thanks for the clarification

The original intent behind the forgeries, not necessarily known to those doing the forging, was the end result that now people are hearing/seeing headlines claiming that the dead sea scrolls are forgeries, resulting in people being mislead into writing *all* of them off as forgeries. It's quite ingenious.

@@TOEC where did you get your evidence for this?

@@xceptioncreations8595 He's a nutcase, that thinks everything bad can be directly blamed on satan in a grand conspiracy.

Real ancient documents survive more than 2000 years?!!!! are you kidding? All these alleged scrolls are modern fakery.

I second that

He’s the Superman of apologetics. Except when he wears glasses. Then he is Clark Kent.

?

@@MikeWinger John's gospel is a forgery

Amen. Exactly.

😂😂😂

Yeah, this interview was very informative, for sure!

He does look young! Still smarter than me either way

🤣🤣

😂😂😂😂😂😂 this made me laugh out loud. So true, so smart and so young, wonderful to see

A lot of us feel abandoned by god because he put us through so much trauma in our life

​@@varriodelaware14ranatraino59 - Feeling abandoned by God is something { I believe } every person feels at one point or another in their life ,, I know I once did , until , I began to give it real serious thought . Afterall , the Word states that " God so loved the world , that He gave His only begotten Son " , so that belief in him gives me everlasting life ,, why would he do that just to abandon me , he could have abandoned me without giving his Son .. Jesus said " anyone that comes to me , I will in no way turn away " and " I will never leave or forsake you " .. I began to think that , my trauma could easily have been caused by a bad choice / choices , someone elses bad choice , doing a thing I knew was wrong before I did it , someone elses choice to do me harm out of hate , envy , vengence , or maybe to further their own interests , , the motives are endless .. I could of avoided so much pain , trauma , and problems just by living the way God has instructed me to , not by the ways I chose { my way was easier , more fun , more profitable , etc ,, } .. There are so many figures in the Bible that suffered trauma , loss , and pain , yet , it happened to them after they abandoned what the Word , the law , or in some cases , what God himself told them to do or not to do ,, so then I saw that they instigated their own problems ,, they were told what would take place if they were disobedient , and still , out of stubborness , lust , desire or endless other reasons they freely chose to defy God .. I am not saying God hasn't or can't cause trauma , to serve a higher reason ,,, He did it to Job to show Satan how good of a servant to God Job was ,, He let Joseph go through a tough 30yrs , so he would end up a Ruler of Egypt { under Pharoah } ,, which put him in a position to save Egypt and all Israel from starvation ... But then look at Moses , he was told to speak to the Rock { which represents Christ } and instead , he struck it with his staff , for doing that he was denied entrance to the Promised Land { after 40yrs of travel to it } ,, he didn't obey God and paid the price .. The examples in the Bible are too many to list .. All I am trying to say is , 99% of my trouble was by my own doing or someone elses , yet , I was putting the blame on God .. I don't know if anything I have said makes sense to you ,, but , I wanted to at least tell you how I view it , because if you are suffering trauma of any kind , I hoped to help you with a different way of dealing with it .. I don't want you to feel trauma & pain , and I Pray you wouldn't believe God has abandoned you , because His Word clearly teaches us He hasn't and won't ever do that .. I hope all is well with you or soon will be .. May God Bless You Greatly !!!

There are lots of forgeries related to famous materials.

It was only the Museum of the Bible fragments that were forgeries. Plenty of others are authentic.

Correct. Green family went looking for manuscripts they could buy and display. Someone, somewhere said, "Hey, i got some Dead Sea scroll fragments. What'll you give me for 'em? snicker snicker" And they were forgeries. BTW, a forgery is an illegitimate copy OF SOMETHING THAT REALLY EXISTS. Like a forged signature on a document. it is a COPY of a REAL SIGNATURE, just not signed by the owner of the signature. So the ones the Museum of the Bible bought are fakes. The real ones are real. But the museum was claiming to have real DSS fragments.

The real Mona Lisa is authentic but I've seen plenty of 'forgeries' displayed in museums

Only one museum (the Museum of the Bible) had some forgeries and they have only recently been on display. All of those on display at the famous Museum of the Book in Israel are authentic.

Chris Holman; precisely! But the way this secular world works, they are trying to say that all the Dead Sea Scrolls are a hoax. That is their way to further discredit the Scriptures. A few forgeries does not have any impact on the authenticity of the Bible. All their blather in the world will never change my mind on the Word of God..

THANK YOU FOR THE CLIFFSNOTES VERSION

Yep. A forgery implies an authentic source. Works the same in art.

We have no originals of any manuscripts. They are all copies of copies of copies of copies. With errors galore!

Dustin Ellerbe that’s actually so disturbing and it makes me feel really sad to think about.

That's fair, and something that should be looked into.

thank you, i was looking for a comment like this. when you study art history they teach clearly that you aren’t really seeing originals in a museum. and most originals need to be restored by artists that carefully fix any damage made throughout the years. i don’t know why they don’t mention this . it’s clear headlines are just coming against the discovery, because bible.

Replica is a copy of the original, forgery is a falsified copy or unique piece presented as an original

They replaced the forgeries with replicas of authentic documents.

Impactful in what way?

I'm sorry for that. I'd take it with a grain of salt, with it being non-scripture of course

Great point.

@@benwade7334 Good point but those 16 fragments are forgeries. They were sold to the Bible Museum as genuine fragments from the caves of Qumran and exhibited as such. The outside experts who examined them concluded that the fragments were intended to deceive. Forgeries.

I think they can be read as non-canonical. But in my own opinion people who don’t spend a lot of time reading ancient religious literature tend to unintentionally put more weight on that stuff when they do read it. It’s like they somehow project their method of reading scripture onto their reading of other books that come from the same time. That can be a problem. But being self-aware can fix it.

Letters of all the Christian fathers were circulated, too. No one ever proposed the Shepherd of Hermas was scripture, but it was widely read. In more modern times, we have had things like The Pilgrim's Progress that was incredibly widely read as religious work. We have lots of works of history by abbots and bishops and so on, too. They were preserved in church libraries. The dead sea scrolls are basically a crossection of the Qumran library.

Landon Emmerson Non-canonical books being included in the Dead Sea scrolls should have been a clue The real Bible has been available the entire time, but people want anything other than the King James

Maybe because, while heretical, they are still part of the Bible's history.

It's a lie and they fell for it. The reason the Dead Sea scrolls are rejected is the follow Gods word not the corrupted alexandrian texts, none of which agree with each other and contain gnostic gospels. We are betrayed.

Isaiah in the Dead Sea scrolls affirms the KJV reading. Meanwhile sinaiticus contains the shepherd of hermas and has never been tested. The Vatican claims it's the oldest and best and the scholars take that as gospel.

All 16 fragments in the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. were found to be forged. You can find the detailed report on them on the Museum of the Bible's website. The museum's website states: “After an exhaustive review of all the imaging and scientific analysis results, it is evident that none of the textual fragments in Museum of the Bible’s Dead Sea Scroll collection are authentic,” concluded Colette Loll, founder and director of Art Fraud Insights, in a detailed report about the findings. “Moreover, each exhibits characteristics that suggest they are deliberate forgeries created in the twentieth century with the intent to mimic authentic Dead Sea Scroll fragments.” Obviously, this has no impact on the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls originally found in Qumran. But it makes the post-2002 fragments suspect. They were supposedly released from a family vault in Switzerland by a descendant of one of those who originally bought fragments from the Bedouin shepherds.

@@joshportie dont confuse the commentors with your king james only bais. The king james version is based off of byzantine manuscripts. No where near the oldest manuscripts of the old and new testament manuscripts we've found recently. We have the word of God. And thank God we dont have the original copies of the scriptures because men would manipulate them and control them before they started to circulate. All of the translations say the same thing. There are like 3 additions or lines of scripture added in later manuscripts. Other than that we have the critical text with has yielded us more accurate translations of the scriptures.

@Cyrus Dabar it's just ignorance, the information it out there and holding to the king james only leaves you open to criticism from godless skeptics. All you have to do is look into the history of the bible and its composition. I'm saying this in love. Anyone reading this comment please do real research outside of KZfaq. The bible is Gods word and he had his reasons for allowing multiple translations. I know God makes no mistakes. Trust him and do the research on the history of the bible and your faith will be strengthened!

That was one of the discoveries that helped show they were forgeries. It was ancient leather but it raised a red flag.

Amen on that! You probably already know this, but The God Culture has done good research regarding John the Baptist and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

@@WilliamDeanIII yup! Seen that too! honestly makes so much sense

The scrolls in the museum in Israel are authentic. It's just these fragments in this US museum that are forgeries. Is that what you meant?

@@littleboots9800 yes, thanks .

The scrolls were found in a place called Qumran.

You’ll want to look up the Essenes

Di Pieterse thanks, really appreciated

Totality of Scripture thank you v much

Why did they not mention that?

Or they corrected the verses that were mistranslated but on which the New Testament stories were based.

toomanychushki most people, especially Protestants don’t know. Don’t take my word for it, research.

Golden Alt doubtful. The Greek Septuagint makes clear references that resemble a life that could only be Yeshua’s. What’s the conspiracy? That Greek speaking Jews 300 years before Christ couldn’t read and write Hebrew?

@@kyz8390 The translation doesn't need to be wrong to be misleading. The New Testament authors didn't read Hebrew and therefore made assumptions from the Greek translation that are not supported by the Hebrew. No conspiracy is required.

Be catholic bro

Yes there were LXX fragments found in cave 4 of Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and a couple from what we know as the Apocrypha.

Totality of Scripture but we didn’t have Septuagint texts surviving from Jewish inhabitants in the Greek/Roman world or Babylon where the Talmud was written?

Davey Mcdreamy are you trying to say the Essenes were not Jewish?? They were the ones who hid the DSS in the caves. Maybe I’m not following exactly

Totality of Scripture no but that was only 1 group and texts that were largely forgotten. I suppose my question could be reworded as what was being used by the Jewish community between 70ad and the masoretic manuscripts. And do we have any of that. I’m not suggesting that what we have isn’t trustworthy quite the opposite we have an embarrassment of riches in the manuscript traditions. But this seems like a void that should have something

Davey Mcdreamy Sinaiticus has an OT Greek that would fall between the Masoretic and 70ad but it’s not complete

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Over 90% of the NT quotations of the OT are from the Septuagint.

@@carolberubee exactly

LXX: …when He [God] separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. MT: …when He [God] divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel. Here we see that either A. The writers of the LXX rewrote the bible to make the bible less israelite centric or B.the writers of the MT rewrote it to make it more israelite centric LXX: [Ishmael] shall be a wild man… MT: [Ishmael] shall be a wild man… ST: [Ishmael] shall be a fruitful man… People who hated ishmael rewrote the bible to make him sound less sympathetic or simply mistranscrip the bible, since "fruitful" and "wild" are written similarly in hebrew (bér vs bár)

@@Joseph221b, thinking about what Wes said... maybe he just meant that until the DSS discovery, we only had the MT -- so far as *Hebrew* translations.

@@carolberubee I was thinking that too. Perhaps

....and the Easter bunny!

@@dipieterse6749 Hahaha! ;D

the Bible proves itself a thousand times over by connecting versus and prophecy and everything else besides I came to Faith by calling on the name of Jesus before I knew the Bible at all so I think it's more important to pay attention to faith if you have faith not just informational.... Besides too much time trying to convince the unbeliever infidel the Bible is clear teach those that are able to teach others

Atheist spend more time talking about God than most Christians... I was in a bookstore once and they had on display perhaps ten books on atheism on a wall little wall and every page I turned they were talking about God haha they have nothing else to talk about.

100%

Israel

Israel

Or so you believe.

@Thomas B I do not believe in anything. I either know or I dont know. Lol, fact is always hard to swallow. Those who do not live by fact are usually deceived. Believers will always be deceived.

My understanding is that the DSS agree with the Septuagint only about 5% of the time.

No, forgery only means that it's not from the source it claims to be. Copy would be the word to describe something that had a real version. For example, the forged letters of Peter in the New Testament don't mean there's a real letter.

I’ve heard they did this with the displays at the Museum of the Bible after first finding the problems. Unfortunately, it wasn’t how they were displayed originally.