Religion is part of humanity. The books warn about following "heroes" unreservedly as they can lead to disaster (even without meaning to). And the mechanism described is fundamentalism, with the most usual tool being religious indoctrination. The religions in the story are direct descendants from IRL faiths, it is even explained how it came to be from them. The point of the book is that they are all man-made. Tools of control for power, opium for the people. I think you're letting your bias overwhelm your critical thinking.

but the first books point is exactly this. WHen u blindly worship, u lose all sense of agency

@@dosomestuff1949 Then why does the main character turn into a monster? And what about the elite? They don't believe. What movie were you watching

@@culturalliberator9425 i mean, they all pretty much believe by the end except for chani lol

@@dosomestuff1949 So? It could just as well be about human nature to follow powerful people. This doesn't actually happen every often AT ALL in main stream religions. We see this far more often with politics. Which becomes clear when you take into account the sword fighting is a clear link to humanities tribal ages.

If only it were that easy 😂

@olipeters5802 Not even the full repression of the CCP and the USSR has destroyed the faithful.

@@MP-db9sw lol you want it to happen?

@@intello8953 religion in N America has been hijacked by ignorant, prejudiced, and greedy people. Some of them only use it as an opportunity to gain celebrity status and become million/billionaires while others use it as a weapon and pretext for taking over the legal system to impose their personal opinions on the rest of us. I very much want those people to... go away.

​@@intello8953religion in America has been hijacked by people who use it to become millionaires and/or as a pretext for imposing their own personal opinions on the rest of us. They wage war against scientific fact and against civil liberties. I want those types of religious people to.. go away.

It shows us the dangers of radicalized organised religion

@@teawithaubrey Anyone who talks about "organized religion" doesn't know what they're talking about. A religion is an organization that's built around the belief of a God, saying "organized religion" is redundant. Why don't you lecture us about the "dangers" of "organized organizations" while you're at it?

@@alaskamark4562 religion encompasses broader spiritual beliefs and practices of ppl, while organized religion refers to the structured form of religion managed by organized bodies or institutions.

@@alaskamark4562 The Romans organised christianity into an "organised" state sanctioned religion, it was NOT organic, especially when they started burning heretics LOL

@@teawithaubrey "religion encompasses broader spiritual beliefs and practices of ppl" No, that's spiritualism. Having spiritual beliefs and practices does not necessarily make someone religious, in order to be religious they must be part of a group that worships a God, or in other words, a religion. A person can be spiritualistic and/or believe in a God without being religious. "organized religion refers to the structured form of religion managed by organized bodies or institutions" No, if a religion has no structure, organized body, or institutions then it doesn't exist. Organization is an inherent part of religion.

Sounds like a good argument for dismissing religious peoples efforts to make laws and government policies conform with their personal, religious interpretations.

@@MP-db9swno its not. you don't have to be religious to make stupid laws. you just need to be stupid. take for example the numerous loopholes many states in the US has where thieves can simply have their bills mailed to a person's house and badaboom badabing, its theirs now. all because of idiots thinking the homeless need to be given homes. that's because idiocy isn't religious. idiocy is universal.

Agreed !! Well said

@@MP-db9sw why limit to only religious groups? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely regardless if one is religious or not. In the history of mankind no group or organization has fostered a truly peaceful government or ruling class. If it was peaceful, it was at the expense of the countless nations they massacred/conquered.

@@MP-db9sw That doesn't contradict. It's partially why people agreed to a separation of church and state, despite the fact that the vast, vast majority of society was religious.

Charismatic "atheist" leaders like in North Korea merely set themselves up as a godhead with a cult of personality as the new religion. Stalin was much the same. Same shit, different name. They were only atheist in that they denied the old gods and religions by setting up a new god and religion--of the Great Leader.

Just wondering, what's distracting about the background?

@@teawithaubrey using a room as background not a good idea, even a wall with a poster or a bookshelf may look better

@@ademdemirci88 I think you just have ADHD lol

absolutely fucking wrong. religions where if u question ur killed are fucking dangerous. thats the point of this story.

on the surface, the message seems that way, but billions upon billions of innocents die in the holy war. just like the results of islamic terrorism in real life.

.

Well, there being magical elements doesn't necessarily mean there are any gods or god. Even if there are, that doesn't mean they take any interest in human affairs. Even if they do, that doesn't mean they are benevolent or that they should be considered moral authorities. Even if they are, that doesn't mean human religions actually understand them or what they want. Even if they could, that doesn't mean they are immune from corruption and a thirst for power and wealth. This series doesn't destroy religion, but it is an excellent thought experiment on how easily humans attribute divine purpose to things that are entirely corporeal, and how easily human institutions utilize this to manipulate the masses for their own advantage. The Fremen embark on a bloody Holy War across the galaxy in the name of their religion, all the while never knowing it was a fabrication.

@@ethangonzalez8904 “the Fremen embark on a bloody Holy war across the galaxy in the name of religion, all the while never knowing it was a fabrication” when I realised that while watching and reading Dune it made lol hard 😂. I haven’t finished reading Dune but does Paul know these prophecies were fabricated by the Bene Gesserit?

@@intello8953 Yes Paul is aware the prophecy is a fabrication, also his powers are not magic powers. Its stated in the book Paul's prescience is his subconscious minds ability to predict the future. Its not magic even if it feels like it is. There are no gods in Dune just people claiming to be. The result is always catastrophe when people follow those who claim to speak with the will of god.

@@anguscampbell3020 Yhh but how does he know his grandfather is Baron Harkonnen? That’s literally impossible for him to know that so in my opinion there too many evidences of supernatural or fantasy’s elements in Dune that can’t be explained as “ohh it’s the mind” or “ohh it’s just high science” 🤷🏾‍♂️

@@intello8953 he does in the movies, I haven't read the books

cause christianity can not survive in the presence of science and awareness

now prove to me there is no god my A-theist dumb friend

@@thegoldenboah3343becuase I by would there be? Non of the made up gods of the major religions are real since the things which “prove” their existence are literally the same as fairytale books which people have been brought up to believe in from birth from millennia of fear mongering to control populations and keep monarchs on top. Thinking there is a god because “this couldn’t exist by accident” is just adding an unnecessary extra step since how was the god created?

Can you explain on your point of AI driving humans to become less human?

@@teawithaubrey"Lack of AI" means human got addicted to their own Hubris, & addiction to the spice transforms them into the spacing guild thingies and for Leto to become the Worm Emperor??? Its curious that the Mother Superior thinks that the Gom Jabbar test is testing for humanity, but in essence, half of humanity have already become hybridised "aliens, lacking in "empathy" Blade Runner style.

@@teawithaubrey Its the "lack of AI" thats driving human to become less human, through their Hubris of superiority, and drug addiction, that they subject themselves to be hybridized into an alien race of the spacing guild, space karens of the bene gesserit, and degenerates of the Hakkonens, culiminating in the transformation of Leto II into the worm god??

That's poorly understood, you're right in your conclusion but not in your reason. It's not that the lack of AI drove to become less human, it was the drive to become more than human that made them less than.

@@ianmaluk1 OMFG, youtube is censoring my replies to this thread & others !!

He's called that. And North Korea calls itself The People's Democratic Republic...does that make it a democracy or a republic in reality?

Disagree, Dune teaches you to not trust leaders Frank Herbert himself said that so yes it can destroy religion because religion rules through these leaders like Paul and I quote "fanatical legions worshipping at the shrine of my father's skull". Religion is an integral part of the narrative as it shows you the dangers of putting all your faith in a higher power real or otherwise.

wrong. the last thing it tries to do is promote fanatacism

Was Jesus an all powerful, prescient, dragon emperor for 3000 years before he died?

@@Albtraum_TDDC according to catholic canon he was literally God

​@@Kaspar502But he was a kind of pacifistic God that doesn't make politics. He was against rebelion against Roman Empire. The only time he ever gets violent is when people were selling cattle and other stuff at step of a temple (coz people need a place to contemplate). He said it would be better for pedophiles to hang themselves. He criticises current structures and suggests making order in your family life first. He didn't form any govt structures or gave advices on how a perfect govt would look like. He was only a healer who had charity. That's all. But Christians had to equalize Peter with Christ although Jesus called Peter Satan.

@@karolinakuc4783 Eh...Jesus told people to be docile and obey Caesar, and that God would take care of things. For being so pacifistic, he was the one who introduced the concept of eternal torment simply for not believing in him, something that never appeared in the Old Testament...very odd that, especially if he was supposed to be around while his heavenly Father was smiting all sorts of people and directing his Chosen People to smite others in a very non-pacifistic way.

Kratos says no longer

Frank Herbert was raised catholic but there's no evidence he was religious, I think it would be very difficult for a religious person to write the things he did about religion. The core message of Dune is nothing of what you're saying and I doubt you've read the books. Paul's son Leto makes himself into a god-king, he becomes the worst leader imaginable so that people will never follow a tyrant like him again. "Religion, too, is a weapon. What manner of weapon is religion when it becomes the government?" - Frank Herbert

I’ll have to reread chaperhouse but I didn’t get that message at all. The message I got and understood is that humanity has to look beyond single leaders and guide ITSELF into a future free from the threat of extinction. I missed the god part if it was in there but it’s been about 20 years since I read the whole series. I still have the books so I plan on doing a re-read soon.

@@andresuazo6129 How old were you when you read it. I was in my 30's. And he is not wrong about how everything that transpired in the Dune saga was by design and not random chance.

@@doomslayer1984 I was in my early 20’s. I don’t recall that but maybe it was there and just forgot.

Chapterhouse wasn't written by Herbert. And Herbert rejected Catholicism, which I think it's quite clear in his writing. As a Catholic, I'm of two minds when it comes to religion in Dune, firstly it's an incredibly silly take because you're humanising God in a very shallow and even ignorant way, which it par for the course in his humanist narrative style; secondly, Herbert actually describes very enthusiastically and attractively, however accidentally, the natural impulse people have towards religion despite trying to shift human activities such as contemplation to the realm of psychedelics and aristocratic drug use. I'm extremely fond of Dune but for all the wrong reasons.

Paul's son, Leto II becomes the hybrid worm monster, not Paul.

And if one has to become a God for any god to exist then the premise still holds. No God's existed in Dune until Leto became one.

@@MP-db9swbut we are talking about religion NOT God heh God is NOT religion

​​@@chasx7062until the people who think they are the "good" Christians get the loon-toons, con artists, and political activists under control, it's all just a cult of hypocrites, bigots, and anti-constitutional theocrats, afaic.

@@chasx7062 we were talking about the Dune universe, but ok. Christianity in America has been hijacked. It is little more than a financial opportunity for con artists, a soap box for loon-toons, a save space for simpletons, and a political weapon for bigots and authoritarians. Until the "good" Christians take the reigns away from all the objectively bad, stupid, and deceitful "Christians", they're all bad afaic.

Don't mistake Conservatives as "falling for it" when our Savior did not come in the name of war, but in the name of forgiveness. While it correctly points out that blindly following a warmongering messiah of false religions is bad, thats what separates Christianity from the rest. Dune does nothing to dismantle true Christianity.

@@bugsbunny9334 It shows how easily people who are in a desperate situation and are in dire need of hope, they can fall victim to believing in prophecies. The prophecy of Jesus Christ is one among many of such. Its nothing special when compared to all other stories of "The One". In the case of Christianity, the symbol of Christ as the Savior was also used as an excuse to further political gains, power play and mass genocide just like in Dune. People like to point at Islam as being 'violent' but forget about the crusades and later the colonisation of Africa through means of the church. "He died for your sins so you better be grateful and convert, otherwise you will burn in hell for all eternity." Pretty damn evil religion dude.

​@@bugsbunny9334Dune dismantles all religions including Christianity. If Christ came as a warrior, Christians would follow him just the same. It was who Jesus was(son of God) not his message that inspired worship.

@@polyseed12 *attempts to dismantle The first coming of Christ, He did not come as a warrior..He could've, but didnt. It was also both Him and His message, which is the Truth by which we are called to live by. Dune dismantles blind following of violent, forceful, Jihad-type religion. Its pretty clear which of these religions it is most akin to.

@@bugsbunny9334 All Abrahamic religions are war like. The crusades, The inquisition, 9-11. Peace may be the message, but WAR and conquest was how it was spread. Religion has always been the tool of those in power to control people and solidify their grip on power.

The so-called dark ages weren’t as dark as we’re told. There were bright spots to.

Check out the Middle East, they got just what you're looking for (albeit, perhaps not in the flavor of God you were hoping for)

Much of the world seems to disagree that your beloved white western society is all its cracked up to be. hence why so many who move to the west are now attempting to change it.

GIVE ME 100000 OF DARK AGES NOW!!

You can experience that right now in the middle east...

I guess you think you're as prescient as Paul is XD

@@rikk319 Wait and see infidel. You will LOVE it regardless.

@@rikk319 You will believe, Infidel!

@@rikk319 infidel!

Wtf? Herbert spelled it out in an interview: Dune's theme is "Do not trust charismatic HUMAN leaders." It doesn't mention gods at all, merely the humans tinkering away at their all-too fallible human-made religions.

are you slow😭

@@druwu7 man can see into the future and past, can make people do exactly what he wants with his voice, can compute things at superhuman speeds. Hes the very definition of a God. He certainly isn’t your average teenage human is he

@@The-Anti-Zionist that’s the same thought process that was used to take advantage of the fremen

@@druwu7 well, I think the 61 billion who opposed his ascension deserved it, why stand against a God? The throne was his, I would have certainly joined the Fremen myself like - not coz I’m a sheep, coz I’m not stupid , fuck the old emperor and his scheming bene geserit sister and the baron

@@The-Anti-Zionist By that logic, then every superhero is a god, too. Is Paul immortal? Omnipotent? Can he create life at the snap of his fingers?

But enough of Godzilla!