What ways have you noticed that they have buffed big bodies in other games? (also please subscribe)

I read the title as Big Booty Characters and thought LK had lost it.

Tekken’s King is definitely a benefactor of the big body trust fund. He currently has multiple armored moves he doesn’t have to commit to and powerful, fast counter hit moves on top of the best throw game.

'gief stocks are on the rise in sf6 too!

In ACR, Potemkin is sitting pretty confortably in mid tier. His tools are still crazy, he just doesn't have the loopable unblockable or the universal pickup from slidehead otg. Potemkin Buster being 3f no counterhit recovery while crushing low will terrorize anybody in the right conditions, and he was the model of " How to make slow big body work " for everyone else past him. Slidehead and Flick are the defining moves of modern big body philosophy afterall.

GGACR Pot main here! Most people now a days generally place potemkin around mid to low mid tier. He has a good few differences from Vanilla AC like no more OTGS from slidehead causing such easy unlockables (he still has unblockable setups with slidehead, but they're nowhere near as obnoxious as they are in vanilla and every character (TMK) has an escape in the form of backdash), no more frc on regular pot buster (it's now placed on Air pot buster which is a force break) and a few smaller adjustments like no gatlings off of his old 6K overhead etc. In my opinion +R pot is easily my favorite version of potemkin and the version of the character I have the most fun with! While I'm by no means a top level player, I think a really big part of why potemkin is so solid in +R is because of primarily two things: One his terrifyingly strong okizeme, and two, his reward. Potemkins okizeme isn't as varied as some other characters, but what makes it so potent is how strong each option is, he has an 18f overhead in 6k as well as 5K which is a standing low like in later games, pair this with tick grab setups and potemkin has obscenely strong oki, and all of these options lead to combos that end with hard knockdowns. Speaking of, potemkins reward in +R and to a greater extent Vanilla AC is the best its ever been in any guilty gear, so much of potemkins options reward a knockdown that it means that he can very easily loop his okizeme and grappler mix without having to be in the corner like it is in a game like Xrd. Probably the best examples being heat knuckle dropping the opponent at pots feet so that he can move up way more easily, as well as things like his 2D being special cancelable allowing him to close the gap with a hammerfall break after hitting the opponent, and things like pot having a vacuum effect on 2S giving him much stronger conversions that he doesn't have in later titles. On top of that potemkin still has obscenely high damage, meaning as long as he has the right resources many of his combos can do easily upwards of 60-80% health, with some combo starters effectively being a round ender depending on the character and (again) the resources. I think it's all these things that make him such a solid character, I hope that I get to see a version of potemkin that's as fun as he is in +R come back, since nothing else has cut it for me LOL. P.S. Sorry if this reply is a bit long btw :P

I'm kinda shocked you didn't talk about SF5 Abigail. He's pretty bad now, but there was awhile where he was the single most reviled character in the game period. He had everything, big fast buttons, high hp, absurd risk/reward on just about everything he does, he was a menace. Also gotta shout out the original garbage heavy, GG Missing Link Potemkin. To be fair, this guy is so flawed that even if you shrunk him to a quarter of his size, he'd still be utter garbage. He had ALL the big body weaknesses, and didn't really have any of the strengths either. Almost his entire kit is unsafe on hit, let alone block. He had no movement options, basically no combos in a game where nearly the entire cast has infinites, minimal defensive options, it was a bad time all around.

Nago and goldlewis moment

And then there's MvC2's Sentinel, the big body who didn't play like a big body (and dominated that game because of it). I love huge characters but it's interesting how few of them are zoners.

11:09 potemkin is pretty solid in plus r. He doesn't have that unblockable loop, but he still has solid anti zoning tools, like flick, and pretty good pressure on knockdown, with his overhead low mixup, vacuum on crouching slash, heat knuckle withouth extend leaving the oponnent close, etc I say for me one of the better ways to make a grappler good, is just helping them keep the pressure up close, once they get it. Like for example Abel in street fighter 4 had a step kick that he could dash cancel, helping him close distance, and keep pressure even outside point blank range. Xrd Potemkin in the other hand, had heat knuckle send the opponet full screen, even without extend, so he had to slowly get in *again*

If you play SNK, Skullgirls, or Them's fighten herds. You are feasting good with the big bodies. Also MVC somewhat.

It's like devs realized that watching someone getting hit by a powerful command grab is actually a hype moment in a tournament :p

Everyone says they want more big body characters represented, but every time a big body has a ghost of a chance, people change face. I honestly think they are included in (new game) rosters just because everyone expects one. All the system mechanics are like "GOGOGO SURELY I WILL WIN BECAUSE MY SPEED IS SUPERIOR" but still bother to develop a character that just goes against everything they developed. Almost like a big body character must suffer in order for a game to release lmao.

One thing I actually have never understood is the need to make grapplers and big bodies have little to no defense. Like, the point of them having high Hp and damage is because they must conquer their space to the enemy, and profit from it. That much is clear. But when they are being mauled in a corner, they usually can do almost nothing to stop it, and it becomes a one-player game, which is not the reason of their high Hp. I am not asking to give a combo-able counter or a Strive Sol's DP, but something that allows a "get off me" not hidden behind a resource system, and even this is often denied (Strive Pot had one, was removed and left with nothing for almost two years, got a new one -WWA-, and people are already crying out to remove this one too). And when I ask or read about it, its some sort of obvious, fundamental thing that no one explains in the end. So, why is that?

Not enough Abigail SFV footage, great big body character.

Quote on quote free thinkers doing hammer fall fast rc garuda

An example I can think of is making more things universal. Universal jumpsquats in ssbu and universal 4 frames in sf6 come to mind. Big characters used to suffer in these very general areas.

Oh man, the recent CEO Guilty Gear Strive tournament which has the Pot player, was so much fun to watch. Even when he lost to tempest, us matches were entertaining.

0:27 I also have the issue of being too big where I can't get in.

Another thing I've noticed is that in certain older games, the big bodies had restrictive cancel routes or huge recovery on most of their moves... which meant they had bad combos, which meant they had bad damage, which meant they don't even get the BENEFITS of being a big body. Also, I've wanted to mention this for a while but didn't have a spot so I'll talk about him here: Earthquake form Samurai Shodown (2019). Is he a big body? In the literal sense, yes, but "Big Body" in this context describes a mechanical character archetype that he DOESN'T fit into. Is he large? Yes, absolutely. But big bodies are also slow and hit really hard, neither of which describe Earthquake. He has a slow run speed, but he has all the mobility options of the "ninja" characters, those being wall jumps and teleports. They're worse than normal, but he HAS them, and that makes his mobility at least average. Damage? Well, his big "SamSho Button" has damage dependent on distance as it's a multi-hit move. The first hit even has fast startup for a heavy so it's not even slow. The only metric by which Earthquake is a "Big Body" is his size, and I think that's really interesting!

waiting for them to add a non big body grappler to guilty gear (like blue mary or hinako in kof)

Potemkin was likely the single most influential big body character after Gief himself. The amount of tools that were spearheaded by Pot that you see in other games is absurd. Drink everytime a big body has a variant of Hammerfall.

I hate playing against big bodies with command grabs, cause 50/50 for dear life feels like hell. But I love watching someone else go through that hell, the struggle is entertaining to a hilarious degree.

Then you have Virtua fighter 5 where Big Bodies have the highly advantageous "heavy weight class" meaning you can't juggle them high enough for many combo routes and they're much harder to ring out. Oh, but you bet they can combo and ring out lighter characters with ease

Broly and 16 keep me coming back even though my super dash timing is trash.

In dbfz rn, you can argue that like 3 of the top 5-10 is big bodies (cell, jiren, nappa)

We did it, we went a video talking about big body characters without mentioning White Wild Assault!!! Nature is healing!

I agree that Accent Core Potemkin was an absolute menace. He was considered to be A tier in that version of Guilty Gear.

Speaking of Big Bodies, and your awesome Anakaris Vampire Savior video in the past... explaining those type of old school games. Have you ever looked into that sort of- Hyper-esque Darkstalkers version of DS3/VS1/VS2/VH2 game on the Dreamcast called Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service which the PSP Chaos Tower is originally based from? Very interesting version, it is now with rollback on Fightcade 2 and Nulldc Bear. Would love to hear a dissection of that special version of the game... the improvements that it brings and the pseudo (not so faithful but interesting) play modes such as being able to play a Vampire, Hunter, Savior & Savior 2 style of any character... and modes like Vampire, Hunter & Savior that define meter system and round system format. There's even funky stuff like Hunter version of BB Hood (which doesn't actually exist in Hunter) is a motion character instead of charge.... very interesting stuff. Game still plays like a VS1/VS2 game with the same turbo speed you would expect from VS1/VS2 and it's not entirely faithful to their respective games when you see style of choices... take it more of an inspiration and kinda restoring some aspects like original input of movelists if they have changed or... things like Dimitri's Hunter/Vampire Fireball returning to what it was in Hunter/Vampire. Dashes also change too... like Hsienko having a regular dash under Vampire mode, instead of her slow disappearing in and out dashes. There's even some 2017 local tourneys of this game in recent times, that even the likes of MikeZ have played in person. Feel like it would be an interesting dive in for a retro fighting game video... Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service, Hyper Street Fighter 2, or even the likes of Darkstalkers Vampire Savior 1 Arrange with Dee and every character under mostly VS1 based balancing & mechanics with the right balancing dipswitches on from the Vampire Darkstalkers PS2 Collection and Hyper Street Fighter Alpha from the Anthology PS2 Collection... It felt like it was the MKX variation system before variation systems were even a thing. Here's some reference links: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zt92gaiLrLXYhIE.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a8tjfqirtqe2n40.html

I think that, for a long time, they thought that huge grab damage, on a really low skill opponent, was seen as bad or against the casual player. That is one of the only reasons I can think of why it lasted this long. Grabs were also seen as cheap in the reallll old days.

dlanor from the umineko fighter can just summon a barrier that blocks all projectiles and walk at you with it up. Also her offense is ridiculous for a variety of reasons.

Someone mentioned King already but Marduk in Tekken 7 was also an absolute menace, and lately, Jack-8 has been buffed so much a lot of people consider him a top tier.

With big body comes big responsibility

I like Shiffon from daemon bride, she's a full screen zoner who in addition to covering the screen in projectiles has traps and heavy normals that cover the entire known universe, but when you get through all her bullshit she goes surprise I'm a grappler and hits you with an ex command grab that puts your ass back in the opposite corner, great character design, not at all frustrating to deal with.

Fun video, I like these characters despite being terrible with them.

Uni grappler and bigbodys are usually powerful: Gordeau (A tier) Waldstein (A-B tier) Merk (S-Atier) so yea... They are strong!

Oh god Strive Pot 2P is frame 8, no wonder players wanted 5P to hit crouchers so bad.

I think big body should have meterless reversal

I think that both Capcom and ArcSys have traditionally hated letting big bodies be strong. I think grapplers have thrived more often in SNK games in the previous eras. Capcom only let a big body be good on accident with Sentinel in Marvel 2. He had all the traditional big body weaknesses, but because of unintended behaviors he was one of the highest mobility characters instead of the lowest. In addition he had many of the things you note from this video, full screen tools that are threatening with full screen damage into super. He also had advantage in the war of attrition with the combination of big body highest health status, while doing really well in trades and also at accruing chip over time. Instead of being the character that needed to get in, in the majority of matchups other characters needed to get in on him. I think that another thing which allows grapplers to be pushed in the current meta for games is that there's a stronger push toward offense with mechanics that let characters get closer together more easily on both sides. For characters that want to interact closer together this is beneficial and it serves the big bodies. There's also an aversion to certain types of strong zoning existing and more tools universally to get through it, so one of the primary weaknesses of having an oversized hurtbox in that it's hard to get around things is often less impactful than it previously was.

I may not play Smash competitively anymore but I'm always rooting for my boy K Rool. He's so much fun to play (though I'm like one of three people who think he's better than bottom tier, it seems) especially since he got a ton of stuff other heavies in smash typically don't have.

8:55 I don’t understand. What mixup? You just did air normals and pot blocked low so he got hit.

even in GGST Giovanna previously had an infinite against standing potemkin where she could go 66 5K > J.S > J.H > J.D > 66 5K ... over and over (until the wall breaks :P)

The funny thing is calamity trigger tager had exactly one winning matchup and it was brutally winning ... Against ragna.

I think SNK and many airdashers are better than some of their more grounded counterparts at adding to the utility of the big bodies over flattening their balance to lack of mobility and high single hit damage. I'd love if more took what is inherently unique about the characters and made those the malleable points. I think it'd be neat to take the weakness of the big hurtbox and instead had it so they were a stance character that could alter that big weakness with skill.

7:47 I've never heard the term "offensive fuzzy guard". I always thought people called it "fuzzy" cuz it was short for "fuzzy guard break"

Here because of Marisa from Street Fighter 💪🏻

This video could have been titled "How KoF made their big bodies and grapplers viable." No f-shiki. Juggle hurtboxes the same for everyone. Full screen lows. Armor that works. Good normals. Armored or Invulnerable grabs. Yep, all present across the kof big boys and girls.

LKs hairline goes crazy

If only heavies were good in platform fighters, the only remotely good heavy in Ultimate is bowser (Kazuya is a heavy weight in stats but not spirit)

Speaking of latin queens Doesn't Gio still have that rejump loop on big bodies? Also interesting to note differences between big bodies and grapplers, they're not always the same thing, eg Marisa.

KOF: let the mf run

" Latin Queens " 😅

why do you blink so much no offense just curious

I think the issue is somewhat indirect. Most devs have decided that aggression should be rewarded. This works great for rushdown and even for Zoning, as system mechanics focused on canceling and converting can be great for long range pressure. But it puts Grappler/Turtle characters in an awkward position. They're inherently defensive so they can't be too good or else it will encourage reactive rather than proactive play. I think this is what's hurting the Big Boys the most, what was once their main selling point, strong defense, is often intentionally nerfed. Potemkin and Zangief used to be able to use their grabs defensively, to the point where even madmen like Kazunoko would slow down and keep a safe distance. Now people usually think of Grapplers as weak defensively. This focus on offense also means devs usually don't design more than one explicit Grappler so turtling is a lot more limited on a meta level. Waldstein is actually pretty strong in UNI2, his grabs work fine defensively and the new system mechanics make turtling better compared to previous versions. But there are like 20 other characters with more on the way, all with different pressure tools to account for. Meanwhile they only have to practice cracking Wald, maybe Enkidu and Akatsuki on a stretch. I'm hoping Ogre will be the T. Hawk to Walds Zangief, but I won't hold my breath.

Day 2 asking for Zato

Big Boys Foreveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

bro forgot to mention sf6 zangief, rn contesting for top 1 by top players which is funny

FGC be like: GIVE ME THAT FATBOY

I'm surprised no one has mentioned SFV Laura. She was an absolute menance, and that was before iDom got his hands on her. He kind of changed everything after that.

white wild assault trauma

Ban potemkin, ionwanna deal with that shit

Grapplers arent people

CP and CF made all my years of struggling with tager and getting walled out by Jin j.C worth it