Was hoping for an animated cymbal falling on your head!

Had this argument a few years ago, it ended with an email to the sax player who was on the Curtis session who said "Apparently the string arranger had misunderstood the tune when he heard it and came in with the arrangement on beat 1. The band had always played it on beat 3, as in the live gigs. Despite the drummer's best efforts to play the arrangement, as soon as the band came in everyone just went back to feeling it on beat three. So...everyone's right" (although team 3 a little more right)

Every time I have ever played this song it’s lifted my spirits. Even if I was in a great mood it just made me feel like a million bucks

the reggae version is SO CRAZY. it completely re-contextualized the song for me. my mom listened to this song every saturday to wake us up. I grew up thinking it was beat one.

You know its a genius groove when every single possible interpretation of the beat sounds equally good, and multiple very experienced musicians couldn’t agree on which one is most accurate

I never considered that it could be heard on 1. Always heard it on 3. If you listen to the backbeat/snare, phrasing and groove of this song, 3 just works. But I really enjoyed this video. Similar intros with odd-sounding times: Chaka Kahn’s ain’t nobody

I've never really sat down and thought about it, but I've always heard alternating bars of 6/4 and 2/4, with the A and F# as the 2/4 bars.

This video is a banger. Move On Up is a musical pillar of my own mental health maintenance.

I hear Move On Up by Curtis Mayfield like this... The drums start on 1-2- The horns come in on 3 The first cymbal crash is a red herring because all the fills leading into the horn break are on the 1 The lyrics fall like this (pushed) "Child" on 1 "Cry" on 1 Etc If you listen to it like this it totally works. BTW loved this vid. Too funny how much thought can go into a song. The fact that it's an awesome song is why it demands so much consideration. If it was a crappy song no one would even care where the 1 is

I love delaying the crash for a beat or two. It makes even a simple fill stand out. Having said that, it's not changing the downbeat, just spicing the groove

Bro thats so wild! Just Blaze/Kanye literally changed a generation's perception of the entire song. I heard the Kanye version first when I was younger, so the horn part has always felt naturally on the 1.

Curtis changed the game in Soul and Funk. 1970s eponymous album was a forerunner in socio-conscious soul!

I've always heard "Touch the Sky" as if it started on the one, obviously. But for Move on Up, it's always sounded like it started on the three.

Try counting it in half tempo (actually, that's what the reggae version is also doing). This gives you the "hypermeter", and to me this clearly suggests it starting on 3. Halving the tempo always helps with figuring out faster songs, because it makes the beat feel more "grounded", less busy. Much easier to hear the main beats that way and also keep track of the downbeats. The harmonic rhythm also clearly suggests it starting on beat 3. It's basically a two-chord song: Em and Bm. You spend two bars on each chord, and the chord changes land on the downbeat. But on the beat 3 of the previous measure, there is this passing chord that leads to the "main chord". F#m leads to Em, A leads to Bm. Em and Bm are clearly the "important" chords here, and F#m and A are basically passing chords or "approach chords" (that approach the main chords a step above/below). But yes, the point raised in the end is probably important here. The Kanye West version clearly starts on the downbeat. And if that's the version one is most familiar with, then that will affect the way they hear it.

Such a joy to watch and learn so much production from your videos!

Analysis, production, presentation - just love your videos my man!

I couldn’t love this more!!!!! This is my introduction to your channel (sorry I got here so late) can’t wait to see more. Cheers

This is a great video. Gets you thinking. I did agree with you when asked if the crash came in on the 3 and I agreed. Of course as we listen, we're all messed up. Awesome vid!! Keep on

Coming into work and having a video from this channel is the best feeling.

Got super stoked to see this pop up in my feed. Lot of late night shifts I remember this groove coming on

man, this got me all fu**ed up. This isn't the first time i've been confused on where beat 1 is. The covers I can understand and get down with on the "3 being the 1", but the Curtis Mayfield version I just can't undo how i've always heard it. GREAT TOPIC. THANK YOU, your videos are very very interesting! Keep up the great work brother!

I love your vids dude this is the content I need

Man, I love your videos. You make youtube a better place. Love, in the beat 1 camp because changes.

This show is the best! You always have me arguing with the screen…(even tho you know more than me)…love the research and editing!

Always a good day to see a new upload from your channel. I hope to see Mayfield’s Right on for the darkness at some point in one of the vids.

I once arranged this tune for a brass band I was in at the time. When I pulled up finale i didn’t get a single note on the page for about an hour because I was trying to decide where to put the 1. I could only settle it by listening through to the start of the actual verse at which point I joined team beat 3. Incredible tune and amazing how the ambiguity doesn’t strike you until you try to actually dissect the music

Man, you did a great analysis of that song! 💪

Unrelated, but have you ever noticed how EWF's "September" speeds up through the song? The tempo picks up a BPM when the drums kick in [from 123 beats per minute to 124 bpm]. Interesting thing is that, by the end of the song the tempo has shifted up several more notches to around 129 bpm. Don't believe me? Start tapping your foot at around 2:30, then jump back to the beginning. Amazing, right? I think this contributes in a big way to what a powerful mood-lifting device the song is.

I'm always expecting someone to walk into your end-of-video freeze like it was a Police Squad! episode.

Another cool video man keep it up!!!

man I didn't expect this one to go so deep, love your breakdown here.

One of the greatest songs ever!

Great watch. Love all your vids.

Great video as always. Justin said in serato interview a few years back, they had stretch the horn sample in the beat because is wasn't on the down beat.

Love this video 😺🤘🏽🤘🏽🤘🏽

Best music Channel on yt rn

Appreciate this video because it reminds me of two tracks which I can hear differently depending on where I start listening: Percee P - Put It On The Line and Boogie Down Productions - Breath Control II

I always counted this on the "3-4-1-2". I always love breakdowns like this, it really changes how songs sound and makes it feel like a new listening experience even after years of knowing it 😊

Your group conversation Sounds so wholesome =D

I really love your channel

please never stop 🙏🙏

Loved this.

One of my favorite songs - i never heard a single cover of it tho. So now ive got a project for the day.

Omg I love your videos. i'm from New Zealand, and I was wondering if you were playing with NAS on Tuesday the 9th of May

Never thought bout this before interesting! ...an this is 1 best songs ever

My favorite version of 'Move on Up' is Delvon Lamarr Organ Trio's live version, it's an instrumental yet sooo good

Thanks for that devon russel record. That shit is jammin. Subbed

And all this time, I thought I was listening to music. I wasn't! 😂 I've learned so much more.. Appreciate ya'!✊🏾

Yoooo great video man. My friends and I have the same argument about how to count "Addition" by Kanye West on the Late Registration album.

Bruh This Is Good Teaching !!

By far, best music analyses channel on the internet.

i had never thought there was any doubt about it, I always heard it as beat 3. this video made me confused (in a good way?) always good to rethink and re-evaluate things you think you know

So on the original tune, I've always heard the horns coming in on 3 in the beginning (I'm a guitarist, for whatever bias that's worth). BUT, when the drum break comes in the middle, it kind of sounds like the drummer is in the "Beat 1" camp before the rest of the band comes back in. And I definitely hear it on 1 in some of the other versions you've played. Stuff like this is why I love the youtube algorithm sometimes, because this is a very interesting conversation *specifically* for guys like me. Haha. Great video!

Just came with my favorite song off my favorite album!

Love the set up to the "not tight" punchline 😂

Loved this. Keep up the good work!

I love this song!

This was awesome.

i have no idea what any of this means but i loved it!

The song "Upside Down" by Diana Ross is a similar enigma in terms of where the downbeat lands. It seems like the correct place for beat 1 is on the word "down" (as in downbeat haha), but it may seem more natural for the ear to hear beat 1 on the word "up(side)". For that matter, "Cold Rock A Party" by MC Lyte, which sampled Upside Down, sounds just as vague, even though it seems to favor beat 1 on "down". As for "Move on Up", my initial gut told me that beat 1 lands on the kick/crash/high horns, but when I think about it more, it seems that it's more correct to treat it as beat 3 when taking the structure of the lyrical melody into context.

Yo, Great video, and i'm glad it's not just me who has problems like this. I'm a dancer and when I want to come up with a routine I need to know the music deep inside. This reminds me of another unbelievable but confusing song.... U Don't Have to Call by Usher. It has the same problem, at least for me, where the main piano chord comes in I think on 3, but others hear it as 1. But the beat at the beginning doesn't fit. I've been needing an answer to this question for 20 years.... Maybe you can do a part 2 involving that song?

I always heard it as the drummer's count off as 1-2, then the horns come in and start the song. So for me, it 1-2 then 1-2-3-4 for the majority of the song; then at the breakdown around 4:50 or so, the drummer counts off 1-2 again, for the remaining instrumental of the song. Seems like Curtis kept it on the up, as to push the lyrics across; this is still a highly motivation song 53 years later, and I love it. It gets me through my dark days.

U know u music nerd/lover when u argue about timing instead of. Listening to the song like normal 😊😊 love the videos

Idk what you're talking about or how music really works but this video was very interesting!😅❤

That text at the end got me 💀😂

I'd never heard Kanye but was solidly in the "1" camp until you explained it further... darn it!!! Fascinating video.

Cool video. One or the 3 it's dope.

Super happy you made this one. I have heard it as 1 forever and I even thought it was because of the Kanye song influencing me…. You didn’t really do it in the video, but you mentioned trying to count all the way through the song. If the horns start on 1 at the beginning, you end up having to insert bars of 2 (or 6) to hit the chorus properly…. If the horns at the top are on three… it’s just smooth 4/4 all the way through. So it’s 3, but I still hear 1 😂

No matter how many versions or times I hear this song, I ALWAYS hear it starting on the 3. Even the Kanye/Just Blaze Touch the Sky

I remember learning this years ago and it did my head in. Still does. My natural instinct would be the hits are a "3,4" pickup, but the drums phrase basically the entire song as starting on 3. And save for that beginning, the entire song taken as a whole is pretty heavily pushing a horn start on 3. I know all that and I still have to count the dang thing.

Finally putting my music theory classes to use!

I love this song, so uplifting and energizing. First time I ever heard it was on "The Wire." It sent me down the rabbit hole of '70s soul and funk -- I'm so thankful to this day.

I have only ever heard original version, but I always heard it start on one. I had no idea horns started counting on 3 that’s psychotic but I guess it makes sense after watching this!

Beat One camp here... As a bassist myself I always felt it starts on one. When I transcribed it a few years back, I felt the same ambiguity. I took the drum breakdown section as an indicator. If you skip into that section, it's 100% clear where the drummer is feeling the downbeat. When the bass re-enters the scene, it definitely falls on the one... But I to think that the rhythm section and the horns have different starting points.Thanks for this great video!

I always thought that it started on the one. Hmmmmm maybe I should revisit this joint

Before I watched this video I always thought the horns started on 1, and that’s how every band I’ve ever played in has counted it. But by the end I can’t help but hear it on 3. What the fuck dude, I feel violated...subscribed!

When all else fails wax poetic. Great video.

This video makes me so happy. I always heard Mayfield on the 1, but that drum fill and crash hit on (what I thought was) the 3 really confused me.

Team 3 here! It takes a lot of effort for me to hear this throughout the song on beat 1. And: regarding the harmony rhythm, the chord of the dotted quarter note builds up tension where as the chord of the eighth note + half note brings release. To me, the tension on the downbeat sounds just wrong, but it fits perfect when placed on the 3 and the release then comes on the anticipated 1.

Can you do a video on what you use to edit, how you learned it and how you create the graphics?

one of my favorite records. I first heard the Kanye version, just like most of us did. Years later, I started to learn to play funk guitar. The original version just hit me one day. The chords are simple but the rhythm is what makes the song so groovy.

Firepower by David Sylvian and Robert Fripp has a similar thing going on. Years after I started listening to it, I found that I was counting it wrong and my perception of it changed dramatically in an instant

Not that complicated. He did what felt right. Big dork energy. Big fan. Love the videos. Lol.

great video, Its got me puzzeled ! I would love to speak to the original drummer about the crash cym (;

Can you do a video on D’angelos “The Root.” Listen for the count-off to the main guitar riff. I hear the G as the beginning of the chord progression but his count off makes it seem like the Emin starts the phrase… also a great video to talk about Charlie Hunter’s wizardry and D’Angelo doesn’t get enough credit for his amazing lyrics

I'm almost 58 years old, so I've always heard the horns come in on 3. I always felt something was unusual about the "Touch The Sky" sample but couldn't put my finger on it until watching this video!

Horns on three for me, cheers Brandon!

I knew this already!

I started as a trumpeteer then moved to drums and piano. I hear the ambiguity for sure. I see all your points but the Trumpets come in on 3 and the rhythm comes on 1, reminds me how much of a maestro Curtis is, showing us we just gotta move on up.... past the downbeat.

You sir are a Nerd and I love it!!!!

One of my favorite songs. Even played it in a band fifty years ago. But I'm confused as hell now!😆

The texting back and forth! 😂

Fantastic.

That was really impressive - Now I need you to do Ludacris/Timbaland's Roll Out lmao

I've never really thought about it until you brought it up in this video, and I grew up on "Move on Up" on Saturday morning cleanings accept one time after I learned how to play the sax, and I was guessing time signatures on songs. This one broke me back then. But when you played the reggae version, I got to thinking... What if it was not a 4/4 with a push on 3, but what if it was a 2/4 with a 2 measure lead in, and the horns popping on that second measure? It's rare, but I'm saying there's a chance...

Sometimes the downbeat is the friends we made along the way

Begging for this analysis on "Tell Me Something Good".

i listened to this vinyl from my collection at work on my portable, yea thats right lol, and was really blown away at how talented curt is. im 43 so he was hot when i wasnt alive. and i only knew about his main hits. his random songs were deeeeep

Here from the William D. video. You got me! Lol

Always thought of it as three