Ron Dennis would have had this sorted by now. he was notoriously obsessive about the small details. McLaren lost it's DNA the moment they ousted him.

I'm an engineer. This is what happens when you let engineers run a company. A lot of them think their s doesn't stink and customers are an annoyance.

Apart from harrysgarage, you are the only person on youtube I can listen to a 35 minute monologue from!

Money pits Steering rack failure $35,000 I kid you not

I’m glad you addressed this. It’s a major shame that Mclaren is choosing not to focus on quality and reliability. It’s going to kill their brand equity. A quick look at the Mclaren forum will show a ton of embarrassing quality issues - corroded metal, missing/falling pieces, etc. These are often not easy problems to fix at the dealership. I test drove a new 720 and 570 Spider - both had issues during the test drive. The salesperson was not at all surprised. I was in the market to buy one, but I decided to stay with Porsche - terrible reliability is unacceptable.

When you live 810 miles away from the closest dealer, a McClaren isn't an option.

This commentary is completely accurate and long overdue. I also feel that is possible to kill the golden goose no matter how well endowed he is.

Can confirm the warranty cost. My mate here in the US had a 12C, and the warranty was $6k USD per year.

Audi R8 has great reliability, compared to the McLean super cars.

I think the reason the 650s was so much better is because it was in essence a 12c with the snags ironed out. They’re a young company (as a car manufacturer) and are living out their growing pains very publicly. When the 675LT came out it it immediately be the one to beat and quickly established itself as a definitive super car. At that point there was no direct competitor they were losing out to so when the 720s was released the performance step up was unbelievable and left everyone in a state of shock - less we forget the 720s was the successor to the 650s yet was always compared to the LT which unbelievably was a significant step on. I think they really pushed the design parameters with the 720s and what we’re seeing now with the reliability issues is a product of that. We probably need a 750s with the snags worked to get them to the point they should be at. With regard to the Senna the moment I saw it I thought it was a limited run variant of the 720s and also thought what an awful looking car it is..... I was also very unimpressed with the use of the Senna name and felt they’d made a bit of a shameless marketing lead decision to exploit the status that name carries. Senna didn’t race sport cars where their only connection is through the F1 .... they’re two completely separate eras so how can you connect them? To me it felt like a cheap shot. I think the whole project should sit in the same space as Ferrari’s FXX project and not be seen as part of their range. I don’t think you can blame McLaren, the FXX cars have proven there is a market for ridiculous track toys at ridiculous prices. Basically it’s still early days, the sports car series proved they’ve come along way (apart from the 540c confusing the range a little) and their quirks and oddities is quintessentially British and that’s a good thing!!

'Supercars' are the most expensive, least reliable, costliest cars to repair / maintain / insure, on earth. So if you have to stretch your finances in any way, just to acquire the car in the first place, it's a dead certainty you have set yourself up for a painful financial loss. It's also nearly certain that you'll rarely, if ever, have a chance to use that car properly. If you truly enjoy driving, you will enjoy it more in something you can afford.

My dad's 12C spyder has been with us for just over a year. It spent 6 months through the summer and spring getting it's engine rebuilt, fixing oil problems, etc (under warranty). Electrical problems happen bimonthly. Reliability is a joke. Yet it is the best car I have driven and I love it to bits. We will probably move on to another car just for the servicing time lost every year. $2700 oil change here in the states! And the oil change took over a month to complete. I shit you not. Update: It spent another 4 months in the shop for the exact same problems this year. Engine rebuilt again. Mclaren compensated us for some of the time lost which was nice of them. My dad loves the car too much to let it go at this point.

Very good to see someone talk sense about cars like this. Far too many people will have you believe that these cars only go up in value and are also free to run

I love that this was filmed in a 911 ....

You nailed it. I just traded my 2013 12C Spyder for a 650S Spyder. The 12C was beginning to have some issues. To be fair it never stranded me and I put 8,000 miles on it in 18 months with 2 track days. I love the brand and I love the cars. Started a Mclaren Club in Dallas. I am at the entry level of being able to afford these cars and you description is completely accurate of how they treat that level of buyer. Everything is priced for the rich rather than the well off. Extremely accurate and unbiased video. Great job! Cheers. I subscribed.

Me and my business partner bought two super cars March 2019.he got the 570s, I’ve got the 488gtb. He sold the car before the end of 2019, main reason was the 570s just keep dropping and the new models just keep coming up, I totally agree with what you say about McLaren, and we probably will not be looking into McLaren for short amount of time until they come up with something to protect the second hand market for their cars

After reading the title I assume that McLaren's are free then after 3-4 years?

Before buying my Evora I started looking at 12C's second hand online, and I have to admit reading up on the running costs put me right off, things like the gearbox and steering rack costs were huge, and every former owner I spoke to at events said "Don't touch them with a barge pole"... They were almost all driving Ferrari 458/488s now. It didn't help that when I dropped in to the Bristol dealership in the V12 Vantage S they couldn't even be bothered to let me in the showroom to have a look at them - there were staff there, but I didn't have an appointment (I'd just picked up the Vantage from a service and the dealership is around the corner) so they wouldn't even unlock the showroom to let me look at one. They didn't even take my contact details, just a 'no'.

Jay, thanks for yet another stimulating and interesting point if view! It almost makes me glad that I can’t afford any supercar at all, considering all the things one asked to think about, and more importantly, worry about. You certainly have stimulated a lot of interesting replies here, which is great for us who are into cars as well as for you boosting your channel.

I think this video and the one about the Porsche GT program does a great service to the community and hopefully the respective manufacturers as well, should they take heed.

You’re videos are so different to anything else I’ve come across on KZfaq. You’re really talking a lot about medium to long term ownership and this I think is where the major differences are to be found between car brands. After having owners a Porsche for the last 5 years, I’ve really come to understand and enjoy the ownership, the club events, the vast selection of good aftermarket parts, the stable depreciation, the simplicity of the earlier cars etc etc. All this matters a lot of you’re really into your cars and want to do more than simply own them and use them as status symbols.

Mclaren isn't interested with people who don't have 20g to spend over the weekend.

I bought a 570S and lost $40k in a year. We parted company when they extracted $2k for an oil change and tried to extract $4000 for a warranty (plus $1k to inspect the car to confirm they would be willing to provide said warranty - on a three year old car with full service history and 4000 miles). They seem to be targeting multi-millionaires.

Really good video. Very informative, and echoes a lot of my own thoughts/experience. Particularly like that the video ended up in a McDonalds car park!😂

McLaren cars are way better looking than my Peugeot 106d.....but my 106 is WAY cheaper to fix.

Thank you! I've been saying all this for ages, and of course that gets you labelled as a "hater" Until the management grasp this. I cant see it changing though!

Sold a McLaren MP-4-12C to buy a new NSX. It was the best decision I ever made because the McLaren though attractive in many ways was an absolute nightmare to keep on the road. I don't care that McLaren honored the $89,000+ in repairs for the 11 months we kept it! Transmission failure/problems, oil leaks, LED taillights failing, instrument panel lights not working, ECU replacement (2X), leaking struts, creaks rattles, electrical gremlins, parts availability etc. etc. etc. Christ what a beautifully designed but horribly executed and unreliable vehicle. The POS like our Ferrari 348 spent more time in the shop than on the road! Getting into an exotic car and having it start and actually be capable of going on a road trip without having to worry about a problem is truly enjoyable. The NSX is far more reliable, great at everything and better than the McLaren (even when the McLaren was working). The McLaren was never a great car but, it was better (even great at) frustrating and completely ruining your driving experience with its constant issues and breakdowns. Never again.

First video I’ve watched on your channel. Great viewpoint, informative and clearly articulated. Just subbed!

Thank you, I enjoyed that. Nice to see Sudbury featuring - took me a few minutes to twig where you were.

Would. Love a supercar one day, oh well happy with my mx5, that's a super car

JayEmm and KZfaq at its best. Great insight and commentary on McLaren’s perceived woes.

I watched a 720s with 4 miles on the clock go for 120k on a auction and you can now buy 12c for 65k in the UK on auto trader.😮

This is a great video. Keep up the good work.

Reminds me of the tvr lineup in the early 2000's all running same engine similar underpinnings

Loved what you said during this video. Makes total sense, thankyou.

I truly agree with almost everything you are saying in this video! Only thing I keep thinking is, yes it is a lot of money, for instance the 3000 pound warranty, or the 1500 pound oil change, however, the cars are selling for 200+ when new, and in that light, you could compare it to a 300 pound a year warranty on a golf, or a 150 pound oil change (at the VW dealer), I don't know if these prices are all right in UK (I'm not from there) but then it does not sound super super bad to me. Again, looking at an oil change amount is absurd of course.. Though, a ferrari or lambo oil change will probably be the same, at dealer?

This is the first video I watched on your channel, great upload.

Cracking video and very interesting.

Loved this video! You keep talking and I’ll keep listening!

Excellent video James. Well presented and balanced viewpoints throughout. Was considering a mclaren however this provides a lot of food for thought. Keep up the great work.

Great video, you've really hit the spot with this style of video, sufficiently in-depth and I want to stay to the end of the 35min. I hope you'll do similar analysis with other makes too, BMW would be an interesting one and I'd certainly have a few pennies to add on the subject of design direction at BMW, I think they're really on the wrong path and are losing the strength of their character... It''s important in videos like this which are essentially constructive criticism one could only hope would be heard by the right ears, to underline that we are all car enthusiasts who love and appreciate these brands, to point out the great achievements, innovations and strengths - you do this so well in the video, I am pleased that you recognised this is important, otherwise one might end up sounding sensationalist... like so many other youtubers...

Great video, very informative. Keep getting tempted to part ex my 991 GTS for a 570 GT but the depreciation, build quality and dealer back up always persuades me to stick with Porsche.

I made it the bitter end and I have to say you presented your points very well. I very much enjoyed your “on the fence” way of putting things across. I largely agree with you, I too don’t want McLaren as a brand to disappear but on the other hand McLaren are the reason I know longer like supercars. They are too common. I remember when it was so rare to even see an f430 but now I see a dozen McLarens. And supercars becoming two a penny takes the thrill away, London is a great example of this! Great video! I think your channel is very underrated.

Onya, as we say that so beautifully down under. Very interesting. You presented it just right, I thought. Cheers, keep up the good work. You deserve a lot more than 25K subs. I hope it'll happen for you. All the best. A

This guy is spot on. The 650s is superior to the 570 and they can't afford to stock a 3 year old car that is 100k down. Who will buy the poor man's edition over the 650S that has taken alot of concepts from the P1. They are digging a hole for themselves.

This guys content is great to either pay attention to and enjoy or faintly listen to it in the background of other tasks. Absolutely fascinating. Cheers from across the pond brother

Hey JayEmm, GREAT video- TY. Yes the depreciation on McLarens and many other supercars and high end luxury cars is due to the emergence of safety features and high tech multi screens now needing to be the norm in the auto industry. That new GLE tech that rocks all 4 corners is in sane. That rear view mirror in the new LR Evouque The side mirrors on the new e-tron SUV from Audi is really cool The dashboard that turns in the Bentleys The dashboard turning to race mode in the 720S Lots of things to have fun with. Just need to win the lottery. All the very BEST from Vancouver, Canada!!

I'm glad perception is more important than reality. For us realists this means we can do our research properly, in depth, listening to all sides and secure the most fantastic true supercar value for money. Bought a 650s spider with warranty, and with Thorney as a main dealer alternative backup. See their 5 million miles in McLarens video and others for a summary of potential issues and costs. EVERY manufacturer produces lemons. KZfaqrs moan louder. I am a fantastically happy McLaren owner and the UK MOG has 500 (mostly) similar and growing. McLaren also finally seem to be starting to listen to this fanbase of used car owners and realising that they have to do more to restrict supply and protect residuals. The future is bright. The future is volcano yellow (or orange, red, etc).

Great video! Really informative and interesting

Great video, it explains a lot of the reasons why more people don’t own super cars and prefer to build their own “super car” to suit their needs.

Masterclass in KZfaq automotive monologue .... I don't know much about the McLarens but interesting piece all the same.

I noticed that repair costs on average for McLaren for all failed or defective parts is around $50K to $70K. That's why people don't want to touch them. QC and reliability is a serious issue. That headache will take away from the joy of owning one. Plus, the cars are not easy to work on and very few shops working on them.

I've owned 5 McLarens lost a fortune on depreciation. This guy speaks the absolute truth very interesting video, McLaren need to hire him lol. Still love the cars tho.

Looks like you were right about Mclaren. They have put their headquarters up for sale last week

great video pal, really informative

Awesome listen and very informative, subscribed.

I own a Hyundai Veloster R-Spec. I'm not in this market by a LONG shot (Hey, I can dream), but just watched three of your videos in full as they were just that well done and interesting. Great content, I'll be back.

Dude, I don't give a flying fuck about cars (here becuz you posted a few times on blu-ray.com a few years ago) but you've got such a compelling presence that I would happily watch you read the phone book. If you were doing these exact same videos about digital cameras (your Alexas, Sonys, REDs and whatnot) then oh boy, I'd have died and gone to heaven. Such a simple style but so effective, too many YT'ers rely on comedy schtick or other gimmicks but this is gold, GOLD I tells ya!

JAY LOVE THE CHANNEL KEEP THIS COMMING LOVE YOUR CONTENT

Good point well made, you're right about Porsche too. Great video

Thanks, great content.Keep Posting

Congratulations on a very convincing warning to anyone about to buy one of these, but please do remember Mr. JayEmm for your next video, brevity is the soul of wit!

The reliability issues totally put me off buying one

Hi JayEmm,I'm not far from you, the other side of Norfolk near Kings lynn. I currently own a 540c and a new 991.2 GT3 Manual. (I started on 911's 10 years ago with a 996 Carrera and what a shame 911's after that didn't keep the noise, it's often not mentioned when comparing it with the later models. Apart from GT3's of course which sound incredible)Anyway, onto the McLaren. The car is brilliant in many ways. The first thing is the general feel of the car. The driving position being so low and sitting so close to the front wheels is the best I've known, it makes my GT3 feel like sitting in a truck afterwards. The hydraulic steering is also very nice, the gear change is tactile, but really outstanding is the suspension. The 911 bumps up and down on our lanes/narrow B roads, whereas the McLaren soaks them up far better, probably down to Lotus engineers I would think. And when it goes around a bend the feels totally flat, again far better than the GT3 in my opinion.The looks are the only thing I don't agree with you on, I love how it looks, and find that so does everyone else. Wherever I go, everyone stares and smiles, takes pic, no negative issues whatsoever. Very different from Porsche or Ferrari etc in my experience.Anyway the noise, it's the weakest point of the car, apart from acceleration from about 4k to the 8.5k redline where it's not bad, the rest of the time it really is very dull and uninspiring. The performance is great but the thing is you want the quality of the noise all the time, this is where the GT3 is obviously magnificent. Like you I've always believe the noise is essential in a sports car, very underrated by some manufacturers, Porsche lost the plot for years on Carrera's until the 991 where they started to work on it again. All the journalists and owners seemed to be in agreement this was the weak point on these McLarens, so I assumed that when McLaren developed the new engine for the 720 that clearly the no.1 priority would be it's noise. What blew me away when I drove it in McLaren Birmingham (apart from the insane speed) was that the noise was quieter and smoother!! It ruined what should have been a cracker of a car.The other bit that doesn't work is the LCD touch screen. I know that this looks very clever and modern, but in reality it is a gimmick, annoying and dangerous. When driving you have to look down at the screen to do anything in which time you're simply not watching the road, it's no different than looking at your mobile phone. This whole idea should be dropped and buttons should be used so you can locate them without having to scrutinise the screen. It also glares too much in the sun so you have to keep moving your head around to see it!Anyway, as far as the maintenance goes, sadly it's been a nightmare. I had dodgy electronic door switches for months and 2 different dealers couldn't work out what was going on, although they eventually worked it out. I also had rust under the front wing, which was replaced by a certain dealer in the North West. They then proceeded to not put it on straight, then the second time scratched my wheel and panel, then this panel wasn't put on lined up, in the end I had the car delivered to me 4 times before it was right. I have to say this was the dealers fault. And now I'm coming to sell it, like you said, I'm going to take a serious haircut on it, I had no idea it would be this bad.So, all in all, a great car in so many ways, blighted in a few key area's. Will I have another one, yes, but I'll be patient and wait until they iron things out a bit.I'd be happy to meet up with you and show this or the GT3 if you're interested.

It’s good that you raised these points which all sound to be on the money, I would not buy a McLaren because of the reputation for depreciation & reliability. I watched this right through - james you’re really very good at these analytical pieces - good work

If you can’t afford a new Mclaren you certainly can’t afford a 2nd hand one. Here in Australia they have a bad rep for sorting issues very bad rep, they devalue heaps but given the rep I am surprised there is a 2nd market here at all.

Oh, there is a 2012 12c at a Porsche dealer with 8000 miles on it for $115000 usd and it has been there at least 3 months. A salesman told me that it is impossible to sell.

I don't know who you are or why you are on my feed but i know that thanks to you i have confirmed my thoughts on McLaren's, their shit!

Had a Mclaren MP4-12C. It had only covered c.4350 miles. Never tracked & was pampered. Reliability awful. Servicing dreadful. 2 months 10 days was the lead time quoted to get the car into service dep't and £7500 quoted to repair a tiny leak (which shouldn't have occurred) at the top of two of the (gas/hydraulic i think) suspension struts. Mclaren B'ham advised all 4 struts would need replacing, they wouldn't replace just the two leaking units! The McLaren infrastructure & support etc is just not up to modern day standards. Needless to say, I no longer own a McLaren.

Good video, analysis of Aston Martin next please.

If you can't afford a £1K McLaren evening then perhaps you aren't really a McLaren customer ;)

Really good thinking on cars, I subscribed. I thought the 12 c was just right why did they change the headlights?

8:08 Visible reasons why a supercar is NOT a good fit for the UK: stuck in traffic; traffic backed up 6 deep at a stop; narrow road, 2 lane, couldn't break the speed limit if you wanted to due to traffic; road conditions just wet enough to float the top layer of road oil and make it super-slippery; gray mist and rain reduces opportunity for sunroof or convertible or fast roads or good visibility; that stop and go driving will wear out a clutch knee in no time. Oh, and getting passed by a jogger? Normal.

I had an allocation for a 600LT but I passed on it. It was too easy to get the allocation and the due diligence I did revealed that I faced a lot of depreciation, expensive maintenance and unreliability. McLaren today is Ferrari in 1983.

So British cars have not improved much since the Morris in quality.

The reality is they are all just revisions of the 12c. The newer cars now how have a much better margain after years of the same tooling and production runs.. That's why mclaren keep claiming a new model name for each revision

Refreshingly objective and constructively critical/ complimentary. Have to say you can talk fluently for an impressive amount of time- had no problem listening through to the end. Nice job.

Nice McLaren rant. I've only ever seen pictures of it, but the Speedtail... Fugly. Even in my lottery fuelled fantasies, I think I'd go for a McLaren, but then I think of the massive amounts of imaginary cash that would be pissed up the wall in depreciation. And then I woke up, yawned, farted and went back to work. Fifteen hundred quid for an oil change! Even if they threw in a filter, and some sexual favours, that would be a tad beyond the pale. Another good job, JM - keep 'em coming!

Interesting. Thank You.

So to boil it down, your main complaint is that they aim super cars at super rich people ... that sort of people that don't really care how much their car will drop in price. Well, can't blame them for that tbh. If they aim at an exclusive club for super rich, then it's their business. You can always get a depreciated R8 or Porsche and have your fun anyway :P

I totally agree with the theme of this video, some manufacture needs to realize that they can dominate sales IF they make maintaining their cars affordable. Porsche has done a lot for themselves by offering 6-year / 100,000 mile CPO warranties for $3000. Also, there are serval option to maintain a Porsche other than going to the dealer. This all helps Porsche prices from falling through the floor. BUT I still feel someone could take a huge bite out of Porsche sales IF they undercut Porsche on purchase and maintenance costs. There are people would want a proper sports car but don't want to spend large sums of money. Curious if the new Z4 and Supra will be those cars...

Very entertaining as usual. I stayed to the end to see if you mentioned what you were driving, which you did. I hope you weren't too near that 4x4. Was that an Instagram logo on one of your camera angles? It didn't seems to start with jayemm...

So true! A real problem for McLaren this issue of depreciation: They have the best cars in terms of performance but the worst in terms of depreciation... This is what has been holding me off going for Mc Laren. I have own Porsche GT3s, GT3 RS, GT4, Lotus Exige Cup 430, AMG GTR. Even the production limited models like the 675LT face massive depreciation.

Msrp229k now you can find them for 90k. In the u.s. Lambo msrp 269k . You can find them for 120k. Pretty similar numbers

Great video. This is the sort of insight I'm subscribed for

I’ve spent the best part of £1m on 3 McLaren’s in the last 3 years. 650 - great car 675LT - out of this world, will be a must have classic 720s - unbelievably fast, amazing package, questionable quality control McLaren customer service - DIRE! Such a shame to not be a true evangelist for them as the product is world class technically, but they still don’t understand they’re road cars first and foremost and they need world class customer support to back up customers expectations.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn’t matter how much you paid for it if you can’t afford to maintain it...it’s that simple

Great point about all current McLaren models being pretty much the same thing, with more or less power and other superfluous options. They could easily use just one alphanumeric designation and offer optional performance packages with it, thereby covering the same ground they cover now but with less consumer confusion and more possibility for service facilities (because the service might become more standardized and parts for only one model with different options might be easier to stock). A year after this video was made, Ferrari are now seeming to go the way of McLaren, with so many differently named variations of the 488, all 2-seater mid-engine V8s or turbo V6s with pretty much the same "look".

My employer will never buy a McLaren again, he says after his 2nd. He is deeply disappointed in the brand. He also said that about his 2 Lambos. Strangely enough, he doesn't say that about his Rangerovers.

Another snow day here in Canada and I'm looking back on a few old videos. I was late coming to your channel but I did watch your friends buying experience with Mc. Just a guess but not much chance of a McLaren loaner (grin) However I do appreciate your opinion on all reviews.

McLarens generally are just walked past and ignored at the local shows and cars and coffees. They don't have the appeal or quality that we expect out of this level of car. They may have performance and high numbers but this is the gauge I see in comparison to say Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, and so on that I see frequently. Now we are in a saturated environment here so it's not rare to see a lot of amazing cars.

You only need to watch a few "salvage/restoration" car channels to realise that these (and most modern supercars) are just a performance engine and transmission in a body that's basically a lash-up of pressed tin, plastic and cotton wool. Make no wonder they are hideously unreliable. I think they are built to go, stop and handle, but certainly not to last.

Apart from the stupid front wheel covers, I actually think the speedtail is the most beautiful McLaren ever (the p1 comes close too) and one of the prettiest cars of our time

Soon be sub 50k ! Really like Mclaren but they don’t have the Lotus / Ferrari fiz 😳 Driven a 540c and a 12c however they both felt a little soulless but quick, bloody quick. If I’m honest on initial impression way better built than a Ferrari.

I swear i knew this would happen, i was hoping it wouldnt though. When you look at the big picture there is really no other outcome to imagine. So sad 😭

Many valid points made here which have been voiced on several occasions to the highest levels of McLaren management. Considering they have been producing cars for seven years compared to the competition at seventy, what they have achieved is fantastic. Despite some alleged opinions, the cars aren't all as unreliable as some make out, but like in a lot of brands, there are always going to be some owners who have had a disappointing car which has been very troublesome. Whilst their total focus is on new models, volume sales and catering for VHNW individuals, they need to recognise and act quickly to support the brand with its older models and reduce the cost of ownership. Not all McOwners have bottomless pockets! But for a driving experience, little gets close.....

Totally agree! In México are around 800-900 Ferraris but less than 200 Mclarens, and, the reason i found is that the agency has a horrible service, even if a person with money wanted a McLaren, he cant because of the agressive personal (this is a real case)

I'm convinced that despite all of the teething problems, somewhere down the road, the 12C is going to be a real collector car. Get all of the known issues resolved and you're golden. Bargain of the century, especially for a Spider which is nearly 50% of the price of a 458 Spider. The 12C is the first in the line...like the e30 M3 for the M3 range. It'll attain legendary status one day.

Do you think McLaren relies on too much electronic gadgetry in their cars which seems to be be very unreliable when they could be using mechanical systems that are much more robust and much more reliable and we'll have longevity as opposed to worn out after 40000 miles and worthless

You were spot-on with your comments. The Senna seems like a tweaked 720s at 3 times the price, the Speedtail is dull looking and has a muddled mission, I saw a 720s parked next to a P1 at a show and preferred the 720 (both are very nice). The rate of superstar intros now is boggling.....what will happen to values during the next downturn?