They want you broke, fearful, helpless, fighting, dumb and ignorant. The system takes from hard working people and gives to the greedy, corrupt liars. Stand up, find your voice and fight back.

Mark Twain - 'If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.'

Privatise the gains, socialise the losses: Capitalism in a nutshell.

I work in healthcare and Grace is CORRECT about the feedback loop from the ground up. So much of the highest management is disconnected from the realities on the ground and horrible decisions are made as a consequence.

"When injustice becomes law, Resistance becomes duty"

‘Workers in a sector, that have expertise in that sector, do not need to be managed’. I completely agree. I started work at a large media organisation in the late ‘80s and had one person between me and director level. When I left there were seven people. Managers managing managers made no sense and made my job a ball ache.

Boeing made $60 Billion in stock buy backs rather than develop safety, better pay, or a new plane. . . ..

I've worked in engineering and research, and often times the projects I worked on were disrupted or sabotaged by management. Management was always the disruption in progress.

Grace is brilliant. I agree in any working place the shop floor will always be the place where innovation and improvements can be found. But it is also true that a good manager is vital and extremely rare and is always recognised by the shop floor workers .

Belief that one is powerless makes one less free.

Good someone else is finally saying this; ive been marginalized all my life as socially maladapted for voicing these realities.

Grace always has an amazing view point

Ah I love Grace. We’re so lucky to have this smart woman fighting for us 🫶🏻

Grace Blakeley is my favorite guest, though Novara has many I enjoy

Unfreedom... Good concept to capture contemporary illusory senses of freedom

Ex workers will not fly on a Boeing plan. That's a staggering piece of information

BIG fan of Grace, looking forward to this… Go on girl….

There seemed to be this suggestion that a group of mechanical engineers would be more capable of running a company than Aaron, which might be true, but isn't even the point. A company wouldn't just be run by engineers. There are accounting, and operations, sales, marketing, quality control, and logistics people, etc. They pool their knowledge, and the result is exponentially better than any group of executives could ever hope to achieve.

The UK has a top heavy government model with the office of the PM being at the top of the hierarchy. We need to take power from the establishment and into our communities.

“If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal,” is a famous quote by Emma Goldman, a Russian-born US political activist, anarchist and writer (1869-1940).

Grace is refreshing on a Monday morning. Great interview.

Not sure I've ever disagreed more with Aaron's points than I have during this episode. Chiefly on managers: my brother, you're giving managers far too much credit, particularly middle management if you think this isn't an easily replaced group; most of these people take a business course that detaches them from reality and fluffs their ego until they simply make bad decisions confidently. Agree wholeheartedly with Grace's final point: power and autonomy for everyone is in and of itself a positive for the individual and society.

We need Grace Blakeley in Italy too

Found this interview so inspirational. Self conscious how bad my individualism is covering my understanding of things

another great adult discussion and conversation covering lots of issues. If only the world of politics could be like this.

A debate between Grace and Liz Truss would be cruel. Grace´s perspective on history is illuminating. Great guest.

Finished reading Vulture Capitalism not 10 minutes ago and this video drops! Moving forward with not just a clearer understanding of the world, but also how to change it!

Grace is so fantastic, I could listen to her all day. She speaks about complex topics in an understandable way and does a good job at joining separate concepts and logical arguments together. I've put her book on my reading list!

We love you grace

great commentary, thanks for always introducing us all to such brilliant new thinkers.

Walk into any Jobcentre and you will instantly understand we are not free, I figured this moons ago.✌

I've got an offer to study Engineering at Cambridge, and Grace's arguments about empowering workers make far more sense to me than any idea that Engineers are more intelligent than the average worker or trade union. Aaron's train signalling problems could be solved far more quickly by the RMT if they had the power to, than by BAE systems.

Galbraith already wrote about the industrial state some 60 plus years ago.The symbiotic relationship between state power and capital is there from the beginning.

Great information from Grace as per, I wish she spoke at the same rate as Norman Finkelstein. And give my brain time to take it all in.

There are always going to be powerful and powerless. No matter the system. As people usually say "Democracy is not a perfect system but it's the best we have", capitalism is similar in this way. It is still the only way where there are some small paths in wich the powerless can have a chance. And the dynamic change of falling and raising powers happens. Other systems though, the cracks are waaay less and way harder to fight against for people to try to change something.

Capitalism for the poor; socialism for the rich. Very sad but very true, unfortunately.

She read Capital but not Republic by Plato, Politics by Aristotle , Wealth of Nations by Smith , Philosophy of Right by Hegel and Utopia by Thomas More.

Just discovered Grace Blakely. Agree or disagree, one gains IQ points just by listening to her.

Always a great guest and I have her book on my birthday wish list. Community Interest Groups (CIGs) are definitely a great way to take back some control at a local level. If you get a chance to join or support a CIG do so with both hands....and if you're lucky enough to be able to financially support CIGs that's a great move also. Loving the new geeky student look Grace!

Fascism="Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” ― Benito Mussolini * We do not have Free Market Capitalism (we have big gov & big corps ... incl cloudalists). * UK GOV c52 % of GDP (China c36%)

Wow. Grace Blakely is superb.

I had a brief conversation with a green councillor recently about proportional representation. He was guardedly supportive citing the risk that it would let right wing representation in as well. I am a great believer in Grace's trust in people. Diversity of opinion is a strength. Testing that opinion in discussion with others is how we develop our thinking and achieve meaningful progress. In the end there is an innate goodness in people which if allowed to will direct their decision making. What gets in the way of this is poverty and being shut out of decision making. This is what gives fascism a voice.

Grace fan here ☝️😎🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🙏

Thanks Grace and Aaron. Looking forward to reading the book. Sad that Novara attracts so many trolls in the comments.

Management is not decision-making. Thank you for this Grace and Aaron.

No one talks about how our society has now entered CLASS MONOPOLY. As monopoly is exclusion of competitors based upon a competitive advantage yielded by scale or State. Now the entire CLASS of rentiers or Owners have placed all other classes into noncompetitive state through the direct control of capital itself... CLASS MONOPOLY

One of the most fundamental points which was not discussed here, and I don't know if Grace addresses it in her book, is that believing in political agency comes from experiencing it. Experiencing it requires achieving it. Achieving it requires defeating and supplanting the current system of political agency in the form of the ruling class. That class will not tolerate even the slightest challenge and its power to suppress has gotten to the point where enormous violence will be required to overthrow it. Being willing to make mortal sacrifices in the class war requires a level of faith in the project and in such enormous numbers that is unimaginable. It seems like a chicken and egg problem.

it's like, why can't we buy a house that we live in for our entire lives? why we have to buy a 'starter house' and move and move again, and again. each time it costs 10k in fees and tax... Just another way we get ripped off. the way we live is so in-efficient, unless you're born into wealth though of course.

Engineers vs Managers: I thought that Grace's response to Aaron's point about Managers was a good one, where she brought up 'Innovation' which she tied to her argument about Freedom. I could feel myself approaching the comments for feedback before she said that. I think that broadly she makes a very good response. Firstly, I haven't been employed for 20 years, but I did study Engineering at Uni. I think, from an Engineering perspective, the way I would frame it would be in terms of Manufacturing vs Products (which I think basically Grace does) rather than Engineers vs Managers the way Aaron posed the question. Or even Manufacturing vs Products like Parents vs Children (to relate it to the last interview with Galloway). For example, a company like Ford and the Managers working within it would place a lot more emphasis on Innovation in the Manufacturing process over Innovation of the Products (Cars) they make - a good example would be in reducing the amount of components they use to make their Cars. So here you could have a hugely 'Innovative' system of repression (as Grace describes) essentially in the way Ford controls the Manufacturing process, making a product that isn't very Innovative (maybe it doesn't push the boundaries of what is possible with Electric Vehicles for example). However, where this gets complicated is when the Technological Innovations in Manufacturing then start to be used in the Products themselves (on one level they'll be cheaper) - the ultimate example would be futuristic Food Replicators (with infinite menu possibilities) or Transporters where the Manufacture and the Product become one and the same entity. But I guess Grace would say here that, despite the infinite possibilities available, everyone would just end up eating Gruel, and maybe she would also say that when you get Transported and turned into a data stream you would actually be killed. Is the structure of our world an inevitable consequence of our connected world though? - to the extent it doesn't matter if we try to make it bottom up rather than top down, it won't change the structure itself? I've taken an interest in the coin flipping game 'winner takes it all' - its a very capitalist way of viewing the world, and the 'winner takes it all' only happens when you have an Authoritarian (knock out rounds) structure to the game where you're only allowed to play two people against each other at a time. Allow everyone to play at once and you'd never get 'winner takes it all' (purely due to probability). The world we have is where some people are allowed to play against more people than others - richer people can play against more people than poorer people can, and so poorer people have worse odds than richer people... So this is either rigged or extremely unlikely.

It’s great that Aaron refences Anarcho Syndicalism at 51:50 when talking about the failings of some trade unions. However Anarcho Syndicalim is more than just member run trade unions: neither Grace or Aaron make reference to the fact that many of the topics they are discussing are actually the basic tenets of Anarcho Sydicalism. I have ordered the book on the strength of the interview and am looking to reading it.

Thank you, Grace. Very interesting and informative.

Capitalism is primarily based on distorted mindsets: it pathologises its own structural shortcomings as if they were isolated issues of the individual whilst distorting the meaning of individual differences until they're utilised to justify decontextualised and/or misplaced hierarchies. Seeing Grace explaining why those distortions are indeed distortions is always a pleasure, she's straight to the point, just let her talk you out of the mud and into actual adulthood.

The part about the Welsh city seems odd. I live in a small town, and I'd love to do projects, like say build a hydroelectric dam or massive solar farm. We have the tractors and know how to do it. The problem is, there is no way in hell we'd be allowed to do it. And even if you were, if you were forced to buy the land there is no way the cost to do the project would be feasible. How is that little Welsh city getting around the legal structures to actually be allowed to do things that serve their local community? Here in Canada the vast majority of that would be illegal. I agree that people should fix local problems, and it's not that we haven't thought of doing that... we're just not allowed to. 🤷‍♂️

I always found one of the ugliest lies peddled by the right, by the free market disciples is the so called "freedom of choice". This lie is meant to appeal to people's innate fear of losing out. Based on the inane assumption that the players in a free market are not first and foremost preoccupied with making money. Of course, as most people know, the fear of losing out is the key ingredience of aggressive marketing.

Brilliant interview

Collectivism requires various things one of which is time, the most underrated asset, the asset which truly exemplifies freedom - which is increasingly being taken from us. For example our own admin which is ballooning, counter intuitively, with the increasing reliance on the internet. Business, or government, has moved their admin on to us under the guise of making things cheaper, or more empowering, when in reality is only making their profits greater and their control easier. In effect we are all now doing their admin for them for free, whilst at the same time giving away our freedom.

When I come across channels like this I'm reminded that there is no limit to how far motivated reasoning can take us. High IQ people are no more immune, but simply travel the path they've chosen faster.

Liked her giving the Blairite Lisa Nandy on Question Time a smack down for stealing Jeremy Corbyn's policy of taking the railways back in to public ownership!

FREE MARKET: Refer Hudson's " J is for JUNK ECONOMICS " is the opposite of FREE. But free to exploit your fellow countrymen with overpriced services because you control a vital resource which once was publically owned and provided at cost or even really free. But is now used for rent extraction by extraction of profit on top and shareholder dividends and is not reinvested in such as water services: A rentier economy.

A relatively young person of great promise. A bit animated, but passion in these times is both good and needed.

Sounds like Grace, Richard Wolff and Michael Hudson are traveling on the same 'Superhighway' ❣️ Regards, Viet vet/Ecologist VFP

Viva la revolución 🇨🇺

that was fantastic. thank you!

1 more copy sold. engaging, clear explanation of what to expect.

How is Grace not a model. She is stunning

38:37 no true Marxist would deny that even demand itself is dynamic rather than static!

i love this woman

Good points about people being able to organize and have the responsibility to participate in the governing apparatus

I bet the corporate/governmental administrative elites are really worried by conversations like this; yeah right! Students and liberal elites have been talk-festing just so for decade upon decade. As a commentator below in the youtube comments remarks "When injustice becomes law, Resistance becomes duty". The latter is the only right comment in the face of the uniparty regimes in the UK, USA, NZ.

I'm generaly on the right of politics, but this was a really good debate between both Grace & Aaron.

Excellent genuine Marxist analysis, not distracted by form but rooted in the material substance of power.

Weird. I didn't think I would share so much common perspective with someone self described as coming from a Marxist context. I agree that government sponsored monopoly power is highly undesirable

1:05:00 incidentally a good explanation of the US elections in 2016.

To your point about Elon not wanting to serve the wider market with cheap sustainable cars...this is back to front. The reason he started off selling roadsters to his billionaire friends was SO THAT he could generate enough capital and IP to ramp up production and drive down end user cost...over the course of a decade...which is what we are seeing with the Model 3

Grace for Prime Minister. Her book is excellent, and so is this talk. Thanks.

I think he isn’t understanding her critique on the entrepreneur genius leader. Yes they can problem solve and innovate to create new material progress for people. However, they are often not interested in the quality of lives of their actual workers and what sacrifices they are making for their employee. In Kant words they are of the ‘end justifies the means’ philosophy, not caring how things get done, just that they meet the deadline. Capitalism often denies the Buddhism truism of all we have is now, if we are working in bad conditions we are being robbed of life. Humans aren’t lazy to want a life that is balanced. As a teacher I see how overworked parents are, meaning they spend less time with their family. There is much more to life that just work and work should have a sense of dignity and humanity not just a focus on efficiency.

Enticing vision of a system that takes some of the best notions from both the capitalist and socialist ideologies. Love listening to (and looking at) Grace! Keep up the good work!

Amazing stuff. I am really worried now that the much used analogy of Starmerite Labour and the Tories being " two cheeks of the same arse" is maybe quite accurate! Help! I really enjoyed this and thanks for presenting so much food for thought.

So glad this wasn't a circle jerk and Aaron pushed back on ideas. If I could buy a budget EV Porsche with a 700 mile range, sounds good. I suppose that's why they're gonna stick 100% "free market" tariffs on them! 😅

brilliant chat

Just because some people are more able (better), than other it does not mean they have to be infinitely rewarded.

Thank you

The technology has changed, yet the political process has stayed the same.

Grace has a mind like a diamond! 😁

Aaron went down a really weird hole in the 2nd half of this. Essentially claiming that there are individuals so brilliant they have single handedly created their own billion dollar companies. But they haven't. The innovations within those companies, the manufacturing power, the systems and processes - they are all created by hundreds of people. The owner/ceo just had the money to pay to find those solutions. The owner/ceo doesn't have any of the intelligence or knowledge to do that. They're just the owner. They just have the money to pay someone else to be intelligent. Sure. Management is a thing. But it's no more skilled than a social worker. And CEO's/shareholders don't manage. They pay other people to manage. They pay other people to understand aspects of the company and to report their recommendations.

Regarding innovation...a huge majority of American innovation was based on massive government intervention. From direct financing to funding research universities. Its public money for private profit

More grace please ❤❤❤❤❤

Good discussion - can not agree more !

...this is like watching the same historic mistakes being made again and again, stuck in an endless loop. The debate is very simple, there are two interpretations of freedom, individual freedom based on personal agency (positive freedom), and collective freedom based on individual restraint (negative freedom). If you want more collective freedom (classical liberal position), you go back to Smith and Keynes, and you put restrictions on rent. That's it, it goes no further than that, no need for any more talking, it's that simple.

Work or starve, there is no choice in capitalism.

Great show, great guest!

Laissez-faire was mentioned here in Ireland during the famine, the British limited government aid on the basis of those principles.

Management companies, like accounting firms, are for for hire, and for fire, if they don't meet the needs of worker-owners and their customers/clients. The goal of every company should be operation in perpetuity. Perhaps worker-coop management companies and accounting and law firms. Keep the conversation open.

All good, agree totally with Grace but I remember Co-ops, squats and communes, there's always at least one "you can't tell me what to do", always one "look it's my idea so I'm in charge" always one "I did that yesterday it's not my turn" and many, many arguments due to peoples ego's and self importance. I have been saying for years people equate freedom simplistically with choices, choices of breakfast cereal, toilet roll, of house, holiday destination and car. Forty years plus since Thatcher stepped into No.10, what was once public is now private and now you can't even swear and get angry without risk of prosecution.

Glad to see this finally ! In capitalism, we are enslaved ultimately to money and its works.

"You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

The Chinese hybrid system is the only system that is getting real tangible results. State Capitalism.

Regulated markets reduce negative freedom but increase other goods, tax funded public goods increase positive freedom. This is well known like math not politics.

Interesting stuff.

All governments are social constructs by nature. Communities come together to create them to take disseminate services to their mutual benefit. These government flavors occupy different places on the spectrum of whichever dimensional analysis you choose. We would be better served as a people to start here when discussing what we do want governments to do and not to do for them to be more effective.