.32 Winchester SL "becoming influential later" Heheheheh By the way, logcabinlooms has a great video about the repro mags for these rifles that is pretty informative on why they are so iffy, I think.

"And then it turns out it makes no sense, the ordnance department was just insane." That line is gold, perfectly describes basically every arms procurement during war time emergency.

Winchester 1907 additional feature: "The safety plays music when pressed."

Air forces: Adopt the 1907, the FG-42, the M-16 Armies: “What if we want to shoot at something 2,000 yards away?”

To hell with sleep, I'm here for glorious history

They came so close to a modern "assault rifle". I had to go look up the energy of the various rounds. 5.56 x45 - 1300 ft-lbs 351 SL. - 1400 7.62 x 39 - 1500 6.8 SPC - 1600 30 - 30 - 1900 6.5 x 50 Arisaka - 1960. Put a slightly lighter spitzer bullet in the 351 and they were there.

Petition to re-make the cartridge and call it .32 Winchester Self-Loathing.

Winchester: “We’ve practically built our company on your designs JMB. You want more money... get out” Well played Winchester

Regarding use of the Winchester 1907 in ground combat: I am a naval researcher that regularly accesses British archives and I have come across a 1916 proposal to use the Winchester 1907 for ground combat for a very specific operation that was ultimately never carried out: the seizure of Heligoland. The relevant part of the document is as follows: “The operation appears thoroughly practicable if carried out by special troops thoroughly cognisant of the intended operations, and properly trained and equipped. Owing to the size of the Island, it is not to be expected that fighting will take place at anything but fairly close quarters, and therefore light automatic rifles, of say the 10 shot .351 Winchester type, with light ammunition should be substituted for the ordinary Service rifle, thus affording a considerable saving in weight in both weapons and ammunition. Most of the work of clearing tunnels and casemates, etc., should be done with explosive gas grenades, and the men should be thoroughly trained beforehand in two-handed pistol fighting and grenade throwing.” Heligoland at the time was a pure fortress riddled with underground bunkers and interconnecting tunnels. Most of the initial combat by the first troops ashore would be at knife fighting range so the desire for something like the Winchester 1907 is very understandable. An ability to mount a bayonet would certainly have made the Winchester 1907 even more attractive to the planners.

I like it. It's a semiautomatic that has the aesthetic sensibility of a lever gun.

"Friendlier-looking but still effective". The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Thanks for the shout out guys, great episode, love TC Johnson's autoloaders. They're such aesthetically pleasing guns. Looking forward to the next episode! - Matt

When I was a young cop in Atlantic City we had 5 or 6 of those things with no slings but the military type rear sight. Unlike your example, our 10 round magazines were smooth and easy to insert and withdraw. I think that "moderate recoil" is not quite accurate. I remember them kicking like a mule considering their size. When we traded them in I asked the dealer what he planned on doing with them. He said "Eskimos love em… they are great on seals". LOL Great video, thanks.

For the flying part, what if Mae sits at the top of a doghouse?

I actually found all of the talk about ground-use and full-auto claims really interesting. It shows the level of detail you go into and provides a texture to the history.

Loved the vid! My grandfather had one of these and it was wonderful to see someone do a dive on this thing. Your comment about locking open the bolt with that plunger feeling dangerous is spot on. Thing always left me worried it'd drop closed at the worst possible time and take a fingertip with it. I came to mention the takedown. You can get the thing apart more easily by utilizing that massive recoil spring and the weight of the block. You unscrew the takedown screw, then take the grip in hand, depress the cocking plunger about half to 3/4 of the way and let it go. The bolt falling closed will pull the whole thing off the buttstock and trigger assembly part way and let you take the gun apart without fussing with it so much. Hope this helps, and that this message finds you and Mae well. Regards, -- Jason Sexton EDIT: Figured I'd add when dealing with the trigger group and that anvil masquerading as a hammer, watch your fingers. I lost a fingernail to that thing at one point. All springs on that gun are massively beefy.

In the AMC TV series "The Son" the 1907 is prominently featured as are many late 19th and early 20th century firearms.

One of my favorite weapons in Battlefield I, is so nice to use it in any field

Glad to see this one finally come up. I hope the ammo I sent was helpful.

34:52 "What would call for a autoloading carbine of intermediate power?...." That also reminds me vaguely of something. But I'm sure that idea was a dead end in firearms design. :-) Great episode.

The first rifle I ever shot was a model 63. I love the look of these rifles. An elegant weapon from a more civilized age. Thanks for the video. As always, excellent job!

I am simultaneously amazed that there is anyone who actually cares about the super in depth, minute details and information of these old and obscure firearms, and someone who watches and enjoys every C&Rsenal episode. I am so confused. Othias somehow makes this interesting.

A detachable magazine, semi-automatic, intermediate cartridge carbine, which takes down into upper and lower receiver groups, available over 110 years ago? Quick, someone define "common use" for a certain senator from California.

I really appreciate your detail, delivery, care and concern of your program. Thank you.

The pictures of the 15 and 20 round mags available on the internet are always shown on post war police carbines, so those were most likely developed with the intention of police use, instead of being a WW1 request.

I marvel at the academic rigour you bring to this subject while still making it accessible and interesting to general interest viewers. Bravo!

How about Mae on Othias's shoulders chicken fight style? That might simulate use in flight... :)

Needs the bajonet and a rail to attach my spare ZIP 22!

Thank You, Ive been looking forward to this one for some time.

Winchester - "Nobody wants a self-loading shotgun, that's silly." Winchester - The builds 1911SL, worst auto loading shotgun in history.

I own one of these. I used it for deer hunting for years. It was a great brush carbine. I wouldn't use it for long range shooting. It is expensive to shoot, as cartridges are not available anymore. It is fun to shoot. It will fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. I absolutely love this firearm.

competition is a great thing and glad we had so many great designers at the time. also, i can appreciate them not picking Browning's idea for the sporting market demographic they had at the time. In Utah (Browning's home), we still don't use autoloading rifles in general for sportsmanship reasons. You can take anything, but most of us take bolt action for sporting reasons as it emphasizes a good killshot on the first shot.

Yet again, brilliant research. Thanks man.

Awesome video, love the in depth research.

You not only hit it out of the park, you knocked the cover off AИD unwound the innards of it into the next neighborhood. Thank you for your tireless research and awesome presentation style!

been waiting for this episode for a good long time now. thanks C&Rsenal.

I really appreciate the content you work so hard to produce.

Although you showed it in use with Mae shooting, you didn't talk about one built in feature... The safety switch activating the built-in MP3 player. It really was advanced for its time! Edit: Just finished and again, very informative and great job.

Excellent video, I have been waiting a long time for someone to go into the WSL in depth. A couple tips, when breaking the gun down, after backing out the disassembly screw, simply cycle the action a time or two and the mass of the bolt snapping forward will separate the two parts easily. As for recoil spring installing, someplace in my videos I have a step by step video on a simple method that you don't need to be an octopus to manage. The recoil feels peculiar because it's actually double, one from the cartridge firing, followed by the massive bolt hitting the buffer on the end of it's travel. Also keep an eye on the buffer condition, if the buffer washer bottoms out the gun can hammer itself apart, that's what damages stocks. Also the barrel nut is easily removed using the bottle opener on a Swiss Army Knife. I look forward to the next video, but I have to say during the shooting portion my first thought was, good luck finding that brass again. They are notorious for throwing brass far and wide, I don't shoot mine without a deflector to kick the brass down.

I gotta say...y'all did your homework for sure. So detailed. Enjoyed it a lot

As someone who got to fire one of these extensively and jokingly in an amateur 3-gun comp I would say the recoil is comparable to an M1 Garand. The Stiffness in the mag changes and charging pump are a pain but with a lot of practice you dont find them as problematic. The main issue nowadays with the M1907 is finding ammo!

You should read Leonard Speckin’s book on the .351. He shows the tools on disassembling. His research at the Cody Museum took him to develop a reproduction of the factory tool.

Late night gun work while listening to gun history. Pretty awesome.

Excellent video. FYI only the 10 round mags. had to be fitted at the factory, per Winchester's own advertisement. Now I have a question for you that has gone unanswered for decades. Look at the back of the mag. on top & you will probably see 3 dimples. Some have only one dimple, but most that I have seen have 3. What is the purpose of those dimples? To take apart just unscrew the take down screw cock the action & let it fly forward. For a very short time Winchester made a stainless steel barrel for these, just like their .220 swift. That invoice is most impressive. It clearly states Auto, not semi-Auto, meaning full auto which was done by Winchester. The 1907/07 Winchesters were the most expensive production rifles Winchester made at the time & I think they were more than the model 70 too. The metal butt plate was actually quite a bit thicker spreading the recoil out more. The triggers had to be heavy, otherwise they would double or sometimes go full auto. Brassfetcher tested one of my 07's with Remington sp factory ammo shooting into ballistic gel. Check it out. The recoil on these rifles is nothing like I have ever shot before. It's hard to explain, but it's almost like a Browning A-5 insomuch as you feel like it's two recoils. Again thanks for this most excellent video. You probably need to change out the recoil buffer available from Gun Parts, West Hurley. I need to do mine, but I don't have enough hands. These are the best made mags. that I have ever seen. If you will look at the front of the follower you will see that Winchester added a roller bearing. Thanks again.

I got a 1905 35 caliber and it works so fine until today... There is a jerry rig to adapt shells to shoot but works very very fine... Love it.

Aaaaaw yes! Been waiting for this for so long! My body is ready!

Love my M1907SL. Super fun gun to shoot and load for. I like my Model 8's more but the 07 is a classic.

Just bought 1 two weeks ago, thanks for teaching me about it.

I absolutely love this show. Once I'm in a slightly less destitute position I will definitely pledge support on patreon.

Hell I'd much prefer a Winchester 1907 than a 1903 with a Pederson Device. Be kinda cool if they saw more extensive ground use.

Finally! I’ve been waiting for this self-loading rifle!!! 😄😁😆😎🤩🤑

There is a picture I have seen at my grandmas house with my Great Grand father, Grand fathers dad and WWI veteran holding a 1903 in his US steel Security guard uniform. It was taken about 1922. I went looking for it again I could not find it. My uncle got most of the photos I called him he had no look as well. He did remember the photo as well. A neat family story to tell about the gun pictured here.

Another stunner,. thank you.

This was a very interesting episode with lots of information about the .351 Winchester in WWI. I recall that gun authors in the 1960 made the point that this was the time that Winchester "screwed the pooch" in their dealings with Browning. The hodge-pouge nature of its design was very interesting.

Its like an early M1 Carbine, excellent vid as usual

In regards to the Krag bayonet ...... I wonder if the Krags were being used by prison guards (or rail way guards or plant security) and some Winchester self loaders were acquired to supplement those Krags. Adding a lug that fit both would make sense. And it might be the sort of thing that was done by a sub contractor. Just a thought. I could be very wrong.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

That would be nice gun for InRangeTV mud test if magazine wouldn't have these witness holes. Seems pretty well sealed overall.

Yesss!!! been waiting over a year for this one

Im having a bad day (or is that month!) and this was just the ticket to helping cheer me up! Now , just need some time to go for a shot,haven't had my monthly dose yet :(

I've only seen it in reference books. you guys are great, I wish I could afford to support you

If I had a one way time machine, I'd try to become an apprentice of John Moses Browning. I just want to see his whole life.

I don't know what kind of motorcycle skills you have Mae, but id be impressed/excited to see you shoot a moderately recoiling rifle either no handed on the bike or one hand on both, not to mention being in a bumpy field.

the for-ends do break easy, but a new buffer can help prevent as well as being careful to not over tighten barrel which is easy to tighten too much. They were used in the US and Canada for game from aircraft into the 1960s - Have heard that there were some sights for reverse lead on sighting game from air.

The French magazines were kinda common at gun shows in the 60s. But back then the rifles were just another old gun, no collector interest. My dad was a big fan of the 1907s and 1910s and had several. He bought up every magazine he ran across, and I still have a big box stashed away.

Sidecar motorcycle shooting!

I've been waiting for this one. All hail Othias.

Love the history!

excellent story mate. enjoyed as always..carbines are a favourite of mine. semi or auto.

Yes I've been waiting for this I even guessed it in the last upload

"There's a couple features. May I?" That made me chuckle.

I may have siad this before but, looking at the wall behind Othias, oooh! Comblain!

Appreciate no commercials flows much better.

Shooting under "stress" creates the "need " for a "heavier" trigger. It's amazing how much "strength" you gain when under stress.

Outstanding series

I can't tell you what fun it is to hear Othais use the word "bupkis."

Best Intro/outro music on the tube!

Admittedly I'm a fan of this rifle. Usually Pre-war to WWI era guns really don't catch my eye, but this gun looks good. I wouldn't mind owning one.

Seeing Othais crack up is like watching a grizzly beer cub fall over, absolutely adorable!

Bayonets in police service, or more accurately riot control, may not be as outlandish as it seems today. Before teargas and rubber bullets, bayonets and sabres (the latter for mounted forces) were standard tools for dispersing crowds in the early 20th century, as the intermediate step between truncheons and bullets. So, apart from cleaning out old stock, a police bayonet in the Depression might be a bit old fashioned, but not completely off kilter.

21:00 - Aftermarket magazines don't work that well because the magazine catch cutouts are the wrong shape. The magazine catch also serves to drag on the case below it to equalize the pressure of the stack on the bolt. If the mag doesn't allow that to happen, and there is too much friction (grit, long term storage), it will short stroke. Technically longer magazines should work better in general because the pressure on the last few rounds is weaker and less variable than in the case of 5-10 rounders.

To get the spring back in use a string, Logcabinlooms will show you and anvil how it's done. I have one of these 1907 351slr rifles and he makes it easy.

В 70-ых годах,у меня был Винчестер мод.1910 года,калибр .401 (10,18мм.),успешно охотился с ним (на лося).

I worked with a lady back in the early -to mid 1990's who had a 351. She actually bought it to work and let me check it out . They are quite heavy and i was surprised by it. Back then she told me that ammo was hard to get for it and she was paying 50-60 dollars a box. So she said she rarely shot it anymore and mainly kept it because it was a oddity. I have been around guns most of my entire life but hers was the only one I have ever ran across and actually held in my own hands.

I know this is a WW1 show at present. It is why I started watching. Yet, I cannot help but feel anticipation for the M1 Garrand episode. And the G43. And the SVT40. I have an odd fondness for that era of autoloaders. Also, Saint John biography episode when?

The 351 was not that bad a cartridge , after all it compares very well with a .357 Magnum ,and at short distance with a 30-30 ( roughly same bullet weight and muzzle velocity ) ---- And the 401 is very similar to a 44 Magnum out of a rifle .

I am gonna buy a winchester self loader Ine of these days. Along with the model 81 Remington

This thing would be awesome in some more modern pistol calibers. Hell, even a .22 mag or .17 HMR variant would be a very handy gun that could take small game or even medium game with a well placed head shot.

RSC 1917 soon i hope

The level of tongue-in-cheek is strong with this one.

I come for the information and stay for May's smile when she's cleared the shoot.

I love the 1907. I am working on setting up to load 351 from .350 legend brass

I just got my hands on one of these got some upgrades on it. Going take that spring apart.

I own one of these and use 357 rem to make ammo for it. Great saddle carbine in my opinion, it’s a handy package.

Finally... thank you!

Eli McCullough approves of the Winchester 1907.

You mentioned possibly installing a metal shim in the forearm, but I don't think that would be possible, only because the "counter weight" runs very close to the wood. Did you replace the buffer on this weapon? I used very hard rubber for the buffer on my model 10, and seems to work very well! No problems with the forearm cracking.

I've always liked the look of these rifles.

I would love to see a sportsman style show!

Awesome little rifle👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻