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It's incredibly ironic how DC's management disregarded Kirby's work on Fourth World at the time, but these days they're clinging to Darkseid like a life preserver.

It's always a bummer to learn how disrespected Kirby was in the industry back in the day, at both Marvel and DC. It's wonderful that he's recognized today as the comics pioneer that he truly was, but I wish he could have enjoyed some of that glory back when he was doing all the work.

While Kirby's first stint with Marvel is iconic, his tenure with DC should be regarded highly too. His work on New Gods, Mister Miracle, OMAC, Kamandi, and The Demon was exemplary work. He definitely did not get enough appreciation from his contemporaries.

As the King said himself, "Comics will break your heart"

This is all really interesting but what’s joker’s favorite sandwich??

I always love revisiting Kirby's time at DC, especially Jimmy and the beginnings of the Fourth World. It's fascinating how the company did so much to erase his visual identity only to re-incorporate it over the years. I really don't think the DC Universe would look or feel the same without him. Fantastic work as always, Owen!

Let's not forget that DC also sabotaged "Spirit World" and "In the days of the Mob", the two non-superhero projects Kirby wanted to do after Forth World. Apparently, Kirby just wanted to establish Forth World and its characters and then step aside, let others take the reins, with him as editor/coordinator. His goal was to create more prestige books with "Spirit..." and "In the days...", but DC did everything they could to stop those plans.

Now Owen has to make the “Jokers Favorite Sandwich” video

Jack Kirby is the most influential artist in all of media not just comics. His imagination and boundless storytelling is top notch he is the king for a reason it's a crime that DC erased his superman's face

It always makes me smile when I finish an episode of season 3 or 4 of Young Justice and get to see Jack Kirby's name credited with all the characters he created.

Erasing Kirby's Superman faces was probably the biggest insult of the many that DC heaped upon Kirby! It wasn't just to protect their brand, it was spiteful!

Hearing that Kirby didn't want to over run other creatives work when given the chance at some of the biggest characters makes you respect him 1000000 times more.

14:06 Having Coletta specifically "correct" Kirby's art was a bad call given how unsuited he was to ink Kirby's pencils in general.

Way back in the seventies when I first read the Kirby Jimmy Olsen comics I immediately noticed that they were re-drawing Kirby's Superman faces. It was so obvious.

I really enjoy Jack Kirby's work. He's been a lifetime inspiration for me, and a major influence on my own work. I am known as someone who can draw in many different styles and ways, having being self-taught before my stint at the Joe Kubert School, but I learned a great deal about dynamics and dimension from Kirby's work. He was one of the few artists that actually changed the superhero comic book landscape. Before Jack Kirby, a lot of artist depicted heroes in fairly static poses, even while in the midst of an action scene. Kirby really changed all that. Kirby's figure were dynamic and three-dimensional. They were exciting to look at, and put special emphasis on the actions at hand. Kirby's heroes leaped off the page! They grabbed me in a big way when I was a kid, and still do! Several years back, I did an illustration of Bashful Ben Grimm, better known as the Thing as a commission for a friend. I drew it in a very Kirby-esque style because it's Jack's original version will always be my favorite, and I consider his version to be the BEST version. I hope you like seeing it here. I'll post a link below. Thank you for the great video! I don't know that I learned anything new from it that I didn't already know, but it's always great to see Jack's work flashing on my computer screen, and just as nice hearing people talk about his legacy. I look forward to future videos! www.lostonwallace.com/thingcollage100.jpg

It always makes me sick to my stomach when an entertainment based company (comics, wrestling, blog, etc) is able to acquire their direct competitions top attraction, only to purposely bury them to make the organization, as a whole, look better then their competitors. It does not. Ever. All it does is make the company look like it is run by half wits that don’t know how to book themselves out of a wet paper bag, even when they have absolute gold on their payroll.

The fact that Kirby didn't hold any bitterness toward those who wronged him is why he is the GOAT

Imagine a comic book company that had given Kirby the respect and control he deserved. Stunning.

I can’t believe that DC did Kirby dirty but I’m glad he was able to do something he wanted in the end.

Great video as always, Owen! Love every time you dig into Kirby’s history.

So basically, DC getting Jack Kirby to draw Superman is like getting Todd McFarlane to draw 'My Little Pony'. Kirby does tend to draw blocky looking hands, but adding A classically drawn Superman face onto of those designs kinda defeats the purpose of having A Kirbyesque looking Superman.

They need to re-release those books with Kirby's original Superman artwork.

I remember reading this story from " Was Superman a Spy?" Book that covered this and many other comic 'incidents' in the business! Personally I do agree DC went too far sabotaging Kirby's work; whether this be by erasing Superman's face or meddling with his introduction of The New Gods...DC just forced the King to leave. That's not how you treat a great artist, and sadly, he wouldn't be the last...

It should be noted that DC leadership (Paul Levitz and Jenette Kahn specifically I believe) wanted Kirby to do character redesigns of his Fourth World characters for the new toy line specifically so that he would be entitled to royalties for those characters (as the royalty program did not exist when he created them). Kudos to them for trying to do right by him when so many others didn’t.

Would love a follow up video to this covering Kirby’s return to Marvel with his Black Panther series and how that ties into Christopher Priest’s run in the early 2000’s

I love Kirby's work. Fantastic Four naturally the most, but his Super Powers felt, ironically, like breath of fresh air and is still rereadable by me. When I was small Kirby was a DC guy, but his Marvel works were being reprinted in the giant-sized issues and were readily available still for 10c at yard sales and flee markets. What a shame that neither company gave the gifted man the respect he had coming. I near these days Ordway and even Byrnes are being ignored for projects for the same silly reason of being supposedly "outdated". True art is always a pleasure to behold.

About a month ago, I looked at a trade paperback of The Forever People, and Superman's face was the first thing I noticed. Knowing how a) Stan Lee would add notes on pages to redraw characters (like "Johnny looks too much like Reed here.") and b) even some of his renderings of real people (such as a villain with John Lennon's face) would devolve within a few panels into his usual style; I had wondered if DC had asked him to redraw Supes, or had someone redraw him.

I got to know Jack Kirby just slightly. I was Manager of a San Diego Comic store from 1984 to the late 90s (I was also at every Comic Con from 1975 when I first met him), when I returned to my home town and owned my own Store until near the the end of 2008. I had some long talks with Jack Kirby. I can say that, at least to me, he said he was very unhappy during his last year at DC. The fans had basically rejected his Fourth World (it later gained popularity), the only real star of his Fourth World was Darkseid, a rare Villain capable of going toe to toe with Superman. The only thing Jack was doing that was selling was Kamandi, which, by his standards, was hackwork as he was basically ripping off Planet of the Apes. A year later he seemed happy to be returning to Marvel. But, by that time his skills as writer and artist had deteriorated and he again felt slighted by Marvel.

"Joker's Favorite Sandwich" NEXT!!

Even though curt swan is my prefered superman artist and my favorite superman design is the fleischer superman, I still love jack's interpetation of him.

It's crazy to see how complicated comic history can be! I also love how apparent it is that a lot of work goes into making a video like this. And yes, we're waiting on that "Joker's Favorite Sandwich" video.

I was a marvel fan most of my life but through a friend Superman became one of my favorite characters. I love this channel you make some of the best content on KZfaq

I think it should be emphasized that when Kirby didn’t want to replace an existing creative team it was specifically because he didn’t want to take other peoples’ jobs away from them. The man lived through the Great Depression, and I think it probably informed a lot of his own beliefs and behavior.

Hey, make a video on Jokers favorite sandwich, just an idea LOL

I am into seven decades and I had never seen Kirby's Superman. Effin' breathtaking. Who knew?

You're killing it, Owen! I loved this video.

The Superman image at 19:05 shows how much of an influence Kirby must have been on Darwyn Cooke

Great video! Thanks for the insight on the happenings during this era for Kirby. It's really crazy to see how much drama always seems to happen behind the scenes of comic book companies in any age. For all their drama with Jack Kirby, he gave them the beginnings of a cosmic masterpiece and he delivered on his idea of creating timeless characters. To this day, the New Gods, the Demon, and Kamandi all still pop pretty consistently in comics and other media. As well, Jack gave DC their ultimate villain. While Lex Luthor and Joker were still trying to figure out how to rob banks and make themselves richer, Jack gave them Darkseid, a being who wanted to enslave and recreate the universe in his image. He is still the ultimate villain at DC to this day. To finish, I remember getting Jack's Super Powers comics and loving how I could finally see my favorite characters drawn in Jack's style. I only wish that Mike Royer had inked that series too. It was always magic when those two worked together.

It was definitely a power struggle with people on both sides within DC. After Kirby, Jimmy Olsen went back to his pre-Kirby stories for a little while, but in only a few more years he was in new adventure stories with the Newsboy Legion and Guardian all over again in Superman Family. It just took a few of the old guard to move on and more young turks writing and editing. DC has been regularly mining the Kirby IP ever since.

So just to make sure that I'm getting this straight, because I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting this straight: DC Comics told "The King" Jack Kirby that he could pretty much do whatever he wanted with whatever book he was assigned to, and then when he exactly does just what he wanted, DC Comics decided that he shouldn't do whatever he wanted. Just because it's Superman. If DC Comics didn't like Jack Kirby drawing Superman, which by sounds indisputably AWESOME, then why not let him have free reign on any other book not related to the Big Three. Whatever he did would have been just amazing.

To me it boggles my mind that DC would brag about getting Jack Kirby, then do everything in their power to make the art not look like Jack Kirby. At that point, I feel like what even was the point? 😅 (For what it’s worth, based on just the images shown here from that later work shown in the 80s, I think Kirby’s Superman came across as rather dashing…but Superman is my favorite DC hero, so maybe I’m a bit biased lol…😅) Another fantastic video! Well done! I don’t know a lot about Kirby’s time with DC, being a newbie and mostly a Marvel reader so I appreciate the knowledge you impart in your videos! 👍🏽

Jack Grimes played Jimmy on the Superman radio show. Jack Larson portrayed him on tv, a decade later.

I know some of these editors and corporate snobs at DC gave the excuse that they wanted to change Kirby's Superman to 'fit the house style' or 'to get one over on Marvel'; but the real reason is they just thought his artstyle was ugly. They were just too afraid to say it because of the scrutiny they'd receive by dissing an iconic artist. Shoot, I can say it with a strait face that at some of his work on people IS UGLY! VERY UGLY! But that's fine. His arts is his own and he's still fantastic! That's why folks wanted to read his works and see his spin on Superman! Sadly DC rarely let him do even that.

The Fourth World is the absolute peak of comic books to me. Edit: excepting the meddling with Kirby’s artwork

"Comics will break your heart". It's the comment I think about way too often when I think of Jack Kirby

Excellent video as always! Kirbys time at DC is always so strange to me, but its fascinating to revisit!

This video will be one of the most important historic discoveries in the history of making or history in general

You inserted the cover to Challengers of the Unknown #3 from 1958 in the video. That one cover alone destroys Stan Lee's claim that he created the Fantastic Four.

I feel more than giving insight into what happened between Kirby and DC this video also gives an idea of just what kind of person Kirby himself was

This is just like when a good history teacher gives you a lesson about something and you actually get pissed off for the people that experienced it

Jolly good review sir. Nice collab. Those Kirby mini comics and the Kenner Super Powers figures are iconic.

Thank you for the amazing video, Owen.

Thanks for including Scott from Nerdsync! He's a cool and awesome fellow covering comics!

Back in 1984 I was taking drum lessons from a punk rock drummer and a guy in one of his bands has a Gibson SG with Jack Kirby's Cap punching Hitler airbrushed on it.

Really well done. Thank you so much for the presentation. 😉👌🏼✨

Great work as ever Owen Question. Have you ever or would you ever do a piece on: Deadman The Spectre The Creeper Metamorpho?

9:04 According to Jim Salicrup, another reason for all the "Silver Age Silliness" was because writers would adapt ideas submitted by actual kids

A yes, Scott sticking true to his nature, giving context

This is a cool idea for a video and is executed brilliantly.

Fantastic video, really excellent.

A great and informative video!

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Even though DC erased his Superman face they made sure that he was taken care of via their toy line.When they released their Super Powers line of toys they included several of his characters and had him do the art on the comic that came out at the time earning him royalties from the toys.

The Behind-the-scenes-Dramatics have always been (and probably still are) absolutely bonkers.

Such an infuriating story for me every time I hear it. Altering an artist's work like this is such a huge insult to begin with. But to have done it to Kirby is just insane. It was Curt Swan that usually redrew the faces I believe. A great artist but not on Kirby's level. He should have declined to do that.

Hiring Jack Kirby and then having his art redrawn is like ordering a hot brownie ala mode, then turning full Karen because it's not a cold cookie with butter cream...

I think Joker's favorite sandwich is a Candwich

This seems like the way it always is in the entertainment world: 1) Big media company hires famous artist. 2) Artist produces material in their style. 3) Company says, "No, not like that, like we've been doing it for the last fifty years." 4) Artist says "Then why tf did you hire me?" 5) Artist and company compromise and release a bastard product halfway between both styles. 6) Product fails. 7) Company blames artist.

Jeez, what a way to disrespect a legend. Thanks for covering this, I only had a vague idea about Kirby's troubles at DC.

Thank you! It’s great to see and understand what Jack Kirby was creating with Superman.

Great video. I wish you had been able to include some shots of the DC Direct New Gods action figures from 2008-2009. Eight figures were directly based on Jack Kirby‘s artwork. Series 2 featured Superman.

Excellent video I hope you do more Kirby vids like his creator own work and later marvel stuff like eternals and machine man and devil dinosaur

Awhile back when I watched your video on mister miracle I loved it so much I went out and bought the comic so I could read it. Thank you for getting me into mister miracle

Dope. Had no idea DC did The King dirty like that. It's ridiculous, given that the guy just handed them their Ultimate Big Bad whose well they keep going back to for some kind of compelling plot. But unless you're Grant Morrison, apparently you're destined to not understand how to write an actually good line like "the hole shaped like God."

Jack Kelk and Jack Grimes played Jimmy Olsen on the Superman radio show. Jack Larson was Jimmy on the “Adventures of Superman” TV show with George Reeves.

jack kirby so fucking cool

Kirby’s late period work was dismissed and disparaged by the companies that are making movies about it now.

Considering you did a video on justice league international a video on the new human target by Tom king would be dope

Is really curious, I always read how bad they treated Jack Kirby in Marvel, but almost never read about his bad experience in DC.

The editors from DC at the time should've just let him do his thing. That being said, I'm not fond of Kirby's art style

Drawing over somebodies art has got to be one of the most disrespectful things a company can do to an artist.

Owen, I love your work. But I will be very motived to sub if theres a Joker's favourite sandwich video.

the next video better be about Joker's favorite sandwich, or we will riot!

Jack Kirby did his best work for Marvel. He did, however, work for just about every other company that was around in the 1950s, 60s and 1970s. I can understand the need to have Superman have a certain look. Someone messing with Kirby's art though was really insulting.

This is great and all, but I do want that sandwich story Owen

I’d do a 2 part issue. Jimmy Olsen’s One Night Stand And Lois Lane’s Darkest Secret.

Owen, I wonder what joker’s favorite sandwich would be. Any interest in making a video?

THE KING!

Is there any collected edition of Kirby’s work at DC with his art unchanged? Or even better, depicted as it originally was before being redrawn?

I love Reed Tucker's Slugfest book. Has some great stories. My favorite is the Man Thing Swamp Thing story.

Jack Kirby will _always_ be the King of Comics!

Can you do a video about the earth one superman comics. When I read it, it had a lot of potential that people don't give a lot thought to it.

Kirby’s style on super man is kinda interesting gives him more of an alien vibe, a face that shared a little more with the likes of Zodd

It really is hard to imagine the DCU without Kirby's concepts, like the Fourth World, Intergang, and Project Cadmus.

Priority One should be to worry about why they've been erasing Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel's Superman.

Hi Owen. I love you

I not only want, i need g video on jokers favorite sandwich and why!

i love jack kirby superman run.

It is really ironic how Jack Kirby's draw of Superman looks a lot like Tom Welling kkkkkkk