unless extremely specialized) without explaining the fight other than "Use elemental weapons!" that made people upset. Quit with the appeal to triviality shit.
@MusTheFan10 күн бұрын
@@senounatsuru6453 only if you quit it with the fallacy fallacy shit. Making builds to suit monsters is a significant part of the game, and if you don't engage with it I'm afraid you don't belong in society at large
@TidlefireАй бұрын
I really hate how there's no way to avoid Escaton. Unless you kill Alatreon before outright before can use it you WILL take damage, and that just feels bad in a series where proper positioning and moveset knowledge lets you avoid everything.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Afaik he's the only boss in the series where a no-damage run is impossible, but I might be mistaken.
@xxNightxTrainxxАй бұрын
@HeavyWings isn't it possible to slay them before they use Escaton? If you're extremely good at least
@serenity3157Ай бұрын
@@xxNightxTrainxx Saw some party with no element just using pierce HBG in less than 2mins before
@johan9428Ай бұрын
That's a bit unfair to hang this on Alatreon when it is Lunastra who introduced the unavoidable (for blademaster) heat damages with her nova in MHW. Before that, we had Teostra and Lunastra in MHFU with their flame aura, which eated your health very fast when in close range, unless you disabled it by hitting their head repeatedly of if you used Kushala Daora armor.
@darthvaderreviews6926Ай бұрын
Yeah, I prefer Fatalis where the breath attack enhancement is _essentially_ a fail state for most average players, but you have some leeway to break the head partway into Phase 3, or can theoretically ignore it by perpetually avoiding his fire.
@FumetsuGetsuАй бұрын
I'm at 29:30 into the video, and I want to add on to your point of how fun it is to learn the fight. When enraged, Alatreon can do three lines of lightning strikes. While learning the fight with LS I realized a cool combo: You can foresight slash the first strike, cancel into a special sheathe to dodge the second strike, and then Iai Spirit Slash the third one. Learning this, and then pulling it off consistently, has made Alatreon a top 5 fight for me. Learning how your weapon's moveset can interact with a boss' moveset like that, is what keeps me playing. Great video by the way. 🖤
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Woah I kind of want to try that now lol
@jeresomthimh8111Ай бұрын
I hunted 4 alatreons, that was enough for the full armor set and a fully leveled GS, not fighting it anymore
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
*Anakin voice* Because of Escaton?
@jeresomthimh8111Ай бұрын
@@HeavyWingsYes, I don't even find him that hard, it's just that dps check that ruins the entire fight for me personally
@deinonychus1948Ай бұрын
@@jeresomthimh8111 personally, I just consider it part of the flow now; with a good elemental build and proper positioning to break the horns (which most players will want to do anyway purely for the sake of damage) the whole Escaton Judgement mechanic is simply a small hurdle you overcome without even noticing Yes, it was really hard to overcome it at first (2-3 days for me when it launched) but as someone who has beaten Alatreon many times with different weapons and different playthroughs; I hardly even worry about Escaton Judgement anymore and that's not even the main issue, EJ isn't the true reason why millions of players failed the quest in his initial debut; the reason, as some of the devs have admitted, was the lack of proper communication regarding how the elemental DPS check worked and how certain parts of it were implemented If it ruins the fight for you, I'm not hear to judge; but personally, EJ hardly even bothers me anymore lol
@mariofan1ish21 күн бұрын
@@deinonychus1948Also remember though that you're talking to a Greatsword player. As a GS main myself I feel qualified to say that one of the biggest draws if the weapon is getting the fattest damage numbers possible, and forcing yourself to make an entirely other set specifically designed to emphasize the not-big numbers of your weapon runs directly in contrast to one of the biggest parts of the weapon's identity.
@truecaliber199515 күн бұрын
@@HeavyWings _Because of what it's done, what it plans to do!_ 😂
@sacred944Ай бұрын
I surprised the stupid element cap wasn't mentioned when talking about element sucking so bad. That's one of the biggest reasons it sucks in World. Even if it had the ammount of skills as raw does to buff it, without wearing a specific armor set (Safi's armor skill raises the cap) you'd hit the cap relatively soon and no longer get any value. Raw damage has no such cap besides any HARD damage number in the damage like a 9999 rpg number
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
I'll be honest, the element cap slipped my mind, but it's still a very valid point!
@magb8632Ай бұрын
Raw damage has a cap tho, should watch team darksides video on the highest attack damage in mhwi
@sacred944Ай бұрын
@@magb8632 that's the hard damage limit cap not a raw damage cap Also it's MUCH higher than the element cap to the point it's just not realistic to hit. Any weapon can hit the element cap and very easily
@magb8632Ай бұрын
@@sacred944 oh sry i confused both then
@deinonychus1948Ай бұрын
@@sacred944 that's one major thing Sunbreak got right, I remember fighting MR Diablos with an Aurora Somnacanth CB and being shocked by the 350 or so damage dealt by the SAED's elemental phials! granted, I think Sunbreak went a little too far with the elemental superiority but I'd prefer several purely elemental builds than 2-3 near identical raw builds like in World/Iceborne!
@1QUOTE1Ай бұрын
What I hate the most about Eschaton isnt the damage check, or the elemental requirement, its the fact its completely unavoidable damage, regardless if you pass the check or not. The whole entire game you're taught to avoid attacks to survive and that heals are there to patch up mistakes, and I can usually gauge my improvement by how many heals I have left after a hunt...so why did they think putting in an unavoidable nova that you eat a snack to survive was a good idea? I beat Alatreon first try and don't really struggle with him, but it still feels bad having done literally everything right and still take lethal damage that I can only circumvent by healing like its an MMO. EJ hurting you despite succeeding just goes against basic player psychology, which is insane because it's stapled to a monster with easily the cleanest hitboxes and most fair AOE in the entire game. A great fight held down by a mechanic thats feels almost designed to be hated.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
I can't stress enough that most of my deaths in the early attempts were from the suppressed version of Escaton. So annoying lol!
@mariofan1ish21 күн бұрын
You know, when you describe it as "a supernova you can only survive by eating a snack" who tf came up with this design choice 😂
@WH40KHero13 күн бұрын
In my opinion there are two types of Superattacks. The first type is well telegraphed, keeps you on your toes all the time its being executed, requires skillfull play or knowledge to avoid and only then oneshots you if you fail in one or more of these outlined categories. The second type is binary: Perform a specific action and you're golden, and if you're not you're dead The first type is imho superior to the second type, because it rewards skillfull play and preparation, while the other time does neither. The second type also doesn't foster skill growth as you can only do it entirely right or completely wrong, no inbetween. WorldBorne Alatreon has the second type of Superattack. Monsters like 4U Gogmazios or GU Amatsu have the first type of Superattack.
@wits_end.13 күн бұрын
And you can't even superman dive to it iirc. It's very not monster hunter at all!
@MusTheFan11 күн бұрын
So the biggest problem with him is that you're insecure? You need to see lots of potions remaining to feel good about yourself?
@drxavier1870Ай бұрын
The greatest part of the Alatreon Comtroversy is that the Devs never nerfed Alatreon, rather they force you to fight an extremely weak Alatreon before fighting the one thing harder than Alatreon, Fatalis I genuinely think the Alatreon in Dawn's Triumph was a prank from the Devs, as the Alatreon in that quest has less HP than a Master Rank Great Jagras
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Like I said in the video, they seemed to know not enough people beat Alatreon and wanted Fatalis to be easily available.
@leonfrancis341826 күн бұрын
@@drxavier1870 It was definitely a laugh on all the people begging for nerfs. As a matter of fact, when the Fatalis patch launched, there were Reddit posts asking if Alatreon had been nerfed that needed to be megathreaded and responded to by a mod.
@mariofan1ish21 күн бұрын
If it was a joke from the devs, I personally find that very petty. Serious, widespread criticism shouldn't be met with jokes saying "There! Is that what you all wanted LOL".
@drxavier187021 күн бұрын
@@mariofan1ish They said multiple times that you needed Elemental Weapons. They buffed Element damage values for every single weapon category. What did everyone do? Bring there Raging Brach + Teostra mixed sets they copied off KZfaq because they think Blast is an Element or something
@mariofan1ish20 күн бұрын
@@drxavier1870 And what does that have to do with responding to an extremely controversial monster by throwing a joke version before Fatalis? My point isn't about clarity, it's that if it really was a joke, that's kind of an asshole move.
@SmashtisticАй бұрын
Until this video I didn't even know there were elemental modifiers for the weapons.
@GandalfsodaАй бұрын
Good video! I will throw my hat into the ring for this discussion. I've always loved alatreon, i've even speedran his fight in iceborne. I think a lot of the problem is how capcom themselves didn't explain the mechanic well enough. How the weapons can realistically hit the check at the same threshold with their own modifiers for elemental damage as well as how vague the ingame notes is about Dragon element specifically, which is utterly useless in fire/ice mode. As well as telling people to run separate elements to cover the check-- which is TERRIBLE advice, as the check is scaled based around the amount of players. If you're fighting fire alatreon, you all want to run ice/water weapons. Any fire to potentially cover his shift to ice mode is only weighing you down. Overall i think if they explained the mechanic more thoroughly than "you have to use elemental weapons!" people would be less peeved. But then again, people probably would've skipped through that text anyways and still complained.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Still baffled as to why the devs suggested covering all elements, it's like they forgot the horns stopped him from switching.
@GandalfsodaАй бұрын
@@HeavyWings maybe they'd expect people to go through both horn switches but... idk i feel even a group of two would kill him before that!
@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS16 күн бұрын
It's just stupid and gimmicky... what exactly is the value of having this type of design, period? If they want people to make and use different sets or weapons, this isn't how you got about it. Not even close. I'd love to have a different set for every monster. It'd give me something to build long-term in the game, but in the end it's a bad idea because damage skills are tied to armor, and damage skills are ultimately the best thing against every monster, so you mostly make one armor set and use that forever. They're too scared to take the damage skills off of armor and maybe put them somewhere else, and so nothing will change. The gimmicky dps check/speedrun-focused monsters are just a half measure, not at all real set diversity.
@cerberus640012 күн бұрын
It's a stupid gimmicky fight that feels as though it breaks the mold of how the rest of the game lets you play. Being told to go element when I've been playing the whole game as a raw greatsworder feels awful, I don't get to play my way, I have to fuck off and make some shitty element build because Alatreon says so.
@yeetleskeelte3460Ай бұрын
And I'll STILL see people run Raging Brachy weapons on this guy nowadays
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Blast is an element, right?
@yeetleskeelte3460Ай бұрын
Schrodinger's Element
@buzzysoda8933Ай бұрын
He was probably the only wall that I actually had to rebuild all my set and learned what to put on my armor (rather than mindlessly copy from "BEST BUILD FOR MHW:IB"). I actually had fun with him. Do I find him annoying? Nah, he was hella fair. He had a fuck ton of window of opportunities that you can punish him for. Do I find the judgement bullshit? I did, but thru many trial and errors, I actually find it quite fitting for him.
@TyDefender11 күн бұрын
As someone who always farmed elemental weapons due to Pokemon brain, I never really knew this was an issue 😂
@rosegod444Ай бұрын
Even with Escaton Judgement I still love this fight, made me think about what’s best to bring as opposed to just brute forcing a fight which I felt World and IB did a lot
@genogamma1326 күн бұрын
Basically in the metaphor of carrots and sticks, Capcom decided to use a gigantic redwood of a stick to club players into using elements with a giant deadly fatalis shaped carrot.
@wafflinxes5224Ай бұрын
The main gripe is that, with every other monster, now matter how much you take damage, eventually you will be able to kill it, Alatreon breaks that rule. He's an mmo boss, not a rpg boss
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Yeah it's definitely very different, easy to see why people struggled with him.
@DaShikuXIАй бұрын
I mean that is objectively false because you have both a timer and limited lives to stop exactly that. Alatreon is no different from any other fight in the game in that regard.
@joshmerchant8737Ай бұрын
@@DaShikuXI iceborne alatreon *undeniably* takes multiple notes from behemoth, who is LITERALLY an mmo boss brought in from an mmo game (Final Fantasy XIV). youre statement is "objectively false". safi and kulve are in the same boat, mmo bosses in a non mmo game. whether its bad or good is debatable.
@leonfrancis341826 күн бұрын
@@wafflinxes5224 This is easily disproven. Go start a hunt with Rajang. Get hit until the timer runs out. Tell me if you eventually won that fight. There is a timer, a win condition, and a monster one hunts to achieve that win condition.
@MusTheFan11 күн бұрын
Sucks to suck
@HuntereenoАй бұрын
I really think the lack of information hurt his reception. I don't mean the fact that you need to use elemental weapons, the game already gives you like 4 popups and constant NPC dialogue telling you to. I mean, the game doesn't tell you about the elemental damage cap, neither what the limit is or that it exists at all. It doesn't tell you the elemental hitzones. It doesn't tell you the damage modifiers for each weapon type. The whole limited horn break/ killing him before the 4th escaton thing can be avoided if you still mostly build for raw but with a little bit of extra element, but that's not the impression people were given. Element sucked in World, but not for Alatreon, and for some reason they hid that fact. I think they kinda shot themselves in the foot with that a bit.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
The video was largely already written and I didn't want to extend it to be over an hour, but I found out that in the Alatreon developer diary, the developers suggested that a squad of players could bring different elements to "cover all weaknesses" That is - objectively - terrible advice! It's actually counterproductive and I can't believe they suggested that! So yeah people were REALLY unprepared!
@DiaSynapsidАй бұрын
@@HeavyWings With how Alatreon is designed, it feels like they didn't playtest him enough. I feel like if you could still do elemental damage in the wrong mode, the statement would've held weight. In a solo hunt, you would only do it if you were crazy good, but it would be an option. It would be difficult to pull off, but with how the thresholds are, not impossible. It could've be practical, or at the very least interesting to have a 2-2 split in fire and ice. But with how he is now, doing having even one guy do no elemental damage in a non Dragon mode is essentially just a free Escaton fail. I get bringing the right element for the right mode, but the all or nothing philosophy just seems so misguided and impulsive on the dev's part.
@DaShikuXIАй бұрын
You literally have a book in game that tells you the hitzones of monsters. Also element sucked in World, but not in Iceborne. Element was strong from day 1 of Iceborne, not just for the Alatreon fight, and that was common knowledge at the time. The only thing that is poorly communicated is the element cap, but even that is something you can visibly see when you're building your set.
@HuntereenoАй бұрын
@@DaShikuXI He covers that first point in the video. The Hunter's Journal gives you physical hitzones but not the elemental ones (and the physical ones are kinda vague at that since they just use a star rating instead of actual numbers)
@BenHowe901Ай бұрын
I would argue that one of the biggest issues with Escaton that wasn't covered here is that dealing with it is wildly weapon dependent. Saying that the DPS check is easy to beat while showing footage of you playing longsword kinda defeats your point. Longsword's standard playstyle is also its highest element playstyle, so you can just... play the weapon as long as you're using an elemental option. The modifiers also did help the heavier weapons, but claiming they made it equally easy for all weapon types is untrue. Hammer and lance both have a modifier of 1, but lance hits vastly more often and has a far easier time meeting the DPS check. Switch axe and dual blades also have the same modifier of 0.6 - despite hitting with vastly different frequencies. Greatsword has a modifier of 1.1, meaning it should be hitting slightly less than twice as often as dual blades. Anyone who's played those weapons can tell you that's not the case. And that's not even getting into the garbage with CB phials. Then there's gunlance, whose damage is almost entirely comprised of shellings, which are not impacted by the weapon's elemental damage (they have a miniscule fire portion, but that cannot be buffed in any way and is not impactful whatsoever). Beating Alatreon with gunlance requires you to switch to a low-damage poke-based playstyle simply to be able to beat Escaton. Hammer finds itself in a similar boat, needing to avoid using its strongest attacks in order to deal enough elemental damage. For any weapon like this, dealing that much less DPS means they'll have to stay in the fight far longer, and at that point the inability to prevent the 4th Escaton is a real threat. Bowguns have a hard cap on how much elemental damage they can deal on account of limited ammo. Even with crafting extra ammo types, they can still very easily get into a situation where they simply cannot beat the DPS check no matter what they do. This is far from my only issue with EJ (Ala's tendency to stall during the 3-minute period you have to deal elemental damage, the complete reliance on out-of-game info, etc...) but this is probably the most glaring one to me, and it rubbed me the wrong why that you claimed beating it is easy when you were essentially playing on easy mode. Not every weapon has that kind of privilege, and a lot of the people who struggled to beat EJ were far more likely to have been playing the weapons least able to combat it than simply incapable themselves. Tl;dr the difficulty of beating Escaton varied wildly by weapon and the weapons most impacted by it had a harder time with the other parts of the fight as a result.
@epic4242Ай бұрын
Lance has an element multiplier of .7. I'd argue it is the hardest weapon to get the topple with in the game as a lance main. I hate Alatreon specifically because lance is the worst weapon to use
@epic4242Ай бұрын
Lance's multiplier was .7 and as a lance main even frostfang weapons required 100% uptime to even have a CHANCE of a single knockdown
@senounatsuru645311 күн бұрын
The bowguns having limited ammo is compounded by the fact that THEIR ELEMENTAL DAMAGE IS NERFED INTO THE GROUND for the check, having a .2x multiplier.
@MrMajorAwezomeАй бұрын
First off, amazing video with great context of before and after Alatreon's release!! As a 5th fleeter, I found Alatreon a challenging, yet fun fight but never really understood all the hate/criticism. Since I played through world/iceborne just this year, I had all the knowledge of the game being out for 6 years, which was a massive help, especially for Alatreon. Going into the fight, I already knew the mechanics, what gear to bring, and when/where to attack for the elemental topple and horn breaks. I think your compilation of all the main criticisms of the fight, the explanations, and the rebuttals gave me a great perspective from others who may have gone into the fight blind and/or been veterans of the series. This perspective was hard to gain from a few paragraph post on reddit or other online forums, but was detailed excellently in this hour long video, but such is the difference of the two mediums. I still think Alatreon is a good, enjoyable challenge, but the criticisms of it are much easier to understand and sympathize with.
@samuraispartan700018 күн бұрын
MHW introduced a lot of defensive items and armor skills that made it extremely difficult for monsters to deal damage. The temporal and rocksteady mantles, combined with powerful armor skills like divine blessing and free meal massively crippled the power of conventional attacks. Lunastra was the first monster that had some means of circumventing the mantles. After Lunastra, almost all of the DLC monsters had OP gimmicks that felt more like litmus-tests than attacks that could be skillfully avoided or countered.
@Tortugostalker15 күн бұрын
For me this topic only comes down to 2 things: 1.- When I finally managed to defeat Fatalys, I felt immense satisfaction accompanied by a genuine feeling of joy and achievement. With Alatreon, that didn't happen, it was more like: the nightmare is finally over. 2.- I gladly face Fatalys again and again with a smile on my face. But that will never be the case with Alatreon.
@joshmerchant8737Ай бұрын
ive always said, anyone of my complaints alone doesnt ruin him, but all of them together makes him to annoying for me. NOT to hard, he isnt to hard, just annoying for me. i CAN beat him, but i dont WANT too. Don't hurr durr me with the "jus get gud duhhh" shite. Eschaton judgment is cool on paper, but the execution was lacking. The way sunbreak handled the idea was golden for me, so its not all bad.
@gabadaba5436Күн бұрын
While the argument about nuke attacks being overdone by the end of Iceborne makes sense, one of the things that wasn't discussed very much was how they provide players with a chance to chill for a few seconds - and how important it is. The attack itself and the break in monster aggro gives you a chance to sharpen, reapply buffs, heal, and just mentally relax from constantly reading the monster. Granted, not all nuke attacks are like this, but the three main points of comparison for Alatreon (Fatalis, Behemoth, and Safi) are. You do get a small window of non-aggression with Alatreon, but if you aren't relatively high skilled, your time is usually better spent rushing him down to maximize your damage, something made mandatory by Escaton despite the 50 minute time limit. Every speedrun I've seen uses these gaps to their fullest, and I imagine most average players also try to use these as much as possible, again adding another layer to Alatreon's impossibility for average players. I just hope they do a better job with the endgame of Wilds, but I can't help but feel like they'll power creep themselves into a corner again.
@RyanJW001Ай бұрын
I have a few corrections/clarifications I want to make: 1. Element is very good to invest in on most fast weapons classes, and meta builds specifically maximize investment in element as a higher priority than raw. This includes investing in critical element and elemental augments, even to the point that weapons with customize options have been meta for most of iceborne (even before kjarr came to master rank). That doesn't mean a majority of their DPS necessarily comes from element, but it does tend to be the most efficient place to build dps overall for these weapons. Note: some monsters just have poor elemental hitzones, and even element favored weapons don't necessarily favor heavy investment in these cases. Zinogre is one such example. These are, however, the exception, not the rule. 2. Nonelemental boost only applies to weapons that have an unawakened status/element, or no status/element at all. Raging brachy weapons, for instance, are not eligible, and the only time NEB eligible weapons have been common to the meta was the base patch when shara and acidic glavenus weapons were top contenders. In base world, NEB was indeed stupidly overpowered, and a widely available option on meta sets. 3. Blast isn't very good. In fact, over a long fight, it performs significantly worse than element because blast procs become less and less frequent due to monsters building up resistance to the status. It IS however, the best status for damage that a player can use for DPS assuming they have high enough dps uptime that poison doesn't win out. To say raging brachy weapons were good because of blast is simply wrong. They were good because they had excellent raw, good slots, and purple sharpness without investment. You will never run out of white sharpness on a raging brachy weapon unless you just forget to sharpen, and if you have a good master's touch build, you will spend most of the time in purple. Blast was only ever a bonus.
@bongwaterbojackАй бұрын
Took my friend and I about a month of doing 2-4 runs every few nights to get past Alatreon. Mind you, we didn't look up any guides. We very much wanted to figure it out ourselves. Now we're at a point where each of us can solo him at like a 50% success rate. It's a difficult fight, but doable. Definitely feel like it was a case of people being frustrated by MHW getting hard when the rest of the content was much more mild.
@leonfrancis341826 күн бұрын
@@bongwaterbojack It was definitely a challenge to overcome.
@xlokiju766Ай бұрын
Great video, but small correction, you said the only way to get critical element is to equip silver Rahtalos armor, that is true for "True Critical Element", normal critical element also comes with velkhana armor and basically all rath armors, not only silver I believe. Just a tiny point in a otherwise great video :)
@kittentacticalwarfare1140Ай бұрын
You get the crit elem also on Kulve's Kjaar weapons too
@ST3V3fic7 күн бұрын
Another issue with alatreon which is an extension of the farcaster, is that with LBG and HBG you'd run out of elemental ammo way before alatreon is dead, and because of how elemental ammo is designed you cant carry enough ammo or crafting materials to continue the fight. Furthermore even with escaton judgement it is just mathematically better to still do raw damage or blow him up with HBG
@constantinebratanata13 күн бұрын
The big problem with Alatreon for me as a gunlance main was that all of gunlance iceborne's major damage increases were monopolized by Wyrmstake Blast (WSB) which is only for shelling damage which aside from like single-digit flavor fire damage doesn't do elemental. The way to do elemental damage with gunlance is to only use the physical attacks but since there were no improvements on that side, I didn't use any physical attacks. Also why play gunlance if not for the GUN. I was already doing shelling only by the end of World and Iceborne only encouraged me to double down on that. Asking some players to suddenly use a completely different moveset than one you as a developer encouraged specifically and one that purposely neglects the very core of the weapon's identity encouraged seems pretty artificial to me. I did enjoy his fight otherwise (like his attack animations) and eventually beat it with a friend but that fight left a bad taste in my mouth. By contrast, I enjoyed Fatalis all around much more despite it being much harder. I also don't like the arbitrary disabling of farcasters. At least make up some story explanation for it. It just comes off as a developer giving up and dropping all pretense.
@jada_9827Ай бұрын
noobs will say nerd are being elitist fucks for saying its fair nerds will say noobs are well, noobs for saying its unfair but more than fair on unfair its the fact that no other monster has a dps check with a party wide instakill in mh history, its simply out of place, it does not belong in a chill game like mh...
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
True. There's a lot of valid viewpoints I think.
@flutterymuffinsАй бұрын
I will say you've definitely covered this more in depth than most people I've seen online. I never struggled with knowledge of how to beat Alatreon, and it got really annoying to try to look up guides and help for the fight as all anyone would say is "equip element and topple him get gud". As a veteran of some time Alatreon walled me HARD. Harder than any other fight in all of MH. It took me roughly 25-30 attempts with and without skilled help and over 100 hours of on and off hunting to finally beat him for the first time which i did about a week ago solo. This grind was *miserable*. While almost all my complaints are covered very well there are some small things I noticed personally that irk me. For one thing bonking him, at least solo, is a herculean task as the hitbox for the walls in the arena are wildly inconsistent. Ive seen him hit the boulder horns first and just slide off of it like butter. And while I cant state this definitively, I'm 95% sure Alatreon is coded to shorten or stop mid attack if you clutch claw his face and knock you off. Speaking of, if he happens to use an electric attack it will instantaneously bust a fully upgraded temporal mantle in roughly a single second 😮💨 As for Escaton, I still think its bad. I hate that it made me change my entire armor item loadout and play style, I hate disingenuous mechanics, and I hate that it can punish you for small mistakes; I had plenty of times where he would EJ right after I had been hit hard or stunned or knocked down and didnt have time to heal the EJ even if I had gotten the topple. I even grew to somewhat enjoy his moveset over time, but I was never able to enjoy the fight as EJ was always looming over me. This fight almost ruined my enjoyment of MHW even after over 500 hours, and I think that Alatreon being the penultimate boss of IB left a bad taste in my mouth. Ranting aside I think this is a fantastic video and you've done a great job hitting all the major points, and thanks for being rather neutral and not shaming people who love the fight or the people who take issue with it^^
@ricardorunos9782Ай бұрын
Burst was also in World, just as Elemental Acceleration and locked behind the Namielle set.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Ah, TIL!
@be6434 күн бұрын
The fight is not the issue, its the restriction on weapon type. It requires so much grinding for a specific element weapon. Judgement is a pain but it changing its element is worse given you. Plus it is isnt the easiest to damage given its time on the air. Not the hardest fight but definitely most hated.
@CardboardBoxGodАй бұрын
This was a fight where I started hating how World/Iceborne scaled with player count and probably how poorly it implemented, I remember playing when the updated recently had dropped and my three other friends were too stubborn to switch their setup or use the recommended Element for the knowledge we had at the time and with many tries we never killed the monster. After they all left I decided to try the monster on my own and what do you know I kill it first try with zero struggle, the horn shattering was significantly easier and I was consistently suppressing Escaton Judgement on my own. I don't remember if we ever did get back and beat Alatreon as a team but I do remember them all killing Alatreon at some point whether it be with the power of retrospect or they went and solo the monster with the knowledge I gave them about how it was significantly easier to control Alatreon's quirkiness. I'm glad this video exists as I always did find Escaton Judgment to be awful and I always felt alone on this matter (especially my friend circles)and only to be met by people of the extreme sides of "You are just bad" to "You just hate x game" on the internet.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
I've criticised World in the past for making monster health too low and then jacking it up way too high for Iceborne, but it's likely that because it was their first game with health scaling, they didn't know the right levels, and they seem to have got it right in Rise. But yeah health scaling can be a bit of a problem. It makes soloing the game a more pleasant experience, but it means that if someone isn't pulling their weight, the whole team will suffer. It all falls apart at the weakest link, so to speak. Back in the day I believe hub quests were scaled for 2.5 players. So things would be hard but doable for one, ideal for 2 and 3 and with 4 you would have an easier time. I quite liked that in theory.
@joereed8872Ай бұрын
Fun fact on the teostra super nova. There is a specific point of his song that lines up with the 100-second timer, so if you listen for that part specificly, you could always dodge it
@grootgroot220817 күн бұрын
HUH?! This peaks
@chelsthegameruiner866911 күн бұрын
Teostra was an issue with his attack? I personally struggled with Lunastra and her nuke attack. Not saying I never beat her though, she became easy after awhile
@joereed887211 күн бұрын
@chelsthegameruiner8669 in gen 4 and earlier, teostra's nova hit a little harder and was significantly faster and, I think, unblockable. It wasn't something who could dodge on reaction, and outside of having high fire resistance, it was a oneshot. But as mentioned in the video it happened on a 100-second timer exactly. And those 100 seconds lined up with a change in his music so you could listen to the music to know when to keep your distance. His fight wasn't really hard if you knew how to do that. World teostra is definitely hard on a base level
@scragglieАй бұрын
fantastic and in depth video about difficulty in monster hunter. an hour long video and not 1 second was wasted or uninteresting. bravo man this was fascinating to watch.
@darkbeetlebot4 күн бұрын
Something a lot of fivers don't realize is that element weapons have ALWAYS worked this way. It just became more apparent in World because of how bloated the raw of weapons became and how bad the hitzones of monsters became. Old games also had skills that gave much more significant boosts to elemental damage, whereas world's element boost skills are trash.
@toxicitzi357Ай бұрын
I'll stick to what I've been saying for years about Alatreon, I very much prefer how they evolved this idea from World into Sunbreak by giving monsters a critical state that comes after their enraged states, starting with Xeno'Jiiva. Like you said, that feels more natural with their moveset and screwing up there feels like it's your fault, because you're failing the same attacks that are slightly super powered now and in general, they have more interesting dynamics going on with the fights, softening up more parts to make monsters more susceptible to damage, thereby rewarding calculated aggression, as well as a topple mechanic that still feels amazing even after hundreds of hours, seeing the monster reeling back and falling down hard on their backs, or doing a massive backflip into the ground, in the case it's an aerial topple, it's just, Glorious.. That's the kind of feeling David probably felt when taking down Goliath. I know that EJ is beaten into the ground, but I do think that a much more unforgettable fight was lost due to getting this mechanic, if we'd gotten a critical state for Alatreon, similar to all monsters before or after him in Iceborne and later on in Rise/Sunbreak? For me, that would've made Alatreon the best monster in Iceborne, bar none.. On the other hand though, it gives me big hopes for the future of the series how the developers looked into this and developed challenge for monsters in such a great way. All of that said though, I'm not entirely I'm not entirely opposed to this idea and all in for just 1 type of powered up moves/states, there are ways that they can make something like EJ work and I think it would be similarly to how Amatsu's massive attacks work.. That way we can get some interesting and dynamic attacks that can be the signature moves of more peculiar monsters like these, for another example, Fatalis's breath attacks were done in a pretty interesting way even though on the surface, they seem fairly simplistic.. And knowing that these are the devs dealing with these kinds of conundrums? I think we're in the best hands for this, I can't wait to see what they've got cooking in Wilds.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
God yeah I love the critical states! Especially with Primordial, Bloodbath, Ruiner Nergigante. It rules so hard, like a final test of sorts. I also agree that having the occasional guaranteed OHKO can work, but they feel less special when there's like 4 of them.
@MrRAGE-md5rj6 күн бұрын
@@HeavyWings or when it's literally being spammed as the monster is on it's last breath, i.e., Safi'Jiva.
@LadyTsunade777Ай бұрын
Fights like Behemoth, Safi'jiiva, reworked Alatreon, and reworked Fatalis, that _hard require_ a specific build / team comp / strategy and have extreme DPS checks, are objectively bad design for Monster Hunter. The entire point is being able to use whatever weapons and builds and fighting style you want, while being able to overcome monsters by learning their attacks and weak points and openings, and use your skills and the experience from previous encounters to successfully hunt them. If one person wants to use Elemental weapons, and learn what monsters are weak to what elements, that's great. If someone else wants to use pure Raw weapons and win out by big flat numbers, that's great. If someone wants to use Hammer and play it dangerous by always going for the head, that's great. If someone wants to use bowguns or bows and attack from range, that's great. When a monster specifically requires the whole group to know a specific strat, how to do every phase, and have specific builds, all ahead of time, that's _bad design._ Also, unavoidable damage does not belong in Monster Hunter. Escaton Judgement is something that does not belong in the series _at all._ The point of learning monsters and gaining experience is that you can start avoiding attacks and taking more risks, and be more aggressive because you can avoid attacks.
@ryaquaza3officalАй бұрын
I really don’t know why your comment is soo low on here you have an absolutely massive point
@diogomiranda5183Ай бұрын
Pairing fatalis with siege fights and alatreon does not make much sense. You have no dps checks, no unavoidable 1 hit kills, and you don't need a specific build or team comp. As said in the video, it requires you to be on your A game. And no, focusing the horns doesn't count as an obligatory strategy, as plenty of monsters from earlier games have mechanics in their fights that encourage you to focus on specific monster parts. Everything else you said is pretty reasonable and is tied to personal opinion/taste, which I respect, as ultimately the dev team can't please every one and every design decision they make will be met with criticism. Personally I love world's end game boss design but it is flawed, and I don't expect everyone to like it.
@Xero-rr2ol5 сағат бұрын
Nah. You just need damage and to not be shit. They are good design.
@GlobBlubbАй бұрын
World was my first entry into Monster Hunter and I got around playing it about half a year ago so I heard about the elemental dps check before. It took me an entire week of practice runs to beat Alatreon, including the gear grind, but ultimately it was one of the most memorable fights in the game and I love it so much. It's just as he said in the video, for the first time I was actually forced to learn a monster's move set in and out. The grind itself was surprisingly fun, though. I distinctly remember the first time I didn't panic when Alatreon threw down the fire circles and dodged into the inner ring for a punish. Pure bliss. The most misleading thing about the quest is the MR25 requirement. Being new to the series and not knowing any better it kinda felt like an insult when it says 25+ on the box but 50+ was not enough. Oh, how naive of me. Now I know for anyone without any prior MH experience it's a mislabeled MR100 quest. (at least for me it was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc96686 күн бұрын
I still think Alatreon was more fun back when he had access to all elements at once as he did in 3. It makes him feel more like a master of elements.
@jordan.z.mАй бұрын
Here's the thing if you're playing a ranged weapon one shots have always been in the game since they take 30% more damage just for existing. This is often what drives me nuts in world and rise end game is just a series of one shots until I can basically finish the quest without getting hit and no one talks about it because there are only 3 gunner weapons and most of the community isn't using them. Just to be clear this is coming form a bow player cause to some extent I get it for the guns but the bows not really playing at range to the same extent.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Afaik gunners having low defence is to balance them, since they don't have to be close to the monster, and are capable of massive damage. Bowguns get the best speedruns in like every game iirc.
@raccoonofmotivation2027 күн бұрын
The funny thing is that its not really a defense reduction, its them getting an elemental def. Bonus rather than physical when most attacks are highly physical, even elemental ones. If they make damage work more like souls in the next game, ranged might get a significant buff
@namename2040Ай бұрын
To be fair with amatsu, primordial, alatreon, and fatalis if you were playing the game since the beginning you wouldn't or shouldn't have the issue of fighting them too early. I don't think Capcom cares about you late purchase or late playing experience like that
@firesire397127 күн бұрын
This is super interesting timing, I just returned to World and finally solo'd alatreon myself earlier this week. For some context, my first mon hun game was 3U, and I struggled with Alatreon back then. I can't recall beating him. I was hyped for his addition into world, but struggled on first release. I knew about the elemental necessity, I was running chargeblade which I was certain had enough damage from SAED to make it work. But I was still failing. Finally, while on call with some hunter friends, I took time and re-evaluated my setup. I had been running primarily Alatreon into him, assuming it was obviously the best considering its elemental resistances and the boost to elemental damage. It turns out no, 3 pieces of safi and 2 pieces of alatreon gave me a huge boost in elemental damage, and the safi set bonus gave so much consistent sustain, alongside vigorwasp. I managed to get two kills later that night, and was very hyped. Now I am here and see that SAED is explicitly nerfed for Alatreon's EJ stagger, and feel a bit robbed while still understanding the reasoning. Without the nerf, SAED would've absolutely dominated the hunt, but I really wish we got a pop up telling us it wouldn't be as effective. Regardless, I still love the fight, Alatreon's animations and kit are near perfect in my eyes, and I always viewed my failure against EJ as a failing on my part, not Alatreon's. I had actually been grinding to unlock augments (Im only MR 98) when I re-attempted with the new kit, and I can 100% say without EJ's difficulty I never wouldve bothered to do so.
@backslash4141Ай бұрын
I like alatreon because, as an insect glaive main, it made my kinsect more than just: "grab buffs, set and forget 'til i need more buffs" Instead, my kinsect WAS my elemental damage, allowing me to bring a raw damage build. I'd love if we could utilise our kinsect a bit more like that in Wilds
@Abedeuss8 күн бұрын
Insect Glaive is probably the most fun weapon to use against him, that I agree with. You can pretty much kill him with JUST the kinsect.
@lander6443Ай бұрын
You know what would be a better way of not having the accessible camp for Alatreon while also not disabling farcasters for no reason? Just not have a camp. Have one of the npcs say in a one off line that it’s too dangerous to set one up. There’s still a ‘camp’ area where you start the quest and go back too when you die, but there’s no actual way to restock. With this you still can’t change weapons if Alatreon switches elements, but it would feel more natural and less cheap than randomly disabling farcasters. It would also turn the farcaster into a ‘get out of jail free card’ if you fail the Ej check.
@twoseasonscoffee3976Ай бұрын
Farcaster can be used as free jail card if you fail elemental check to survive eschaton judgement? Have you fought fatalis,behemoth,safijiva? they disable farcaster when The nova in process not the whole mission. Disabling Farcaster is stupid idea to begin with! Also didnt putting camp is also more questionable than disabling Farcaster
@TheElinoАй бұрын
The camp already exists from Safi'jiiva tho Why would it suddenly be gone? That makes less sense than the camp just being there tbh
@HauntedAnimationsАй бұрын
My only issue with Alatreon is me having to go hunt down a frostfang Barioth cause I have actual shite luck with getting parts i want
@siegwardinspirit26 күн бұрын
Feel that. I've had hunts where I was missing a single uncommon item for like another 10 fights despite breaking the necessary parts.
@johan9428Ай бұрын
My two dislikes about EJ: 1) Alatreon elmzones are terrible while his hitzones are good, meaning we deliberately have to make choices that lower our overall DPS just to beat EJ (except IG, which can go full raw while putting in auto-attack an elemental kinsect on the arms). Pushing players to use elements by introducing a mechanic which kills you if you don't while not addressing in the slightest the reasons why players don't use elements in the first place is a receipt for outrage. Just make elements a relevant source of damage. In Iceborne, Savage Deviljho, Stygian Zinogre, normal and black Diablos are monsters against which elements can be more powerful than raw. Slow weapons should also be tuned so elements are also viable with them. This is a Pb which has been going on since the beginning of MH, yet absolutely nothing has been done to correct it. For that matter, Iceborne director thought it was a good idea to put a 0.7 multiplier on the elemental power of IG and Lance, making them even worse at elemental damage than GS and Hammer, in a game where he was trying to get players to play elemental. What the Hell? I hope MHWilds will undo these nerfs and I am glad Iceborne director is gone from the MH team (insert the tenderizing mechanic here), even if I still like a lot MHWI. 2) The fact that Alatreon can still shift to its opposite active, even after both horns are broken. Essentially, this is a DPS check within a partbreak check within a DPS check, which is just silly. Sure, Alatreon is most likely near death and, yes, an experienced player can beat Alatreon solo before he can swap (or even before he can fire a second EJ). But Alatreon is balanced around Kjarr and Safi weapons. Safi'jiiva is forced multiplayer. Solo players would spend a year farming for his armor and weapons because of the energy drain being balanced around 16 players. For players on console who didn't pay for the PS+/Xbox live, Safi weapons/armor are off the table. In my opinion, MR Kulve Taroth DPS check is even harder than EJ. When I first fought Alatreon, Frostfang Barioth was not here yet, and I couldn't pass the first phase of MR Kulve Taroth (I didn't know what the check was. A partbreak check as the NPC said? A damage check? Once I figured out it was a DPS check with partbreaking extending the timer, then I built accordingly and killed MR Kulve Taroth on the first try, but it was well after Alatreon and I had to get the infos about the DPS check on the internet due to how bad and misleading it was presented in the game). My only options were the Beotodus weapons, which are severely lacking in raw, meaning Alatreon had enough HP to switch to Ice active, then kill me with the next EJ (for my first kill, Alatreon shifted two times to Ice active, each times killing me with the next EJ, and was in Ice active mode for the third time when he finally died). Alatreon is my favorite fight in the series, but if he returns, I hope elemental damage will be reworked so using elements against Alatreon is not a necessary handicap to not be killed by EJ. Maybe making EJ a temporary damage boost for Alatreon to the point his elemental attacks can OS you (like Fatalis blue fire) should you fail to meet the check would be better.
@boshwa20Ай бұрын
I have killed 50 Iceborne Fatalis I have only killed 2 Alatreon I will kill 50 more Fatalis before I willingly fight another Alatreon
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
I've flip flopped on which one I find better but it's only very recently I've come to a conclusion.
@boshwa20Ай бұрын
@@HeavyWings Honestly, if they just changed Escaton from a one shot into just a REALLY hard hitting attack, I would have no problem with it. Death by own recklessness or death by lack of supplies is preferable than the game deciding I need to die
@deinonychus1948Ай бұрын
@@HeavyWings I think I've killed more Alatreon's than Fatalis' I like to call Alatreon my personal whetstone, ensures that I don't too rusty!
@alkalostrytoart1024Ай бұрын
@@boshwa20 For me personally, if they just make a better wallbang hit detection, or change the wall from those little 4 corner stones into just...walls surrounding the whole arena, the fight would be easy and fun. Yes it has gimmick, but Alatreon attack is predictable in the fun way. It's just everytime you need to break the horn, you fail because the wall is just too small, and sometimes Alatreon DEFINITELY going into the wall, but the game decide to not register that as a wallbang hit. And that pissed me off so much.
@ijhh100Ай бұрын
Alatreon is my favorite monster from when I started in tri and just in general now. My only issue in world is I honestly I didn't know if I was doing things correctly with a great sword because nothing told me of the different values per weapon type on release. This made the fight feel hard to identify my mistakes. I don't have friends, and random people dropped like flies, so I face and beat it solo.
@TheTexasDice15 күн бұрын
To expand on "Some Elemental Weapons suck": Alatreon fights (and most of Master Rank for that matter) were not designed with bowguns in mind. Capcom quintupled the monster health in High Rank, without giving Gunners extra ammo. Which would be fine, because you can fire multiple ammo types and craft more ammo while on the hunt, right? Wrong. Your crafting capacity is very limited, so unless the quest allows you to go back to your item box, you won't get enough ammo to one-tap a fight. Second, bowguns in MHW are designed around using ONLY one type of ammo. A balanced bowgun using spread, pierce and normal to do damage and sticky and status ammo to support the team... doesn't work, because your set skills and the bowguns are designed around abusing one type of ammo. Which brings us to bowguns. You can completely cheese a lot of monsters by hyper-focusing on only using either Spread, Pierce or Sticky ammo exclusively with all the damage buffs. There is no way for an Elemental Heavy-bowgun (which has absolute garbage motion values on Elemental Ammo) to get through an Alatreon fight without running out of Fire or Ice Ammo. And because of Escaton Judgement, you are not allowed to FARCASTER back to base and restock. So playing bowgun against Alatreon is basically a mandatory cart to restock. But if you have a mandatory restock baked into the fight, you might as well just take STICKY ammo and stunlock alatreon to death and take the Escaton deaths on the chin.
@johnnycashtng43748 күн бұрын
Thanks for this review, me and the nephew will be continuing to try our best to beat this dragon. For sure I know with enough experience we can learn his move set as we've done with other quests. It'll work out
@Tyrantbal22 күн бұрын
World Alatreon just never became fun for me. I don’t mind the prep work, or changing my gear. I switch my set up often, to keep the game interesting. Specially when hunting the same monster over and over. Alatreon and Lunastra were the two monsters I only hunted to get their gear, then never again.
@spookyfrogs1874Ай бұрын
HE'S BACK i love your videos so far alatreon and fatalis are the only two monsters i haven't beaten after all my time with world :/ i don't even know how to begin approaching them. i've beaten fatalis in mhgu and alatreon many times in mhgu! but pretty much insta-cart every time i try in world, even before EJ -_-
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
First of all, thank you! Secondly, if I could offer some advice, watch someone else fight them. That's what did it for me and Fatalis, could not beat him with longsword, watched a speedrun and while I didn't become an expert, I figured out there were much better ways of dealing with certain attacks that would allow me to be more offensive. It can work well!
@jutzo4574Ай бұрын
Given the removal of the quest timer in wilds, i wonder how that will effect difficulty in the future. Also given the new mechanics surrounding packs of large Monsters, which you can seperate from one another if you Play it right that could have a big impact as well. If Dung Bombs exist in wilds they might be far more useful than in earlier titles.
@themeekkatАй бұрын
They'll probably go the rise and Sunbreak route in giving them more trickier movesets and more tracking of attacks. Especially with pack monsters
@Fixti0nКүн бұрын
Escaton Judgment was a skill check. There has been plenty of them throughout the series. Lord Gog's Dragonator, Dalamadurs head, Fattie's dragon hail and Hard body. etc.etc.etc. Most contained to black dragons. Though none were insta kills, they were all essential to completing the hunt, and if you couldn't, the hunt would be considerably harder. Alatreons gimmick is different, but in my honest opinion, its not that bad, its suppose to be a hard fight and he is suppose to he a strong monster, lore and gameplay comming together. I feel like the larger problem is that you can fight him at HR12, you have to be almost 9 times larger MR then this to fight Ruiner Nergigante, and as one who once had the WR speedrun of this fight (let me flex this okay, its my one claim to fame), Alatreon is in general a way harder fight. When you have newbies coming into end game with regular equipment and no real skill checks, they will get bodied why Alatreon in mere seconds, no less beating the DPS check. Odds are they will time out before they can kill the monster, no less survive the whole fight. But i do agree with the "Instakill do not belong in Monster Hunter" even if you "can" survive it, its not suppose to be survived.
@robertwoods3871Ай бұрын
Im sorry, but i still think Iceborne Alatreon is dogshit and nothing will change my mind. EJ being tied to a DPS check wouldn't irritate me as much if it wasn't for the fact that it's completely unavoidable. Getting punished with One Shot damage because i didn't kill you fast enough? That's fine. Forcing me to eat said One Shot damage with no way to defend myself? Lame.
@AravaganthusАй бұрын
Capcom wanted people to use elemental damage and instead of making elemental builds good they made all the others bad for this one fight. Oh, and dragon water and thunder builds were still useless.
@SkojSkullАй бұрын
Fantastic video bud! I remember when the review bombing was happening when the monster came out 😅 it was a wild time for sure. It was a hard fight for sure and still is! I just hope they keep bringing in the challenge for wilds! It's going to be an insane ride for sure!
@Itsjumbomuffin2 күн бұрын
I for once really wished they would implement more „you fuck up you die“ ultimate skills.. it’s somehow super cool and on monsters like alatreon and fatalis it was fitting like a god damn glove. Stuff like Teostra etc is also super cool and I really dig it but it’s avoidable yet super cool and gives an uncanny identity(!) absolutely love it. That alatreon „feature“ using elemental weapons was just a smart move cause it’s conveniently fitting and made an every do unpopular weapon tree (elementals in general) mandatory so people had to farm and optimize onto only a weapon but gear set to which gave them a new goal to grind and optimize for. This monster hunter team is really squeezing the best out of monster hunter and I think we can lean back, enjoy the Wilds trailers and teaser and grab a beverage to be sure shits gonna slap harder than our daddies.
@DopamemenergicАй бұрын
Insect Glaive players stay winning with Alatreon given that the kinsect alone can fulfill the elemental requirement, allowing us to use any glaive.
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
That's so wild lol, Insect Glaive rules.
@RevonliekeАй бұрын
Meanwhile me doing Altreon for 12hours straight learning it and eventually we just took a bunch of widerange skills with us and healed through Escaton by force. From what I gathered it wasn't such that people didn't know what to do. Pretty early on in a random group lobbies people realized they needed to do elemental damage. But many players were just coming from the back end of Iceborne meta which was very Raw focused and no-one really had any elemental weapons or sets specifically for it. At best alot of people managed toonly bring the Kjärr Weapons from Kulve, but without specifically having a high elemental sets. And combine that with laying with randoms, it quickly became a shitshow because not everyone was able to keep uptime with their weapon consistently. I personally realized that the best option I had, ws to bring Thunder element, because that way, regardless of which state Alatreon was in, I atleast was able to push the elemental threshold when others couldn't. And majority of the time people did not break the horns, so Alatreon was always switching from Ice to Fire, so it was almost a necessity to have someone able to keep uptime on elemental topples if possible. So what we ended up doing is; Be able to do the 1st elemental topple, and heal with relative safety. But it quickly became problematic after that if there was no horn break. So alot of it was realiant on 1 player having thunder at that point and once Alatreon goes Dragon active and everyone is able to deal elemental again, it was a hit or miss if we got the 2nd topple before 2nd escaton. But for that we did have the friendship wide-range system which helped us to stay alive by force. the funny part about this is that afterwards we had killed Alatreon just 2 times or so, I brought a friend who didn't know anything about the fight into it and we killed Alatreon with only him using a raw weapon while the rest of us dealt with the elemental stuff. And it was somewhat funny, considering how we struggled in random groups for so long.
@DiaSynapsidАй бұрын
The only reason I can see them releasing Frostfang later would be the pandemic. If they were released simultaneously, would it have stopped the "why should I build element" complaining? Most likely not completely, but the sour taste would likely be lesser.
@RevonliekeАй бұрын
@@DiaSynapsid Well MR kulve had been out for months at that point and people didn't get those weapons, nor did they get their Safi weapons maxed out for element. Everyone was just too focused on what people were saying was the best on youtube so all they had were raw builds unless you were a bow main. Sad as it is, MH meta directly effects how regular people play the game, what builds they make or don't make. And also, Alatreon had a lot of returning players who don't necessarily play super actively so it was a big problem for those as well since they didn't play enough to get to the level you need to be to beat Alatreon nor have the gear. Sure frostfang would have helped. But I believe Frostfang weapons to be utterly gamebreaking for progression as well. So had it been released earlier the weapons would have needed to be much weaker as well.
@Bbill99088 күн бұрын
After I slowly gained knowledge of Alatreon and Fatalis, I felt it so satisfying to finally understand the attacks. I was so happy on each first kill of each of them, especially because I'd done them solo. I initially hated the instakill, but as I understood the mechanics, I learned to actually enjoy them
@LizardMan86753092 сағат бұрын
My problem with Alatreon is that he conflicts with the primary philosophy of Monster Hunter hunts. They usually have a long timer so that over the course of the fight it incentivizes you to learn the monster and improve. This way you will eventually finish the hunt unless you cart too many times. Alatreon’s hard damage check doesn’t allow this where you only have a fixed amount of time to meet the threshold. It also made certain weapons borderline un-usable (looking at you GS) because they are incredibly inefficient at applying elemental damage, meaning that a lot of people’s main weapons were a massive hindrance
@apgdanielricardo8196Ай бұрын
As a newcomer to the series (first game was world), I LOVED Alatreon, he was my main goal for months, until I decided to farm the Safi Jiiva armor set and Kulve weapons. Once I did that, I beat him on my first try, before that, I was banging my head against the wall with the set I used to every monster before, maybe people didn't want to adapt, or change, they wanted to keep their "good for all" set, I defeated Alatreon on last Christmas for the first time, with 17 min on the timer, it felt great! If I could beat him, the said veterans, who says stuff were way harder back then shouldn't have a problem with it. I went for the plat on Worldborne and RiseBreak, and I'm having a blast in GU now Greatsword is easy mode there for real, I'm clearing all the quests, and I've only had 2 carts so far, didn't fail a single quest all the way up to 9 stars. I had a cart for Zinogre and one for freaking Khezu lol Fun game anyways.
@deinonychus1948Ай бұрын
"I had a cart for Zinogre and one for freaking Khezu" You used Rathalos armour... didn't you? Not that I'm any better, as I've been replaying MHGen on the 3DS just for the hell of it and after beating Nakarkos; my only triple cart so far has been Dreadking Rathalos, and until I farmed the Astral Set, I was using full Rathalos armour (that failed quest against DK was with LOW RANK Rathalos armour lol) It's hard to believe that many years ago, I had rage quit MHGen after losing to Low Rank Hub Gypceros lolololol
@fmbm2948Ай бұрын
My biggest issue was the need of elemental. It’s a little silly to be fair, but I have 2,300+ hunts with a great sword and 0 with every other weapon. It’s a little OCD but I like the one huge number and zero others, it makes me feel like I’ve really mastered the great sword (which I’ve been playing exclusively on my first character since tri), and the idea of needing a “1” somewhere else on my list bothers me. When Alatreon first dropped, trying to sos respond with a great sword was almost a kick every time before you’d ever enter the hunt. I ended up playing other quests until I’d get insurance, then I’d solo with the blast GS and just eat the 3 deaths which is not a good mechanic at all. With the Witcher crossover, playing as Geralt didn’t change your weapon stats in your guild card which was a really cool idea.
@kalalstonАй бұрын
Why didn’t you just use an elemental GS?
@lKrlal14 күн бұрын
Thanks for this video. As a person that picked up World/Iceborne recently, you do a very good job at summing it up pretty well. The progression in Iceborne endgame is confusing at best, with the game throwing incredibly hard monsters at you, that require you be at higher MR to get access to better Guiding Lands farming and materials, that are nearly a MUST have for these fights. With that said, I was really looking forward to fighting Alatreon, as I've been soloing the guy since his debut in Tri, yet I had a hard time explaining why I thought Iceborne Alatreon was such a bad designed fight because of Escaton Judgement. I sincerely find his fight entertaining, I like fighting the guy, yet the restrictive measures taken (and to add insult to injury, with hidden mechanics the game doesn't tell you about, that are different ONLY for this one fight) make it bad for me. I don't mind EJ being a DPS check, if anything, I used the Afflicted and even Risen as good examples as to how you can add DPS checks without restricting the player so much. MH has always been a game about letting the player decide how to finish the quest, restricting them to using one thing or two does not make a good game design, and World seems to be more about that than other games. Granted, they learned about that in Rise/Sunbreak, but alas, we spoiled the fandom so much, that just because we get tough monsters that don't 1HKO you, the game's "too easy". Hopefully Wilds will use both WI's and RS' experience to make difficulty better AND scale better.
@seanfortes715613 күн бұрын
Great video. Is even motivating me to have another go at Alatreon. I loved Monster Hunter World, and Iceborne and still have the best and fondest memories, but I injured my arm around the time Alatreon released, and then life interfered in other ways, and by the time I had my first few attempts much later... I was mostly a solo hunter, who used Great Sword... really struggled. A lot of the info you gave in this video, I was completely unaware of. Back then I even tried to use SOS after a few days of trying, but we'd usually fail and then I would feel a bit guilty. Despite being my first wall in Monster Hunter, I never really disliked Altreon or the game, or the design of the fight (well knowing some of hidden mechanics would have been nice...), just figured I might have to move on and or try again later. That being said, at that point, I had felt like the game had given me and some of my friends hundreds and hundreds of content, enjoyment and good memories. Before Wilds come out, I should revisit World/Iceborne and give Alatreon (and Fatalis a go). Am happy I found your channel, will subscribe and have another great Monster Hunter creator to watch! Cheers!
@primalrager2434Ай бұрын
131 views in 16 minutes bro still got it
@jessefyfe9249Ай бұрын
For me and my mates alatreon was the end of build diversity even on our new playthroughs we just run 4 dual blades and build towards ice from the start knowing alatreon is waiting
@lennyface53148 күн бұрын
Me and the friend I played the entirety of World and Iceborne with, used almost exclusively Heavy BG and Gunlance respectively, the weapons with the worst elemental damage in the game. We were close to beating Fatalis, we have spent COUNTLESS hours trying to beat this stupid Italian dragon to no avail, and we'd rather keep attempting Fatalis, all because of one elemental damage check. Eventually we started another playthrough on ICE (the mod that makes World infinitely better) and tried as many weapons as we could, eventually beat him, and it STILL wasn't fun playing around an elemental damage check, thanks Capcom, don't pull this again in Wilds, thank you.
@Frank-kq4te7 күн бұрын
Encouraging players to build elemental damage is one thing. Enforcing it with a oneshot mechanic is another. Not giving enough information to players is also bad enough, the fact that to this day I didn't even know his arms had elemental weak points speaks for itself. Also I never liked the two mandatory condition is to win the fight, both breaking his horns and the elemental discharge. Fatalis to me did this way better, you don't have to break his horns, but if you do the attacks are weaker.
@pizzahunter69Ай бұрын
His elemental damage check is not fun.
@TheExFatalАй бұрын
It's a dumb fight I never liked because it funnels you into making a specific build just to beat this dumb idiot, I'm so glad they added Fatalis later as the ultimate MHW final boss Now THAT is a fight
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
fatalis is so crazy lol, I refought him for this video and he still took me so many tries to beat.
@CEO_of_fredАй бұрын
You don't even have to use element, you can use a raw rbrachy teostra mixset and still beat him. Alatreon is just a very effective skillcheck and filter
@TheExFatalАй бұрын
@HeavyWings it's one of my favorite MH fights, and I genuinely love it. Helping people with Fatalis feels insanely rewarding
@Kanens-bs5xp19 күн бұрын
Proud to say I solo'd all of World + Iceborne without carting once
@superdarklink6 күн бұрын
When me and my friends first tried to fight alatreon, we died basically immediately, and that essentially made my friends put down world under the idea that weve already beaten the story so theres no point in playing just for "superbosses". I kept playing though, and though i cant beat normal alatreon, i was able to solo the reduced health quest to unlock fatalis.
@doomboi789Ай бұрын
God, I legitimately despise Alatreon. I find his hunt to be far more annoying and frustrating than something that actually feels difficult in a "fun" way. I'm somewhat thankful for his existence, as he forced me to somewhat abandon HBG and pick up two of my new favourite weapons, Lance and GS, but he's still not fun in the slightest. "Artificial difficulty" is a pretty fitting description for his fight. And even though I can kill him in around 20 minutes with 0 carts, I'm constantly foaming at the mouth with rage, every second that I'm forced to fight him. I've killed Fatalis almost 40 times now, I find his hunt to be the single most enjoyable and easy to understand hunt in the game. Hit the head, break the horns, weaken the fire, be aggressive, win. Meanwhile with Alatreon, his arms are weaker to elemental damage than his head, despite his head being more susceptible to raw damage. His tail is weakest to ranged damage but you need to constantly focus your attacks on his front if you want to survive and you can't chill out and go for a tail cut (this makes my unga bunga GS brain very unhappy). The giant rocks around the borders of the area are super finnicky with when they decide to grant you mercy and let you perform a wallshot, so you'll end up wasting a crucial potential damage window and just end up enraging the damn thing. Then he flies for a good 3rd of the fight and has what is easily the most annoying mount in the game. I've killed him around 10 times, with most of those being me getting online and deciding to kill him purely out of spite. Not to mention the fact that critical element is an armour skill rather than a decoration, making it annoying to have enough room in your build to both deal optimal damage and have any comfort skills like free meal. I would genuinely consider Alatreon to be more difficult, or at least more infuriating, than Fatalis. I can sit back, relax, take it relatively slow and steady with Fatalis and still kill him in under 25 minutes, or even wipe him out in 19-20 minutes if I choose to put effort into playing the game and being hyper-aggressive with Lance. I have no other option than to be hyper-aggressive against Alatreon, and it feels exhausting, especially when you can't farcaster out at any point in the hunt to restock or get more food buffs. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Fatalis is fun for me, Alatreon is not. Maybe I'm just bad at the game, maybe I'm completely wrong with everything, all I know is that if I was held at gunpoint and forced to fight Alatreon, I would still face him, but constantly be muttering curses as I stare at my screen and watch as he slides off a wallshot rock for the 5th time in a row.
@deinonychus1948Ай бұрын
This monster single-handedly shaped me into a true monster hunter! I'd always call for help when the going got tough and that actually worked rather well, until Alatreon... it was the first monster that I fought alongside everyone else (I came into Iceborne before Alatreon but after Raging Brachy) and it was quite difficult having to contend with the fact that I wasn't the only one struggling, EVERYONE was struggling! Took me 2-3 days of fighting it before I finally won, and now I can solo the beast almost effortlessly, even doing the fight with the HUD off by accident (I had fought the Crimson Fatalis mod and turned the HUD off to get a screenshot for the thumbnail) and still winning! and in subsequent playthroughs, I actually struggle against Alatreon more than Fatalis, as I've killed the latter on my first try TWICE, once with Longsword and the second with Switch Axe, whereas Alatreon was still quite hard with both (especially Switch Axe, as I was less experienced with that weapon, even though it was my main throughout that playthrough)
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
That must have been a really cool feeling, to collectively struggle together against a new monster like that lol.
@breachphoenix6497 күн бұрын
The thing with the fight is even after improving at the fight, I can’t enjoy it because I’m always stressing about meeting the timer. I’m never thinking about his other moves just Escanton.
@exxlppm8 күн бұрын
Despite how harsh this fight was, I'll never forget the highest highs I reached in this game were when I defeated Alatreon with a group and then finally solo.
@darkchaozbringer78514 күн бұрын
There's no need to play semantics. Regardless of what you want to call it, if it walks like a DPS check and acts like a DPS check, it's a DPS check. Other than that, my only other critique is that you are trying way to hard to be neutral vs. just sharing what others said and what you personally have to say about any given thing.
@dmbrachydios14 күн бұрын
So I'm not the only one who picked up on that. It also seems like he is trying to justify Escaton Judgement being in the game.
@jakefurry7522Ай бұрын
on my few hunt with alatreon, i surpassed dps check fairly regularly but escaton always gets me, even with health booster with other player i love alatreon design, attack, and attacks telegraphing but escaton ruined everything for me
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
Nailing the Astera Jerky timing is kind of annoying lol.
@BoosterGoldyАй бұрын
very interesting breakdown excited to see more of what ur channel has to offer.
@dirkechoes137728 күн бұрын
Just recently got to and solo'd Alatreon. I'm determined to beat every monster in the game Solo so I stubbornly stuck to it, only afterwards did I hear there was a big controversy. I don't get how having to change builds to beat a super boss is worth all the anger... Now this fucking Fatalis timer on the other hand. That's some real bullshit
@XUltimaReaperXАй бұрын
Yea my biggest problem with him at release is the elemental damage thing since I’m a greatsword Main we were kinda limited in options for ice we had a literal fish lol
@dralakba-dusk31Ай бұрын
I dont mind One Shots when theyre not related to a DPS mechanics One Shots can be fun if they're these cool telegraphed attacks that you can just get out of the way 😊
@DiaSynapsidАй бұрын
Behemoth, Safi'jiiva, and Fatalis say hello. Kulve kinda has some things like that which aren't OHKOs, but the design philosophy between the lava puddles and the ceiling melt are similar enough. Meanwhile, I still screw up the Jerky timings on occasion with weakened Escaton.
@zemisushi7241Сағат бұрын
I still remember fighting it solo using lbg.
@doaberrolrole16 сағат бұрын
I hated how escaton only let me learn the fight in 6 minute increments before kicking me back to the hub. It made learning the fight a chore.
@mchag1802Ай бұрын
Fish
@HeavyWingsАй бұрын
There is no Plesioth in this video.
@JaxonDavis132Ай бұрын
@@HeavyWingsNo! Even if you mention its name, you get hip-checked!
@mchag1802Ай бұрын
All vertebrates evolved from fish. So calling Alatreon a Fire breathing, Water spitting, Ice making, Thunder crackling, Dragon emitting Giant Flying Fish isn't too far off