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HELTEC 10A Active Balancer. Great for large capacity batteries. But is it really?
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Күн бұрынToday, we have the HELTEC Active Balancer with 10A balance current on the workbench. As always here on the channel, we want to go to the extreme and see these 10A of current flowing! I have prepared a 12V test battery with the highest deviation possible to give the balancer the best chance to transfer its maximum of 10A between the cells.
I also compare this balancer with the usual 5A capacitive balancers we have used in the past.
Battery BMS and Balancers:
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@markdavidson6321 2 жыл бұрын
Interested in hearing what Heltec support said about your questions. Thanks for the information, as always!
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Sure thing!
@teardowndan5364 2 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing the Heltec balancer is simply an isolated DC-DC converter with four single cell outputs in series. To reach close to 10A output, you may need to have two low cells getting 4.5A each assuming the primary side has sufficiently high current/power limit.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, right, I'll do the opposite test then...
@mediocre_moto 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I was thinking, a combined maximum of 10A, not necessarily 10A on the one cell.
@Aconda 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, my though as well. Hopefully we will see a follow up from the Off-Grid Garage in the nearby future.
@raymundhofmann7661 2 жыл бұрын
I suppose it is a transformer with 4 equal windings and a synchronized dc to ac switch on each. Will not even have any efficiency advantage over the switched capacitor circuit which wastes half the energy in the R of the RC circuit, because it is essentially the same, just with a LR circuit.
@arthur88888888888888 Жыл бұрын
@@raymundhofmann7661 There is one advantage: It will last for a life. Capacitors does not last so much time.
@ryanroberts1104 2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad I'm not the only one that marks boards like this as "bad" and keeps them anyway after they've been smoked. I might need it later!
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
For teaching and coaching purposes 😂
@boatelectricaldiy Жыл бұрын
The reason to buy this balancer is because you can buy the 24s model and use it from 4s-24s. This gives you one balancer to rule them all. I use an unbranded model because it's cheaper then the Heltec. It has terminals I put my own wires in so they are sized correctly.
@danielardelian2 2 жыл бұрын
The JK-BMS seems to have the best balancing algorithm. The balancing current does not depend on the difference, the JK-B2A... version can balance with 2 amps even at 20 mV difference and you can set the "Balance Start Volt" to stop it from actually causing more imbalance at cell voltages below 3.45V
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that is correct. There is only one balancer which is better than the one in JK BMS...
@engsam7759 2 жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia which one ?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
@@engsam7759 The NEEEEEY!
@coreybabcock2023 Жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia so you recommend the neeeeeeyyyyyyy ?
@ericheydemann9556 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Thank you. I have those balancers in my cart and was about to press the buy button. Standing by awaiting the follow up video
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I'll do more testing to see what else I can find.
@loucinci3922 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. Follow up video for sure. Thanks for sharing
@ingmarmaul4464 2 жыл бұрын
It looks like this new „10A“ balancer provides power the hole time and do not have the problem with charging and discharging the capacitor’s so we even transfer more power within the same time, can you check this. I like the design it is more failure resistant instead of the capacitor balancer.
@svens.5588 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Andy, pleased make a Video about the respond. Im very interested what they say about the wrong current measurement
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
OK, no worries.
@georgef7754 2 жыл бұрын
Heltec response will be interesting.
@FutureSystem738 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy, great testing again. 👍 I’ll just have to wait for them to return my faulty JK BMS, nothing heard yet. 👎
@lj516 2 жыл бұрын
The Heltec is an isolated design that uses a flyback circuit to transfer energy from one cell to another. I would guess the total current that the balancer can handle is 10A for the entire pack, meaning 2 cells at 5A. You may need a NMC cell to achieve the necessary voltage delta and 10A for a single cell.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I'll do more testing soon. Thanks for your explanation.
@stevenlane729 2 жыл бұрын
Yes for the Haltec bms followup please Andy
@wideawaketotruth5301 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy!
@excillisbank2611 Жыл бұрын
Merci pour ce partage technique et test sur les 2 actives balancers d'HELTEC idée à développer...
@BavarianSuperGuy 2 жыл бұрын
8:36 Heating Module , hehehe
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
It can get a bit warm, but this is not the main purpose of this device 😉
@peterking1134 2 жыл бұрын
Why not present the manufacturer’s explanation??
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Will do...
@energieundhobby 2 жыл бұрын
Greetings from channel energie&hobby.... You can buy everything on the internet, not everything is always good 😂 I love the honest way you deal with it. Always very entertaining =)
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Matthias!
@awesomedee5421 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. Please make a followup. That is curious from the same manufacturer. My first thinking was those cheap wires you mentioned if there was too much resistance, or if it was based on the Lithium Ion batteries with the higher voltage instead of the LiFeP04 voltages.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I think 0.6V is already a very high deviation for a batty pack. This would normally never occur under normal operation.
@johnbell1859 2 жыл бұрын
Great show Andy. 🇬🇧
@jerry232366 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the balancer just turns off because the cell voltage is below 3.4V. (In the automatic mode). Great video as always, keep it up.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that would be a great feature actually. I didn't think about that before.
@evil17 2 жыл бұрын
I dont mind the sleep function idea even tho it doesn’t bring the levels closer than 110mv as you can still turn it on periodically to bring them all into proper balance, if this balancer does indeed balance completely at all as it should, maybe this could be another test. It was a disappointing demo to say the least, it should have performed according to specs, the cover is a nice touch but not worth the extra $. I would like to hear Heltec’s response to what you have found here and to the bms queries also. Thanks for all ur testing here Andy, its good to see what we can actually expect from these devices ur always testing, than what we may expect when reading the specs. I guess a good formula for buying ‘Chinese’ anything, is expect half or less than the stated information. Good vid & test. Cheers
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Evan. I'm currently recharging the second cell to see how the balancer performs under normal conditions.
@xpatrikpvp 2 жыл бұрын
That is a interesting way to make a active balancer... Maybe thicker cables would help it to reach 10A balancing (Maybe it's already 3.6v at the balancer conector pcb)
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
That would cause some serious heat then but it stayed pretty cool as I could not feel anything getting warm inside.
@inmyimage1081 2 жыл бұрын
Another vote for testing 2 low cells in the pack as well as how long it takes each balancer to balance the pack and how each affects the charge and discharge cycle, especially with cell 6 and your other weakest cell. Luck of the draw gave me 2 sets of mismatched cells for a pack from someone who disappeared so I can’t replace them and am likely going to put an active balancer on the pack full time but look for a solution that will only turn it on above 3.4v and below somewhere like 3.25v (need to dig into your test data more to pick better start and stop voltages). Have Daly BMS’s thanks to Will Prowse’s recommendations for them so don’t have an effective balance function 🥺
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll do some more testing with this device. As someone said here in the comments, it might be not bad that the balancer turns off itself if the voltage is lower. This was always what we wanted. I would not recommend turning it on at low voltages just to squeeze out another 1-2Ah out of a the battery if it is already fairly low anyway. This will just destroy your top balancing. Yeah, with the Daly BMS in place, you may want an active balancer for your cells. Unless they are very well matched and the Daly can handle the balance itself.
@inmyimage1081 2 жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks part of my issue is that not only do 2 of the cells discharge significantly faster but they discharge significantly faster and my loads will be around 100 to 150 amps when the inverter in our RV kicks In. Just noticed after using your Aliexpress link that Daly has a 1A Smart Balancer that can be hooked to their BMS and that not only is the balace voltage settable but that the voltage current is settable which is interesting.
@fossil4160 2 жыл бұрын
Andy when you try to measure with the CRO check both ends of the bal leads. i.e. you will be checking lowZ at the cell terminal & what you will see at the bal end may have you thinking!
@JbVest Жыл бұрын
I trust those silicone wires better than those hard to bend plastic coated wires any day in fact I prefer those wires
@Christian76S 2 жыл бұрын
That's why I put two 5A balancers in parallel and was seeing already some 7A balancing current with just 0.4V deviation.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
You can have as many balancers in parallel as needed. They all work together. Very good for high capacity installations and parallel cells like a 4p4s system.
@frankiestechvlog7653 6 ай бұрын
Then i will try to connect my 2 6amp balancer in parallel on my s168 3p 8s . One 6amp balancer is not enough one cell is overvoltage to 3.75volt the rest are 3.4vto 3.6v. Hope this will help.. thanks
@iammnaborofficial 7 ай бұрын
i think the HELTEC is an Inductive type balancer and the one without a casing is a capacitive type balancer, as far as I know their are two types of ACTIVE balancer Inductor and Capacitor type.
@rcinfla9017 Жыл бұрын
Can't read the part numbers on the devices in video. Usually, the way this works is like a flyback transformer with multiple primaries and multiple secondaries all charging the primary windings and discharging through the secondaries in parallel. During toroid charging, all cells contribute to charging parallel windings but cells with highest voltage contribute most of the current to charge the toroid. When discharging toroid, the lowest voltage cell absorbs most of the discharge energy from the toroid. No gating of which cells supply charge or discharge is necessary other than blocking diodes to actual cells. The small E transformer provides isolation for driver MOSFET and 8 pin IC's are likely the actual switching MOSFET's to charge the toroid coil. The large devices near battery terminals may be just diodes to keep current flowing in correct direction for cell polarity. Efficiency isn't great because of forward voltage drop of blocking diode in relation to cell voltage. Efficiency can be improved if diodes are synchronous MOSFET rectifiers but that adds some extra complexity and expense. If you expect 10 amps average, the peak current must be much greater to charge the toroid and the windings wire gauge used is so small it will have a lot of voltage drop. Too much extra resistance reduces the differentiation on which cells get the most charge pull and most balancing push currents. Just a crappy implementation of a reasonable active balancing approach.
@highlander2330 2 жыл бұрын
The sum of all currents (without +/-) is arround 10A, fine marketing... :)
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, yeah, if it is that, wow... 😂
@sjdtmv 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks again Andy, would be interesting to see the voltage and current curve between each battery as it tries the balancer the pack, but I think the 10a sales pitch is far too high< interesting the 2 different technologies used.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I'll hook up the oscilloscope in one of the next tests and see what I can find.
@SigmaOfMyParts 2 жыл бұрын
the one with the coil will also waste more energy for the transfer. this may cause the difference in amps. but of course i want to know a companies response if there is any
@GapRecordingsNamibia 2 жыл бұрын
I would like to hear /see what heltec has to say about that..... It can probably only reach 10A under very certain conditions..... it's otherwise a blow to them claiming 10A if it does not get there, BUT! I do agree, 10A through a what 20 maybe 18AWG cable? Silicone or not, it's still a leap of faith.... Schöne Grüße, Danke Andy!
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. This is what I expect too, I just have to find the right setup and... the 10A 😂
@chronical2000 2 жыл бұрын
Good video Andy very informative 👍
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
@reymarklagria6180 2 ай бұрын
I wonder if could you try to parallel them both. Would be a fun experment
@FelixSamulevich 26 күн бұрын
Nice box
@octoma Ай бұрын
Turning off the balancing feature on the bms? I've watched a few of your videos about using an active balancer. I'm thinking about getting an active balancer, but several KZfaqrs have done research and pretty much concluded that it's not necessarily a good idea. One of the main points is how a balancer could drain your battery. It got me thinking, what if the balancers are conflicting? I've never seen anyone try to test without the BMS balancer active. This might be a good quick test that could answer the active balancer question once and for all. Great content btw.👍
@kharimwalters4053 2 жыл бұрын
Yes I too was very disappointed in this balancer. The only thing I like about it is that it's in a protective case. But it's not worth the extra money 👎
@sreekumarUSA 2 жыл бұрын
@ KW. The enclosure can be made at home with acrylic sheet cut to size. I have done it. The only issue was the Amber indicator was below the PCB. I took care of it by desoldering it and wired a 3mm Bright red LED; I perforated 3mm hole to acrylic case. The LED was then pushed into the hole, which was exact fit. Acrylic bonding solution was used to make the enclosure.
@philippbeisteiner683 2 жыл бұрын
Danke für die wirklich tollen Videos.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Super, vielen herzlichen Dank fuer deine Unterstuetzung!
@CATA20034 Жыл бұрын
Tou need t =o use short and thick wires. They don't have kelvin connection, so the drop in the wires will fool the ballancer and will not push more.
@WolterBuikema 6 ай бұрын
Hi Andy. I think the wires from the cells to the active balancer are too long and have too high resistance. You can test it again with much shorter and thicker wires and check if the current will go up to 10A at 0.6V difference
@electhailand 12 күн бұрын
We can parallel activebalance capa 2 boards. It is 10A and cheaper.
@chuxxsss 2 жыл бұрын
Heltec really, the wires are to small to care the 10A Andy, I went 5 hours to get more panels mate. Beautiful scene on the trip.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Nice!
@nn858121q 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Andy, it is Bullschitt
@claudioporto5926 2 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see if it performs better when the voltage difference is much lower between the cela
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Recharging right now to test under 'normal' conditions.
@chrisporter449 2 жыл бұрын
Just set up a parallel 2p-8s 280ah battery, first one ever. I got a Ponoser BMS...( DALY knock off).. uses Smart BMS APP. In the last couple weeks there was an update for the App, now it has a new button in the bottom middle, says Active Balance, and it appears that it balances all the time now...? Wish we could somehow try to get a better understanding of the SMART BMS app.. maybe could be a good video, not very much info out there about it at all.. Thanks, great video, glad I didn't spend an extra 40$ on my 2 8s active balancers.
@m1fpv 2 жыл бұрын
I saw the same thing on my Daly BMS app recently. Just to disapoint you.. its for their line of smart balancers. Current BMS won't balance :( You'll need to buy their "SMART Balancers" Same app for two different products :( Sorry, I was just hopeful as you
@chrisporter449 2 жыл бұрын
@@m1fpv I ran my cells for a couple days b4 I saw their update. Before update cells on front page just stay there and very occasionally moved, after update high cell turns red, low cell turns blue, and I swear I can see them adjusting microscopically up and down all day.. Since I'm trying to get a good to balance done at least once, I have it set to balance anytime cell is above 2.65.. (hoping that makes it balance more).. but the actual balance indicator on top of screen, ( near charge and discharge switches) only turns green when cells have a Delta of more than 20millivolt... Disappointed with information to clarify all this stuff.. Not sure I can count on it. That's why I'm also using the 5 amp plug in balancers also.. just want to get the darn things balanced once! Lol.. good for my OCD😉
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
They use the same app for both devices. I've got some Daly smart balancers on order to test them soon.
@franciscofortunato1864 Жыл бұрын
Buen análisis y sobre todo, gran sinceridad, a la hora de plantear tus dudas. Yo en mi caso, llevo, poco tiempo implementando, balanceadores baly, en mis baterías de lifepo4, casi todas recicladas. El resultado es aceptable y en la mayoría de los casos, las celdas se recuperan y adquieren “una nueva vida “. Estoy experimentando con pequeñas cargas y mucho tiempo, pero mi meta es, ir incrementando más carga, para ver cuánto es capaz de dar el bms. Hace poco tiempo, he descubierto los activos, a base de condensadores y me interesa mucho el tema. Así he encontrado tu canal! Estoy buscando algún esquema , para intentar comprobar su eficiencia. Ya te contaré. Saludos desde Madrid!
@igorkvachun3572 2 жыл бұрын
Yes balancer 🔋⚡👍
@pulith5220 2 жыл бұрын
Great job. What does the shop say about this. Yes please let us know what the mail say about the bms.
@thomasschmidt9264 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe two of the 20$ balancers in parallel will do what you expected from this one 40$ balancer? If you have two of them, can you try it? I think there should not be any bad interference.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, you can have as many balancers in parallel as you like, they would all work together.
@MisterRavlyk Жыл бұрын
In specs 10A has if diff 0.8V and more between cells. If diff ~0.1V - have 1.2A balance. The author has a difference of 0.65 - should not have a maximum balancing current in 10A. There should be an average of ~4A, which is what happens in the video, since this is the optimal and safe balancing current. Read the manual better )))
@marloa1115 2 жыл бұрын
very informative video,, 👍👍 maybe they compute the 10a as the total of multiple cells balancers. 1 question what is the idle consumption of each active balancers?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Could be the case. I'll do the reverse test at some stage with only one full battery and 3 empty ones... Standby current is between 5-15mA depending on the device.
@MrSqueegey 2 жыл бұрын
I have one of the 4s balancers.works great if you charge under 5 amps
@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading 9 ай бұрын
Heya, a balancer in the bms bild in oke but only a balancer no thanks
@stepbystepbacktobasics2731 2 жыл бұрын
I just got a "Daly Smart Cell Active Balancer Equalizer 1A Lithium Li-ion Lifepo4 Board Battery 3S 4S 12V 7S 8S 24V 10S 12S 14S 16S 20S" from AliExpress, I was wondering if anyone else has this or has used it as I'm having trouble finding the software for the smart active balancer. This is my first active balancer, after watching all Andy's videos, I feel it's about time to try experimenting with this myself, Should I use the word experimenting? If anyone could help I'd really appreciate it. Andy, I really appreciate your channel It's taught me so much over the last two years.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Mine arrived 1 week ago. Didn't have time to look at it yet... It uses the same app as for the Daly BMS. There is now an additional tap at the bottom for Active Balancers.
@stepbystepbacktobasics2731 2 жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks for the info, I'm finishing up a new battery build and I'm going to try it on that battery. Never had a smart BMS or smart anything before. So this should be fun. Thanks KJ
@loucinci3922 2 жыл бұрын
Wait! How did you “kill” one of the active balancer? Or was that in a previous video? Nice review. Thanks for sharing
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
It just stopped working over night while it was connected to a battery pack. They told me it has a non replaceable internal fuse somewhere and is therefore 'toast'.
@michaelrocher8059 2 жыл бұрын
I have a problem? I watch you battling the similiar, I have decided to mount my panels in summer and winter with trackers. FOLLOW THE SUN NO SHADE ALLOWED. hmmmm so much for opinions?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
What's your experience? I think it is better to just install more solar on a fixed mount to compensate for any loses rather adding to the complexity of a tracker (stability, wind, area, maintenance,...)
@mattwassum8694 Жыл бұрын
So I ordered an 8s heltec active balancer. They sent me a 9-14s. So I opened a dispute. They replayed that I could use the one they sent without any explaination. Can I?
@SkypowerwithKarl 2 жыл бұрын
High Andy. I’ve seen the same transformer type under a different name on one of the Chinese liquidation sites so now you’ve satisfied me curiosity about it. I don’t know exactly what Heltec does, if they actually make what they sell or they just rebadge stuff like others do. I’ve seen Heltec selling things that look exactly like a JK BMS and the Neey active balancer. I still haven’t found anything that has the balancing power of a Neey (and clones) balancer when it comes to 4+ amps at only .004 cell difference. They work so well I’ve retired other balancers. I’m assuming because of your videos that the JK bms that they are are second in terms balance power/speed. Thanks again Andy
@inmyimage1081 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tidbit about your experience with the Neey balancer. You mentioned clones, have you actually used a clone and if so which one and where did you get it?
@adon8672 2 жыл бұрын
What's this Chinese liquidation site?
@SkypowerwithKarl 2 жыл бұрын
@@adon8672 Alibaba like.
@adon8672 2 жыл бұрын
@@SkypowerwithKarl Thanks. I've never thought of Alibaba or similar sites as liquidation sites though.
@SkypowerwithKarl 2 жыл бұрын
@@inmyimage1081 I’ll have to look when I get home. One has no branding just laser marked connection pin numbers and the other I can’t remember. One was on Amazon and the other was EBay in both cases the seller isn’t offering it anymore but there are others now but I don’t know if they are selling off old inventory(obsolete model) so do your due diligence. They seem to be getting more scarce. Probably because the JK (& clones) cover both bms and smart balancing in one package.
@isfanromeo 2 жыл бұрын
Make a test pls of 10A JK BMS
@MichealG 2 жыл бұрын
Waiting for the tips from heltec bms
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Coming soon!
@dket2571 2 жыл бұрын
And my car is capable of 223kph, doesn't mean I drive at that speed all the time. That is what is reasonably required to balance, and that is what it provides.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I don't hink this is how we should compare it 😁
@dubusonrenovationszarius 2 жыл бұрын
Hi thanks for the previous advice about solar panel fuses , will it be OK if I also put a fuse on the negative wire.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, absolutely, This is mandatory in some countries already to have both cables fused.
@renewyers4699 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Andy could I ask for a request please I think it was u that said to earth the off grid system. in some cases there is a designated earth point to connect earth cable, to the inverter,now if there is no connection point for the cable
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
No, I didn't say that. You need to follow the manual of the product and get an electrician to check for compliance and safety.
@Mrdsmith500 2 жыл бұрын
None of the balancers I have on my system work. Supposed to be 5 amp. I have never seen more than 1.4 moved when the diff was the highest. I wished they would work, but they do not.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
There is only one balancer which actually works as it should...
@peterpetersen6024 2 жыл бұрын
Would like to see if the DC-Current is pulsed, and would than assume the UNI-T can not measure it correctly.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Good point, I'll hook up the osci...
@glencooke494 2 жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia osci..... WHAT?🤣🤣🤣
@diabolo3506 2 жыл бұрын
@@glencooke494 ... osci_lloscope. lol ;)
@sithieu9009 Жыл бұрын
Can you try 2 cells high and 2 cells very low?
@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын
I think I did test this.
@mfgxl 2 жыл бұрын
Heltec agian? I thought you determined over a year ago that they were poorly designed?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
We keep trying... The BMS works without problem in my setup since installation.
@DanBurgaud Жыл бұрын
A few days ago, I was having problem with my variable power supply. Voltage kept dropping even though the unit is capable of supply 10A. I discovered that the wires used was substandard and large voltage drop. When I replaced the cable, the voltage drop was greatly reduced. What if you change the balance wires to a larger size, say #10~#8?
@adon8672 2 жыл бұрын
This is highly disappointing. Seems most of their products aren't up to specifications. I wonder what will happen if two or more of the cells were fully discharged. Will it deliver 4.3+V to each discharged cell? Please let's have details of your discussion with them. Thanks for the video Andy.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I will do more testing soon.
@gumpster6 2 жыл бұрын
Disappointing for sure. I was thinking roughly same thing as Teardown Dan... check it with two charged/two discharged cells. Maybe there is some sort of limit per cell (5A?) but it will balance two at the same time. Will be interesting to hear what Heltec has to say about their BMS and this balancer.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
I will do the test with this setup soon. Hopefully it works out better...
@Dirt-Diggler 2 жыл бұрын
Chinglish mathematics 😏 4.7A in and 4.7A out is 9.4A, round it up to sound better and there's your 10A 👍 I honestly don't know why your disappointed 🤣🤣🤣
@jeffvenqueleir2036 2 жыл бұрын
if you count like that then you are correct but the say this not in the datasheet
@MrStyle-sr1yv Жыл бұрын
Can i connect and reconnect these balancers over and over ?? Because i had some cheaper ones and i burned them all.
@antoniosalandy7108 Жыл бұрын
Does it have to be connected to a charger to begin to balance? Or will it balance a sitting battery?
@renewyers4699 2 жыл бұрын
Oops i pressed the send button too early.sorry on my MPPSOLAR inverter should I just connect the designated earth stake cable to the earth turminal on the 3 point turminals active, neutral, and earth, as in a 3 plug configuration.would that be ok .cheers Rene
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Hard to tell from this little information. Best to get an electrician to get this checked. This is probably beyond DIY and a safety question.
@jjohnston7837 2 жыл бұрын
How did you "kill" the balancer?!
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
That was in one of my tests I did with it. I think it just stopped working over night. Hankzor said they have an electronic fuse somewhere which cannot be replaced. So I bought some more of these for testing purposes
@OurPalawanExperience 2 жыл бұрын
On the Daly BMS app there is a button on the bottom from the last update that says "Active Balancer"...but for the life of me I cannot get it to function. It will not turn on...however it does say its balncing when the threshold is reached. Any info?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
You need to buy their active balancer first. They use the same app for both, their BMSs and balancers.
@philipkudrna5643 2 жыл бұрын
They should change their name to “Hell-Tec”…
@David_11111 2 жыл бұрын
YAY Andy if you put 1000 amps on the wire, would the internal resistance of the battery being charged not control how much current it can pull out of the active charger.....
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
The internal resistance will determine the current unless the charger has some sort of current limiting function (which it should have).
@jamesmason7124 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Andy, from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. Can you please test the 4s REC 500 amp bms
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Hi James, I don't have this BMS 🤷♂️
@tiloalo 2 жыл бұрын
Would it be possible to set 2 in parallel to increase balance current? For the 10A balancer, maybe it would charge 2 cell at 4.5A if 2 were low ?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, you can set them in parallel. It also says this in the manual. For best results with high capacity cells, please use multiple balancers in parallel to increase effectiveness.... something like this.
@dantronics1682 Жыл бұрын
I know this doesnt sound very logical but if I had a pack where a cell need balancing all the while somehow I would be thinking that cell is faulty. I just had an 8s pack given to me which havent been use for 4 years and I put an active balancer on it and nothing happened
@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын
You can only tell if you fully charge the battery. Cells need to be over 3.4V (with LiFePO4) to show any sort of deviation.
@ranig2848 2 жыл бұрын
Might be marketing speak of pulling up to 5amp from some of the cells and sending up to 5amp to difference cells…misleading but might still be able to balance “at up to 10am” 🤷🏼♂️
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, right. That could be actually it, haha.
@jackoneil3933 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy, Informative even if not as expected. Also, I noticed at 4:49 the cheap Heltec balancer has a "RUN"bridged solder pad next to the plug. Is that to add a "sleep" or on/off function or for an LED indicator? Three Questions: 1, Have you tried paralleling two 5A active balancers to get 10A? 2, If you had one under preforming cell (Cell #6) , and enabled 10A active balancing while under load during say the last 20% or so of capacity, that should help utilize the capacity in the better performing cells, right? 3, Do you or anyone have any good ideas for how to implement a 'sleep' function (disabling) the capacitive balancer?
@evil17 2 жыл бұрын
I can think of 3 ways to automate top balancing off my head, each with pro’s n con’s. 1. Use a switch to manually engage this function as required. 2. A timer you can set to come on when you want, say once a week or 1/month. 3. A voltage sensitive relay/circuit board u can vary voltage trigger to activate balancer when a preset voltage is reached. You could use a small (cheap) battery voltage control board to trigger only when battery level is getting near the upper level of SOC around 3.4v/cell. I know these aren’t the best solutions, but should mostly work within reasonable limits. Im sure there are many other ways this functionality could be achieved if given enough thought. Hope this helps. Cheers
@jackoneil3933 2 жыл бұрын
@@evil17 Thanks, that is exactly what would be useful, but most of the cheap active balancers have no V+ control voltage lead and are always functioning when connected with no way to turn off balancing other than completely disconnect the device.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
1) Yes, I have shown this in the video, I think, there was still the capacitive balancer connected as well and both worked at the same time showing 7A or something. 2) Yes, it does help a bit but but comes with a trade off. The problem here is once you fully charge again, cell #6 will peak the first again as it is charged a lot more than all other cell. Keeping such a balancer always connected, destroys your top balancing. Not recommended, I made quite a few videos about that. 3) I would turn off the balancer altogether and have it only connected once in a while. 2-3 times a year should be OK but it depends on your cell quality and how matched they are.
@jackoneil3933 2 жыл бұрын
@@evil17 Update, I just noticed on Andy's video at 4:49 , the cheap Heltec balancer has a "RUN"bridged solder pad next to the plug. I'm guessing that could be "sleep" or on/off function. I also see it on other advertised units but no references. might be worth removing the solder see what it is.
@amerkhafagiable 2 жыл бұрын
Practically, Can we parallel 2 each 5 A so the net current will be 10 A ?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that will work. In fact, you can parallel as many as you want.
@rodelbandigas8271 2 жыл бұрын
Gud am sir can I ask question BMS can be a pararell can you do vedio for this BMS can be do pararell? Thanks sir I always watch your vedeo
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, sure
@rodelbandigas8271 2 жыл бұрын
Sir and also a vedeo in 2 equalizer in a pararell please make a vedeo thanks sir.
@farside87 2 жыл бұрын
That's a very expensive twenty dollar case.
@stardusttwo6262 2 жыл бұрын
Can you use two Heltec balancers in parallel ?
@Ozzy3333333 9 ай бұрын
You need to be fair and measure the 600mV at the balance connector, not at the battery.
@luc_libv_verhaegen 2 жыл бұрын
This active balancer cannot be configured to only switch on at 3.45V, so as you have proven already, there is little point in having it at all.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe that's why it was of the next day and it actually only activates at higher voltages? More testing coming...
@PowerPaulAu 2 жыл бұрын
I agree, it's disappointing. But there could be a couple of things going on (which may reduce but not eliminate that disappointment). At first I thought the cable might be affecting it, but later in the vid' you used the other loom and there was no difference. Perhaps as someone else suggested, if 2 cells are low, and 2 are high, then the combined current would be 10A. I actually doubt this, but it's worth testing. I wonder what happens with the capacitive version in this scenario too. However I do think the balancer shutting down the balance function below about 3.4v (in sleep mode) is something good. This way it's not running all the time (which you say un-balances batteries). Instead, it will only balance at the top end of the voltage range, which you prefer (and have set up your JK BMS to do). So it's either On, or Voltage Controlled. I think this is pretty good. If you connect a charger, then this should balance in a similar way to the JK BMS. Perhaps we need to think about it as bringing the high cells down, rather than bringing the low cells up.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Very good points, my friend! 🍺
@jjohnston7837 2 жыл бұрын
Just to be fair, do the follow-up.
@RambozoClown 2 жыл бұрын
If you parallel the highest and lowest cells, what is the transfer current in that max configuration?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
Uh, oh, that could be a lot of amps, easily destroying your cables. I would not recommend doing that.
@xmon_mnnx5597 2 жыл бұрын
do you think this BMS would be a good back up BMS, if say a in bought lipo4 bat BMS fried as a example of an 300 aH bat? (aslo would that 10a worrk beter on more cells then only a 4 cell test if you have more cells you should test it with an 8 an 16 cell setup if you can id love to see if it works beter bigger mbs test)
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
It is not a BMS, it is a balancer. Two different things. A BMS is a safety device which protects your battery cells, a balancer just equalizes your cells.
@praveenjain6025 2 жыл бұрын
Intresting observation .. sir, is it possible to use dc To dc buck and boost convertor for individual çell to maintain commen voltages in bettery pack during solar charging witch will eliminate all juglarry in maintaining the voltage of cells ...once again thankyou
@hommerdalor6301 2 жыл бұрын
Hello. Yes it would work, but each dc to dc converter must have separeted power supplies, you can not put the dc to dc inputs in parallel, and the outputs in series, it would short circuit the ground sides, and fire smoke. 💥💣 Cheers.
@ralph9987 Жыл бұрын
Did it say 10A per cell? The extra is for the box and the screws. Sheesh
@repairman2be250 2 жыл бұрын
You should get half the money back.
@ilanozana9652 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it's total 10 amps
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
That would be 🤢
@KeithvanDijk 2 жыл бұрын
Andy I'm just wondering if this device can be used to equalise 4 x 12v batteries in series?
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
You mean the 10A balancer or the secret device in the box?
@KeithvanDijk 2 жыл бұрын
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The 10 A balancer. I've had battery equaliser on my SLA battery bank for years and they work. I'm wondering if this device would do the same job on my SFK kits.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
@@KeithvanDijk But if it is not 10A, it is not a 10A balancer 😉 The SFK kits can be equipped with a capacitive 10A balancer. My kit has that but it is not great if it runs all the time...
@KeithvanDijk 2 жыл бұрын
Andy, I have 4 x SFK in series to 48v. One will battery will be near or at 100% SOC, the other 3 will be somewhere between 96-98% SOC. I was wondering if I could use this device to smooth out the difference between SOC. When the 1st battery reaches 100% the BMS shuts down charging to all batteries until it reaches release voltage and then charging begins again. Perhaps this device could help smooth out the transition. BTW, loving the SFK kits, they work very well.
@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын
@@KeithvanDijk Oh, no, that won't work. Each balancer is only for one 4s battery and does not know about the other three packs you have in series. They won't balance beyond this on pack they are connected to.
@michalctakanych 4 ай бұрын
Как всегда китайцы сделали неправильно.У тр должна быть жесткая характеристика - каждая обмотка должна быть равномерно распределена по сердечнику.Ну и провода должны быть минимальными и аккумулятор должен быть зашунтирован по клеммам керамическими конденсаторами.Тогда при разбалансе 0,5в ,ток достигает 20 - 50а,зависит от тр и емкости аккумуляторов.
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