Oh dear. This video is so troublesome to me, because it seems like such a let down compared to your usual fund of knowledge. Worse, its spirit breaks the usual ethic I admire you for-namely eschewing the manipulative marketing strategies of certain manufacturers. Starting in many ways with the brands you champion in this video, I’ll leave that there. Can we take a bit of a broader, pragmatic view of what one truly needs to address the digital to analog conversion process in our audio setups? Because if we started with another, less costly DAC in the first place, we’d have to revisit wholesale what the true utility of a DDC is. Let’s start by staying in the digital realm, because that’s where we are. We have a signal path to attend to. And despite all of the complexities you addressed in this lecture, the only practical purpose a DDC fundamentally serves is to solve compatibility issues when connecting digital audio sources and DACs. If we start with a great measuring, SOTA modern DAC (which for the last five years at least would be a delta sigma DAC, period, full stop), they would have a USB input, as would the vast majority of signal sources in the past decade. If we don’t have either of those options, we may need a DDC-but either way, adding one to their signal path would have NO impact on “sound quality” at all. I believe you know this already for sure, but as we’ve chosen to stay in the digital realm, we should recall that digital audio is not sound, and “bit perfect” is a silly marketing term, not an audio science term. Also “timing” to input receivers with modern DACs has been handily resolved by buffers-and especially with asynchronous USB connections (and delta sigma DACs), the DACs clock is the master (as you pointed out). That’s why USB has been adopted as the reference, most practical standard for high end, super high resolution digital audio streams, and IIS has remained a superfluous expense we tolerate due to the marketing manipulations of PS Audio (their reasoning is based on another epic scam involving circumventing Sony’s SACD DRM rights, but that’s a topic for another time and place). That is also why informed, sensible people who care about the money they work hard for don’t bother anymore with the antiquated R2R ladder DACs you discuss in this video. They are technologically inferior, obsolete, yet paradoxically more expensive-and unless they include a killer integrated amplifier, they’re literally stuffing cash in the furnace. Absolutely, the DACs you reference here sound great-but they don’t sound any more or less great than a $300 SMSL option with an ES9038pro or a $400 refurbished Topping d90 with an AK4499. Going back to the digital domain, the only “sound” that emerges from the back end of a DAC is the sound of the original master, varying only by the degree of noise, distortion and dynamic range that comes with. And the newest (meaning, in computational technology terms, the most advanced) inexpensive DACs out there right now all vary way beyond the capacity of the human ear. Which means that buying all those resistors is the equivalent of buying a hand-built computer tower from 10 years ago at exponentially higher prices (in the case of the eight year old DAVE, 20-30 times higher), just because the one sheet uses a lot of super cool sounding, atomic age terms that promise to lift those veils once and for all. Seriously-the idea of spending extra cash for a DDC to fuss with IIS, only to solve the problems with expensive Denafrips or Holo May rip offs, instead of just buying a far superior, far cheaper and better-measuring DS DAC with a USB input is to me absurd. The DAC in 2022 should be the least expensive component in an audiophile setup. See, although they sound really wicked cool and esoteric, we don’t need fancy phase lock loop systems in this modern era because the processes they perform don’t change the outcome, if the goal is listening to music, instead of measuring computational ephemera. Progress, in the form of AKM and ESS, has solved all these issues for us. The “jitter” you’re wringing your hands over is indeed inaudible-even for “expert ears” such as yours, it’s true. Your thesis here sounds erudite enough, but to me it amounts to an orgy of misapplying analog audio terms to ones and zeros. I truly admire your efforts. But I feel an obligation to advocate for the dignity of others’ hard-earned cash. I’m sorry for using this tired cliche, but this vid is simply peddling a bevy of unnecessary snake oil. And please, do take note of the contradiction in your headline for this vid-one could argue that it’s a bit disingenuous to bait clicks by signaling better sound quality to be had, and then disclaiming three minutes in that the discussion is not about what is “audible”. Please go back to sticking to what’s audible. The wallets of all your followers will be so much better served if you do. After all, the money they’ll save from not spending four to five figures on a futzy DAC and a DDC to solve its connector problems can be set aside for their headphones-where the quality of construction and design truly has been demonstrably proven to make a difference. Peace…
@nixboy323 жыл бұрын
I thought the MQA video was good then I watched this one! Bloody brilliant, science based explanation of how electrical interference has nothing to do with snake oil. As a direct result of this vid bought a usb galvanic isolator (the intona 7054), 2 decent usb cables (also sorted power supply end out too) and my god my setup has been improved to a new level! I will for sure sort patreon support! Great work
@laieauxdaims Жыл бұрын
Dear Goldensound, In this world where pure gold and sneak oil (EDIT : « snake ») are sometimes so difficult to tell apart, your reviews are really in a league on their own, thanks to your deep understanding, objective measurements, and explanation skills. Very helpful. Kudos ! And thank you so much.
@cloudvsSephirof Жыл бұрын
It's just his accent
@zogzog1063 Жыл бұрын
'sneak oil' is deadly stuff. Also Snake Oil!
@laieauxdaims Жыл бұрын
@@zogzog1063 Edited. Thanks !
@oryandunn3 жыл бұрын
I thought by now any reasonable DAC would have it's own internal elastic buffer and just internally re-clock using it's own precision clocks. Paul Lesso wrote an AES paper about S/PDIF design 15 years ago called "A High Performance S/PDIF Receiver". A small buffer chip should be super cheap these days, and should be able to wipe out any jitter from a PC optical port. I get the impression audiophiles like to make simple problems hard.
@squidcaps43083 жыл бұрын
They want excuses to buy more stuff while still claiming it is "minimal chain".
@sanjacobs62613 жыл бұрын
Buffer = delay = bad, I guess?
@Wassermelonenbaum3 жыл бұрын
@@sanjacobs6261 Delay is bad if you are watching a movie or trying to mix tunes as a DJ, cuz the audio will arrive too late. But if you only listen, it doesnt matter if the audio comes out a second later then it got send.
@gayusschwulius84903 жыл бұрын
@@Wassermelonenbaum and it wouldn't even be a second, a few milliseconds would be more than sufficient.
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
@@gayusschwulius8490 For reclocking you usually use atleast 2 flipflops. This means that it's atleast 2 cycles of a clock worth of delay. The clock in this case has the frequency of the bitclock which is usually 44.1k*16bit*2 = 1411200bit/s. Which corresponds to 0.7microseconds of delay PER flipflop. I'd say delay typically becomes audible in live content at about 15-25ms. You could legit use a thousand flipflops and still not hear the delay.
@jensastrup19403 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad I have found this channel. Looking forward to the Hollow May review.
@-szega3 жыл бұрын
6:40 for what it's worth an OCXO is still voltage-tuned (EFC) with a typical pulling range of something like 1-2e-7. The ovenized part is for short-term stability, not frequency adjustment. Essentially, quartz crystals have a characteristic curve of frequency change vs temperature change over temperature, which is very different for different "cuts" (the literal way the crystal is cut and polished). The standard is the AT cut, which is pretty much all quartz crystals you see everywhere. The AT cut crosses 0 Delta-Hz/Delta-K at around 25 °C. Which is just about perfect for normal ambient room temperatures. But the slope around that point is steep (relatively speaking, so let's say you're at 20 °C, you might be getting 5 ppm/K or so). Now the clever trick about OCXOs is that they use different cuts, often the SC cut. The SC cut has a completely different response to temperature changes; it crosses 0 at around 90 °C or so, and has a very gentle slope around this area. So OCXOs keep their crystal heated to a very _stable_ 85-95 °C, using a control loop. The attenuation of ambient temperature changes by the control loop colludes with the shallow slope of the dHz/dT to give extremely low tempcos. The _expense_ of that is: SC cut crystals are much more expensive (tiny tiny tiny fraction of the market), OCXOs are a lot of hassle to build and even fast-stabilizing types will exhibit a pretty wild swing from turning on to becoming mildly stable (at least 15+ minutes), they have very high power consumption compared to normal oscillators (couple Watts steady-state vs. a few mW for a normal oscillator and maybe 50-100 mW for something fancy. (And some OCXOs tend to fail under repeated power cycling, like you'd do in a residential setting -- they're _absolutely not_ designed for that and _will not_ hold their specs when treated like that). Most (all?) OCXOs have their own reference voltage which is typically ovenized as well. Sort of like bootstrapping, the reference has a tempco (selected for ~0 tempco at the elevated operating temperature, another reason these are expensive), so it would impact the temperature controller, so it's ovenized itself. It's of course stable, the tempcos of precision references are tiny to begin with. Now the reason people went to this trouble is that for, mostly physical experiments, extremely accurate and stable clocks are a useful tool. A good OCXO achieves short-term stability better than 1e-12, that's one part per billion, or for the typical 10 MHz reference, that's less than 0.00001 Hz variation over a few seconds. (Jitter and stability are not the same thing). These are mechanically vibrating devices: Vibration creates low-level spurs. Most physical phenomena influence oscillator output, temperature is just a big one. Gravity is another; angling or rotating a quartz changes the frequency (much more than 1e-12). So for optimal performance you'd want to dampen vibrations of all frequencies. Sounds like something you could sell to audiophiles. Big fat granite rock on a bunch of thick steel rope springs. Obviously, as you allude to at the end, the oscillator can't actually be used as a reference for anything (what's 10 MHz / 44.1 or 48 kHz?), so you're looking at a fractional-N PLL anyway, and at that point the quality of the output clock is liable to be swamped by the PLL's qualities (or lack thereof). To be frank, a normal quartz is probably just dandy for audio, if the rest of the system design holds up. Audiophility seems to be especially liable to buzzword engineering instead of system-level engineering.
@BogdanWeiss3 жыл бұрын
@6:35 an oven controlled VCO is exactly what it says - it is temperature controlled to optimise clock waveform & jitter performance - it is NOT an “temperature controlled” crystal, that is voltage is still used to set the crystal into its designed resonant frequency, but temperature controlled conditions, stabilise & optimise the oscillator performance😀🤓
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
It controls the temperature to increase long term stability. Jitter is short term deviation and thus won't be improved with OCXO's.
@audiorick8412 жыл бұрын
Excellent explanation on how clocks work with USB vs SPDIF. Thanks!
@nissimtrifonov53143 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles: Measurements don't matter, all that matters is what you hear!! Also audiophiles: This device has a noise floor at -144 dB vs that other one that has it at -120 dB and costs 1/10, we know that it is a proven fact no human being can perceive the difference but just look at these GRAPHS!!!
@harrison00xXx3 жыл бұрын
In fact, any unwanted noise at -144db can still affect the sound quality when such frequencies are played, its still a delta to the "perfect" soundwave.
@nissimtrifonov53143 жыл бұрын
@@harrison00xXx of course it will affect the sound. But you will not hear the difference because you are not Superman
@harrison00xXx3 жыл бұрын
Nissim Trifonov ok thats also a legit argument
@94nolo2 жыл бұрын
That's us, yes!
@gastonpossel2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly. There's no way in hell a human can hear a signal that is 120 dB lower than any other simultaneous sound (that is a millionth of a millionth of the energy in the main signal), even in the ideal condition when the main signal is a pure tone that does not overlap in frequency with the jitter-generated harmonics. Maybe a super low noise no-jitter-at-all DAC is useful in lab environments, but as a music consumer...
@jafizzle953 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the actual graphs that prove what you're saying. I'm new to high-end audio, and for the most part I assume that the things that people tell me, like "this is better than this because this one costs 10x as much and it makes me feel good" is mostly subjective, but you've supplied receipts which actually puts weight behind your words.
@squidcaps43083 жыл бұрын
Also: NONE of these people commenting here, nor the uploader has ever heard jitter in their lives. They do not conduct proper blind testing but just conclude things. Measurements do not lie but most people don't understand the decibel scale and the number in it. If it is below -100dB: do not bother, you will never be able to detect that in any real life scenario, yo can only catch it with measurements. In most cases we should not care what happens below -70dB but it is better to be safe and aim for a bit better than Redbook, 96dB dynamic range.
@joshuascholar32203 жыл бұрын
I think these problems should have been solved in the DAC. The whole reason I am considering buying an external DAC is to get rid of electrical noise. Cue the "YOU HAD ONE JOB!" meme.
@dingdong21033 жыл бұрын
Considering that analog LPs are still considered to be the ultimate experience by many high-end enthusiasts, a 60db noise floor is not a problem and a 110db one even less.
@GodfreyMann3 жыл бұрын
@@dingdong2103 you’re misunderstanding the problem. The issue isn’t noise floor: it’s electronic noise and jitter which are a *completely* different thing.
@dingdong21033 жыл бұрын
@@GodfreyMann What is 'electronic noise' if not the thing that rises the noise floor? And jitter is not a practical problem in reality, it's just marketing jargon: hifigo.com/blogs/guide/what-is-digital-jitter-and-how-to-avoid-jitter-dac-101-part-3
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
@@GodfreyMann Vinyl has wow and flutter which are the analog equivalents of time domain modulation. You won't get rid of them by going analog.
@GodfreyMann3 жыл бұрын
@@dingdong2103 you’re correct that ‘electronic noise’ on the analogue side rises the noise floor, but the discussion is about ‘electronic noise’ on the digital side which gives rise to jitter. It’s not a marketing jargon - the clocks are voltage sensitive components and ‘electronic noise’ can cause fluctuations in voltages in the circuit. Although tiny this can affect the quality of the square wave signal and therefore how the bits are interpreted....it can change the bits and timing.
@ynstyne3 жыл бұрын
For us noobs, might I suggest you spare a few moments to explain you graphs better and how one is better versus the other? I kind of think I understood so thanks for the great effort and video!
@M_jamessnell3 жыл бұрын
Soooo I'm somewhat new to audio. My understanding of those graphs is the more lines you see randomly sticking out from a pack, the worse it is. At 13:50 you can see a line sticking up on the left graph towards the left of that graph, then just before the big spike, theres a bunch of bumpy lines sticking up from most of the other lines. Neither of those are in the right graph. Those things are the noise/jitter. (I COULD BE WRONG.)
@keco1853 жыл бұрын
I'm not into audio at all. Just came here from my recommendations. But I have done some electrical engineering. The plot has frequency on the x axis and loudness on the y axis. He's sending a 12kHz sounds wave across the line which causes the giant spike at 12k. Since it's supposed to be a pure 12k signal, everywhere else on the plot should technically be at negative infinity (no sound at all). A lot of the reason it isn't at negative infinity is because of random electrical noise or jitter. Jitter causes other frequencies to spike slightly because changing the timing between points in the wave changes the slope of the sound wave and thus the apparent frequency of that wave.
@GhoVinsen3 жыл бұрын
Great video! Very informative and i learned something new
@dasman66213 жыл бұрын
Just a question - "...the Schiit EITR is a very affordable device..." I assume you are aware that this product was discontinued about a year ago and is only available second hand? (where it commands a huge premium over the original MSRP). FWIW, the EITR was based on Schiit's older USB implementation (called Gen5) and the EITR was discontinued when Unison was introduced. Also, I agree that the Pi2AES is outstanding... I have 3 of them.
@andrewgunawan45023 жыл бұрын
Pretty amusing to hear tho
@Y0HJorCh3 жыл бұрын
Eitrs sometimes pop up in Schitt's b-stock page for $99 plus shipping. Schiit discontinued Wyrd as well, so I guess you have a point unless someone wants to use spdif coax connection for older DACs like me.
@Edwinvangent3 жыл бұрын
Dude, this is the third time in a row you make a video about the stuff that is on my mind the bigger part of the day. your now my favorite Tuber. And about MQA I got your back all the way. 2 years ago I also put a lot of time (for me) in the new sensation MQA and concluded, it's kind of scam, and your video, organized all my chaotic leftover memories about that subject, and now it is as clear as a FLAC file. Respect.
@kmah3243 жыл бұрын
>'Not claiming any level of audibility' >Makes a whole video on why ddc's make an audible difference... Pick one.
@wabbasMEpern2 жыл бұрын
I think he's just nerding out over the numbers. Companies like Holo are laughing all the way to the bank with people like him.
@jensastrup19403 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad I have found this channel. Looking forward to the Holo May review.
@jonathanhiener24633 жыл бұрын
Wow, really enjoying this channel and the clear technical explanations. I'm glad to find out that my DAC has PLL for all SPDIF inputs, I was about to go researching a Pi2 AES!
@bigmike57853 жыл бұрын
The Pi2 is an amazing device.
@boobio13 жыл бұрын
The snake oil has infected his brain.
@wabbasMEpern2 жыл бұрын
I think he's just a data and numbers guy. That's fine. The differences he's hearing are placebo and that's okay. Good for him.
@marcob.78012 жыл бұрын
@@wabbasMEpern I agree,...unfortunately. I have been in a rock band and have listened to live performances of all kinds of music from every genre! That's why I listen to "primarily" Redbook CD's (Yup MP3 duhhhhh) through an OPPO BDP105D (which have highly regarded Sabre DAC chips{even by today's standard}) connected by balanced cables to a Violectric V281 HP, which is connected by Periapt balanced cable to CHiFiMan Arya V2 headphones! It's all about the chain folks,....the fewer and shorter the links, the less are the kinks! With no insult to the most highly underrated band extant! Ahem!
@eskamobob86623 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video just flat out on time domain vs frequency domain and what each is used to look at
@Darkmatterme3 жыл бұрын
Awesome channel by the way finally someone who can measure and has an open eye for the subjective part of this hobby.
@r423sdex3 жыл бұрын
Should be good when he does the blind test with ASR. He is going to pick different dacs out. Can’t wait !
@magic83403 жыл бұрын
This is your second video from your channel I have watched. You've earned yourself a new subscriber.
@kevmitchify3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that you've presented actual measurements, but this seems like a solution in search of a problem. These DDCs seem to be all about second guessing the internal design of the DAC you paid good money for. A high quality DAC should already have its own isolated power supply and isolate any electrical noise coming in from the USB. It should also already have a high quality clock which is the only place you need to worry about jitter. If you just use the USB input, there is no jitter from external sources so no need to spend more money to try and minimize it. Just buy a good DAC in the first place.
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
While it's true that you are essentially "secnd guessing the internal design of the DAC" and that the DAC already SHOULD have this implemented, it doesn't mean that it actually has. A good clock oscillator requires a good crystal (which is just expensive to manufacture/buy). Attenuating input jitter can only be done IF you have a proper local oscillator. You are making a compromise between how much the external clock matters and how much the local clock matters. For USB DAC's this is irrelevant because USB is asynchronous. For power supplies I completely agree though. You won't make the power supply much better than the way it's implementend internally.
@BogdanWeiss3 жыл бұрын
@@hidjedewitje with asynchronous audio dacs you also have the option of putting in slave or master mode when using an external master clock - despite all the advantages of async usb, the search for cutting edge performance continues... Unless you're Bruno Putzeys, design a good one 10 yeara ago & its still cutting edge....
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
@@BogdanWeiss Bruno's stuff is indeed very fascinating. His work at Grimm is also quite fascinating! The AD1 (now discontinued) is still the best AD converter when it comes to linearity and jitter performance 20 years later! The question is, do we really need such performance?
@BogdanWeiss3 жыл бұрын
@@hidjedewitje Performance just like intelligence is a double edged sword - once seen or heard, it's difficult to un-hear it - I didn't realiae that the grimm adc has been unchallenged for this long - truly impressive
@hidjedewitje3 жыл бұрын
@@BogdanWeiss While true, there's definitely diminishing returns. The difference between a laptop's on board audio to a standalone DAC with THD+n of -115dB is pretty audible. There are also DAC's with THD+n under -120dB. I doubt anyone can hear those differences, despite the performance being objectively better. There's also people who stare themselves blind on numbers regardless of looking at the weakest link in the chain. They buy DAC's of $1000, but leave the room untreated (resulting in dips of 30dB in the frequency response!!!). There sure is a place for state of the art products (like the Grimm's or the Mola Mola's), but they should also be placed in a state of the art environment to be actually usefull.
@SweAussie3 жыл бұрын
Always learn something new here, thanks for a great video!
@ericharrelson20453 жыл бұрын
Outstanding review. Man, I wish you had a Denafrips DAC using the external clock function with the DDC for this round of review. I just ordered the Terminator-Plus DAC with the Gaia DDC and Kinki Studio EX-P7 with EX-B7's.
@squidcaps43083 жыл бұрын
Why? NONE of these things are audible.
@orgy7orgy72 жыл бұрын
@@squidcaps4308 if you cant here a class A amp then you must be deaf
@michaelkaercher4 күн бұрын
I do not often see videos which are pure and utter nonsense. But this one is. The spdif and the usb interfaces have error detection integrated. They will not deliver an invalid data stream to the DAC. Noise on a data line can cause problems but usually you recognize that by drops in the audio presentation or by connectivity rejection (no sound - full stop) and not by noise on the analogue side. Since the cable length and quality is good these days, you usually have however not problems or drops.
@PartyMusic77511 ай бұрын
One of the best explained videos on the subject. Actually, probably the clear best.
@angelangelov23543 жыл бұрын
It'll be interesting to know if a mid-range DAC with an I2S input, like the Topping DX7 Pro, could benefit from all of this.
@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa30933 жыл бұрын
Well, I'll find out soon. I'm waiting for my Pi2AES Pro Shield to arrive. I'll tell you this much, the Topping DX7 Pro benefits from an op-amp upgrade. I installed a full set of SparkOS units, takes the unit up a few notches.
@r00s.3 жыл бұрын
It helps a LOT on my Topping D70s!
@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa30933 жыл бұрын
And the verdict is... We have a winner! I use my DX7Pro as a DAC-Pre straight into my amp. So my take is the Pi2AES on Rpi4 running Ropieee via I2S elevates the sound quality by a decent margin. Overall the sound is even more coherent, soundstage width and depth is wider and deeper, the sound has a bit more body to it if that makes any sense, bass is more detailed, everything seems a bit more detailed, you hear more into the finer details of the music, transients and such, better decay and layering of it in more complex passages. I'd be saying these things with the Pi2AES regarding the previous upgrade, but this brings out even more. I wasn't expecting that at all because I thought I was hitting limit with what I already had. Not bad for $350 (I bought a FLiRC dongle as well).
@shkermanshahi2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the amazing review. Ethernet factor is huge, and it is ignored in many digital audio reviews. I did a $200 investment in my roon Server in the basement (6 core xeon with a noisy fan) and it changed the sound all over my house not only where I had the best roon endpoint ($4000 DYI).
@jeffhampton69722 жыл бұрын
This is super helpful. Also, I just bought a May because of you, gosh darnit. So thanks.
@teighan78292 жыл бұрын
Love the little fun fact about the creator of USB audio thinking it sounds like doo-doo haha
@jeremyhughes64853 жыл бұрын
It matters if your DAC is not able to remove interface jitter and electrical noise on the incoming signal. Why not simply get a properly designed and built DAC? This is the same as buying power conditioners - you only need conditioning if you have an audio component that can’t deal with regular noisy power. You also should use an asynchronous DAC - which decouples master clock from the crystal clock in the DAC. Basically you only need extra stuff if the components you have are sub-optimal to begin with.
@DueM3 жыл бұрын
you really should watch the video before commenting.
@jeremyhughes64853 жыл бұрын
@@DueM I did watch. I was summarizing the implications of the video in terms of “so what should one do in practice”. There is a very old lesson here that I learned 20+ years ago. Summary: Buy well built and well designed components and connect them properly and you won’t have a bunch of issues like jitter, ground loops, hum etc. The sad thing is that well built and well designed components are extremely rare and most folks don’t get rid of poor performing boat anchors because they are attached to their toys and, as a consequence, they end up with loads of “band-aids”.
@DueM3 жыл бұрын
@@jeremyhughes6485 it's not the dac that's the problem it's the source, that's the point of this video. There's plenty of dacs with good internal re clockers, funnily enough even they will benefit from an external ddc in the input chain. Whether or not it's actually audible is another story all together so I leave the donglemania for the pedants.
@jeremyhughes64853 жыл бұрын
@@DueM Sorry. I simply have to disagree. There is always some degree of jitter on every digital input (it is an interface issue) - so the better DACs are asynchronous (they ignore the input clock jitter) and in that sense you could stick anything in between the digital source and a well designed asynchronous DAC and it would not change anything as long as the signal remained bit perfect. An asynchronous DAC can be fed a very high jitter signal and remain completely unaffected. (Benchmark demonstrated this a long time ago with their DAC1)
@DueM3 жыл бұрын
@@jeremyhughes6485 jitter reduction is built into most dac chips, async is ok but wasapi is more stable these days and you're not using proprietary drivers which are notoriously buggy. benchmark dacs use sabre chips which have inbuilt jitter reduction anyway and are pretty much identical to a hundred other dacs using the same topology. we can agree to disagree but as long as pcs are the source theres always going to be lots of noise, hence these devices.
@TheVoicefrombelow3 жыл бұрын
It sounds like some dacs would benefit a lot from a Pi2AES, where as others (the more expensive one's presumably) would benefit less if at all. I'd love to hear your recommendations for a good bang for buck combo with the Pi2AES if you end up doing a dedicated video on that device.
@symshi64103 жыл бұрын
At first I also thought usb wouldn't matter, but I noticed an audible noise coming from the apple dongle on my laptop, specially when the fan was running louder and a cheap usb isolator from alliexpress was all it took to fix it in my case.
@haosheng122 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't mind seeing a video talking about power input with regards to audio equipment: the effect clean power has on equipment, usefulness of power conditioners and UPS's, and what to actually do if mains power isn't reliable with frequent brown-outs and general inconsistencies.
@xentiment6581 Жыл бұрын
We need a hidden camera inside Schiit HQ when they are naming their products. They know.
@jefflee81026 ай бұрын
I recently added a Gustard U18 to convert USB to COAX between PC and DAC. The improvement is huge! I get an immersive 3D soundstage with relaxed and sweet sound. After that I tried direct USB connection once and couldn't bare with the "digital", dry, lean sound at all. Your explaination makes perfect sense, noise and jitter matter most between source and DAC. BTW even USB is not really bit-perfect, as USB audio uses isochronous protocol. Unlike bulk protocl, it doesn't have error correction.
@MizoxNG3 жыл бұрын
a phase-locked loop is literally necessary to keep multiple signals in sync, I don't think I understand how something is supposed to properly interpret a digital signal it's receiving without one, the clocks would keep going in and out of sync.
@xprcloud Жыл бұрын
-120db noise from jitter is NOT EXTEREMELY audible at all!!, in fact your amp background hiss more audible more snake oil audiophoolery, would like you see your "golden ears" detect jitter in a blind test where you really have no clue which is which
@MrMftech3 жыл бұрын
Designing PLL is an art...and this is the -secret- to proper digital audio reproduction.
@st0rm4g3dd0n3 жыл бұрын
You should do a vid on MQA
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to, but unfortunately MQA has quite deliberately made it VERY difficult to obtain any equivalent files to test. And no MQA full-unfold device is allowed to have digital output. The only actual comparison i've seen where there was an MQA and non-MQA file that were the same was done by stereophile, and it showed all sorts of problems.
@sephondranzer3 жыл бұрын
This comment aged well 👍🏼
@duckyou96683 жыл бұрын
So what about Pi2AES SPDIF to hermes and converted to I2s, would it be even better?
@TheCangle3 жыл бұрын
I switched from using my gaming pc as a roon endpoint to using an allo digione signature (similar to the pi2aes from my understanding). I wasn't hearing anything obvious via the usb audio on my pc but when I switched to the RPI allo streamer the signal sounded quieter and cleaner but it definitely wasn't a huge difference. Good video though I've been really enjoying all the content on this channel
@lwwells3 жыл бұрын
Same here. its not a huge difference but its enough for me to appreciate the digione.
@xyanide19863 жыл бұрын
Fun fact, a 10MHz reference clock is also used for things like phase syncing lab equipment.
@mike480853 жыл бұрын
If at all possible, you should beg, borrow or steal an EtherREGEN along with a quality external master clock, such as an AfterDark Giesemann or a Mutec. I've added both to my Pi2AES along with quality LPSs. My listening experience has been transformed for the better. I've never heard such 3-dimensionality, fluidity, realistic dynamics, sweet resonant decays, etc.
@NickArcade11 ай бұрын
This is a great video! I just purchased the iFi iPurifier SPDIF 2, and I really enjoy it. It makes the optical audio on my PC so much better in terms of quality, and music sounds amazing. I can even play my songs on Tidal at 192 KHz. I haven't noticed much on my Xbox One, but I still use it to prevent jitter.
@hemantishwaran57412 жыл бұрын
I have a pi2AES which I run into a RME ADI-2 Pro and then to my Genelec speakers. The sound is glorious. I first used SPIDF but then switched to AES which to me sounded better. I do not know why it sounds better, but it does. More bass control and overall cleaner sound. I have not experimented with i2S yet. My conclusion is that the pi2AES can be used in a chain to produce the highest quality audio. As a side note, the RME ADI-2 Pro is a match made in heaven for Genelec speakers as it can be used for AES or XLR output, thus making it possible to send both digital and analog to the speakers. For example I stream Qobuz and play vinyl from my TT through it. This is perfect for me because I love both digital and analog and can’t live without both.
@DJURBANBG9 ай бұрын
Ok, nice but how do you feed the pi2AES, since it doesn`t have USB in ?
@hemantishwaran57419 ай бұрын
@@DJURBANBG Ethernet cable. It’s plugged directly into my LAN. Then it takes over as my Roon music server and I output that via AES to my DAC.
@DJURBANBG9 ай бұрын
@@hemantishwaran5741 thanks !
@digitalampco76403 жыл бұрын
You should check out the Cherry 130dB+ DAC DAC 3, which will be introduced this summer! The coax/optical SPDIF input is internally reclocked for jitter immunity. Several levels of power supply reconditioning. True balanced, DC coupled outputs, too (:
@Maxime-ho9iv3 жыл бұрын
Since you are basically the only one to do this kind of things on KZfaq (and thanks a lot to do so!), I think you should take more time to explain what you present. This is some really really interesting and in-depth information, it deserves longer videos, or more videos. Something I don't understand: why should we need a device that clean the signal from the source to send it to the DAC if you can have that in the DAC itself? Shouldn't it be a requirement for any DAC to basically reclock what's coming from the USB and isolate from the voltage coming from the USB?
@jaykabel3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic informative video
@sec213 жыл бұрын
Errr, my guy you don't need studies to find out how audible something at -100 dB is.
@kmah3243 жыл бұрын
@Fernando Martinez It obviously depends on the type of signal being played. However, ignoring most psychoacoustic research, any metric exceeding 120dB (-120 dBFs depending on the measurement being made) is provably inaudible and that there isn't much room for argument.
@V1ralB1ack2 жыл бұрын
this was extremely enlightening and informative
@ootz0rz3 жыл бұрын
do any of the ddc's add any audio delay, ex if you want to watch videos?
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
Some DDCs will add delay yes. This isn't something I have tested for this video, but some DDCs will introduce a notable delay (particularly network streamers), and some will have none. Worth checking reviews/feedback on the DDC you're looking at. Some dacs also have this inherently. The denafrips dacs for example use very large buffers and this gives them a notable delay even without an external DDC
@DBravo29er2 жыл бұрын
I use a GAIA DDC into my Chord Qutest. With 48k/24bit audio from my AppleTV, I've got no lip sync issues at all as opposed to running straight optical out from my TV. Latency will increase with sample rate, btw.
@secretsimon18972 жыл бұрын
Another thought. I loved this video because "USB noise" was one of the topics I was wondering about and I was also among the ones thinking bits are bits in a digital signal and audible noise cannot be generated on a USB connection. And you almost convinced me when mentioning the audible noise from a PC. We all know that, that noise is with us since the 90's. You can hear the mouse movement, GPU working, etc. But then I realised it's a completely different scenario, that is with the PC's builtin soundcard and a direct (jack) connection to the speakers or headphones. As soon as you have an external USB sound device, noise is gone. So I'm afraid I'm still sceptic about USB noise :) (jitter is another thing I understand that)
@campersruincod61343 жыл бұрын
Your channel is a fucking goldmine holy shit!
@mariuszgorka47133 жыл бұрын
Great video! I hope you know you just opened a can worms with the ASR number crunching crowd.
@LordVictorHalgaard3 жыл бұрын
Considering he already did the number crunching, I should hope they wouldn't have much to screech about - though I know that's probably wishful thinking. But so long as it just means more data, and not just ridiculing, then all is well and good.
@asplmn3 жыл бұрын
Really interested to hear your thoughts on the May Holo. I ended up going with an Yggy GS for only like a 1/3 or so the price, along with a Pi2AES. I still wonder how it'd compare to the Holo. I guess one perk of the Yggy is that it's upgradable, and Schiit is already working on a new analog board for it. Looking forward to your review!
@sc0or2 жыл бұрын
So many thanks for pi2aes. This seems to be a real diamond.
@AverageNiceGuy2 ай бұрын
Very nicely done. Thank you very much 😎👍
@banginghats22 жыл бұрын
Would be interesting to see how a Nobsound Douk Audio U2 USB Converter compares.
@bernardosilva73062 жыл бұрын
Hi @GoldenSound! Great reviews, as always. But unfortunately looks like the Pi2AES project is no longer available and they have a closed and more expensive version. So, I was wondering, with the release of the new Topping M50 which is kind of a weak streamer, can it be used as a cheap USB to IIS converter? If so, could you measure that to see how clean the signal is? Thanks!!!
@EmmanuelIstaceАй бұрын
Just some "personal" perspective from my experience as a software developer for real time embedded systems and deep interest in electronics. (not professional in electronic tho) I'll only talk about those three topic you start with, over usb, some applies to other protocol, but I don't know them in detail and I'm not going to read pages of specifications for a youtube comment. The TLDR is just to say, normally, you shouldn't have to care about those three issue in a "just enough" designed modern usb device, even more one who cares about those well known issues and tells customer they're some kind of high end devices, dac, or anything else. Data integrity Being digital doesn't mean you can't have data corruption, for instance if you communicate over serial without any specific protocol, or a protocol that doesn't integrate some form of data integrity mechanism, you can have data corruption and no fix for it. That being said, the usb protocol specs specify a mechanism for that. A CRC is sent to ensure the integrity of the received data and if the check failed, the data are re-transmited. (to make it shortà That means, for any device compliant with the usb specifications, it's not possible, on the transport, to corrupt data and not notice it and fix the situation, it's by design. So no need for extra middle man. So, being "bit perfect" and "not altering data", I don't understand the take. A usb hub does it, nothing special. But I don't understand what the point is, so I just mention, to anyone worried about this, usb, by itself, protect against data corruption on the line. If you worry about that, use usb, and you'll be fine, by design. Electrical noise You mention using optical link as solution to decouple two electronic circuit. That's way more on point than it seems and is in fact quite... "original', that any "high end" dac doesn't do it. The solution is called optocouplers, it's used everywhere, even in low end electronic, it's cheap, and it does just that perfectly. The fact you have to introduce middle man to solve that issue for expensive units is a shame. Also, optocouplers main interest, outside of the noise, is mostly security concerns, and it should be used in scenario with interconnection to any other unknown circuit. For instance, you certainly don't want to blow your expensive device by linking it to a faulty one that might send huge spikes to yours. If you design something like a dac, being proactive about those situations shouldn't even be questioned, even more for expensive equipment where you should do anything possible to protect it from the outside world at the benefit of the customer and your brand image. At the same time, solving noise propagation issue through data or ground lines. Imho, any dac, even low end, should do it. And to be honest, it's a solution found in a lot of studio equipment, and you don't have to go high end for it. So blame the dac manufacturer for not doing their job. Jitter It was a real issue for instance with spdif and the reason was... mostly a "bad" design we don't rely on anymore. Also there's different type of jitter with different sources and different solutions. The way you represent what jitter introduce as a problem doesn't match the general design of todays dac, dac aren't clocked by the input protocol clock anymore (and if they are, it's on their own and they decided to go the wrong way, maybe buy something else... who easily solve the problem) But, usb has a well known workaround. The main solution to solve almost all jitter issues is to use asynchronous mode. Jitter will be small to the point it's humanly not noticeable anymore and, if you really want to solve that picosecond problem, just introducing a buffer or related, audiophile dacs, imho, can do it, I wouldn't mind it a all as a client, but might be wrong. The fact this problem is still present really makes me wonder: are they using 20 years old design that just "get better over time" but don't do re-design that would solve the issues ? Once again, it's the dac manufacturer fault, it's a design issue, it's a known problem, with known or even integrated solutions, if problem persist, maybe go back to your R&D and fix it before requesting any substantial amount of money from your clients. Paying a middle man device to fix those three issues, at least over usb, until you are like using an old dac you really love, shouldn't even be a thing. Shouldn't even be mentioned on modern hardware, not even as a selling point. It's something people sometimes say about dac to say every dac is the same, I don't have opinion I want to share on that topic, but for those three issue, if you have a modern dac that features them, I would consider them "by design broken dac", any mention of those issue on something I plan to buy would make me totally never ever go toward that manufacturer again. To me, those issue, on new hardware, shows a total lack of dedications and I really hope I get this video wrong and it's about fixing old gear issues. At least for usb, don't know for the rest, but wouldn't be surprised there's solutions too and modern hardware shouldn't rely on middle man.
@courtneyswaby31782 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video and for the tip my curiosity gauge is right up there.
@joshuabrain97513 жыл бұрын
Got my Pi2AES yesterday and am so impressed with the SQ compared to a regular Pi3 on USB. AES sounded much better but going to i2s was a night and day change. Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention Golden!
@navinadv2 жыл бұрын
I got a pi2 and am using it with an Allo USBridge Signature. Still can’t it to work. Any pointers? I am using the same SMPS power supply as recommended by Mike Kelly and the USBridge is powered via the PI2AES. Thanks.
@Shoaibexpert2 жыл бұрын
What PSU are you using it with? Linear PSU? Thanks
@joshuabrain97512 жыл бұрын
@@Shoaibexpert just the standard meanwell
@mclement0521642 жыл бұрын
I'm considering buying a sub $1000 DDC and have 4 candidates, but am open to other suggestions. Candidates are 1) Gustard U18 2) Singxer SU-6 3) Denafrips Iris 4) Topping U90 In stock form, which puts out the cleanest IIS signal?
@johnlesoudeur36532 жыл бұрын
What about including the Matrix Audio SPDIF 2?
@DBravo29er2 жыл бұрын
IRIS is the best sounding in that list. I just upgraded mine to a Gaia And that's better still.
@srkbear1 Жыл бұрын
All of them sound exactly the same, but I went with a Topping d90se. I use its USB input, because it is the most convenient option and handles any sampling rate. There’s no benefit to IIS, despite the marketing mistruths perpetuated by PS Audio’s Paul McGowan-who promotes that tech because it was required under his clandestine agreement with Sony to circumvent their DRM rights for outputting an unadulterated digital signal from SACD players to his own proprietary DACs. Don’t fall for this ruse, it’s an unjustified expense that has no impact on “sound quality”. Digital audio is not sound, and no matter what transport you use, the same signal is passed to the DAC and the resultant outcome is indistinguishable to the ear.
@Woofy-tm8si2 жыл бұрын
The pi2AES with I2s output is no longer available. The manufacturer now only offers I2s output with their $600 Mercury streamer. However, production has halted due to a supplier issue with the case manufacturer. According to the website, the PCB board for the Mercury may have to be fully reconfigured to fit another case. Translated, it might be quite some time before the Mercury Streamer is back in production. At this point, it looks like I'll be forced to look at other options for the foreseeable future.
@Dankzzz8 ай бұрын
Love to see the Comments. Nice video, keep up the good work.
@Landoverse Жыл бұрын
Great video. But the giant question it leaves unanswered is whether the little no-ISB Pi device that beats the Hermes is uniquely good at destroying jitter, or whether *any* transport without USB (such as my MiniDSP SHD Studio) would yield similar benefits, simply from avoiding USB.
@kurt12003200211 ай бұрын
2 years later. I am now using a pi2aes 2.0, with a 850€ linear PSU that powers both the board and the Chord Qtest, with files stored on the SD card, optical out, with real glass cable, and music sounds more liquid, it has more shape somehow. I did a test: same setup, same files, external usb ssd storage vs internal storage on sd card, and turns out, it does sound a little bit better when there is no usb in the chain. Same dac, same input, same output on pi2aes, the only usb was the usb storage and impacted the music. I don’t know why, but from now on there will be no usb in my system
@gimeurfridchiken46153 жыл бұрын
Has anyone found how to stream all of PC audio to one of these? I heard Zeos in his review mention it was possible but I havent seen how people do it. TIA
@AmazingMrX3 жыл бұрын
I've been able to try internal Bluetooth with my Pi4, the quality and delay are quite terrible however. I also tried streaming with "Stream What You Hear" over the network, and while this uncompressed the audio up to a cap of CD Quality, it's still very badly delayed. Neither option was acceptable for videos of any kind. There may be other Linux-focused answers that highly technical users may be able to sort out, like using the Pi as a USB device or setting up the pi as a different kind of Linux audio server, but for a normal install of Moode I found none of the evident options worked very well. I'm halfway interested in coding my own solution to this problem, because the absurd delay doesn't make much sense to me. I get less delay sending packets to another continent than I get streaming the sound mixer's PCM output to a local Pi4 streamer with "Stream What You Hear", and that really shouldn't be the case. I'm just concerned I might be duplicating existent or better work since there hasn't been a ton of fruitful discussion on this and the Linux community tends to have answers to everything prefabbed and ready.
@RaoulGordon3 жыл бұрын
Just a quick question... Would one be able to use a DDC with an audio interface? As far as I'm aware audio interfaces send and receive sound instead of just receiving it. Recordings are clean as anything but I get an awful lot of noise (especially CPU noise) at audible volume which ruins a nice album at the best of times. Curious if a DDC could fix that. Either way, excellent video : )
@maniacaudiophile2 жыл бұрын
I gave up explaining how jitter can be CRITICAL to your music a while back. Took me a while and a lot of experiments to learn a lot of. Spending time trying to pass that knowledge to people who are not receptive is a horrible way to waste your time. I would recommend giving Lavry Engineering DA10 and similiar DAC a try with their "crystal lock" feature enabled... See how wrong engineering can go when they confused clock drift with jitter. Their tight PLL sounds great tho. Another thing i find suspect is Analog Device's ASRC that claims to eliminate jitter by running signal through SRC, but i suspect it is just blending the good and bad part of the signal into a inseparable mixture.
@Grassy_Gnoll2 жыл бұрын
Why would you have to explain something that's, according to this video, "extremely audible?" I've never heard it, and have been an avid listener for over 40 years. What DAC does one buy to hear this phenomenon? What does it sound like?
@maniacaudiophile2 жыл бұрын
@@Grassy_Gnoll it is extremely auditable if you know what to look for. If you are facing a crowd of "if it is bit perfect, then there's no difference" horde, then you will see what i mean. To me, higher jitter often results in blurred imaging, worse soundstage. To try it on the cheap... Just get a player and DAC with optical and coax. Then compare them. Do remember to use cheap plastic optical cable and cheap coax.
@maniacaudiophile2 жыл бұрын
@@Grassy_Gnoll all else being equal, bigger soundstage, lower jitter.
@r00s.3 жыл бұрын
I have ordered a Pi2AES, but realized that it doesn't decode DSD, PCM only. Any Pi Hats you recommend that decode native DSD [or DoP]? Cheers!
@tenveri3 жыл бұрын
is it not acceptable for you to transcode to hi-res PCM? Like 352/384kHz
@alexandruzorilon3 жыл бұрын
Very informative review, I like the measurement addition! You keep mentioning the Pi2AES price as the full price of the streamer but adding a Raspberry Pi and a good power supply is a must, so the total price will be around 600 $. Great job anyway!
@ianhaylock74093 жыл бұрын
Most expensive Pi 4 is $75. Pi2AES is $149. That's $224. So you're saying you need a $376 power supply to run this. Must be one hell of a PSU!
@TyRonKitzeRow2 жыл бұрын
Prices have gone up over double since this video
@ronfreeman46872 жыл бұрын
Two questions about the Pi2aes. 1- How does one change inputs on the Pi2aes? I think they all run continuously and have to be changed by hand. 2- How is the sound from an external/remote hard-drive into the Pi2aes via USB,,, then output to a DAC of choice? Thanks ahead for your help.
@titntin51783 жыл бұрын
Very informative, thank you. I have always intuitively done my best to stay away from pc in my audio chain as ive always supected id have electrical noise and jitter issues. Having recently started mixing and recording on pc though, i'm in need of paying attention! I recently switched my hifi to a Naim Atom , so hopefully my dac is being supplied with an optimal signal!
@MazeFrame3 жыл бұрын
The Jitter explanation is partially incorrect. Samples representing a bandwidth limited signal, will only ever have 1 possible waveform. No matter how bad the jitter, the sinewave after the output filter of a DAC will NEVER have slopes like shown at 5:43. The mathematics behind it do not work that way. Ovenized Oscillators are also voltage controlled, just that with a controlled temperature, the oscillator is more stable.
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
Nyquist assumes that the samples are completely even in time. If there is jitter/timing inconsistencies then yes, the waveform will absolutely show that. Otherwise the measurements shown in this video would all be identical
@MazeFrame3 жыл бұрын
@@GoldenSound You will not see that in an FFT, you would need to look at the waveforms.
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
@@MazeFrame I'd recommend looking at the mechanics of the Dunn J-Test. John Atkinson from stereophile has a good article on it. And there is also an AES paper (written by Dunn)
@jeremyhughes64853 жыл бұрын
Agreed. The jitter example is over simplified and wrong. Jitter is not about wobbly waves. Listeners should be much more concerned with correlated jitter or deterministic jitter. Random isn’t audible by definition.
@romangolovanov95603 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the awesome video! I wish that at some point you'll be able to make a video about AoIP with devices that support Dante or Ravenna. I'm really interested to see if they can bring any noticeable improvement to the sound. I've been eyeing the Merging Anubis for quite some time now.
@bloodcarver9132 жыл бұрын
As an IT tech since 1986...USB is pure shait!
@darrellross8609 Жыл бұрын
T, The SMSL DO200 is a dream to own. Best, D.
@WhiskiedGinger3 жыл бұрын
And this is why Unison is so powerful. Or at the very least, so impactful.
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
Unison USB is just the name for schiit's proprietary USB receiver. The higher end dacs have galvanic isolation (which is fantastic). But unison on the lower cost stuff like the modius and modi does not. Its still a good USB interface, but XMOS is also very good, and the determining factor will be other hardware components such as the clocks themselves and PSU. The USB receiver chip/FPGA is just one small part in the chain. The modi 3+ with unison for example does 'just ok' in terms of jitter. It is very good that schiit has taken the time to do a proprietary implementation though. Its never a good thing when one company holds a monopoly over a specific component or area of a product for an entire industry.
@ahmaddanielbinmatshah16713 жыл бұрын
Hi..appreciate if you can make Pi2AES assemble video and software installation needed to be used via smartphone
@joskabouw3 жыл бұрын
Yes can you do a session on the Pi2AES
@yc-tai Жыл бұрын
Audio snake oil. Baffles the brain.
@hernancoronel3 жыл бұрын
Hi, love your videos and the kind of information you present! Thank you! Regarding jitter I have to say that in any network stack that kind of error should eventually get corrected before passing on to the next layer up in the chain. I have been working in the IT industry for over 25 years and although jitter is a well known problem in networks it can usually be corrected and it is. Also taking into account that any audio speed nowadays is nothing comparing to the gigabit capacities we have in current networks I am not sure if it should really affect audio chains because the inherent speed is really slow compared to anything else we do with computers. Anyway just wanted to add to the debate and hopefully somebody more knowledgeable can correct us all in the near future! Keep up the excellent content!
@HydraulicDesign2 жыл бұрын
It's laughable, if these things weren't snake oil how could anything about a computer work? How are the colors on my monitor not swimming all the time? How are my SSD's able to reliably save anything? Good grief.
@f0rl3 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to your SOtM review. I am really interested in it. I would like to know how it compares to Pi2aes.
@puciohenzap8913 жыл бұрын
SoTM is very good and pretty much a connect-and-forget device.
@GodfreyMann3 жыл бұрын
Am I correct in thinking the Pi2AES is only worth having if one has an I2S input on ones DAC? Or can you also perceive a difference over TOSLink? I’m wondering whether or not it might worth using over TOSLink with my ADI-2 Pro FS (instead of a direct USB 2.0 connection from my iMac)?
@secretsimon18972 жыл бұрын
Too bad, the HAT is not $150 but $250, so with Pi and case and a decent power supply we are looking at $400.
@tomb3752 жыл бұрын
WHAT! A SHITT EATER! Sorry, I had to do it! You knew it was coming. Thank you for all your AMAZING REVIEWS!!!
@barneyrubble93098 ай бұрын
Anyone coming to this in 2023/24, the Pi2aes was unavailable for some time but has now been replaced with the Pi2AES 2.0.
@baldmetalnerd3 жыл бұрын
Interesting vid, I recently tested 3 different DACS against each other I compared the AudioEngine D1, the DAC built into my Yamaha A-S301, and the DAC in a $110 CD player from 2001 and after volume matching I couldn't tell a difference. I've yet to try a DDC but if my ears can't tell a difference between the DACs I doubt a DDC would make much of a difference for me but I would be willing to try one out.
@asplmn3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I'll be honest... It's super super subtle to me. Only difference I've ever been able to distinguish is the difference between multibit or R2R and delta sigma. But, even between completely different topologies, it's very subtle to me. It becomes more noticeable with high end headphones compared to my 2 channel setup.
@harrison00xXx3 жыл бұрын
External DACs are more or less a waste of money. Not even talking about DDCs, thats the snake oil people talk about, even external DACs are more of snake oil than real advantages. In the days where only proper DACs were in extremely Hi End gear which was probably not even aviable for the regular customers, an external, better DAC than the one in your anno 1990 100$ JVC CD Player would make a difference. But i realized how useless "better" DACs are as i switched from a cheap 90$ DVD Player (i think 96kHz 24Bit) to a proper CD Player for 600$ (192kHz 24Bit), fitting to the 700$ Stereo Amp. There was absolutely NO DIFFERENCE, except for the removed DVD drive noise whereas the Cambridge Azur 650C was totally quiet. My AVR has even a 384kHz 32Bit DAC... and it somehow sounds the same as the cheap DVD or expensive CD player. The sound difference between my 700$ AVR and my 700$ Cambridge Audio Amp is also very negliable. Where the AVR (175W/channel advertised!) begin to struggle a bit with bass at higher volumes, the Cambridge 650A ("only" 75W @8 Ohm) doesnt sound that stressed on my IQ 90s. But at any regular volume AVR aswell as Stereo Amp (both feeded completely different, Stereo Amp analoge over CD player, AVR with a bit-identical FLAC file over USB Stick) they are more or less identical, you only hear a bit of difference when it comes to the "cambridge sound", but its not far off from the "linear" sounding AVR and is pretty easy EQed even with the 2 controls on the Stereo Amp for Treble/Bass.
@asplmn3 жыл бұрын
@@harrison00xXx I'd generally agree with you, but with one caveat. There does appear a benefit with desktop/gaming PC setups. This is largely just due to computers being very noisy (electrically) inside and there can be a benefit of moving your DAC and amp outside of the chassis, and on their own power supplies.
@harrison00xXx3 жыл бұрын
asplmn this isnt a thing with digital connections anyway
@Synflood-dot-txt16 күн бұрын
Amazing video man I learned so much thank you !
@minus3dbintheteens603 жыл бұрын
They actually called their product a schit eater?
@wright96d2 жыл бұрын
Have you ever done a blind test where someone blindfolded you and randomly swapped cables
@theonlyegg5 ай бұрын
Of course not, then he'd run out of content, just like all the rest.
@DJURBANBG9 ай бұрын
Would you recomment using Denafrips HERMES with RME adi 2 pro FS, will it make a difference ? THANKS
@sebgato14522 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this review.
@russb3n3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video and what are your thoughts on a Chord Dave by itself vs adding a M-Scaler > to a Chord Dave? Did you measure them when you add them both? Curious
@GoldenSound3 жыл бұрын
Dave alone I didn't feel was worth the money. Dave with MScaler was fantastic, though some lower cost dacs such as a Holo May or M1SE will be better to many. I also preferred HQPlayer to MScaler. I didn't measure it unfortunately as I didn't have my ADC at the time.
@russb3n3 жыл бұрын
@@GoldenSound Yeah I have the Dave now by itself but just bought the M-Scaler incoming in 2-3 weeks. But when I demoed at my local hifi shop I think they had the M-Scaler connected incorrectly to the Dave because it sounded really bad hollow and thin sounding. I also owned but recently sold the Holo Spring LVL 2 KTE with Singxer SU-1 KTE via I2S great DAC/combo. Looking forward to the May review
@theonlyegg5 ай бұрын
@@russb3noh man this comment aged like milk. Bet ya the MScaler was hooked up just fine. It's an expensive box of nothing.
@carlosalvarez74452 жыл бұрын
Would it be possible to expand this discussion and include the Allo DigiOne Signature in the comparison?
@Colin-yh7oy3 жыл бұрын
Just come across your interesting vid. Is the Innuos PhoenixUSB a type of DDC? It only has USB in/out connections, and seems to be extracted from their top-tier Statement server/streamer. I have one on loan, connected between my ZENith Mk.3 and Benchmark DAC3 B, and it makes a clearly audible improvement. But I'm now wondering if I should investigate a cheaper DDC, if it might work just as well...?
@DBravo29er2 жыл бұрын
It is. A Gaia would be at least as good, AND about half the price.
@GS-nk5lb6 ай бұрын
Great video, illuminating. Did you have the chance to compare sonically the Pi2 v2 and the Holo Red, using any of the digital output ? Thanks