I always thought that Paul did not become the God Emperor because he was not born with the memories of his ancestors. He could not sacrifice his individual humanity, but his son who never really had that chance could choose it. The abomination was needed for the salvation of humanity.

There was a fundamental difference between Paul and young Leto that ultimately determined how they would react to the requirement of becoming a worm-human hybrid. This was that Paul, unlike his son, hadn't been born to a mother super saturated with spice, and thus, pre awakened. Thanks to his presience (?) Paul was able to do some pretty unpleasant things, but he was still solidly human. Leto, on the other hand, had to fight from birth to retain his humanity... and his sense of self had already been weakened by the time he finally chose to take up the Golden Path. What becomes clear in Children of Dune is that Leto and his sister Ghanima knew about the Golden Path long before the events in the book play out, they had discussed it, and both knew that one of them was going to have to adopt it. Ghanima was equally capable of taking up the challenge, but she didn't know if she had the mental and emotional strength to see it through to its end. Leto, on the other hand, having been supersaturated with spice not once, but twice, was already one personality amongst many when he adopted the sandtrout skin. With the weight of millions, if not billions, of human lives to support him through the thousands of years of slow metamorphosis, he believed he had enough humanity (or the memories of it) to see him to the conclusion of the Golden Path. And unlike his father, with his own individuality already subsumed in the collective Other Memory, he wasn't afraid of losing something already buried in the myriad.

Leto was ruthless because he loved humanity. His only goal was to prevent our species extinction. He would do anything to achieve his goal. He would sacrifice anything to prevent a extinction event from happening. Paul saw the same visions as Leto. Paul could not make the sacrifices necessary save humanity in the long run. Paul was his father's son and could not live with the things that he had to do. Leto was a mix of his mother and father. Chani was a person who could make hard choices and sacrifice herself. Leto was able to do what he did because he had the strength of both of his parents.

I've met a shocking amount of Dune fans that have read through God Emperor of Dune and did not understand that the invisibility to prescience was the bulk what Leto's Golden Path was (the Scattering being the other part).

I always thought the darkest future would be a prescient despot. Imagine a Harkonnen as a Kwisach Hedarach. Mankind would turn forever inward serving the capricious whims of the despot. Civilizations wouldn't expand and grow since absolute control would be necessary. Change would be the enemy. Any threat would be completely and immediately eradicated.

Leto the second was a hero. He painted himself a villain, while actually creating a tyranny that actually caused minimum loss of life and suffering. There is a great example where he had to kill some historians, to add to his infamy he executed them by burning, but he had actually sedated them so they wouldn't feel anything. He even discusses at great length how he is priming the culture to admire exploration, while restricting that thing. It was a tyranny, but a carefully constructed one, not the brutality of a despotic ruler.

I think this also ties in with the question of why Leto II didn't wipe out the Ixians to avert this apocalyptic future. Because Leto II knew that it would ultimately fail. That type of fear and thinking is exactly what led to Shaddam IV trying to wipe out the Atreides, and it ultimately led to his defeat and precisely what he feared coming to pass. No matter how skilled his Fish-Speakers were, there's no way Leto would have been able to completely eradicate the Ixians. And those Ixian survivors would likely have created the very hunter seeker weapon Leto II feared out of pure desperation or vengeance.

The Dune saga is so rich and complex it's a fascinating universe Herbert created

Duncan was important to Leto's breeding program thanks to his death at the blades of the Sardaukar, at variance with Paul's vision "Duncan was with him in that vision" - through clearly Duncan had avoided the grip that a prescient would have on setting a waveform-collapse on the local universe. Leto then back-bred Duncan with the Atreides to re-inforce this ability to disappear from prescient view and manipulation - resulting in biological mimesis that made humans invisible to prescience, in the form of Duncan's descendant, Siona Atreides. By the time of Heretics of Dune, almost all of humanity in the old Empire had Siona genes, so that the saying 'By the thousand sons of Idaho' and 'The nine daughters of Siona' takes on more meaning - within the 10,000 years after the fall of Leto II, the spread of these genes both within the Empire and the Scattering, allowed Bashar Miles Teg to reflect "Atreides, all of us...." I'm always suprised that the Bene Gesserit never picked up on this - but, then, as in the appendix from Dune (the Report on Bene Gesserit motives as compiled for the Lady Jessica) this seemed to be the clumsiness they often demonstrated - being blindsided by events where their assumptions proved wrong - and failing to learn from those mistakes in turn. Hence Leto II considered teaching them an even tougher lesson because "They are so close to what they should be, and yet so far..."

The ultimate human: a being immune to fate, immune to prophecy, immune to the machine.

One moment that resonated with me was a scene between the God-Emperor and Malky. We don't see their dialogue, but it's clear that Leto II told Malky about his visions of the Ixians creating the hunter seeker and asked him if the Ixians could not do it. And Malky simply sighed and chided Leto II, because no matter what, the Ixians couldnt stop. Because even with the warning of what they would create, they would simply assume that they could avoid such an outcome because of their confidence in themselves.

Man the parallel of Paul not taking on the task to save Humanity and letting his kids deal with it, matches to real world leaders always deferring the hardest problems to another generations problem.

An interesting idea is that part of Leto's golden path was actually helping humanity to overcome their aversion TO technology. Not only did he not crack down on the IXians but he was enamored with their machines, going so far as to have a dictaphone that could literally read his thoughts. Him getting rid of most of the universe's natural spice forced people to use computer navigation in their ships. By Chapte House the Bene Gesserite are even making cyborgs out of people.

The hunter-seeker in the first book was not programmed, it was steered by a human controller.

Nice one Quinn. I've been re-reading the original 6 books over the last year and I'm in Heretics now. I love how everyone is still trying to figure out what the hell the god emperor was actually trying to do. His ways were not understood during his long life and cannot be understood even through hundreds and thousands of years of study. He was written so well as a detached all knowing being, but at the same time a living raw nerve! Such a great character. Wish we knew more about his sister's life though. Is there a book by Herbert's son or Anderson or the two of them about her that I missed?

Another Dune video? You know Quinn is addicted to this series when he's still making stuff about it in 2023. Love the videos, man. Keep up the good work!

I am always fascinated that Count Fenring had the trait that Leto II was looking for in his own breeding program, except he couldn't pass it on.

As someone who tried and failed to get into Dune, I am immensely grateful for your ability to break down its high concepts and character motivations. The ending of Children of Dune made me not want to bother with God Emperor after Lato said he would be a worse tyrant than his father. Maybe I'll give it another shot when I have an avaliable audible credit.

This is what I love about the Dune saga. So much to get into. Everything that Sci-fi warns us about, has been done to 1000% in the Dune universe. It’s a horrific universe to exist in. Looking forward to checking out your long format videos.

There's a glimpse of another dark future at the end of Dune Messiah: "Again he stumbled. Chani, Chani he thought. There was no other way. Chani, beloved, believe me that this death was quicker for you . . . and kinder. They'd have held our children hostage, displayed you in a cage and slave pits, reviled you with the blame of my death. This way . . . this way we destroy them and save our children."

I appreciate the accuracy that you present. So many times I hear people talking about the Choice that Paul had to make and completely get it wrong. Paul DID know what the Golden Path ultimately was (though he didn't ever use that term, obviously - he called it his Terrible Purpose) that Leto put into motion, but he was unwilling or unable to make that sacrifice - but Leto ultimately was willing. Great work, my friend!

I believe Leto was coerced into this by his grandmother. She was poisoning him to death with spice and basically forcing him to put on the trout skin so he could escape. Not to mention that Aaliyah told the twins that in order to truly appreciate their memories they had to grow and make their own. Which they both agreed with. Leto was super young and didn’t have a full understanding of what he was giving up despite his vast knowledge of other memory.

It has been a while since I read the books, so my recollection may be a bit muddied. Something I recall picking up from Frank's books was that Paul, if not also Leto, considered their prescience to be a kind of curse. Maybe I imagined it but I thought Frank was making reference to concepts in physics like collapsing the superposition of probabilities through observation. I thought he was trying to suggest that seeing the future was like opening the box in Schrodinger's metaphor. Once observed, future events became crystalized removing any surprise and paradoxically any choice since the future observed would also include your knowledge of the future, and the actions you chose in response. The golden path was the best and possibly only way to avoid a myriad of cul-de-sacs to human existence. Moreover I got the sense that Paul was frightened to look any further forward for the chance that he might see, and therefore doom humanity to, a worse fate.

Glad to see you haven't forsaken the smaller videos. Still Quinn, with all these Dune videos, you should do some super cuts of all Dune videos besides just the playlist. All of the Explained in five minute episodes, all of the Ultimate guides together, etc etc for example

I always thought leto could see further into the future and thus see a bigger treat to humanity than paul imagined.

It is so good to see you back to Dune! It's awesome to see you covering other series, don't get me wrong, but I started following you all those years ago and you were covering dune a lot; it feels nostalgic

Man there´s no other youtuber like you explaning with such love and appreciation to Science Fiction books, the music, the audio, everything...This is the best channel to go deeper in this genre, keep bringing this amazing content! 👏👏

You always have such cool insights and explain things so well. It's been 20 years since I read these books and you talk about them with deep knowledge, but also very accessibly for people that don't know or remember all the details you mention and reference. One of the best.

I’m really glad that the movies are helping your videos blow up. Been watching you for years and it’s good you’re getting the recognition you deserve

its been a while, missed you

I think that it was not a singular threat but severall deadends for humanity. But what unified all this threats were the twin problems of stagnation or uncontrolled development. Basically he could save humanity by destroying every possible source of a possible bringer of the endtimes from within, but by doing so forcing humanity to stagnate what would mean they became suspectible of a outside threat.

I want you to know that it’s because of your Dune videos that I went and read all six books in the Saga last year. I so appreciate your quality content, and I can’t wait to start reading some other series that you’ve covered once I’m done with my Tolkien fix that I’m on. You are a terrific content creator. Thank you.

Sir...I think your research and what you do on your platform is brilliant! I wish that I could be one of those who could support your work properly, but I am on a budget. I will donate as best I can when I am able and you will be here for us to see your genius for some time in the future. Good luck!

I really appreciate your videos. Not many places exist where I can relive and review my adolescent days whiling away at these books.

The hype must flow

I’ve pondered a lot about why Leto II couldn’t just wipe out the Ixians. I suppose the Ixians were in some way inevitable. (Not trying to mix franchises, here.) Even if the Ixians were to be wiped out, there would someday arise another technological culture. The threat could only be delayed. Leto needed to reshape humanity to survive enemies of its own creation. The no-gene was the best, lasting solution. Don’t just remove a threat, but make us capable of surviving any threat.

Just going to compliment you on your music choice. In a world of soft jazz, I genuinely look forward to your sci-fi sounds.

I always assumed it was the end of humanity. I always felt like the core plot of Dune was the evolution of humanity, and the opposite of evolution is Extinction.

You’re videos are too short, I absolutely love them. Thanks for making such great content Quinn!

Saw the title. Saw it was from Quinn. Must watch! Love you man!

Hi I have followed and thoroughly enjoyed your content for a number of years and have finally been able to join patreon. I know it's the lowest , But I hope with time to increase. Thanks Quinn for your content and enthusiasm that keep me going.

Leto II is the most fascinating character, the despot saviour, the God Ruler who served all of humanity. A sacrifice of his blood line, so that his twin sister would not have to, and to watch generations of her descendants live and die knowing that he will not die but will devolve into some pearl of genetic remnant-consciousness within the worm cycle, so that the rest of the species can continue. That's some major sacrifice.

Love your vids man been watching since you were ideas of ice and fire and those vids are always fire

I constantly think about the god emperor and Nietzsche’s classic ‘stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back’. The two circle each other perfectly so

Great Video. I'd love for a compare and contrast of the Atreides Golden Path vs the Seldon Plan from Foundation, and how the two concepts are similar and how they're different. I'm surprised more people don't talk about this.

Man you must create more videos. You make me a dune fan. Already i reading original book series. Unfortunate my hand first get to childrens of dune . Now i found first and secend books but now I'm in mid of 3 book. For as 40k fan i really like dune this is magnificent.

Love your videos Quinn, they have this ASMR feeling to them because of your presentation and voice.I often fall asleep to you talking about mind viruses, dimensional collapse, mutations and other generally horrible things. But your presentation just makes it a pleasant experience

Quinn’s ideas are quite interesting 🤔, just re found your channel after some months absence, As they say absence makes the heart grow fonder !!! Intelligent insights into sci-fi well done m8 , all the videos that I’ve seen of your work are well thought out and excellently presented, keep up the great work Quinn !!! Thank you very much and have a good new year !

Thanks Quinn! Please make a ultimate Dune extended saga series!

I wonder if frank Herbert's last book was going to tackle the belief in God's and faith. I'm not sure, but Daniel and Marty seemed like a caution against trusting in a greater power. We will sadly never know, but it's a fun idea.

Hey Quinn, just wanted to say thank you for getting my love of more classic science fiction back. It's because of you that I've had several hours of content to listen and relisten to while working and I finally decided to pick up the first book of Remembrance of Earth's Past on Audible today after being so interested in those videos you've done. Also listening to the podcast this week which as been fun. I was curious as to what the new theme you have is, because it sounds killer and absolutely perfect for your channel.

great video as usual. I never would have had the patience to grasp this increasingly bizzar universe, and your soothing narration and expositions are always a treat. p.s. though i like the new intro composition, i do kinda miss the OG... thanks for sharing your passion

There is something I have been struggling to reconcile with the Dune books so I suspect I am missing something. It is always stated that one of the main theme of the books is to be a warning against following charismatic leaders. And yet, if it weren't for these specific charismatic leaders, Paul and Leto II, humanity is doomed to extinction. Which seems to be implying that we need charismatic leaders? What am I missing?

You don't understand how excited I see that you've posted another video! I literally clear my schedule for at least 20 minutes to just listen to your sci-fi lore explanations!

Very good to see you talking about Dune again! You do a better job than anyone I’ve ever come across at laying out the richness of the lore.

More Dune content pleeassee Quinns Ideas is my favourite Dune related conversion/ videos!!

Loved the video. I read the original hexalogy in my early teens for the first time, way before the prequels came out. Despite that I always believed that Kralizec, the spectre of doom that loomed over mankind had everything to do with the very thing that the commandments of the Butlerian Jihad were all about: prohibiting humanity from ever developing thinking machines again. I expected them to either come from IX (which would fit your theory of the "kwisatz haderach" hunter-seeker device, or from beyond the borders of the empire, i.e. remnants of the thinking machine empire). Maybe that's also why I was not so peeved about the prequels and sequels written by Herbert's son and Kevin Anderson. I expected the Enemy to be the thinking machines. Although written in a very different style, I enjoyed reading them, and discovering more about the Dune universe, greatly. Pretty much the only thing I was peeved about (but that came along much later when I had worked my way through the two sequel books), was Ominus and Erasmus being the old married Face Dancer couple. That simply made no sense to me. I do not know if Frank Herbert ever intended for it to be so, but there are entries in his larger body of work that deal with similar issues, albeit less extensively. Similar plot elements and similar motifs are presents which to me suggest that they share a universe with the Dune Saga. At the same time, Frank Herbert was notorious for reusing various terms and concepts for a multitude of his books, so what do I know ;-).

Another excellent Dune video, thank you! Despite his transformation Leto II was the most human of all at that time. He had so many millions of lives, some going all the way back to early Earth to draw from. He's always been my favorite character due to his complexity.

Glad to see you back 🥳 did yall see that live yesterday comparing dune and game of thrones?

Always great content.. love Dune as a topic. & the later books which I guess ur gona cover here.

I follow many channels and this is probably the most consistently high quality content. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, passion and putting so much work into making these vids 🙏🍻

I always assumed Paul and later Leto was trying to protect humanity from the threat of (or perhaps another) Omnius and Erasmus, possibly Cymecs.

Finally! This is the central topic which must be brought into focus in order to see the main plot & theme of the series. Thank you!

I love this channel and I wish Quinn would post videos more often :(

Love these deep dives into Dune.

God emperor is still my favorite sci fi book ever; Leto II is so well written, I’ve never seen any other author get close to making such a nuanced and idealistically driven character. His death at the hands of those stupid, horny schlubs always makes me shed a tear.

Love hearing your ideas on dune, dude. I assume the topic you're talking about is the new trailer? :3 Hopefully. would love to see it. Cheers man!!

I love the new intro music! Also, new Dune content is always welcomed!

Hello, have you heard about our Lord and saviour, the God Emperor of Mankind? (A grimmer, darker possible future.)

Sadly, Paul chose to chew off his own foot instead of enduring the long suffering required to save the pack.

No matter how hard we try, death machines will inevitably emerge. We can only delay their arrival, not prevent it entirely. The idea of a death machine possessing foresight is deeply disturbing.

I liked and subscribed because I enjoy your content and you have a wonderful voice for narration.

I love so much Dune my favourite book series. It is so mystical, we have economic, politics, intrugues, "magic" technolofy.. ooohhh

This is just one interpretation. However... that's how I see it. Paul is no hero. But... He is the man who frees the Fremen! The man who beat the Harkonen! True, but he was almost acting on instinctive self-preservation. He did what he did to survive and it just worked! He never showed any willingness to put himself aside during this struggle. It was just that his personal interest aligned with the interests of the Fremen. Becoming a messianic figure was also necessary for him to survive and secure his position. This guy never did ANYTHING that did suit him 100%. And then came the hard part. Doing the sacrifice. But Paul was like "No, no, no thank you very much. Let someone else do it". He had the choice to save the Fremen and everyone else and he said "Eh...No... I would rather be at peace and have a good legacy. I am already a hero. Get someone else". I mean, it is normal even for heros to lose their courage or have second thoughts, even Jesus had that. But the difference is that they do the right thing in the end. On the other hand, imagine if Jesus said "Ok... Forget this dying on the cross thing. Nope. I did my part", well, in the context of Dune we do not have to imagine anything. Paul did just that. Paul was the ultimate "bad" individualist. Someone who had great power thrusted upon him and instead of doing the right thing, he kicked the can further down the road. Leto the second was a tyrant. Most would say a benevolent one. Some would say an inexcusable one. Some would say that it doesn't matter because he was still a tyrant. I got my opinion but that's not what we are talking about here. Leto the second was the ultimate "good" individualist. But... How can he be an individualist if he sacrificed himself, his legacy and even his individuality for the others? He absolutely can. Because HE did it. HE felt that only HIM could do it that it was HIS duty. He took it upon him to save humanity because that was his way. And if that meant being a tyrant and oppressing everyone, he would do it because nothing and noone was as important as his mission. He did everything because he believed in his ultimate personal responsibility. And why is he "good". Well, that's easy. He made the sacrifice so that humanity lives. And he took all the burden for humanity to survive.

I gave a friend your video on the complete Dune saga ..and he’s shocked at how ef’ng dark it gets 😳

Awwyeeahhh!!! New Quinns!!! Love it my brew!!! New Dune content from you is like Christmas lol

What I find interesting and its not something ive seen talked about much is how almost all of our evidence for such fates come from Leto himself. If we consider he is an unreliable narrator then suddenly his apparently nobility and selflessness comes into question. Would there REALLY have been no people left if leto hadnt become the God emperor? We actually can't know for sure because this info only comes from leto, who could easily be lying to justify his own tyranny.

Glad to see another Dune video!

Bravo sir. Your understanding, insight and interpretation of so much complexity within the Dune Saga is what I would consider scholarly and, which could be done at university levels. You certainly have enriched my experience with it and helped to I make me an even greater fan of this classic story. Thank you so much.

Thanks for sharing, Quinn! I'm currently re-reading the Wheel of Time. Afterward, I think another reading of the Dune saga is in order.

I had another thought - is the destruction of humanity in this scenario really just physical death...? What if this monstrous scenario does not involve physical extinction, but a complete and utter loss of human essence. A complete distortion of the species - even more inhumane than the Tleilaxu and the Honored Matres combined?

“Some of you may die, but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”

My 2 cents, by spending money on the Ixians and also preventing interstellar travel from almost all people the need for a hunter seeker that could be prescient was reduced. You don't need to have a hunter seeker capable of traveling between stars to hunt down a target, you just need a hunter seeker on a specific planet and it goes after people. IF interstellar travel was still allowed freely then eventually the natural course of a technologically based arms race between houses would have seen a hunter killer capable of using a small holstmen drive to travel between worlds and using prescience be able to teleport directly to a foe and kill them. Those actions gave them time to work on the camouflage gene.

That's fascinating. Also I'm surprised I followed you considering I read these through a decade or more ago

Leto the Second is the Machiavellian Hero we all deserve. What a legendary character in fiction.

Dune is ultimately about defeating the Great Filter

Wow your opening theme music got super boosted :P

Another fantastic video! Thank you, love the channel!

Shame that Frank Herbert died before completing his series.

If reading like this were mandatory in school I’d be interested in seeing how that affects the decades to come.

You should review "the star maker." Lot's of interesting conceptual idea's about possible lifeforms.

Always got time for your Dune vids

It’s not just “Paul’s actions,” as you say here, but also (and I cannot stress this enough) because of his refusal to act. Which forces it upon his second son, Leto II (the God Emperor).

I honestly feel that, as good as the latest Dune movie was, it could never reach the depths of the books. The movie is still for normies in my opinion, focusing mostly on the action sequences, and not on the deeper messages.

Just a quick comment on editing, I LOVE your videos, but the intro could be pulled back a bit volume-wise. Your voice is perfect, but that intro shocks me sometimes :) Love the music though :) keep it up!

I am currently revisiting the Dune books. And, like the LOTR, Dune never loses its appeal. Love your work.

Thank you for being one of the very few to get it. Paul is a failure, and a bit of a coward. He knew what lies ahead and knew he had to become a monster to save humanity, but was unable to do it. Leto II was the true hero. Everyone tries to analyze Dune using modern political sensibilities (and postmodern bullshittery like saying that Paul and Leto II were unreliable narrators) and that it’s about power corrupting, or that Leto was a villain by enforcing his will, and they miss the whole point - it’s about Letos sacrifice in becoming a monster and being remembered as a monster while simultaneously making that sacrifice to be the true hero in saving humanity.

Quinn, I was wondering if you are ever going to do a video about the three other Wallfacers in the Three Body Problem and The Dark Forest. What were their plans and why did those plans failed.

Keep them coming, Quinn! Love your work, as usual.

Dune's cool and all but this whole, "the totalitarian fascist that removed people's freedoms and killed without mercy was right all along," angle seems like it goes AGAINST the original purpose of the books which were (according to Frank Herbert [according to the internet]) to warn people against charismatic and powerful leaders. But if space h1tler never existed, humanity would have gone extinct? If you view the series from that angle, it absolutely fails in the most embarrassing way. The series is still awesome, has mind blowing concepts, great prose, pretty cool characters and a very other-worldly feel. But... the series is kind of cringe when it suggests that the only thing that can save humanity is a brutal, heartless totalitarian dictator. If there's any truth to that in real life our species should just go extinct. That would not be a tragedy. Why bother even being around if we're all just going to be dicks to each other?