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Japanese destroyers: everything is too easy, we should fight something harder Something Harder:

This video was surely made because of the recent discovery of USS Harder, in eternal patrol off the coast of Luzon.

Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

When a man says things like "I have to do this" without any concrete reason you know a death flag was raised sky high.

My Grandfather was the Radio and Sonar Operator on the Harder for it's first five patrols. He was supposed to go on the sixth but switched his leave with another sailor. My mom, aunt, two cousins, myself and my daughter wouldn't be here today if he hadn't. He spoke very highly of Dealy but also noted he was very aggressive with his tactics. His stories about the depth charge attacks were very eye opening. He served 20 years on subs but the Harder was the only one he spoke much about. I wish he would have lived long enough to hear the news about it being found.

Christie should have overruled Dealey. Christie knew that with these stunning successes it was only a matter of time until luck ran out. Overconfidence is a silent killer, with ignornance taking front seat. As mentioned, Dealey was becoming too careless with Japanese Anti-submarine tactics. It only requires 1 mistake before its too late. Its unfortunate cause had Dealey taken the advice, he and his crew would have likely survived the war. RIP to Harder and her crew.

It seems that the Wild Weasels are not the first instance of the Americans deciding that when the enemy comes up with a counter to a unit of a specific type, that unit should just try harder.

Walked through the WWII sub SS Torsk, on display in Baltimore, an updated Gato-class submarine. How anyone crammed themselves into that thing, and fought a war, is unimaginable.

Wake up babe, new Historigraph video

Last time I was this early USN torpedoes were still not working

The admiral shouldn’t have let them go out again. The boat had already taken a lot of punishment, and the captain had already done all his patrols. It was the needless endangerment of a crew, and they paid the price for it.

Sam Dealey: "Come at me, bro."

Amazing what fully functional torpedoes can do. Those first two or more years for the USN subs had to have been frustrating and awful.....and angry.

The perfect example of no matter how skilled you are, everyone eventually makes mistakes.

Unbelievably risky. Not sure the crew would have appreciated the Captains quest for destroyers.

Thanks for this narrative, of which I was previously unaware. I am PARTICULARLY grateful to know that the wreck had been discovered just this year (2024). Thank you.

First destroyer: These idiots aren't diving Second, third, and fourth destroyers: Oh fuck, they're not diving

Dealey really should have been promoted ashore. You could see Harders loss coming as soon as they left Freemantle

USS England: _”Okay, let’s roll these dice.”_

I've always been absolutely fascinated with the war in the Pacific, mainly because my grandfather served their along with one of his brothers. His other brother served in the European theater. And I've read many books about the submarine fleet, and Admiral Christie was criticized for the fact that he let him go on that last patrol. I believe after that it was actually put into the regulations that no Captain was allowed to make more than four War Patrols. Because by that point in the war they were getting enough experience captains there was no need to risk guys so many times.

The first destroyer kill sounds like the basis of the movie "Run Silent, Run Deep."

Should've been called The Destroyer Destroyer

It is important to remember that there were other men on that ship beside Dealey who lost their lives. Here are their names: William Gordon Zander Buford John Young, Sr. Leonard Maurice White John T. Swagerty Nelson Spice Lloyd Hammond Sommerschield Walker Neal Snyder Austin Smith Vernard Leslie Sloggett Melvin Schwartz Donald John Simon Francis Xavier Scheibelhut Philip Thomas Sampson Robert Barnwell Roosevelt Mervin M. Rogers Max Myrval Rogers Robert Peter Przybilla Ralph Edson Pratt Richard Semple Pick Elroy Rufus Peck Freeman Paquet, Jr. Larry Anzo Opisso Thomas Daggett Ogilvie, II John William Snipes, Jr. Myles Harlan Murray Roy Benjamin Moss Arthur Bernard Morgan Robert Moore Otto Junior Moore Charles Allen Moffett, Jr. Robert Ray Mills Chester Miller Benjamin Ralph Medley Gordan Keith McWilliams Frank Bartlett McGrevy Ralph Erskine Manning Frank Paul Majuri, Jr. Harvey Austin Lynn, Jr. John Peyton Lonas Samuel Moore Logan Angelo LoCascio Sylvester Benjamin Lilley George Bernard Levin Henry Wilfred Lawson Joseph Melvin Lane George William Lakey James Hubbell Kellogg Roland Wilbur Keckler Roy Edward Jones Daniel Richard James Vard William Hutcherson Earl Verner Hood Hiram Delbert Hatfield Walter Orville Haloupek Daniel John Gully Joseph Lewis Glueckert Robert Lee Gifford Charles Raymond Altherr Robert Orville Baber Walter Francis Beutelspacher Robert Aloyious Blum Wayne Allen Brostrom Sumter Bourg Thomas Wooldridge Buckner Calvin Arthur Bull Vivian Jewell Cash Roland Raymond Chenard Wilbur Lee Clark John Chester Conley Harold Frederick Crask James Edward Cromwell George Eugene Fisher, Jr. Carl Edwin Finney James McKinley Edgar William Vernon Diamond Edwin Warren De Voe Vincent Louis Dallessandro Donald Bernard Dahlheimer

Great tribute to the Harder and its crew.

Japanese Destroyers: exist USS Harder: "I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"

The older I get the more sensitive I become to the casualties of war , the statement of “ with no survivors “ instantly brings images of young children with no father coming home , that being said the Japanese did terrible things during the war , so I suppose you reap what you sow

Thank you for this video. A relative of mine, last name of Keckler, was an electricians mate on the Harder. I saw the memorial to the crew at Pearl Harbor a couple of years ago. So glad the sub was found and final respects could be paid. What an amazing crew. Keep up the great work with your videos!

As I understand it commanders were repalced every 4th partol, because the idea was that they would either get _too timid_ or _too reckless_ to command. This was definitely the latter. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="160">2:40</a> Turning away was a deadly mistake. Taking the salvo head-on gives the best survival chance. Pointing right into the salvo minimizes the surface area torpedoes can hit. And the bow isn't exactly the most critical part. Even if the torpedo get's close, I doubt the fuse would detonate if it started scraping along the hull. But staying on course was probably insanely hard from a psychological point of view. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="255">4:15</a> The chance to hit was still bad. Ships - especially destroyers - don't have a wide profile from the front. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="290">4:50</a> They got it right. A careful manevuer that avoided ramming their bow into Nr. 2. Without driving their aft into 3-6. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="587">9:47</a> That is why you stay on course. The best chance that the entire salvo will just miss. Admittedly, in that animation he barely gave the enemy _time_ to dodge. And if the enemy does not maneuver, you have no real chance of hitting.

Sad. The rear admiral should have insisted on the crew taking time off. Battle fatigue destroys judgement.

Phenomenal video as always, thank you!

Having learned about the submarine war against the Japanese in WWII and how incompetently the Japanese handled that crucial aspect of the war (never developing either the techniques or technologies the US and British developed to handle the German Wolf Pack), one can pretty accurately say the outcome of the Pacific Theater was predestined by the fact that the US had a large and powerful submarine fleet that could interdict and sink the near entirety of the Japanese merchant fleet, starving it of the resources the Japanese Islands themselves lacked and would be needed to fuel, arm, and run the Japanese Navy and Army.

Nice video! Well timed and informative!

Wonderful commentary, thank you.

I did something similar to this in the Silent Hunter games, never knew that this actually was considered by real captains

Always a good day when Historigraph video drops.

I like your videos because there very very detailed thank you for putting in all of that work

"hittem' harder" so cool

Thanks for the video

I love your content! Thanks from Romania!

Incredible!

Thanks so much!!!

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Great story told in a moving way as usual

Japan: too easy we need a challenge The US:

The War under the pacific is a wonderful book that give access to a lot of the surface level information on many interesting patrols by US submariners I highly recommend this to anyone who wants more stories

Great video

Another WW2 banger

The goat upload another vid

Welcome back. 🎉

Small issue I noticed: With LT Commander Lynch's Insignia, you gave him one that's a Commander's (Silver Oakleaf) when it should be a LT Comm's (Bronze Oakleaf). Other than that VERY minor issue, wonderful video, very well done.

Thank you

lovely, new video

was Harder the first to adopt the tactic of charging the destroyer? The Mk 14 high speed is 46 kt. A destroyer is rated for 35kt+ but may be 30 kt with barnacles on hull + some plug boiler tubes. So, a closing speed of 75kt. 3min rule is 100yd per kt, so 7500 yd per 3min, or 2500 yd in min and 800 yd in 20sec. Would be nice to know what the spread angles were. Early in the war, Japan did not set their depth charges correctly. This was told to a reported, who published it. The Japanese got the paper, and passed it on

Amazing story!

There's a little bit more to the change in tactics regarding destroyer attacks. American intelligence had discovered that -- unlike the Americans and British -- the IJN did not have a large program to build more destroyers or tankers. Japan never really got over the idea that it would be a short war. The USN then realized that sinking these 2 ship types would be particularly damaging to the Japanese war effort as there were no replacement ships in the pipeline. The results were devastating.

Very interesting

I don’t know how I would feel being part of Dealey’s crew. Like I’d be proud of all the badass shit but at the same time I’d be like this guy is completely insane.

That <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="360">6:00</a> animation is crisp.

Hubris, then no one goes home.

This captain had balls!

Have you done one on the engagement between the USN Taffy 3 and the Japanese Center Force during the Battle of Leyte?

If you read between the lines of the decision to give Deally an against protocol sixth mission commanding Harder, you see a power struggle with the Captain and the First Officer, who should rightfully take command. The First Officer basically throws him under the bus, but Deally manages to get the get the ship and tactical command of two others.

HARDER/DARTER/PARCHE/TROUT, never in, always out

Submarine duty was one of the most dangerous duties you can do for anyone in WWII. There's many examples of great accomplishments by them from for example the Kriegsmarine and US Navy. But they also had in common high losses. Also, the biggest killer of Japanese Destroyers in WWII were not from surface action, land or carrier based air power. Submarines inflicted the most losses, which was a surprise to me.

I wonder how the rest of the crew felt about doing these extremely risky scenarios that the captain was putting them in.

Both Admiral Lockwood and Cdr Dealey had ships named after them: FF-1064 and DE-1006, respectively.

Reviewing the exploits of the USN Harder and the sinking of 9 destroyers, its ultimate demise was quite predictable, and any blame lies at the feet of Admiral Christy. There was a good reason that captains were rotated to desk duty after 5 missions. All those reasons were being exhibited by Commander Dealy. They don't mention how man depth charging attacks the Harder had undergone, but they mention two that were so severe that crew didn't think the vessel would remain intact. Sinking 9 destroyers in that short of time undoubtedly would lead to a false sense of security, invincibility, and with each successful attack an increase in high-risk behaviors. ADM Christy should have never allowed Commander Deal to command another rotation at sea. The signs of battle fatigue and the stress of daily command had obviously taken their toll on Cdm Dealy. Had Commander Dealy been rotated to shore time, he could have been assigned to the advanced submarine school for commanders where his knowledge and exploits could have been passed onto a new generation of sub commanders. Any of the crewmembers on their 5th rotation should have also been rotated shore side and used at the submarine schools. Instead, all lives were lost along with all there knowledge!

have ever considered joining nebula? I think you'll fit in really well with these high quality videos!

how do you even compute a firing solution for a head-on aspect shot?

The Japanese navy was chronically short of destroyers, literally from day 1 of the war with the US with the attack on Pearl Harbor. The carrier attack force had but nine destroyers escorting the six most valuable ships in the fleet - the six fleet carriers - that launched the air attack. Never enough destroyers to put into their fleet formations, let alone perform escort duty for merchant shipping. The specific targeting of Japanese destroyers by HARDER had an outsize effect on the Japanese Navy's ability to fight its battles with the US Navy as well as maintain its lines of transport within its empire.

The old semi-documentary television series THE SILENT SERVICE features the Harder in one of its episodes. It was a good tv series.

So, only captains get rotated out? Not the whole crew? I would assume its incredibly stressful for everybody on the boat.

Amazing what WW2 American subs can do when they have actually working torpedoes

Of course it helped that American subs finally had good torpedos that werent duds.

Looking at the pic…. It looks like the aft of the submarine is completely missing…. I recall in Eugene Fluckys book “Thunder Below” that he suspected that maybe the sub was lost after a circular run torpedo rather than the result of a failed “down the throat shot” that Harder had by then become known for. Wonder if that is what in fact sunk her, sending her men onto internal patrol.

Wakatsuki was NOT an older Mutsuki class ship...she was a modern Akizuki class vessel. Also, Ikazuchi did her best, but it wasn't enough. (Obligatory DesDiv 6 KanColle reference.)

Can you do a video explaining what were the anti submarine tactics of the imperial Japanese Navy..

Damn that picture3D looks like they really had bad time I think the crew heard the depth change touch the submarine and knew they were doomed I hope we see the inside

The Silent Service tv show did a great episode on the USS Harder.

Was this the ship that inspired Run Silent Run Deep?

Rest in peace Harder

It fought harder than others.

Kind of reminds me of the movie Rin silent run deep

Someone missed a golden opportunity to call Captain Dealy "the destroyer destroyer".

Dealey: Rock Japanese: Paper Dealey: I win

King’s ban on fish usage was silly,as you should trust your subordinates on such usage.

Submarine Destroyer, meet Submarine Destroyer Destroyer Submarine

Did the writer use this in the movie, "Run Silent, Run Deep"?

Wow

Doom music intensifies

Maybe daft punk was onto something "Work it harder, make it better Do it faster, makes us stronger More than ever, hour after hour Work is never over"

“When the hunters became the hunted”

Harder is still on patrol

Jesus what’s happening to me? I legitimately thought this was gonna be about world of warships.

I wish for a day theses animations will be made in Unreal Engine... :D

A smaller boat is a hader target to hit then a larger boat.

Wait til we hear the stories of USS Better, USS Faster and USS Stronger

Destroyers were considered too small, too dangerous and a distraction from the more valuable targets they protect. Dealey recognized that by sinking them there would be nothing to protect the ships they normally escort. Meaning future targets would either be easier to engage or Japan wouldn't risk sending them out in the first place. It was a philosophy that paid off by the end of the war. Sad that Dealey didn't see the vindication of his risks.

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