How A Brick & Rock Battery Is Changing Energy Storage

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Жыл бұрын

How A Brick & Rock Battery Is Changing Energy Storage - Explained. The first 100 people to use code UNDECIDED at the link below will get 20% off of Incogni: incogni.com/undecided. Grid-scale lithium ion batteries are our current go-to chemical energy storage solution, but they present their own challenges in safety, sustainability, cost, and longevity. However, the competition is … heating up. New forms of thermal energy storage systems built using abundant, cheap materials are on the rise. One company is aiming to sidestep the complications that come with chemical batteries…with a brick battery. And another company’s weapon of choice is a crushed volcanic rock battery. Talk about going back to basics to store massive amounts of energy. But is simple really best?
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Пікірлер: 1 500

@UndecidedMF Жыл бұрын

Do you think storing heat is a smart move? The first 100 people to use code UNDECIDED at the link below will get 20% off of Incogni: incogni.com/undecided. If you liked this video, check out Solar Panels Plus Farming? Agrivoltaics Explained kzfaq.info/get/bejne/os2Kdc91krqndnk.html

@WSmith_1984 Жыл бұрын

Do you know what would have been a smart move, developing and investing these technologies over 100 years ago when these ideas were first brought to market... unfortunately the world went with oil, and we've fought to the death for it ever since.

@Ryanrulesok Жыл бұрын

I think storing heat is a good idea but it's so early in its stage of development to say if it is worth it or not

@LinXnerd Жыл бұрын

That's the kind of news that makes my day. Thanks for all of the research that you do.

@cranberryeater7459 Жыл бұрын

I solved the riddle… Uranium

@slcpunk2740 Жыл бұрын

If they need 1600° to make steel, couldn't they just use the battery to get the first 1500° and then burn something for the last 100°? Seems an easy solution to avoid almost 94% of the emissions.

@rondoenergy4228 Жыл бұрын

Hey Matt, we appreciate the spotlight you're putting on thermal energy storage! Thank you for including us in your video.

@KlaudiusL Жыл бұрын

Nice to see you're tackling energy store with a different approach. Well done guys!

@johnnajera9659 Жыл бұрын

As children, many of us would use a magnifying glass to set paper on fire. With a tracking system to follow the sun, would it be possible to use this energy (paper burns at 454 farenheight) to heat your bricks, or boil water to produce electricity for your system to use?

@rondoenergy4228 Жыл бұрын

@@johnnajera9659 Hi John -- fond memory! So some companies use concentrated solar power systems to generate both thermal and electric power. While these systems have many upsides (including being zero-carbon technologies), there are some limitations. Two big limitations are related 1) it requires a lot of space to deploy concentrated power at scale, and 2) when you do find the space, it's often not located directly next to the facility that requires heat, and it's very difficult to transport heat over distances -- it results in a lot of energy loss. An electric thermal energy storage system like Rondo's uses electricity is very energy dense and can be located within an existing facility -- right where the energy is needed. This is because it's very easy to transport electricity over distances with almost no loss. For these reasons (among many more), it's actually lower cost and lower impact to generate heat using electricity from photovoltaics and wind turbines with an electric thermal energy storage system.

@johnnajera9659 Жыл бұрын

@@rondoenergy4228 It might be interesting, small scale to have concentrated solar to boil water for steam turbines. Steam may be poised for a comeback.

@LinkWrayisGod Жыл бұрын

@@rondoenergy4228 When are you coming to my country? 🤣. Closing nuclears because of politics, and planning around 80 MW renewable energy. Volcanic high-enthalpy areas under investigated, and electro intensive industries such as aluminium closing because the LNG price rises.

@jopo7996 Жыл бұрын

It will be interesting to see how the brick battery stacks up against the competition.

@strandedpaki Жыл бұрын

😂

@Demy26 Жыл бұрын

🏆

@UndecidedMF Жыл бұрын

You're on fire with the puns/dad jokes.

@HenryGertcher Жыл бұрын

Ok take my thumbs up. Good puns deserve recognition.

@daithomas9859 Жыл бұрын

Looks like the competition may have hit a wall!

@johnbeeck2540 Жыл бұрын

During the 1970's my Wisconsin neighbor designed a combination thermal solar and storage system using cans of distilled water in modular cabinets. The solar heated air was passed through the modules storing the heat for use later. Simple and effective.

@oversmart77 Жыл бұрын

I also love the idea of having multiple solutions working in parallel to reduce carbon emissions. As someone mentioned, it's not about finding the "best" solution, but rather the right solution for the application. And the potential for TES systems to capture and store waste heat from manufacturing processes is really exciting. It's great to see these kinds of technologies being highlighted in videos like this. Keep up the great work...

@digiryde Жыл бұрын

Storing heat is a truly ancient and practical heating method. People used to put stones in the fire to heat them up during the day while the fire was in use for other things, and then over night the stones would release the built up heat to keep the area warmer. This is very similar to using heating inside a concrete floor. Heating the concrete up, it helps keep the heat more stable in the environment. Using a material as a heat sink really helps balance temperatures during the 24 hour temperature cycle. This is one of the reasons I love brick and stone buildings.

@oxylepy2 Жыл бұрын

It gets even better when you create a solar barrier during the hotter times that lets light through during colder periods to store heat from the sunlight. If you really like it cool, you can just build underground for a fairly stable temperature

@runed0s86 Жыл бұрын

This is why large stone mantles exist. Also, in old homes, the rocks heat up and the heat spreads through the rock walls.

@spookymunky1 Жыл бұрын

@@runed0s86 yeah, why here in the uk with every summer bringing new record breaking heat waves are even more torturous 🥲.. Most of our houses were built to store whatever heat that is gathered through the day into the night but when the heat continues we end up literally baking in our own tiny brick ovens.

@Greenberet. Жыл бұрын

True, even star trek use their phaser on rocks to heat them up on some episodes...LOL

@pigmentpeddler5811 Жыл бұрын

@@spookymunky1 it prepared me for visiting a friend in the states when his AC was broken

@jasonbroom7147 Жыл бұрын

In terms of residential energy consumption, roughly 20% goes to creating hot water and more than 40% goes to heating the space in your home. This means any system of energy capture and storage, on a significant scale, could meet about 60% of annual residential energy needs in the US. All of a sudden, hot rocks sounds like a great idea!

@onegreenev Жыл бұрын

Residential heating is nothing compared to what industry needs. The residential population is not bad guy here.

@mrdanger4851 Жыл бұрын

Better Insulating Materials have to be discovered this would Exponentially increase efficiency!

@Certago Жыл бұрын

@@onegreenev no bad guy on either side, just better and better renewable solutions for our energy needs, I love it!

@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Жыл бұрын

@@Certago You have no idea what you're talking about.

@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Жыл бұрын

@@mrdanger4851 So you left out the word cheap. The world doesn't need $2,000,000 closets.

@brenmillerenergy343 Жыл бұрын

Over 20% of global emissions comes from industrial heat. This is an untapped market. Thanks Matt for this great piece!

@Monkey-Epic 6 ай бұрын

fact check this : Over 20% of global emissions comes from industrial heat. ChatGPT The statement that over 20% of global emissions come from industrial heat is not entirely accurate, as the percentage varies depending on the source and the context: The International Energy Agency (IEA) notes that about 50% of total heat produced is used for industrial processes. This figure, however, does not directly translate to a percentage of global greenhouse gas emissions. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) reported that in 2010, emissions from electricity and heat production accounted for 25% of global greenhouse gas emissions, and emissions from industry (which would include industrial heat) were 21%. A study referenced by ScienceDirect estimated that in 2016, about 21% of global CO2 emissions resulted from the generation of industrial heat. The IEA also indicates that industrial heat makes up about one-fifth of global energy consumption and predicts that it could account for a quarter of global emissions by 2040, suggesting a growing trend. The U.S. Department of Energy mentions that industrial heat accounts for about 9% of the entire U.S. emissions footprint. While these figures highlight the significant contribution of industrial heat to global emissions, they vary and do not specifically confirm the claim that over 20% of global emissions come from industrial heat. The actual percentage depends on various factors, including the scope of the data (whether it includes all greenhouse gases or just CO2, for instance), the year of the data, and regional differences.

@raze1570 4 ай бұрын

amazing idea and product, definitely will and needs to be done on a larger scale

@bretthaddock8954 Жыл бұрын

I have been very interested in TES systems. I think these would also be great to capture and store heat from manufacturing processes. Once companies realize waste heat is a commodity to be used or sold you will see more buy in. Love your detailed but understandable explanations.

@mrfatuchi Жыл бұрын

I think that will be a huge selling point for these. Just imagine an industrial plant capturing its heat in this and then converting it to electricity for its own needs and also putting it back into the grid while also having some solar panels and wind turbines to charge another one of these... This could potentially take care of 30%-50% of our electricity usage if done properly.

@Dawindell Жыл бұрын

Underrated comment right here :)

@Knights_of_Zurg Жыл бұрын

Different applications have different ideal solutions. It's not a matter of "is this the best idea" it should be "Is this the right solution for the application." Multiple solutions working in parallel will help solve the overall issue of reducing carbon emissions, and I'm excited every time you showcase solutions, and showcase some of the best applications for it. Very well-done videos.

@zibbitybibbitybop Жыл бұрын

Exactly, this type of long-duration, slow-release storage is perfect for usages that never require rapid heat input anyway. There's no one perfect tool for every job, we need multiple tools to cover many types of jobs.

@adoatero5129 Жыл бұрын

- "It's not a matter of "is this the best idea" it should be "Is this the right solution for the application."" Realistically, what the potential buyers are looking for is "the best solution for the application".

@BUCURPOPA Жыл бұрын

Even if it can't get to the 1600⁰C for now, by heating the ore to about 1000⁰C, it means that the electric or fossil fuel component, only has to make up a gap of 600⁰C instead of the whole range from ambient to 1600⁰C. And that would still be a significant reduction. As fara as the tobacco plant is concerned, they most likely need hot air to control the humidity in the tobacco leaves they'll be using. This tec has great potential in all kin of heating applications from residential to industrial!

@redsquirrelftw Жыл бұрын

I'm thinking you could also use it to generate steam to run a turbine which could then power something like an induction or arc heater, which could then go higher. There would of course be an efficiency loss there but if the power that went in was originally free or very cheap, it might still be worth it.

@Rig0r_M0rtis Жыл бұрын

@@redsquirrelftw It's never free and the steam turbine setup would probably be more expensive than an electrical battery.

@redsquirrelftw Жыл бұрын

@@Rig0r_M0rtis At industrial scale the steam would end up cheaper. Just look at how EV prices keep going up. They are running out of material to make batteries.

@Rig0r_M0rtis Жыл бұрын

@@redsquirrelftw EVs have very specific requirements when it comes to batteries. But why do you think coal power is so expensive? It's not because coal is expensive, it's the whole setup with hight pressure and moving parts that can't economicaly stand up to solid state photovoltaics. Burning electricity to make steam to make electricity does not make sense.

@ibubezi7685 Жыл бұрын

@@Rig0r_M0rtis Kinda like burning coal to make solar panels and steel trubines to generate power... (and: 'burn electricity' ???)

@davidmurray6176 Жыл бұрын

In the 70s, as a kid, we would put bricks on our wood burner and at night would put at the end of our beds to keep us warm. It worked perfectly during cold winter nights..

@m_mitch Жыл бұрын

Thermal storage was introduced to Australia about 50 years ago. Then, it was called "Heatbank" and used cast iron as the storage material. Then used a small fan to distribute the heat.

@Fabian3331234333 Жыл бұрын

We had that here in Germany too. It was called Wärmespeicher and it was pretty popular in the 70s and 80s. Don't know why they disappeared

@peterkotara Жыл бұрын

In NZ many power companies offered "Nightstore" heaters which heated a mass (I thought it was ceramic but I might be wrong) during off peak and released it on command/timer. 1970s I think.

@dustman96 Жыл бұрын

Thermal storage was introduced thousands of years ago all over the place.

@pauldietz1325 Жыл бұрын

The Open Hearth steel making process uses firebrick for energy storage, capturing the heat from gas escaping the furnace, then flowing air through that brick to preheat it.

@RobQuinney Жыл бұрын

@@peterkotara I've currently got one in my flat (apartment/condo) in the UK (Wales). They are a horrible means to heat your home if you aren't organised or happen to go away from home overnight. Modern ones probably have timers built in though.

@chrisconklin2981 Жыл бұрын

There is also the issue of storing cold. There once was an industry based on cutting ice from frozen lakes. These blocks of ice were stored in sawdust and in the summer use to renew the ice in ice based refrigerators.

@chrisk8208 Жыл бұрын

I agree. While heat pumps have proven efficiencies, I'd like to see a cost benefit analysis of bringing lumps/bateries of cold stuff to warm places (or places that need cooling in the summer), in order to fill their "heat pipes" with something that can alleviate the energy costs of those there, during warmer months.

@chrisk8208 Жыл бұрын

That said, hot is easy and has limits placed only on containment ability. Cold stops at absolute zero and is, by orders of magnitude, less than hot.

@Karjis Жыл бұрын

in Helsinki, Finland there are several big underground tanks / pools to store cold water. That water is chilled passively with sea water during winter and heat pumps are used during summer. Hot side of those heat pumps is pushed to district heat piping, mostly used for hot water during summer but of course some locations need a bit heat also during summer. And yes that cold is distributed around city as district cooling for cooling offices and homes. Storing the cold water also helps with midday sun as heat pumps only need to be powerful enough for 24h average, not for the highest peak cooling demand during afternoon.

@JGnLAU8OAWF6 Жыл бұрын

Look up Ice storage air conditioning

@robertromero8692 Жыл бұрын

Cold per se cannot be "stored", since it's not a quantified physical property. You can store cold matter.

@glassblastcollision Жыл бұрын

This process could be made even simpler by using lenses to focus sunlight on the rock directly and increase insulation for heat loss.The more insulation the more efficient the heat battery. I run a gasifier that runs on wood pellets and is installed in a metal box full of sand which is then insulated with 4 inches of foam.I gatther the syngas to run a generator and run a gas kitchen stove and the heat lost is gathered in the sand mass and is used to heat my home. When availible I use gras clipins and leaves that have been pelletized to run in the gasifier. The pellet machine is run by the generator.

@Dancing_Alone_wRentals Жыл бұрын

A very fun video to watch,....tHanks to the whole crew which put it together!

@HobbesNJoe Жыл бұрын

13:06 For higher temperatures a steel manufacturer for example, might use a heat battery to recover heat from cooling finished materials and preheat raw materials. At lower temperatures, a different manufacturer could also incorporate heat pumps to improve waste heat recovery.

@maxgood42 Жыл бұрын

I like that idea also say if a sand unit was say 10000 units in volume at 1000f then could this be converted using Peltier to induction to heat up say 1 unit of steel the efficiency ratio may not be that great but if we are talking about free sun and wind energy then its a total win...???

@wobblysauce Жыл бұрын

And reducing the total power, not just about replacing it.

@billsemenoff Жыл бұрын

Just pump hot air from the equator into the homes closer to the polar regions, and pump cold air back as free air conditioning in the patched climates

@Rig0r_M0rtis Жыл бұрын

@@billsemenoff duh right?

@billsemenoff Жыл бұрын

@@Rig0r_M0rtis we already know Elon musk like digging tunnels, we just aim him at this project, I'm sure he'll get the government funding for it and even solve a few technical wrinkles. Polar-equator HVAC tunnels for all!

@marcberm Жыл бұрын

We get too hung up on the various forms energy takes. Energy storage is energy storage. Whatever we can do for an appealing mix of cost and efficiency is where it's at!

@Grandpa82547 Жыл бұрын

Agreed! When the alternative is loosing energy for lack of storage capacity, then 20% is much better than complete loss.

@marcberm Жыл бұрын

@@Grandpa82547 Exactly!

@hell5fire974 Жыл бұрын

The biggest issue with thermal storage is typically the same with gravity storage, the volume of materials you need to store an appreciable amount of heat is usually ridiculous and impossible to do at any scale.

@sephreed1938 Жыл бұрын

Not the same at all. The amount of heat that can be put into a single atom it much more than its weight.

@creeperizak8971 Жыл бұрын

@@sephreed1938 Yeah, theoretically you could pump so much heat into a rock that it vaporizes if you wanted to, though it wouldn't be very useful in that state XD

@donaldhobson8873 Жыл бұрын

A drop of a kilometer roughly translates to a temperature change of 10C. So unless the drop is really big, or the heat is slightly warm, thermal does way better.

@jonathanpfeffer3716 Жыл бұрын

It’s almost like any one single storage method will never be sufficient for our uses and that we need multiple.

@fabianfeilcke7220 Жыл бұрын

For home use, yes. For industrial use, not really. If you build a thermal battery 3m tall under a typical industrial building of 200*150m, you got an 80.000kWh thermal storage under your feet. Make it parking lot-sized an you get several MWh. The point is that the thermal storage material is cheap or might even be free as garbage material from the construction site.

@lauramarks7411 Жыл бұрын

In the mid-1980’s New York Electric and Gas (NYSEG) gave away brick heat storage units to private customers. Their incentive was to help even out the electric production by having the heat storage powered at night during off-peek electric consumption. Our electric bills dropped dramatically by shifting our heating costs to nighttime electric. The unit was clean, quiet, and efficient. I’d like to see them produce a brick hot water tank. 😊

@KerrikkiLurgan Жыл бұрын

This is the heating system I have had for 30 years. It does get pretty cold here and you know our heating season is from October to April

@jessegriffin9 Жыл бұрын

Next video. How a human body can be the future of Battery.

@strandedpaki Жыл бұрын

😂

@03samjon1 Жыл бұрын

…And after that how blinker fluid is used as the next best electrolyte

@sevenflashowls Жыл бұрын

We have a lot of methane

@darkhorseman8263 Жыл бұрын

If they study NQO1, quinones, and mitochondrial dynamics, you'd be surprised the type of advanced bio mimetic battery we could build.

@kelzuya Жыл бұрын

They covered that in The Second Renaissance episode.

@KoenvanGorpAstronomy Жыл бұрын

I bricked my battery suddenly got a new meaning...

@jsat2011 Жыл бұрын

Killer summary Matt. The discussion on industrial applications is especially welcome - such a huge source of decarb potential!

@josephsanders7856 Жыл бұрын

This is yet another solution to use to store energy. I am all for it. The thing is there should not just be one solution to cover all possible use cases. A lot of options leaves room for the best fit for the situation. I like having a large toolbox full of tools, not just one tool that kind of works for all possible situations.

@shannabolser9428 Жыл бұрын

I joined Incogni a couple of months ago and it really helped clean out my email of clutter. Thanks for suggesting them. My Amazon account got hacked and they started sending about 1000 emails to my account per day. That isn't an exaggerated.... I am down to about 100 now. Way better than it was before. Most of the emails I get now are overseas and they don't deal with those data brokers yet.

@KateC1431 Жыл бұрын

Given the commonly held thought that most of LI-Ion batteries are going to go towards EVs, people are going to have to start giving serious thought to other forms of energy storage for microgrids. Thermal storage is interesting and would be a good pairing with a flow battery for a microgrid on a manufacturing campus.

@Drakelett Жыл бұрын

Vehicle-to-grid and older Li-ion batteries with reduced capacity allows lithium-based batteries to support microgrids. Although agreed, more technologies = more better.

@experimentalcyborg Жыл бұрын

Lithium based batteries have decades of life in them, but after the first 15-20% degradation they're considered "spent" in vehicles. These "spent" batteries can still function for another 10-20 years in grid storage! It takes 5-10 years before enough second hand vehicle batteries enter the market since EV's only have been seriously popular for a years or two, but after that i would be surprised if batteries are specifically manufactured for grid use. There will probably be more second hand batteries than we can put in the grid. I guess most of them will just be recycled. All of this is assuming governments all around the globe actually enforce the requirement to reuse or recycle used lithium batteries.

@pierregravel-primeau702 Жыл бұрын

I dont get it. A EV battery is enought to supply a home in electricity for 3 days. Why would we need any other storage?

@Drakelett Жыл бұрын

@@pierregravel-primeau702 Some quick thoughts: 1. Not everyone will have parking for their EV outside their home/can leave it always plugged in. 2. Not everyone will want to allow V2G. 3. What if everyone is stuck in traffic at the same time and few EVs are plugged in? 4. What is the maximum discharge rate?

@paulconner4614 Жыл бұрын

@@pierregravel-primeau702 One main issue is the supply of Lithium. We are already seeing huge spikes in the price of Lithium and we have barely begun the EV conversion. So we need to move away from Lithium for places where the weight of the battery is not relevant. There are several areas like the ones above and other battery formulations that are a better solution than Lithium for fixed implementations. They don't work well for cars and laptops as they weigh considerably more than a Lithium battery.

@AlanS709 Жыл бұрын

In Renew's Sustainable House Day many years ago, a house in Adelaide had a room full of rocks surrounded by thick insulation. In winter they were heated by a simple solar air heater in daytime and released heat into the (well insulated and well designed) house at night. In summer they slowed down the temperature rise. They didn't eliminate powered heating and cooling entirely but reduced the need for it.

@furythree Жыл бұрын

What kind of insulating material was it Sounds interesting. Maybe buy a rock feature to put into a room

@AlanS709 Жыл бұрын

@@furythree Expanded polystyrene all around as I remember. There would have been sufficient strength to support the fairly large mass of rock. It was around 2.5 x 2.5 x 4 m to have sufficient thermal mass. Adelaide winters are cool but sunny so you can store a bit of heat in daytime

@yangyg2000 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this video! Your effort and dedication really shine through. I appreciate the time and work you’ve put into creating this content. Keep up the great work!

@JessieJussMessy Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the amazing video. This was a great watch. I remember Rondo from another video I saw a couple of months ago. It's pretty awesome

@joelvanwinkle5976 Жыл бұрын

It's so simple yet effective.

@frigbychilwether Жыл бұрын

Hi, storing heat using renewables is a great idea. I'm really warming to the idea !

@timothymuhlfeld5886 Жыл бұрын

You funny

@milkdrinker7 Жыл бұрын

LOL I was typing up a comment about to ask if you had coordinated with city beautiful when you got to the point where you mentioned it yourself. Good stuff, I subscribed

@MrWingman2009 Жыл бұрын

Omg such a simple and elegant solution. I've been thinking of getting a lithium based battery for my house to trade the peaks and save money, but really this is what I need instead!

@steveschritz1823 Жыл бұрын

Wish there was a method for storing large amounts of heat for six months or more. Imagine how good all that blistering summer heat would feel in the dead of winter.

@mskiptr Жыл бұрын

We used to keep ice from melting for enough time to then refrigerate stuff with it, so maybe what you're saying really is possible (my only guess is that it would have to be enormous to keep houses warm at winter)

@PaulieVavoom Жыл бұрын

Very good video. I love all of the technological advances we are seeing for making this a more sustainble wold. It's good to see how many different countries are working on resolving the problem of reliance on fossil fuels. And your videos contribute to opening our eyes, educating us, and giving us hope for a better future.

@leewingate508 Жыл бұрын

Great channel Matt. Super content and discussions in the comments 👍

@The-Rest-of-Us Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this, never heard of/ thought about thermal batteries. Very cool!

@mnhtnman Жыл бұрын

I truly want to thank you for all your hard work and dedication to inform us about new technologies. I guess I am the first one to comment today. lol

@djiniiiii Жыл бұрын

Would love to see you cover Thermo-electric energy storage and conversion in one of your videos Matt. Malta is a spinoff from Google's project X division and is currently deploying the tech in the industry Round trip efficiency is definitely not something to brag about, but with Renewables getting dirt cheap through economies of scale and newer tech (perovskites, high power offshore wind etc), the extremely low input cost of electricity more than makes up for the lower round trip efficiencies of Thermo-electric energy storage and conversion

@Kevin_Street Жыл бұрын

Thanks for another great video! I love Thermal Energy Storage systems. It's always better when you have the laws of physics on your side - and it's far more efficient to make and store heat in a central location, then move it to where it's needed, than continually burning fuel every time you want heat.

@atrias144 Жыл бұрын

I love the idea of storing thermal energy with so many applications, and district heating seems like a fantastic way to increase efficiency! I hope the technology is ready to pick up the pace soon and that it benefits everyone we share this world with.

@lylestavast7652 Жыл бұрын

Food processing uses a lot of steam and heat, might be a real game changer there for either of the major 2 you mentioned. The Rondo system patent is one heck of a read... they've done the math and physics, it's a really well detailed set of information

@bartytaylor2106 Жыл бұрын

If sooo many spareparts didn't eat criminal junk food no need...

@lylestavast7652 Жыл бұрын

You want fries with that ? maybe not... are french fries that are air fried junk food btw ?

@lylestavast7652 Жыл бұрын

@@bartytaylor2106 you know if you buy a package of frozen vegetables, that in their processing prior to freezing, they were blanched - eg dipped briefly in nearly boiling water, then dried and frozen ? It takes a lot of heat to maintain those volumes of water. There are many food processing steps that need heat, and they don't create junk food necessarily.

@bartytaylor2106 Жыл бұрын

@@lylestavast7652 lubberly to hear from U what mammels eat frozen gweenz ....😱

@lucasvivante8988 Жыл бұрын

@@bartytaylor2106 are you a chimpanzee? Because i can't understand a word of what you are saying, and i'm trying

@mikemccann8822 Жыл бұрын

Did you ever look at vacuum insulation panels? Something I’d look into for heat storage

@Sekir80 Жыл бұрын

Great idea! I just discovered them a couple of weeks ago, read a paper on their properties and testing (took place in Alaska) and I love them! Unfortunately, the pricing for those panels differ so much I can't really figure out how much does that cost.

@redsquirrelftw Жыл бұрын

They are hard to make, and crazy expensive to buy, though low temp versions would perhaps be more DIYable. I do want to experiment with that at some point.

@Tokahax Жыл бұрын

I am a firm and long-time advocate of energy storage in heat And cold storage. I truly see great value in thermal management technologies, and implementing creative new innovations with the sterling engine as well.

@TomJones-tx7pb Жыл бұрын

My house has a massive crushed glass and concrete insulated foundation that exchanges heat with the house via forced air. Works really well to reduce heating and cooling costs when combined with solar and heat pump.

@domenicobarillari2046 Жыл бұрын

Hi Matt Nice, new video. As always when I see energy storage revolving around heat energy, a big flag goes up for me. IF the energy (from solar, wind, etc.) is ultimately going to be "degraded" from electricity to heat as the useful commodity, all well and good. BUT if that electricity was wanted later, one has killed off ~ 66% in the transition - this because 33 % is what one gets back as generation electricity starting from heat. Very important that the public understand this, I feel, as I am constantly talking to lay groups that are mislead by the nature of heat storage as a method: it it not generically valid. Might be worth a good disclaimer about this very issue before jumping into the meat and bones of the discussion, say at t=4:40. with best regards, Domenico.

@davestorm6718 Жыл бұрын

Indeed, heat storage is really only good if you only need heat as the output product. Converting to electricity from heat is horribly inefficient, but these companies are not suggesting this at all.

@mrfatuchi Жыл бұрын

So what? That would still mean in the end you would get a decent amount out of it which is better than literally letting it go to the wind. The issues here is catching some of the otherwise wasted energy of renewables in environmentally friendly way and you cant get more environmentally friendly than brick and rock.

@domenicobarillari2046 Жыл бұрын

@@mrfatuchi The "so what" is that renewables already require vast amounts of land and infrastructure to maintain. They have been promised to tax and rate payers (often along with land expropriation measures) as adequate means of replacing current sources of electricity, - the thermodynamicaly highest grade of energy mankind has. To waft away 66% of that yield immediately as heat from the start now means you have to consume 3x the amount of whatever primary source you have -whether coal or wind - to compensate. You have now lost a lot of the ability to even justify any carbon footprint for EVs, etc., in cases where the current could have fed a grid. This is ethically in-excusable engineering practice in power-hungry times, and any government agency that doesn't think that through deserves to lose the next election. If you want to melt steel or run high temperature chemical processes, burn a primary heat source like gas in the first place - oh wait, some people thought a crumbly old Russian regime could help us with that....

@anomymouse5043 Жыл бұрын

I agree and disagree. I think that this idea is clearly reasonable if A) our energy source is heat or B) our end goal is to heat something. Company is directing for option B. I would love to see this idea in option A also. You argue against MrFatuchi that the investments in renewables are partially wasted. My counter argument is that badly timed energy production from renewables will most likely boost the business of various energy storage systems. So the storage efficiencies are expected to improve (although there will be always quite some loss). Still, the proportion that saves factory from burning gas or goal could benefit the company and the environment. Personally I am wondering why the excess wind energy is not stored near its production? How about flywheel or compressed air etc. without the transfer to electricity in between? I am not an engineer or physicist, so somebody smarter than me could explain the reasons....

@domenicobarillari2046 Жыл бұрын

@@anomymouse5043 Hello and thank you for this reasoned (and civil!) response. It is uncommon to see folks not coming back on me about these things all emotional... I think we actually agree overall. In my urgency to provide a very terse response I skipped over the important nuances you mention. Any chemical engineering, metal processing or similar concerns using large amounts of thermal energy exactly for the necessity or at least high "thermodynamic value" of a high temperature of some contact medium value will ALSO almost invariably find methods of using (often the same stream) for lower temperature needs around the plant. Such hot water, air, etc., may simply wind up just preheating stock flows or even merely heating the plant spaces. The loss constituted by simply "blowing away" , say, 250C hot air would be considered unconscionable and any engineer not finding SOME use for that might soon be looking for other work. Heat exchangers are the important and pervasive details of plant design. As for your final query, it sounds a bit odd, although I might be misinterpreting - please correct me. Wind energy IS primarily first converted to current by "dynamo", and with that immediate battery storage does turn out to be best at this point in time (often >93% eff.)

@toddfarkman2177 Жыл бұрын

My question is how big do these things have to be? Imagine having solar panels in the winter that heats these bricks, then at night heats your house. Each house having their own set of bricks. It would be a cool option for a cabin.

@augur1975 Жыл бұрын

The problem is winter sun doesn't have enough energy even if you covered your house in solar panels, even a heat pump with a COP of 3 probably wouldn't be able to get enough energy. You need large scale renewables as the energy source because the amount of energy required to heat a house in winter is closer to 80kWh per day than 8kWh. Also what these heat batteries don't promote is that if they are heated up using spare electricity it is only 100% efficient whereas a heat pump is more like 300%. For your scenario using a heat pump to raise a two cubic metre insulated box of water up to 55°C for extracting heat passively until it's down to 20°C would provide about 80kWh of heat energy for closer to 25kWh of mains electricity. The other alternative are solar collectors to directly warm the water using the winter sun, that could be even cheaper to run as at it's most basic all you need is a black box to absorb solar radiation.

@lucasvivante8988 Жыл бұрын

@@augur1975 anyway solar is very inneficient and very polluant. But nuclear energy need a way to store excess energy. The most obvious choice is to buy energy when it's at it's cheapest (during daytime) to gather excess from nuclear and to use it for your house during night. So the question remain, how much energy can these bricks hold?

@MeteorMark Жыл бұрын

Good video as always Matt! Interesting and fun you use an aerial shot of Blast Furnaces 6 & 7 at Tata Steel in IJmuiden where I work. There are actually "Windverhitters" or Hot Blast Stoves that are first heated by process gasses and some natural gas, and then cooled by air which feeds the Blast Furnaces. And coke is used to reduce the iron ore, and in the process of making coke from coal, gas is produced that, with other proces gasses, is used to make electricity and steam, to power the site. We do recuperate a lot of energy, mostly to heat our buildings and water, central town heating was considered, but sadly never rolled out... Now we are transitioning to Hydrogen, and have a brand new 380KV station almost on site to bring in power from new offshore wind farms, we will be connected directly to that. The six 120m axis height wind turbines in the back came on grid in 2022, but are not ours. Also some byproducts are used as building materials, especially the sharp sand that forms when quenching slag from the Blast Furnaces, goes directly to the neighbor cement factory. That factory doesn't produce their own cinder though.

@josephpiskac2781 Жыл бұрын

Great as long as all the details are considered and complications avoided. Being simple can remain a complicated problem if thermal or contamination issues are missed.

@Aaron-oe8xw Жыл бұрын

Really cool video. Personally i see advancements in geopolymers as a more sustainable route in concrete than the brick storage method but i still like and see the potential application of storing heat energy this way. Definatley a great alternative to oil furnaces and other fossil fuels. I will say that in many cases with a wood stove that really depends on the situation. So for normal amerocan suburban and urban lifestyle, yeah burning wood is probably not going to be sustainable. But for people who live out with plenty of wilderness, you can avtually harvest quite a bit of wood from dead or dead standing trees and fallen branches. You dont need to log at all if you have (i believe) it was around 5 acrea of forests area to harvest from per household. Is this methid going to heat everyones homes? No but when blanket statements are made like "burning wood is unsustainable" thats not really the whole truth. Nor is the opposite.

@op4000exe Жыл бұрын

An interresting thing to consider with thermal batteries for district heating, is that you can also do the opposite of heating with them. Since the units themselves are heavily insulated (how they can store heat for so long), they would in practice also store cold just as well (cold is just absence of heat, but you get the point), this cooling could then be funneled around the city blocks during times of excess heat and could thus help with reducing the need for excessive air conditioning.

@goodstormsgames9744 Жыл бұрын

Only problem is you need to get the material down to that temprature before you use it for cooling. If you were storing heat in it before hand that would be a problem. or you would need a heat pump to increase the heat difference from ambient.

@op4000exe Жыл бұрын

@@goodstormsgames9744 True, but larger heat pumps are generally more efficient anyway, so it wouldn't really neccessarily be a problem. Also it'd solve the issue of individual heat pumps around the area breaking, since everything is localised at a facility which can hire permanent staff to look after their equipment, or have previously established agreements with firms that handle repairs n' stuff. This is not to say that heat pumps by each building doesn't work, but in much the same way as how individual heat pumps isn't the most efficient for heating, it isn't really for cooling either.

@amdreallyfast Жыл бұрын

I've been looking forward for this for over a decade, ever since I read a 2010 article in The Guardian about a gravel battery project at Cambridge

@vaibhavbhardwaj787 Жыл бұрын

Sir , thank you for such enriching content. 🙏🏻❤️

@bigsweade Жыл бұрын

It's really interesting to see these new technologies coming to use. I'm just wondering what kind of energy losses you have when transferring electricity to heat and vice cersa. Usually, any transition between carriers of energy has some sort of loss, don't they? Or is it negligable?

@NeblogaiLT Жыл бұрын

It is negligible for electricity to heat.

@davestagner Жыл бұрын

Lossiness is usually loss to, well, heat, so as an input it should be low. The problem is turning heat back into electricity.

@ZeoCyberG Жыл бұрын

Energy conversion is always at a loss, so avoiding a conversion and just moving heat is much more efficient. Same reasons they can claim Mini-Splits are so efficient because it's a heat pump and doesn't need to generate or convert heat from another energy source but just move it.

@lylestavast7652 Жыл бұрын

electricity to heat (which is where most electricity losses go...) is really efficient. What will come up as next concern is how well insulated is the storage container, as heat losses through thermal bridging (eg where things are supported, or interior to exterior walls etc.). Time for someone to come up with a really awesome thermos bottle building or panels that can be joined which are that level of "R" :)

@bigsweade Жыл бұрын

@@ZeoCyberG I thought it would be more efficient to move electricity than heat?

@chuzzbot Жыл бұрын

Surely these should all be called 'thermal mass' batteries?

@wobby1516 Жыл бұрын

It’s interesting that companies are looking into storing energy in the form of heat. This idea has been around for many years in the form of night storage heaters. I can remember 50 years ago we were installing night storage central heating in big warm air unit that were sourced I believe from Canada. They worked in a similar way to your American gas furnaces. A company in the U.K. Aga. Made a cooker that used bricks inside a cast iron range cooker to store energy to cook with during the day. The disadvantage was if the elements inside the bricks failed, it was a mammoth task to dismantle and rebuild the range cooker.

@Techangler65 Жыл бұрын

Interesting Matt. Thanks for sharing

@NeblogaiLT Жыл бұрын

Thermal storage looks like a great idea. But I wonder, if ~20% efficiency from solar batteries is not worse, than using vacuum thermal collectors (that can heat up to crazy temperatures too) and then pipe that heat to thermal storage.

@Charlie-Oooooo Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!!! As thermal storage is becoming a big thing, why not get 100% of energy from sun instead of just 20%. It makes no sense! I'm sure people will eventually see the light ;)

@LaserFur Жыл бұрын

I am planing on using solar toughs to heat water and then store that heat in a tank of candle wax.

@Charlie-Oooooo Жыл бұрын

@@LaserFur That sounds exciting! There's lots of research out there on improvements using nano particles and other things. Good luck!

@pierregravel-primeau702 Жыл бұрын

What is the efficiency of a thermal collector? Answer 20%.

@mrfatuchi Жыл бұрын

I think costs of piping that heat outweigh the benefits. I am no expert but just thinking how great those pipes have to be insulation wise to not get radiation of that heat that goes nowhere... You might end up with same percentages. I think the mirrors and molten salts he mentioned at the end is better solution.

@ge2719 Жыл бұрын

Someone should design a small one of these that can be attached to a computer. A lot of people run a gaming pc and just open the window to get rid of the heat because it heats up their room too much. Being able to put that energy in a brick battery during the day and release it into the whole house heating when it's needed would be great for reducing heat waste. Or even more efftive in server farms that also pretty much just push the heat out of the building to cool the computers.

@ToIsleOfView Жыл бұрын

Building houses to move heat through solar panels is an effective plan.

@sandermez3856 Жыл бұрын

brilliant! in the energy storage business, there are many options. You could raise a VERY heavy weight up in the air with a pulley system, then lower it to turn a crank, storing mechanical energy. You could spin a heavy wheel (flywheel), then later use it's fast spin to release mechanical energy. You could charge a plate up to a high voltage, storing eclectic charge. You could use chemicals in a battery that react with one another, releasing electric charge (most batteries today)... But this is so simple. Slowly raising heat into an isolated system, to later released as heat, no converting to electricity or mechanical energy... and if you need mechanical energy, just use the heat to boil water and turn a turbine! simple yet practical. Im just wondering the energy density of the battery and how much energy you could get out of them? and 1500C is not bad for now. hopefully they could get more!

@AB-jt6ic Жыл бұрын

Great video. Thanks for your content!

@PaleGhost69 Жыл бұрын

Aren't all batteries technically made with rocks?

@UndecidedMF Жыл бұрын

Well, when you put it that way ... yes, they kind of are.

@ge2719 Жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ Marie! They're minerals!

@PaleGhost69 Жыл бұрын

@@ge2719 "Ores are concentrations of minerals in rock" -geology website that I can't link

@NwoDispatcher 4 ай бұрын

Ya if you think we're all amoebas and blacks

@yurikraucs4161 Жыл бұрын

High efficiency in storing and converting the most primal form of energy. It is so simplistic that it is amazing It wasn't thought until now. I would really lile to work on this field

@jakestruempler1983 Жыл бұрын

i can agree these systems work, I have had a system similar to this running at my house here in alaska for 7 years, my temps are running closer to 180f we have almost 24hour daylight and no heat load in the summer so I am storing the energy in a rock battery. this caries my heat loads for months into the winter and preheats my domestic hot water year round. it has offset my gas bill by around 50%

@SodiumEx Жыл бұрын

1st

@donnamarie3617 Жыл бұрын

We have been using TES at a home based level successfully for 3.5 years so far. Basically, we send excess generation from our solar panels directly to the hot water cylinder, and once it's at temperature it's thermostat opens and further excess generation is exported to the grid. Our hot water cylinder has been :off grid" continuously for 3.5 years so far, and we have yet to suffer a cold shower. With this we have bypassed the need for dedicated "expensive" batteries but of course depend on the grid for night time power. With 16 panels and a 6kw inverter we have zero power bills averaged out over the year.

@Jason-gz9ok Жыл бұрын

People have been doing this in houses. You make your couch out of cob, and run the heat from the wood stove through it. Good show.

@patrickmckowen2999 Жыл бұрын

👍👍 Things are really heating up in this area of energy storage. Cheers

@jdilksjr Жыл бұрын

CO2 is not a pollutant nor a thermostat, it is simply plant food and the plants want as much as they can get.

@paulmount1119 2 ай бұрын

Great video Matt!

@yin-fire3263 Жыл бұрын

I like the lip in video production from the last video, it's very noticeable and I like it!

@mondl5344 Ай бұрын

Loving the puns you kept using in this one! Awesome vid as always

@someotherdude Жыл бұрын

Best channel on KZfaq. At the beginning of this video it is stated: "Wind and solar are intermittent, so we need to have cheap, reliable energy storage...." Tens of thousands of people will hear this and think 'ok, this is what I will vote for' assuming that we can simply do this. But what people don't realize is 1) it's not clear we can have cheap energy storage and 2) it's not clear that we can get there quickly. So the politicians who are trying to regulate and legislate fossil fuels away are truly setting us all up for real hardship. I'm all for a clean, net zero future, but it's going to take longer than a millenial's attention span. Right now the USA is trying to take it's most abundant and relatively clean fuel off the table- natural gas- without having the storage question answered. Big mistake!

@scottcarr3264 Жыл бұрын

Also things like Rocket MASS heaters for your home where you burn wood or pellets in the heater, these style of heaters are VERY efficient, there is only a small amount of fine ash left after the burn. The outlet from the fire box goes through a Mass of rock, gravel bricks etc, which warms up via latent heat, and that mass stays warm for 30 to 40 hours after the fire has gone out, It is a great Idea but a lot of people don't know about them. Too many people today only want heaters that plug into a wall outlet, or are built-in reverse cycle air conditioners.

@mpoelsma7561 Жыл бұрын

I believe how more simple the technoligy, the less things can be broken. So keep it simple as possible.

@iancowan3527 Жыл бұрын

Often... Simple solutions simply work the best!

@TimmyB1867 Жыл бұрын

I'm a Canadian, so the concept of cheaper and more ecological/efficient heating is always a bonus here. Especially as my brother lives somewhere that the most common sources of heat are wood and propane, followed by electrical.

@exosproudmamabear558 Жыл бұрын

Reduction in 30% on operating costs with cheap solutions means we will say goodbye to cement gas emitions soon. I hope every company will see this

@panospapadimitriou3498 Жыл бұрын

as long a s i m at my apartment and try to warm it with A C and 10.5 months a year i have sun outside. you didnt tried hard to make me decide its good ideas!!!! tons of ideas

@redsquirrelftw Жыл бұрын

I want to eventually live off grid so this is definitely something I want to experiment with. I might even try it small scale here at home once I have my wood stove set up since I can use heat from it to heat water then store it. My setup would be below 100C though as I don't want to get into steam territory but if I can use the stored energy to heat the bathroom in the morning for when I shower which is one of the times where I want heat the most as I'm always cold when I'm tired.

@Karjis Жыл бұрын

At least in northern Europe it is quite common to have few cubic meters of water in a insulated tank in a house if heat source is intermittent, like wood burning heater. Quite cheap, simple and easy to expand. Each 1000 litres of water can store for example 58kWh if 50C temperature difference is used. (for example from almost boiling 95C to 45C which is still hot enough for heating with good radiators or underfloor heating). Each C for temp difference with 1000 kilos (good enough to say 1000 litres) of water stores 1,13kWh so it is easy to calculate how much volume is needed. We had a system with about roughly 2000l hot water tank, and it kept the house warm for a day during winter and and provided hot water for half a week during summer. It got replaced with smaller tank due to change to heat pump as the old boiler was.. well just worn out. But we still have enough tank capacity to be able to basically reload the tank during off peak and just let heat pump rest over the price peak during office hours.

@TheVoidSinger Жыл бұрын

Funny enough, this kind of heat storage would actually work really well in places you wouldn't think need or want it, namely desert and high plains. They still get cold enough to need heat, but lack of infrastructure around heating means they over-pay for it to great detriment. Down-side is that it's only effective in high density use areas like cites and industrial parks

@antonimigdal2841 Жыл бұрын

Dear Matt Ferrel, on presentation you showed some advantages of Brick and Rock Battery System. Please share some technical informations of this type of TES i.e.: What is the selfdischarging time of thermal energy storage system? What is energy efficiency storage calculated from electricity to electricity? What is a volumetric capacity of energy storage system when the required temperature at the outlet of gas is at least 500 deg of C? Regards. Antoni

@goreobsessed2308 Жыл бұрын

This is exactly what we needed

@wk8219 Жыл бұрын

I've not really noticed before but Matt's got a fantastic intro to his videos. To me a sign of well done branding is that you feel it but don't really consciously see it. Nicety done.

@jeanlanz2344 Жыл бұрын

Yes, this technology makes a lot of sense. Hopefully it will be adapted for cement/concrete, steel, and chemicals/plastics. Thank you for a detailed presentation. God bless you!

@Console.Log01 Жыл бұрын

I hope to see these adapted everywhere, both cost-saving and emission-saving, just the solution needed!

@garielgrenadius7564 Жыл бұрын

"Down to earth", is right. Good video.

@Pantherlvr44 Жыл бұрын

Immediately had me thinking about the old adobe structures in the SW US where the sun’s heat absorbed during the day would radiate over the cold nights to keep the occupants warm. Old tech worked! This modern application / update is definitely needed. Very cool … uh … hot! 😂👍🏻

@bobleiviska1275 Жыл бұрын

TES systems have been offered by our power company for years. I nice looking metal box filled with bricks is in each room of the house. The boxes are narrow and fit along the wall The bricks are heated during the night when the rates are low. No trouble keeping the house warm through the cold winter. live in NE Minnesota.

@niklar55 Жыл бұрын

A brick battery is just another name for a storage heater. They have been in use for a century or more. My grandmother used to put a brick in the oven, during the day, and then remove it, wrap it in a piece of blanket, and pop it into the bed to warm the bed up. My neighbour has one in her lounge. It's just a stack of bricks in a sheet metal box, with electric elements passed through it. .

@Llamacowking99 Жыл бұрын

Used that heating up pun a bit too much, keep up the good work!

@ricardoludwig4787 Жыл бұрын

I love how gradually the big inovations in battery technology have become more down to earth. Batteries started as state of the art mysterious chemichal devices, and most of the ones we use for smaller batteries still use the same principle, but the biggest inovations for larger batteries were like, "pump water uphill" and now just "heat a big brick"

@nickwinn7812 9 ай бұрын

Yeah - and we were doing all of this simple stuff for millenia before the fossil fuel industry got us hooked on "throw-away" energy sources.

@iroccata Жыл бұрын

I like the concept. I don't know if it's better than water as a storage of energy. Maybe for heat storage for industry it's the best option, but using pumps to fill a reservoir is a better option where the it's is available .

@trulyinfamous Жыл бұрын

Being able to reclaim heat from factory processes and reuse it will be a very important thing in the future.

@cienciabit Жыл бұрын

What about solar thermal? At least in sunny places. Efficiencies around 80% vs 20% in photovoltaics. With molten salts, sodium, oil or steam conveyed to the brick/rock batteries. Other variation could be this system heating underground huge stone batteries to keep summer heat for winter heating. The key in order to insulate those batteries IMHO would be a round shape, a HUGE size and perhaps surrounded by volcanic materials outside ( rock wool, perlite, etc.)

@nathanmiddleton1478 Жыл бұрын

It really does seem like these would be great. Here in the Midwest there are several smaller shared heating systems, to see them coupled with anything that uses excess wind and solar would be encouraging. We certainly don't lack for wind here.

@MrZygmuncik Жыл бұрын

Congratulations! Mankind has rediscovered brick kilns!

@TysonJensen Жыл бұрын

When all you wanted was heat, just storing the heat directly makes a lot of sense. I had no idea it was such a high percentage of energy use!

@TheAnticorporatist Жыл бұрын

I know that it’s Rondo, not “Brawndo”, but every time you say it all I hear is, “Brawndo has what plants crave!”

@miavaughn2393 Жыл бұрын

Most of Steel's CO2 emissions come from production of virgin steel, from both mining and the actual process of manufacturing steel, by pushing oxygen into the iron, and emitting co2. Production of virgin steel is unnecessary if you just need STEEL, but virgin steel is required for the most part to mix with recycled steel to get highly precise alloy mixes. It is very difficult to get certain elements out of an alloy with steel, so recycled steel is usually mixed with virgin steel to balance out the proportions of contaminants from the recycled steel. What's needed here, definitely is MASS carbon capture, as virgin steel making largely HAS to produce co2 with the current processes. But the bonus of steel is that it is done in an enclosed facility, unlike concrete (though the production of clinker can also be carbon captured, but most poured concrete emits co2 too). There are interesting alternatives though, as steel can apparently be made with hydrogen without co2 production. Swedish company Hybrit created green steel this way. If hydrogen becomes much cheaper, then this form of virgin steel production might take over completely. We can only hope. But the use of heat batteries could definitely help metalmaking as an industry be more efficient in its energy use, even if entirely run on electricity.