It’s all good homie I appreciate your enthusiasm and research. I feel like your an old friend tossing around ideas keep it up man love the videos and I’ll keep on coming back

It's all good your great.

DB is such a long manga it is easy to get off a few things from time to time. Also its always good to share your learning, thank you for today's video.

@@Saiya6CIT I love the content it's so pleasing. Informing.

*DBZ KAKAROT IS CANON* and said *VEGETA HAD SSJ2 BEFORE HE WENT MAJIN!* .... *END OF STORY!*

That's a great point!

Seems about right

No vegeta was happy to find goku was much stronger than ss2 gohan meaning he was already stronger than that when he got ss2.

xSora Kazamax I agree, it seemed like Vegeta was already stronger than Gohan was

@@xsorakazamax7522 Nah, in terms of raw power, Vegeta was equal to 11y.o ss2 Gohan. He was berating Gohan on lack of skill.

I'm not even sure this is correct. See, during his battle with Goku, Vegeta says he allowed Babidi's magic to effect him as he wanted Babidi to "awaken the evil in my heart". I think Vegeta had the power we see even as Majin Vegeta, all along. Babidi's magic didn't make him stronger, it made him evil again - detached him from "weak" emotions, thereby better allowing him to fight more effectively. To get my point across, compare a normal person's strength when they're in a level headed mindset, vs that same person in an enraged/deranged mindset. The later will demonstrate more strength, aggression and resilience even though they haven't actually gained any muscle. Potentially all Babidi's magic did was just make Vegeta evil, may not have even given him a power boost. Or at most, unleashed his hidden potential similar to Elder Namek unleashing Gohan's hidden power.

Wow great analysis Nice! I think it's a sound theory and I wish I could have included it in the video. Oh well. it just makes so much sense what you said, especially theorising the trigger for SS2.

@@KaioshinCurt Thank you! Not going to lie, it would be awesome seeing a video that my perspective or theory helped inspire or bring understanding to. Anyway, as it is now, I'm glad to see that what I said helped. That's good enough for me.

well put bro

The Game DBZ kakarot explains what happened after cell games and why Vegeta decided to keep on training. DBZ kakarot extea bits are canon as they were written by AT, there's even special canon info from AT about zenkais and saiyan tails and explanation about some humans being animals, all written by Toriyama.

I agree. it would have been nice to see the majin posession in other characters, right?

@@Saiya6CIT it depends. if goku got majin abilities it would have been game over across the board BUT we would have likely seen a mastered ssj3! The idea of gohan frigin scares me tho. Dude would go full broly on the rage tip lol

I doubt Babidi's magic would have worked against Goku or Gohan since it only works against people who have some evil inside them. Babidi was only able to cast in on Vegeta 'cos he allowed himself to be affected by it, but even he wasn't evil enough to be controlled by Babidi.

yes I agree with you, it wouldn't have worked like the Devilmite beam didn't against Goku either

@@Saiya6CIT We actually did. Spopovich was actually a regular guy with hair in the 24th World Martial Arts Tournament. He comes back as majin in the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament. Maybe the side effect of being Majin is baldness??

Super Kami Guru?

absolutely Scott!

I WANNA, I WANNA BE A SSJ2!

@@barryslayer5582 pushed it to the limit, and dared to believe he could ascend super Saiyan, and he did it all his way.

Appreciate it mate, welcome to the channel :)

Yes thanks, sure thing mate :)

yes Vegeta needed to master it completely, but yes either he didn't spend the time or it was just beyond his grasp and talent in those years

Get that trash outta my face always bring god ki combinded with ssj transformation this is why no likes your characters they aren't interesting

And no one liked your comment but you lol

@@emanueldargan9934 what?

@@saudbintalib5701 your the type of person to name your character goku and they look nothing like goku

Please don't be unkind mate, that was uncalled for.

Thanks for the sub! appreciate you bro

Wow, thanks Victor!

Shut up he achieved ssj2 from 7 years of training end of discussion kid.

You're welcome Albert

Thanks for the idea my mate and for looking out for me :)

thank you, I appreciate the feedback :)

Thanks and I will do Wayne :) be well and safe

thank you Omar, nice to see you!

pero que veo? otro dragon ball hermano?

@@Saiya6CIT Simon amigo. Buen gusto a mirar otro paisano Amar dbz

Thanks :)

Vegeta doesn't need any help

​@@greek_methistakesyeah right, he just gave up HIS PRIDE to get help from Babidi, that's how far behind Goku he is. LMAO.

Thanks Jordan! I would do a video on it, but I'll probably include it in another bigger video at some point. I don't actually think he was using SS2 as in the manga, there was no lightning bolts around him at all in any of the panels. It's weird though!

@@KaioshinCurt he never went ssj2, he couldnt hold the form for a long time.

@@HentaiGod-sama well in the anime he did go ssj2 against kabito.

ah yeah good point Dylan. Even the Games can help us get things right some times LOL. I think I misunderstood before, or maybe the English Dub I originally watched says different to the Japanese.

@@KaioshinCurt it's all good Curt. We all make mistakes and you went back to fix em. I like that🙂

Thanks Trav!

Yeah I agree that's an awesome video suggestion! Hope you're well mate, and your studies are good :)

totally right vegeta would not have reacted lightly if he had not achieved SSJ2 hilmself.

Goku also had more free time to train as he didn't need to sleep when he was dead.

Haha yeah Vegeta just might have broke the chamber multiple times. We don't know though unfortunately. Thanks and that's a good lesson working smarter not harder. I need that too!

Glad I could help and I used to think that even until last week. I think it's because of some dialogue in the English Dub which may have misled me.

Thanks! Actually, it wasn't Babidi's magic. Vegeta trained to achieve SS2 through harsh training in the seven year time gap

@@KaioshinCurt yessir i got those answers from google but now ik how he achieved

yes absolutely Scott, that's what I think too

Thanks, and I also was in the magic camp until I fully researched this. I watched the English dub years ago, and there may have been some bad translation in there I'm not sure. But in the original Japanese, there isn't really a basis for the magic unlocking SS2.

Thanks as always mate!!

am kaioshin curt do u have dragon ball legends

Thank you so much :)

yes I really want to do a video on Majin Vegeta, but I can't just yet as I need more subs to rank.

@@KaioshinCurt heard that man. Good luck man love the content

Thanks 👍

Hey Saiya, Thanks for expanding on point 3. That makes sense and I was thinking on the same lines but didn't quite know how to word it :)

You're welcome, my views were challenged too by the manga, but it's best to believe the manga as it's the original source.

I find it fascinating that vegeta and goku are the only two pure saiyan left alive (canon pre super and broly im talking here) and they have chose so different paths of power leveling, each of them creating an unique evolution of the warrior saiyan race.

I don't think he could to be honest, because Majin Vegeta couldn't defeat Majin Buu, but Goku stated using Super Saiyan 3, he could have defeated Buu. I think it's already explained in the manga, so I couldn't make a video on it, sorry mate :)

I disagree when you watch Babidi turning Majin Vegeta, he does the takeover in 2 steps 1. He turns you Majin locking you in the mind control 2. He unlocks your potential (this to me has a similar meaning to Guru powering up Gohan and Krillin) I think it is very likely that if Vegeta was already confident that he could defeat Dabura he was at least SS2 Teen Gohan level by then The thing with him watching the Goku vs Yakon fight is that he realized that Goku had such a deep well of power that his SS2 was way stronger than when even Gohan was considered at his strongest during the Cell Saga. So he then seeks Majin because he knows that he couldn't compete with the training that Goku was undergoing in the Afterlife. There is no evidence that Babidi "gives" people transformations Also I think people don't appreciate how much stronger Goku and Vegeta were as SS2s vs how strong SS2 Teen Gohan was vs Cell. They still thought that if Gohan fought correctly even being weaker that he could face someone who was on Super Perfect Cells level. I disagree with Kaioshin Curt on this one, Goku was referring to Super Perfect as he helped Gohan with his confidence boost by using a projection of himself for the Father Son Kamehameha. They still thought that Adult Gohan could beat this Dabura. So this Gohan was weaker but he wasn't that much weaker and Fat Buu just destroyed Dabura with zero effort. He also easily defeated Gohan Majin Vegeta was beating the crap out of Buu for a while before he gassed himself out So this combined with all of what I said makes me think that this wasn't Vegetas first use of this form and it is easier to believe that his power jump from Majin was Teen Gohan level maybe slightly stronger to being immensely stronger.

@@skezeksskybreaker5425 one thing you got wrong the difference between guru and babadi. Gurus unlocks hidden potiental and you have to find the rest of the power on your own while babadi enhances your powers stronger then the normal capabilities bringing out vegetas ssj2.. yeah babidi doesn't give transformations but he surely did unlocks the gates inside vegeta to become one. 1. If vegeta already had ssj2 and knows goku had ssj2 as well he would've fought goku to see where they stood in terms of power without any enhancements. But he obviously felt stronger than gohan due to the lack of gohans training and knew goku being dead is the only one who could match him. If that were the case right? Goku being ssj2 normally no magic is even with a Majin vegeta ssj2 ...how could this be the case if ssj2 is set at the almost near the same level. Vegeta ssj2 is drawing out a whole lot more power while goku casually being even with him.. you'd think babadi brought out vegetas hidden power . ssj2 should almost come to rivaling 3 if it was really a power amp of ssj2. If that was the case then vegeta barley got a amp at all if he was just nearly rivaling goku in normal ssj2 with no majin boost. Now if vegeta himself majin form ssj2 and all with babadi amp can only get even with gokus ssj2.. that has to mean vegeta is only ssj2 with a M on his head and mind controlled.. and his majin form doesn't exceed the ssj2s power and capabilities due to that being vegetas limit and doesn't really give him the massive boost in power he really desired..but that was the power boost he thought he needed to surpass goku but only made it a even in the end. He had super vegeta which obviously could be trained to match up against but not beat ssj2 ..but giving him ssj2 gave him confidence because he thought that's where goku stood at as well because he never knew of ssj3. Now you could say this too goku was holding back in ssj2 state knowing he pushed the capabilities of ssj2 for some time. And vegetas majin amp gave him the power to rival goku max ssj2 state making it even.. but that wouldn't even be a difference in power to much because ssj2 was a set level in strength at the time. Goku having ssj3 at his disposal goku knew it would crush vegetas pride. Which it did in the end of z it made him accept goku as the best. Because knowing he needed magic to amp his abilities and still not matching him goku is always one step ahead of him.. if it was the case vegeta got ssj2 on his own he wouldn't even bother feelings like a failure in the end because he'd just train as hard to achieve ssj3 on his own knowing he couldn't...he felt no power amps or mind controlled boosts wouldn't ever get him that far even training

@@GANGSTARSWAGS Vegeta saw the power goku had in SS2 when he went up against Yakon. Only then he knew he wasn't a match for him. But also he wanted to use turning Majin as an excuse to fight Goku at an inappropriate time because Goku only had 24hrs in the living world. The finding potential for Guru isn't a massive difference it is just slower to take effect than the Majin unlock. When releasing the persons potential at the time it helps them realize what they were fully capable at the time and unlocks a gate like you said. The only difference I saw with Krillin for example is that is slowly unlocked his power through the Frieza saga and reached 75k by the time the arc was over. It didn't seem like he did anything special to unlock this and it was just a power increase over time. Also if you are implying that Vegeta cheated I find it to be less of a cheat since it is power within him already and Goku had the advantage of working with a body in the afterlife that can handle way more than his normal one which allowed him to push himself further than anyone on earth could. So I still think Vegeta had SS2 before Majin and just became a stronger SS2 after. I also think he was really even with Goku so if he could have trained the same way in the afterlife he had at the very least enough of a power level to transform into SS3.

@@skezeksskybreaker5425 Correct. You don’t obtain new transformations from simple power boosts. Also it is highly unlikely that Vegeta was depending on Gohans SSJ2 level to become weaker than his SSJ level. It’s silly to think that.

thanks for your thoughts Richard :) you can always call things out that aren't correct in my videos. I'm always trying to learn the correct details

Kaioshin Curt cool 😀 yeah and of course ur not one of those stupid people lol 😅 i just meant it in general i don't get into DBZ comment section debates lol it gets really intense and can go on for years lmfao

Kaioshin Curt i also wanna say that goku knew of super perfect cell's power level from the other world from king kai's planet, he could sense cells power and gohan's power, that's how he knew gohan wasn't using he's full power in that final beam struggle wit cell, goku had to yell and bark on gohan to not worry about damaging the earth and let his full power rip, so guku knew how strong super perfect cell was and basically felt dabara was just as strong, im not the only one who's made this claim, well known youtubers have come to the same conclusion

I thought ssj3 is a 10x multiplyer

Wow that makes sense. I know of course King Kai could sense power levels from his planet, but I was somehow assuming Goku didn't know how to do that yet as he hadn't got much experience of ki sensing at that distance. But I agree, it must have been that he sensed Super Perfect Cell.

Babidi said that while he was changing Vegeta into a Majin

i think it unlocks power but necessarely the ssj2 which I believe he achieved prior to the majin possesion.

@@Saiya6CIT i mean its a possibility but I feel that if he had already achieved the ssj2 prior to the possession, he wouldn't have been as pissed off as he was while explaining his reasons of giving into babidi. I know he looked surprised when he briefly saw Goku go ssj2 against Yakon but even still, he could've sensed that Goku was on equal par with him if not greater.

If thats the case then that means Vegeta's limit is SSJ2 or else he should have achieved SSJ3, which I think Goku said would have been nigh impossible to achieve on Earth which is why he was able to achieve it in the afterlife; but a magical unlock would maybe negate that. (SSJ God obviously doesnt count since you need multiple Saiyans to unlock that and SSJ Blue doesn cWount either since you need to be taught by Angels for that plus have SSJ God as a prerequisite, And SSJ4, while not canon, wouldnt count either since you need a tail and to go Golden Ozaru first.)

@@marcustuggles8761 plus he didnt think much of Gohan given him slacking off.