There's 2 ways this can go. The user of the red lightsaber isn't a Sith like explained in the video, but another darksider. OR the Jedi who meet an actual Sith never live to tell the rest of the Jedi Order. Both keep the lore intact.

*Fun fact:* In Legends, the Jedi were actually informed about the Rule of Two Sith by Kibh Jeen (A Fallen ex-member who formed a Dark Side Cult in the years 188BBY), but they just didn't trust his words and killed him. That explains why Yoda and Windu knew about the Master-Apprentice dynamic during Qui-Gon's funeral

Ki Adi Mundi: "What I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

Don’t forget, Yoda was aware of Darth Bane and the Rule of Two. It happened in Legends thanks to a Dark Jedi when he dropped the Rule of Two as evidence (approximately a century or two prior to TPM. Kinda like this show’s timeframe…). Essentially speaking we _COULD_ see the machinations of the Sith through their manipulation of Dark Jedi (which yes is an EU term) to carry out their dirty work for them. That or we could see a repeat on Tython between Bane/Zannah vs the Jedi Strike team. Essentially “no witnesses”.

I can absolutely understand if ki-Audi Mundi was exaggerating to make his point but 100 years seems way too short

The best part of watching Ecks for years is seeing how his titles have changed

Yoda: “Mmm, always two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice.” Yoda knew about the Rule of Two, which began with Darth Bane at the time when the Jedi had believed the Sith to have gone extinct. Which is something that not only has Lucas talked about, but was brought up in the Clone Wars and in Legends which fleshed how Yoda would have found out and why some on the Jedi Council guarded that information. 200 years before the prequels, a Sith Lord slipped up, casting a disturbance in the Force that a few within the Order recognized as Sith. So, they began secretly to send out Jedi Sentinels to quietly follow any rumors to any evidence that would without a doubt confirm their continued existence. Unfortunately, those Sentinels either didn’t find anything to solid to report or they simply just never came back. They did however learn about Bane’s Rule of Two. Since they had nothing conclusive, they opted to keep the information under wraps on a need to know basis hoping that the Sith would emboldened to reveal themselves and blindside the Jedi. By the prequels, even some of the Jedi Council had no idea of this. But, Yoda did.

I always took Ki-Adi's line to mean the Sith as an organization on the scale they existed in oooold-Republic times. A single dark side user might be referred to as a "sith" or maybe even was a surviving sith lord, but without a formal organized power structure or temple or base of operations they were effectively "extinct" as a formal group.

The writer confirmed this series is about the Sith

The jedi were unable to see that Palpatine was a dark side user and he was literally face to face with them. It's completely tenable that they missed a sith/dark side group of some kind on some obscure planet in some forsaken lawless part of the galaxy. Padme even says the Republic barely gets word from tattooine in the same movie. Padme was shocked that slavery still existed thats how out of touch the "elite" were.

I think a big thing people aren't realizing about this, is the context that quote came from. He says that to Qui-Gon in response to a sith report, to deny it. There can be sith active in the past, there can be conflicts with the Jedi that don't get killed. The point of the quote isn't to be taken at face value, its one of the M A N Y instances that were shown as criticisms of the Jedi and how their destruction was their own doing. It was to highlight the hubris and overconfidence, and we know they're factually wrong about the sith being extinct anyway. Even Darth Mauls line about revealing themselves finally can be easily discredited by the fact he wasn't actually a sith lord, just an assassin, one trained by Palpatine no less, a master consistently shown to hold back crucial sith lore to his apprentices, as was the case with both Dooku and Vader. There is literally no reason to think that the one qoute, said to dismiss an actual sith sighting, should be taken at face value to mean there was never a single instance of a red bladed force user in the last 2000 years.

Love your stuff man! Always bringing reason

I like that canon is bringing more non-Sith and non-Jedi Force users into the mainstream and trying to dispel this misconception that only those groups can use the Force, and similar groups don't exist. It's kind of frustrating that some fans, both casual and hardcore, still have that interpretation. Heck, in TLJ, Luke even called this out with his "the Force does not belong to the Jedi" line! Thanks for covering this!

It's possible that Mundi meant the organization of the Sith, ie the order itself. The Sith Lords they've encountered for all they know are just one-off renegade dark siders.

I recently re-watched TPM and if anything, I find it odd that Qui-Gon jumps to the conclusion that he had fought a Sith Lord. True, Maul was no fallen Jedi they knew of, but it's still a bit of a leap. Then again, Qui-Gon was pretty insightful and willing to make intuitive leaps.

1:37 Uh, what? Did you just forget what Qui-Gon said in TPM? He literally tells the Council "He was trained in the Jedi arts. My only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord." Maul wasn't out there slinging philosophy or anything, he just ran in and started swinging, and Qui-Gon recognized those moves as "Jedi arts". There is absolutely nothing distinguishing him from a Dark Jedi, so far as Qui-Gon could have surmised. Also the entire Banite line of Sith descend from Dark Jedi that became Sith. There is almost nothing distinguishing a Dark Jedi from a Sith at a glance aside from maybe raw power output, but that's only a result of training and is something any Dark Jedi could learn or pass on in time. So yes, some guy with a red lightsaber in the Acolyte that whoops like 8 Jedi at once would 100% be considered a Sith if anybody lived to tell the Order about it.

Thank god! I’m so glad someone’s made a video to say this! It’s been driving me mad seeing people, even Star Wars KZfaqrs, saying it’s messing up continuity and it can’t work because of what mundi said. Like not every dark side user is a sith, and just because the Jedi see a red saber they aren’t going to all think the sith are back.. I do get why people are concerned about it though as Disney have messaged up cannon and continuity a lot in the past and I’m sure they will again

Das größte Missverständnis bezüglich der Überlieferung von Herrn Lucas ist, dass die Legenden kein Teil der Originaltrilogie und der Prequels waren, aber Ecks Meinungen sind nur eine Gehirnerschütterungswahrnehmung, die zwei Versionen zu einer Überlieferung verschmilzt ... was weiß ich schon, immerhin bekommt Ki Mundi Gegenwind, weil Eck ihn als 1:10 darstellt

#AskEck I've had the idea for a little while now that Lucasfilm should pursue adapting George Lucas's sequel treatments in comic form and getting Lucas himself to consult on it. This may sound like an out-there idea but Lucas was clearly unhappy that the story of his sequels was never told, he's had a life long love of comic books as a medium and even though he's retired, he's always been happy to consult on projects whenever Lucasfilm have asked him to (Solo, The Mandalorian, Dial of Destiny, etc). For Lucasfilm's part, they're fine with producing non canonical content like Visions and the rumored 'What if?' series. Marvel Comics has also just announced they'll be publishing 'What if?' Alien comics and Dark Horse recently published a comic adaption of one of James Cameron's old drafts for an Avatar sequel, so I don't see why Lucasfilm can't get either company to give Star Wars the same treatment. It could even be nice way to celebrate the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the beginning of the sequel trilogy, taking a look at what it could have been. So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's an idea Lucasfilm should pursue?

Remember when Jedi used red lightsabers when the Sith weren’t around?

Personally I hope it IS a Sith. And instead of everyone being killed, for some reason portions of the Council are aware but agree to keep it secret. And one of the council members who is aware is Yoda, which is why he is aware of the Rule of Two at Qui-Gon's funeral.

The show is literally about the Sith. Not just some person running around with a red lightsaber. One of the characters is the sith apprentice and supposedly training under a Sith lord.

I’m so tired of the “fans”. Their hatred has poisoned them.

There could be a cover up at the end of the show, and that is why Yoda knows about the Rule of Two.

Amazing content as always, keep it up!!

I've grown to hate film/tv pre-release speculation culture. Dissecting a minute and a half long trailer were most of the information is taken out of context, and assuming what will happen is just painful. It it such a shocker that a piece of media might actually explain that is going on in the story? The same thing happened with the trailer for Alex Garland's "Civil War" Movie. "It is impossible for Texas and California to be on the same side!" "You do realize this is a work of fiction right, and they might explain that in the actual movie"

There are certainly ways to neatly work around this canon obstacle, but after seeing what they got away with in the Kenobi show, which at best stretched things to the very limit, my confidence in their mindfulness isn’t all that high.

The problem is I just don't caaaaaaaare. There were tons of comics before Disney Star Wars taking place during the old republic where the Jedi deal with threats aside from just red lightsabers. How many red lightsabers is Disney going to throw at you before you get bored?

We also must forget, especially because we don't know how old it is. That one of the dark side religions and cults that have remained independent until the sequel trilogy involving a red lightsaber were the Knights of Ren who were not sith but did follow the dark side and their leader passed down a red lightsaber that their cult is named after.

I feel everyone is missing a potential plot point, what if the head of the Jedi council knows of the Sith ? Yodi keeps it a secret for a reason we dont know yet.

kyle: jedi? 8t88 with a dismissive wave: *dark* jedi

This will be the least of this show's problems. I just hope it's semi-coherent and looks cool.

In the original clone wars cartoon Ventress proclaimed she was Sith. Dooku told her to prove it. He told her that she may wear the trappings of a Sith, but that didn’t make her a Sith.

So glad you made this video man

-The way of saying it I still have no idea what's happening here but good thing it was explained

Do people really think that such a glaring retcon would be made? Lucasfilm usually goes out of their way to make sure they are not contradicting canon, for live action material at least. Given that the show takes place only 100 years before Phantom Menace they would obviously review that film for any mention of the Old Republic and/or Sith to make sure they are not breaking canon.

In the Legends continuity “Acolyte” was a term used to denote dark Jedi (or other force sensitives) being used by the Sith. Both the CIS under Tyranus & the Empire under Sidius bath made use of the term Acolytes.

Very simple explanation is Ki Adi Mundi was just unaware/oblivious. The jedi are meant to be as such in the prequel era, that's how/why they were able to be basically obliterated so quickly/easily. Existence itself of sith at Acolyte would change nothing

I have always wondered: if *all* the Jedi thought the Sith extinct for a thousand years since a large order was defeated…how the hell did Yoda and Windu know about the Rule of Two?

It’s also possible that the Sith were encountered, but in a “minor” fashion. Like a border skirmish compared to a world war. And by the time of the Phantom Menace members of the current Jedi council had either forgotten or simply didn’t know about those lesser incidents.

I think what distinguishes a Sith from a dark side user is their presence in the force. Someone who just uses the dark side would not have the training and philosophy that a true Sith would, therefore their imprint within the force would be much different. That’s why Qui-Gon could tell that Maul was Sith rather than just some random dark jedi or force user. It was the way Maul fought and the way he felt within the force that distinguished him as Sith.

Short version: If anyone tells you "The Sith have been dead for a Millenia, and the Acolyte is breaking Canon," bring up Baylon Skoll, let them know how awesome he was and ask if he's a Sith. They will either put it together themselves or say yes, at which point they really don't get it.

That statement in The Phantom Menace is meant to be a sign of the blindness and hubris of the Jedi. Obviously they could never completely tamp out the Sith.

Having Media Literacy and being a Star Wars Fan is a venn diagram with only six people on the inside One day we’ll find them, Eck

In the Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon straight up tells the Jedi Council he ran into a Force wielder (who we know is Darth Maul) and fought him. The scene begins at the end of his explanation, but one can assume he mentioned the red lightsaber. The Jedi Council did not believe Maul was a Sith. If use of the Force for bad deeds and using a red lightsaber was enough to be a Sith, the Jedi Council would've immediately decided the Sith had returned. Though it *is* a little harder to explain away a red lightsaber now that the lore has made them have a very specific process of creation that requires immense skill in the dark side. Something many dark Jedi and other dark side sects in canon probably wouldn't be able to or want to do. The process known as "bleeding." Oops. Oh but it's okay this one guy who was in stasis since the High Republic era bled his kyber crystal in like 2 seconds.

Yoda wasn't stupid, he knew the Sith were still out there, but he also knew that having that knowledge, and the Sith NOT knowing there were a handful of Jedi with that knowledge, gave the Jedi one small advantage in being able to anticipate them one day making their move. He simply didn't work out the nature of their plan in time. So the Jedi at large continued to arrogantly disbelieve the stories of Sith survivors that had persisted since Bane's time, and dismissed rumours they were unable to follow up on any time they surfaced.

Maybe there will be some character who tries to get the Jedi to take the Sith seriously after dealing with the situation in The Acolyte, but the end of the show has the Jedi Council dismiss it and incorrectly assume that this was just an isolated dark side user/fallen Jedi and that it couldn’t possibly be a return of the Sith. I mean as you pointed out the Jedi are supposed to be kind of in denial around the prequel era.

It's probably going to follow the same pattern as most movies and shows that come out now, the good guy and main character is going to be an absolute villain and horrible person. I really think there is a conspiracy to corrupt the morals and ethics of society. Most new movies and shows have irredeemable, horrible, villainous main characters that they try to pass off as a good guy.

Pls make longer videos! I love them

Completely agree. I didn't realize people had trouble putting this together until the trailer dropped and I checked the comments

Let's not forget the early writings of the high republic jedi order were described as 'not dogmatic.' Implying they are all inclusive. When if that were the case they likely would have eventually had a schism like the jedi order did multiple times before when at an impasse. Even if it was supposedly all inclusive and not dogmatic there wouldn't be a need to be Sith and they would have no enemies.

What Battlefront 2 mod is Eck using right at the beginning there?

I think it would be pretty compelling if this is an actual appearance of the Sith, but the Jedi order covers it up for the sake of keeping up the idea that the Jedi order isn’t under threat. It adds some extra meat to the idea that the Jedi were willfully ignorant of their downfall and of the power of the Sith, leading to the infiltration of Palpatine into the government

the user not being a sith wouldn't really make sense when the show is 8 episodes long and is centered around siths. however, i think the route they'll take is that their communication with the outside will be gone. in a lot of high republic novels this happens and it happens because these are Jedi that explore the galaxy and find new hyperspace lanes

Perhaps Ki-Adi-Muni was simply talking about the Sith Species that the Jedi/Republic probably exterminated 1000 years back.

Or the Jedi choose to cover up some stuff that happens in The Acolyte and that causes even some Jedi on the Jedi Council to be unaware of what happened in the events of that show.

Star Wars writing in general is just a mess. It's getting closer and closer to just having no cohesive rules or lore, and I'm honestly here for it.

Thanks for laying this out Ek. I mean, the show will probably be bad (hopefully not). People just want to hate on anything. Thank you for being the optimist

Just because a character believes something to be true, it doesn’t mean that it is. I can get behind a storytelling choice that Yoda and crew kept it a secret, even to Mundi. Or perhaps they weren’t sure, just dark sided users that had confusing sith-like traits.

It’ll be a baylan skoll character. A previous Jedi disillusioned by the order and will eliminate them for power. The Jedi will fight and defeat the character, pat themselves on the back saying “yay we stopped someone from nearly becoming a sith” and then they will break the fourth wall and say “see precious Star Wars fans, we did not break cannon”. Ki Adi Mundi’s head will then appear and say “that’s all folks”.

Finally someone pointed this out. Thanks

It's been such a talking point among people who already want to hate it.

Also feel like Ki-Adi Mundi could have been talking about the Sith Race, as in TOR MMO Pure blood sith are an actual race and others are considered lesser Sith. And the Sith race ultimately gets wiped out.

Maul had a red lightsaber, and Windu wasn't sure he was a Sith. Apparently, red lightsabers don't automatically make you a Sith. Finn used a blue lightsaber, and he wasn't a Jedi.

Or a fallen Padawan finds a red lightsaber….

Yeah I've always felt like it's been super clear in the lore that sith is a very specific thing, and that unless you had some kind of specific reason to assume that a dark user was a sith, they didn't necessarily have to be one. Maybe because I'm a student of religious history and so have always had a distinction between the nuance of what constitutes a specific position in mind when evaluating sith and Jedi, I've never felt it to be confusing, I am willing to admit that might just be my specific background, and that it's not actually clear if I went back and objectively analyze the lore; but yeah it's never struck me as incongruent or problematic for the Jedi to be dealing with corrupted dark force users but also simultaneously recognizing that the sith as a religion is no longer practiced.

Qui Gonn's own padawan (pre Obi-wan) fell to the naughty side... and iirc he was edgy af enough to have a red saber too? So yeah holes in in Universe knowledge =/= broken lore

before qui Gon even says he thinks maul was a sith lord he says "whatever it was it was trained in the Jedi arts" (not exact probably but close) so for all he knew maul could have been a rogue Jedi that bled his crystal hell barris offee bombed the jedi temple and used an actual siths lightsabers but she wasn't labeled a sith (yes I know that happens after the "the sith have been gone for a millennia" scene but point still stands) a sith and a rogue Jedi or Darksider are 2 different things

The issue is that if they got these darksiders running around from time to time, then why don't they ever have the assumption that some are trying to restore the Sith or ARE the Sith? In the Phantom Menace they seem almost blindsided by the idea of a darkside force user being on their radar. Several of the council members were still around during "The Acolyte" series' timeline.

i think the issue is not that people dont understand these things rather its that they have no faith in disney to understand or care about these things. like look at how much they butchered the chosen one prophesy, and you think they wont do the same with the sith not being encountered for a thousand years prior to the prequels. i also think that people generally believe that the idea that something that looks like a sith and acts like a sith is not a sith simply because they dont call themselves one is stupid. like its just a way to allow them to continue using sith in starwars despite the lore saying none should exist.

It’ll probably be a rogue Dark Side user.

THANK YOU for putting this out there. I know this a pretty minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but it is still representative of how people increasingly tend to discuss at length stuff they don't actually know very well. I won't fault people who make this mistake regarding the Sith in passing, but if you're going to spend any significant degree of time discussing this then for God's sake do your research! I will fault anyone who watched Ahsoka and makes the mistake though, because Baylan Skoll very explicitly says at one point that he isn't a Sith even though he's done dastardly dark deeds and wields a red(dish) lightsaber.

There is also the possibility that when Ki Adi Mundi says that line, he and the council are flat out lying, like a cover up.

It could just be a flashback from a millennia ago.

My theory is the “Acolyte” is just someone who heard of the Sith and is posing as one while the real Sith Lord of that era is trying to stop them from drawing so much attention. Either by killing them or what is more likely, turning them to the dark side. We know the Rule of Two Sith are out there somewhere. It would make sense that people would try and pose as Sith to try and make themselves well known in the underworld. And it would lend credence to Mundi’s assumption that the Sith are extinct and Maul could have been just another pretender.

What I can't understand is how people think this will be good

If they talk like a Sith and act like a Sith then the Jedi would see them as a Sith.

Yeah I just ignore when SW fans talk about literacy especially when a lot of them like to trash andor because muh jedi and slow show lol

Maybe the word “millennium” means something different in a galaxy far far away

I mean... yeah? But also... I mean, I can summarize my take as to why I wouldn't be surprised by saying: _"Disney's canon not contradicting itself or the movies, IMPOSSIBLE LEVEL CHALLENGE"_ so...

Liked this before watching simply for the title alone. Could tell this would be a great take as soon as I read it! Well done! Haha

Well we know it’s going to break the Star Wars lore because that’s what Disney does

There are a million things you can say to yourself to make it make sense. I could say Palpatines machinations with the dark side clouded their minds so badly that they lost track of time. Or we could say that The Acolyte is something on the level of Ventress. They all knew Ventress. We could say Ki Adi mundi flippantly spit out a number of years to emphasize a long time. Who knows. It's not that serious. We don't even need some grand explanation for any of these. Edit: See, I just said a million when I was simply meaning a large number. It just happened I'm conversation. The Jedi could have done the same type of thing in that scene. Edit: Also thanks for making this video. This was actually a public service.

This show is going to create a giant plot hole in Star Wars.

Star Wars fans can be some of the most frustrating people on the planet.

Interesting

Based title

Something people are forgetting or dont know is Darth Bane purposefully let some bandits escape him post battle of Ruson so they would spread word of a survivor of the sith massacre. The intent was to leave the Jedi with a glimmer of doubt when it came to the extinction of the Sith. Over the course of the millenia, the sith were working in the shadows and have had numerous encounters with jedi where the jedi were either unaware of the siths identity or killed for learning of their true nature. So just because Ki Adi Mundi says the sith are beleived to have been extinct for a millenia, does not mean that no jedi has come across rhe sith, or tried to convice the order of the siths existence. For all we know, the jedi, in their arrogance (which is what led to fhe orders destruction), would have willfully ignored if not outright denied the siths existence without hard, irrefutable evidence to the contrary. Also, the Jedi Orders position of sith extinction likely stems from the Sith Order havinf numbers rhat rivaled the Jedi 1000 years ago. So theyd likely think that the Sith, if they ever did return, would do so in large numbers and not just 2 individuals. Again, the jedi had 10k members to their order, so why would yhey think 10k v 2 to be the Siths go to plan. Its this logic, flying under rhe radar, waiting for the Jedi to become lethargic and weak, that is the genius of Banes rule of two

"Impossible. The Sith have been extinct for a millenium. *As far as we know." * Which by the time of the Phantom Menace, wasn't that far apparently. Folks need to think for themselves, and have some imagination, and stop believing a probable sociopath who had Order 66 coming right down on him. Thanks Bakara. Lol.

people dont care about the lore they just don't like disney star wars , the same people would praise the plagius books without having read it

If word does go around in universe, the Jedi denying someone who was a witness is very likely, which can further emphasize how blinded and arrogant the Jedi became. Idk. I just hope it doesn't break the foundation of Lore.

After his first encounter. Qui-Gon describes Maul as "well-trained in the Jedi arts", before he proposes that he is a Sith - which insight itself may be a part of his unique perspective. So dark warriors with red sabres and Jedi training are something the Council is prepared to dismiss as not being Sith, even when they are.

The Sith were a race on Korriban that were discovered by rogue Dark Jedi. After hundreds of years or millennia, they took the name ‘Sith’ to mean their teachings that were contrary to the Jedi order.

All they have to do is add a line of dialogue where someone goes "Is this sith?" And someone else goes "no, just another dark side user"

I would benefit from more descriptive video titles - it’s impossible to parse what you’re making a video about if I don’t have my finger on the pulse of starwars news, and I rely on you to help me keep informed.

the hint is in the title clearly its an acolyte and not a sith, the same could be said as in comparison to sidious and vader being sith, but the inquisitors arent sith technically either, because there can only be two. also the jedi in the clone wars era where prejudice

I can't blame anyone for getting the details of TPM wrong. My brain tries to actively fight of all memory of that movie except for the fight scene.

To answer the title of the video some ppl obviously rode the short bus in school

What if it’s the reason the Jedi pull back from the role they had in the high republic and the council/ Jedi tasked to handle this are like we can’t cause chaos in the expanding republic if the word of sith get out the galaxy would panic and they chose to his it or cover it up and choose to pull back to “prepare for the sith” and then the Jedi forget why they pulled back in the first place entirely by the prequels

1:48 For those who wonder, this art depicts the events of the "Shadow Hunter" novel, in which Maul hunts a year before Episode I a small group of Jedi who accidentally discovered the Rule of Two Dinasty. Pretty reccomended