Can't deny that, Lannisters did grow with time

I can't believe this "theory" has new "evidence" lmao

@@upchuckles243 Grum loves Glimbus. It is known.

Glidus sends his regards

So Tyrek's warg genes come all the way from Tyland! I wonder at what point did lannisters switch from lions to horses

It's nicely and purposefully left open though. There could be a flashback on a later season where it's revealed what he answered. Could be: "If you don't find Aemond, there will be no payment."

And I think Preston jumped the shark a little bit by saying the show completely absolved Larys. It’s absolutely possible Larys let it happen

​​@@arvaakuka8568They don't need a flashback. They literally say he said a son for a son when they were about to kill Helaena.

​​​@@arvaakuka8568They left it unsaid to avoid spoiling what they were gonna do in the end.

​@@davidmarriott6321They didn't cite Daemon though right? They could be acting on their own at that point. Eh maybe I'm too hopeful.

agree thats a good idea, also it could make Cheese panic and then Blood has to calm him down

When Daemon asked for Aemond first, I thought that was the angle they were going with, that these two fuckups were going to ruin the plan and just kill someone cos they think that’s what Daemon wants when he actually doesn’t. But no, Daemon obviously told them what to do and everyone is as incompetent as they are. What an absolute waste.

That may've been more suspenseful but hard to pull off, could look cheesy

It was really suspenseful as-is, but that would have been fun too!

I think if that was how it was people would be complaining about how the guards let themselves be killed. I liked the social stealth approach they took it's more believable than blood & cheese sneaking around stealth killing guards like it's assassin's creed

Yes exactly. They also asked Daemon what to do if they can’t find Aemond. I assume Daemon told them bring him the head of another son.

Yes, it was very explicit

Also The whole point of Cheese was he was a regular at the castle so they can walk around unnoticed. Daemon wouldnt even had made it to the castle. Thats a ridiculous criticism lol

That's a feature of Preston reviews at least outside of books

@Alphabunsquad Yeah on my second watch that's what I thought happened, Daemon didn't answer his question but it was answered for me when they couldn't find Aemond and they wanted get the job done and get out quick

He looked so miserable after every experience, so I'm not too sure about that 😂

larys dismissed so many people is the only defense I think

I assume that part of the keep require less guards because they would have to go through the heavily guarded throne room - and the king was out of quarters so is household guard followed him. But yea the queen should have needed more troops

Fingers crossed Larys had something to do with it. It was established that he chose the castle staff. If he controls the staff, he can call them off at the right time. Mysaria and Larys may be in league and Blood is passing information about the timing of the plan to Larys.

​@@johnfortune4302was that shown or are you assuming?

@@notsorry4735Larys said it to Alicent when he caught up to her after the Small Council meeting

But they did show where the Kingsguard was...

They were all watching the king in his drunken party and or fucking the dowager queen

Where are they in the book? It's the same logic

In the throne room with Aegon & in the bed with Alicent

Larys is making sure this happened, his spy saw them and disappeared and then the hallway was empty.

why did they even bring the dog? it seems like it was just so they could kick it?

@@chrisrubin6445 real rat catchers use dogs to catch rats? I saw a video of dogs catching rats before so that might be it.

The fact that people are going to be angrier about kicking a dog than beheading a child is what’s the most frustrating lmao.

To blend in better as rat catchers ​@@chrisrubin6445

@@Longshanks1690 humans aren't the best creatures, a lot of people are desensitized to human death. the dog did no harm to anybody just living it's life probably scared of these two men who took it... then it just gets punted for being there. who knows what's gonna happen to it now we'll never know it probably gets found in the red keep and killed. we didn't have to see the child die and jaherys he's basically being groomed by aegon to be a professional asshole in a position of power so i don't really feel as bad about that tbh. ofc i feel bad at a child dying but i would feel worse if it was a truly innocent child dying. jaherys already showing signs of being an uncaring sociopath 😰

He was hilarious, best performance on the show I think

1000%

100% agree. That's dissociation- and not only is it a very real (and very common) response to trauma and danger, it's even more commonly seen in autistic folks (myself very much included- I'm autistic and finishing my second degree, MHC, in psychology). It can cause people to 'freeze,' to seem emotionless, and to act rather quietly (and often bizarrely as well). It's a believable reaction and in my opinion, a good bit of acting. Is it 'typical' or 'Hollywood'? No, not really. But life often isn't.

No, it was not "subtle", it was not there at all. No, she did not show anything with her eyes. You realize that Haelena is the conduit for the viewers here, since we don't really see the kids. If she barely has any reaction the viewer won't either. "But muh autism" - her being autistic does not mean she would not have a reaction. And even if it was, then guess what? She should not have been made autistic. "Muh realism" - truly a hilarious claim that not having a reaction to your kid being killed is "realistic" Anyway, bad take , the entire blood and cheese was pure ass

I don't think people get that she is a bit on spectrum and also clairvoyant. This was established early on, I thought her shutting down was on point. Iv'e seen real people react the same in horrible situations. not everyone will scream their lungs out like people in a Hispanic telenovela

@@IlyaUshar Next time try watching the episode with your TV turned on. She didn't show any emotion at all? In her eyes, on her face, with her words? You are ridiculous.

The actress cooked even though she was given shite for ingredients. I hope they give her more impactful scenes episode 2 without Alicent screwing around in the background.

Yeah, he's gonna project all that anger on everyone else by sword point. Cuz he really is the worst. I was wondering how they were gonna portray one of the most hated men in Fire and Blood. I think they are doing an ok job so far, but they really need to start showing off his sword and war-craft skills. He's a douche, but a highly skilled one. I was just crushing Jamie's audiobook chapters yesterday when Cole came up. It tickled me pink that Loris had no idea who House Cole was.

They could have gotten Aemond if they surprised him by hiding in the walls and ambushing him. I thought that’s what the point of using the ratcatcher was because he knew all the hidden passages.

@@SR-zv5ue Aemond always has his sword and he’s a pretty big dude.

@@sayyidf.b.6378 if Aemond is sleeping it doesn’t matter.

Aemond is a great fighter but that's all we know about him. You're vastly overplaying his abilities, at the moment Criston is the best fighter. People act like that training scene makes him better than Criston...

@@vayne-he9yi I said swordsman. Ser Criston Cole is not a swordsman.

It got the friend I was watching it with too, while I was left totally disappointed. I wonder, are you a book reader? My friend isn't, so I suspect that's why he was shocked while I was displeased.

I wouldn't call it impossible, and saying that is a poor excuse for diluting something that could have been more impactful and, what imo is most important for adaptations, a lot closer to the source material.

I'm a book reader and I thought it was done fine

My boyfriend who hadn’t read the books was horrified when he realized what was happening. He was expecting Blood and Cheese to stumble into Aemond lurking in the shadows who would dispatch them effortlessly or the maid would raise the alarm and then fallout from the bungled assassination attempt. He wasn’t expecting a prince to get killed

I'm coming to accept that. But they better let Pia have her moments and show the grief and horror. No more of Alicent's literal interrupting ass for a scene that does not belong to her.

I didn’t read the book and I was underwhelmed.

In terms of this universe, it has been like 20 years since he slept with Rhaenyra

@@Gary915 Wow! It's been 20 years? I thought it was a lot less than that.

@@xenosaga8436I think at the very least there was a 10 year time jump after they hooked up. 20 years may have been an exaggeration on my part

i hate the part of Helaena, two men said that they gonna decapited her own child and after she offer a necklace she give they the kid, dont try of lie or beg or offer her own life, no, just take the girl, she only care the girl and i hate that, what kind of mother do it that? In the book exist a menace in presence of evil, she offer her life, she beg, but here nothing. Also when she said to Alicent (also attacked with Cole in the scene), Helaena said something like "the kill the boy", OMG, is your fucking son!!!

​​@@nicolaspinto76Seemed like a case of dissociation to me. She's been a mentally disturbed person throughout the show.

@@krissuyx Yea but why did they MAKE her a mentally disturbed person? Thats like me making mc of interstellar an autist and then having him show no emotion. Terrible change to make

@@mysteryboxe9230 Why portray her this way? For the sake of variety. Why not? It's not as if she had some deep, well-defined characterization in the book that the show is altering. She was "pleasant and happy". That's about it.

​@@mysteryboxe9230 because she's not even a real character in the book. Barely any of these people are especially her.

This!

I remember. They weren't afraid to go all the way there. Sometimes by too much. But Ryan seems like a much nicer person and probably doesn't want to compromise his actors. But that might not be the best spin to take when portraying the most horrifying war in Westeros history.

he went real deep with the Yoooooooooksheh accent

I thought he did great, but I'm just a Yankee.

Å😊0f2sø❤ae ÅÅ Nf l9 N xjrm2mm

If you were to list the biggest events of fire and blood you would put Blood and Cheese on that list. It should have been one of the 5 biggest single scenes of season 2 but It didn't even stand out as a top 5 scene of the episode. Really disappointing.

It’s because we know how it ended

@@sansonefabio8177 we knew how the Red Wedding ended, but that was done masterfully. Because they didn’t deviate from the original plan, unlike this where they thought they could do it better or something.

@@YamatoTre red wedding actually did move away from original plan - it took away warg, added Talisa, removed cheesy Jaime Lannister line instead of just lannisters etc.

@@sansonefabio8177 I don’t like Talisa overall, but in that scene she was only a bonus. D&D were better at making small changes to source material, botched ending or not.

The guards would’ve been guarding the entrances I guess, b&c snuck in through a way no one knew about. Didn’t seem like a big problem imo

@@jr1jr2jr3 No you don't have absolutely zero guards outside the room belonging to the queen and heir and the queen mother. That is way too extreme to not notice how that part can be illogical. Absolutely zero guards on the entire floor leading to the rooms? Lmao.

speaking as a neurospicy individual, i wouldn't even say they're overemphasizing the autism. the issue (imo) is that autism can look like many different things! relying purely on a coordinator for "authentic" representation means you're getting a very limited view of autism. some autistic people do 'shut down' emotionally in traumatic situations, but others react with extremely obvious panic/fear. in fact, if they experience sensory issues, it wouldn't be surprising at all to see them basically have a meltdown. and sometimes, you can't even tell the difference between a neurodivergent & neurotypical person. trauma can make anyone act weirdly. basically, it really depends on the person. it's not inherently an issue... it's just weird that they felt they *had* to underplay it. it would've been completely realistic for helaena to start crying or screaming like a "normal" person. i can't imagine anyone saying "well, that's not a very accurate depiction of autism"??? besides, i always thought it was more subtextual rather than explicit representation.

I don't know what you mean by "experience trauma and horror in any kind of normal/relatable way"... what is a normal/relatable way to react to seeing your child get butchered? have you ever seen that, or seen how people really react to seeing such horrors? I thought her reaction to simply run away in fear with her surviving child was an extremely relatable reaction. i wouldn't use the term normal because it's not really a normal situation and i don't think there's a "normal reaction" someone can have to seeing one of their children get murdered before their eyes... people will react in all sorts of different ways to seeing something like that

the whole idea of the way she acts being at all abnormal is just odd to me maybe it's because I'm autistic so to me the way she behaves seems normal... but I find every character relatable in their own ways it didn't even stand out to me particularly that they were trying to portray her as autistic. i wouldn't call the majority of the characters in this show and how they act anywhere close to normal either 😅

@@hinasakukimi yeah, I don't have an issue with the writer's prior depiction of Helena. Like I said, it's actually a really clever idea to hide her prescience from the other characters, but not the audience. But they absolutely butchered the entire Blood & Cheese segment. And that's SUCH a squandered opportunity to set themselves apart from the other episodes, the way that the red and purple weddings did for GoT. And a HUGE reason they botched it was by the choice they made to have Helena react the way she did. It's not just about screaming or not screaming. It's about pissing away their own momentum. They set themselves up for a PERFECT payoff earlier in the episode when she said she was afraid of the rats. I have a feeling that everyone who knew the story got a chill down their spine when she said that. Like "omg this is going to be absolutely brutal!" The two most prominent things about her character is that she has the sight. Which the audience learns from these snippets throughout the series. Secondly, that Helena is neurodivergant. And the third thing would be that her family ignores her because the things she says do not make any sense to them. So we, as the audience can be "that guy" yelling at the screen, "don't go in there!!!" at the horror movie. A great suspense building effect. And of ALLLL the ways they could have paid that off in this key scene... They chose (sadly) her silence and compliance with the (sadly) confused men coming to kill... uhh... her "heirs". (I don't want to get this comment auto deleted). I mentioned the most obvious payoff of her accidentally putting the idea in their heads. Where we realize she could have saved both kids if she said nothing and just told them the room where their original target could be found. Oh, the guilt! But she saw this in her nightmares. And couldn't help but scream "don't make me choose!!" 😭🙏 And maybe an obvious follow-up of "Spare my children! Take me instead!!" And THEN she gets Sophie's choice'd. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with a silent scream there. Terror so overwhelming that no sound escapes for a whole minute. And then the delayed sound of absolute horror, heard from outside the keep. And the snap-cut to several characters becoming extremely alarmed by the sound, and rushing to find her holding her late son. Covered in a horrifying amount of blood. Catatonic. I mean, it's screenwriting 101. But that would have been an unbelievable improvement over what we got. The 2nd most hyped scene in the storyline. What's next? The "dragon fight" next season just turns out to be an accidental mid-air collision. Where "someone" happened to crash into the ground with "someone else's" sword in their eye?? A total accident/historic misrepresentation, like Brad Pitt at the end of Troy? Silliness.

@@Lin_Eileen mothers are extremely hard wired to do anything to protect their children. It's the only reason we exist AT ALL today. There was nothing presented by the story so far to suggest that Helena didn't possess that wireing. Quite the opposite in fact. The scene was just written terribly on every level. Especially when they already had a fantastic version locked n loaded, and ready to go. Which was my point... They had to find a way to consciously and intentionally screw it up. My guess is the authenticity coordinator. Someone trying to stand out by burning something down that was already extremely valuable to the fans. Someone trying to prove their worth by doing too much. It's a tale as old as time called "too many cooks in the goddamn kitchen". And they did everyone a disservice by allowing someone to be so foolish with George's work... AGAIN. So dumb. And they certainly weren't doing the autistic community any favors here. If that's what they were even going for. Who knows... ,🤷 Fail. A total and utter failure.

I want the tea

Yeah it was just okay

it was a bit meh

Lol no they didn't. Relax

@@PsilocybeJedi Yeah, after more reflection, not ruined, just a bit rushed and nowhere near what it could have been.

@@YamatoTredefinitely rushed

Haha shit Cheese does look exactly like Gren, good catch

Poor Gren. People have kings, children of the forest and dragon lord's for ancestors. Gren has a notorious baby murderer.

thats a good point. the way it is portrayed in the show it's like they didn't even want to find Aemond which maybe is actually true? maybe if it's actually a Larys plot he didn't want Aemond to die so he could have made sure he was gone when everything went down. the time of everything isn't clear but I did find it odd how where Aemond and Otto were speaking was just deserted minus that servant who i think is a Larys spy who didn't even try to expose Blood

What was different?

It’s a little better but I still feel they don’t have a very good grasp on that character maybe it’s the actress all the scenes she is in never land with me

In the first season she had a wierd jamacian/ louisana accent like the witch woman from pirates of the caribbean its a bit better now

@@JDBK01 I wouldn't say Jamaican. But the little that I heard on that first watch didn't sound that noticeably different from season 1. I think that her character is probably meant to sound like either somebody from Essos or Dorne. I don't mind it.

i admire them trying to come up with a "fantasy accent" that doesn't sound immediately recognizable. but yeah. sometimes it's just better to go with a real-world accent lol

For a "superfan" Carmine never really seems to have a great grasp on what's going on most of the time, at least with Ice and Fire stuff. Which is a real shame because Preston does much better when there is someone that can keep up with and challenge him more.

@@TortssMacKenzieDid he read F&B?

​@Flammewar he did but like a lot of fans he probably only read it twice, at this point I only vaguely remember that book

It's you again! The guy who got called out by Presty! i missed you! Lets break this down and I hope you don't mind if I use this comment in my video's Q&A: Most of the people who watched it thought it was brutal, only book fans complained. Book fans are *not* the main audience for this show, hate to break it to you. “PrEsToN, wHaT wOuLd YoUr RaTiNg FoR tHe EpIsOdE bE?”....yeah? Did you expect everyone to have the same opinion as you or is that what your mom told you to expect?

@@Flammewar Nope. I don't know how to read

It really was boring. I was very surprised

She acted her ass off even though they gave her nothing to work with.

Larys had just dismissed all of the household staff and replaced them with his own creatures 🤔

@@jessjess23brooks89 might be. household guard are unrelated (in ASoIaF generally) to ladies-in-waiting managed by the castalin or lord's second-in-command so a levy is ready. It *could* be they are mostly stationed on the walls, expecting an event dragon's attack.

Moles town is well inside the gift. People in the gift pay their taxes to the Nights Watch instead of the Starks. Its not that much of a stretch for the nights watch to pay a small stipend to the men to "service their equipment", especially when it comes to officers. In other words, Moles Town pays the Nights Watch for the Moles Town girls.

@@nebuloushammer8773 I think given their position, and if we're adhering to the ideal if what the Knight's Watch is supposed to be, it doesn't make sense for them to get any wages. Servicing their equipment, in the literal sense, would be done by bringing their sword to the blacksmith. It's not a very comfortable life but everything they need would be taken care of by the military elements of it, with no shore leave. The gift certainly pays taxes to the watch, but the only people who ever have any reason to actually handle the money would be the steward responsible for imports/ exports and anyone they send south for recruitment or diplomacy.

Four Kingsgaurd have defected to the blacks. That leaves Criston as commander. Arryk ( or Erykk, I honestly have no clue which one lol), and the third is Willis Fell, I believe. Other Kingsgaurd get named throughout the war, but Aegon never had a full living seven. So Arryk is patrolling the ramparts for dragons, Willis was guarding Aegon's drunk ass and Criston, well. In books, b&c do kill the guard in front of Alicent's room. But if Larys is behind dismissing extra guards, that would be an excellent narrative decision and be quite the twist.

So every character is just 1 dimensional with only 1 defining trait? Yes aegon is a rapist, he’s also exploring some different traits as King, how does that mean his character development is backwards. And what resistance is Helaena meant to give, scream out loud when they will then just kill her and the other child as well?

i think he also craves approval

@@hinasakukimi Yeah, there are some vibes of Homelander discussing EBITDA

Aegon isn't a psycho.....Aemond is.

Definitely cross cutting between the three with escalating musical tension would have been magnificent. Oh they could the use light of the seven song.

exactly. the build-up they had for the laenor/rhaenyra wedding in S1 is what they needed here, basically. the payoff might've been stupid but in terms of building suspense, it worked well.

I genuinely don’t understand how it’s meant to be impactful in the first place. What difference does this make to the plot? Red wedding = north wiped out. Purple wedding = Baratheon succession crisis. Oberyn’s death = Dorne becoming the enemies of King’s Landing. The death of some child whose name I don’t remember? No idea why this is considered one of the great violent twists of ASOIAF.

Exactly, it was an insane decision to take away the most impactful part of Blood and Cheese

@@adashofbitterthey did murder the heir, but I agree this wasn’t anything remotely close to the red or purple wedding

I wish they would have depicted a bit of that. The set has her walls and notebook covered in cryptic, creepy premonitions. If we could have seen some of that, her reaction wouldn't have been so... Jarring? Odd? I struggle to explain it.

I just came to the part where Preston is being attacked for calling Helena a robot. How the tables have turned. It's hilarious.

That was amazing you're crazy

@@SuperCrow02 How was it amazing? It was super watered down compared with the source material and even if you just judge the show on its own merits, the sequence didn't make any sense. Not to mention the fact that there was zero emotion, very little tension, and the whole thing just felt awkward and rushed. Just as a TV sequence it was very weak, and as an adaptation it was abysmal.

@@MarkHogan994 and all guards were on vacation that evening

​@@MarkHogan994 absolutely correct, they should have stick to the book scene, it was amazingly written in the books

Absolutely spot on. Way off the ball. Blood & cheese was butchered.

"D&D would have done the scene justice." bro....

​@@hinasakukimiby the end of HOTD, you'd have wished Dumb and Dumber were running it.

@@notsorry4735 we do not under any circumstances have to hand it to D&D

Hey now don't say things you can't take back.

@hinasakukimi hotd writers would have found a way to underplay the red wedding probably. D&D were good adapters in the day, that's why GOT became successful

Because it's too massive to use in a daily capacity. It takes two people to unsheath the damn thing. Now, perhaps a person could theoretically fight with it if they were incredibly strong and even moreso fast. But they better have their squire constantly handy and that squire better be really good at his job, because one person could not physically take it out of the scabbard.

Yeah I thought that was super weird too. Like there’s this crazy easy way to figure out which one is the son

@@Gary915 they literally mentioned that in the show i think they just didn't want to cause any commotion by undressing them

@@Lin_Eileen lol murdering babies is fine just don’t look at their genitals

If one of the had been Larys that would have added something to it… but even now hearing about what it was in the book… it’s not THAT big of a deal. How many people have died in ASOIAF and Fire and Blood? Why is this one death a big deal? It doesn’t have any major impact on the plot - not like wiping out the north had with the Red Wedding. Feels pretty weak given what we’ve come to expect.

it’s a lot more emotional and traumatic in the books.

Side note presto was a typo but can we make that a thing for him

Except they didn’t adapt like 70% of feast for crows or dance with dragons

Because it would be like your boss asking you to start baking goods, so you start sh*tting in baking pans instead of getting flour. The stuff D&D wrote was embarrassingly bad for professional writers. It was like a child wrote it. AND they refused to hand the show off to someone else. They insisted on getting credit for the show. Instead they got the blame. They 100% deserve all the criticism they get.

Except NO they had several books worth of material and they just chose to do their own thing. They didn't run out of material they straight up started making shit up mid season 4

They could have passed the show to people that can bake from scratch instead of remaining in the kitchen and ruining the product!

I didn’t have a problem with her reaction. But because we, the audience, are seeing it from that perspective - and the average audience member would react very differently to the way she did - it did feel like it was undercutting the emotional impact of the moment.

Massive headcannon cope my guy. Haelena truly did not give a fuck.

Bro... B&C needed a boys head. The boy was always going to die.

Maelor is only superfluous if they are refusing to depict another aspect of the story. Which I wouldn't hate. I could handle B&C. I cannot by any means handle what happens to Maelor.

@@jessjess23brooks89 Maelor will eventualy join i think. The Showrunner said that Maelor was 'not yet' there. So I assume he's joining the cast.

Lmao what "realism" are you talking about it? the entire sequence was absolute trash The choice is nominally there, but it is not treated as such it is more of a confusion.

@@IlyaUshar read.

You're asking Daemon to suddenly lose like 95 IQ points and do literally the stupidest thing in the entire world. "I just don't get why!" Come on.

@@ChainedHunter what would you say Damon's IQ was when he charged, alone and without a helmet, an enemy position covered in archers?

@@MrSilvUr higher than your stupid ass idea.