Most of the “festivals” make their money on all the submissions. Then they cheap out on the actual festival part.

It feels like this would be the ideal time to have a cooperative of small creators who can make this happen.

Great video, and there’s so many more reasons that fests are detrimental to that B class of filmmakers. So many smaller fests are blatant scams/cash grabs, even some mid-level ones that seem respectable on the surface. Fortunately fests are becoming more obsolete now that filmmakers can find their own audiences directly, so hopefully they’ll be forced to improve what they actually offer us if they want to survive.

Sometimes my KZfaq browse page sends me the exact type of content I am looking for. Thank you for fighting for filmmakers

" *EXPOSURE* " *is the fiat currency predatory, talentless, leaches use to profit off of talented artists in film **_and_** in the music industry.* If more artists would demand fair compensation for their work in any and all forums, and refused to be suckered into the "exposure" fantasy, the leaches would change to accommodate or die off. How can indie film makers create their own festivals❓

I think by the time I finish the film, I'm so exhausted that the last thing I want to do is promote it. Took me 4 years to make it, time to move on to the next project. And the middlemen take advantage of this..Very sad.

I came from a music background before I got into filmmaking and it's exactly the same. "Battle of the Bands" style "festivals" with $150 entry fees promising huge crowds and exposure, but on the day it's the backroom of some dive bar and there's only 10 ppeople there that aren't from one of the other bands. It's a classic pay to win scam I see time and time again.

I had this exact thing happen with Gravitas Ventures on my first feature film. It’s so validating yet heart breaking to know it wasn’t just me. Thank you for offering an alternative!

The wind was taken out of my sails completely when my most ambitious film and first one out of film school went untouched by festivals. Although I’m finally back to making films and releasing trailers for them - seeing this video back then would have saved me years of thinking there was no alternative option. Thanks so much for this !!!

Yup. 100% Scam. Stuff like this makes me realize how privileged I actually are, being able to literally just choose my customers. They´re not always easy and you have to give a lot sometimes, but damn, at least I´m not getting ripped off.

For me this is up there with “Rebel Without a Crew” but for Producer/Directors as a real-life take on how to make, or in this case, distribute films. Very well done. Thank you!

no.1 Thing you mentioned is screening fees. Some festivals do this but nowhere near enough. As you say, film festivals don't exist without films but for some reason, they don't pay filmmakers to screen their work?? I'm not sure how they get away with this!

Vanity vanity all is vanity. Look the internet has given every creative an outlet for their art. But guess what? Creatives hand back their power by craving to be on big platforms and services. KZfaq, TikTok your social media page and YOUR DAMIN WEBSITE are all the things you need. Read the runes, the tea leaves or how about use your eyes to see that chasing godot is a pointless exercise. You already have the platform, build your audience and they will come. Heck whilst creatives have been sitting on their hands, influencers came out of nowhere to use their videos and photos to make money and I say this as a musician having seen this madness in the music industry.

the rule of avoiding the middle ... be fringe or be hollywood (and know that innovation truly happens on the fringe)

Yep, it was happening in the early Hollywood days until artist got together. This is what’s needed now. United Artists Corporation (UA) is an American production and distribution company founded in 1919 by D.W. Griffith, Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks as a venture premised on allowing actors to control their own interests rather than being dependent upon commercial studios

We made a pilot for a unusual Fantasy Series on our own, won about 90 awards on international festivals… still no chance to get it produced. Also got ripped off by distributor/service company, who „tried“ to sell it to production companies and streaming services.

You literally just described the entire music industry over the past 60 years.

I intern in a distribution company.... And it was a joke, we were not allowed to answer the phone, in case it was the IRS.... It was crazy. I remember trying to catch HBO execs in a festival, everyone hated our company, I felt bad for the directors and producers. I left without notice....

As a movie lover, I knew it wasn’t easy for regular people to make movies but I never really thought about it at this level. Wow.

The audience is getting ripped off also. A movie of the week in an early 4 hour cut is sold as a season of a tv series.

I distributed my own films in theatres across the UK, we sold out all the theatres we played in with minimal publicity- it was the biggest opening for a documentary in a decade, as long as it plays for 7 days we qualified for a BAFTA and was selected in competition. I then sold it directly to tv networks all around the world. It means you get to work on your film for another couple of years after you’ve finished it. My films are all in profit but I had a lot to learn. Film festivals are just ripping filmmakers off and in my experience they are simply not worth it. I’ve done all the models of distribution including film festivals ( sun dance, Cannes, Rain dance and many more) KZfaq, Vimeo, sales agents, major distributors and the “become your own distributor model” works the best but it takes effort and it’s a steep learning curve. It’s worth it in the end!

This is why I slowed down. I focused on teaching all these things but nobody wanted to pay for that info

This is super neat. I remember I did VFX on a short film that got into a few festivals which the director asked me to travel with him to attend and do Q&A. It was so sad over time to see his ambition diminish to eventually go on Amazon where nobody paid to watch it, to end up on KZfaq for free where... nobody watched it. There were highs at the festivals but not much else to outweigh his monetary/time investment into it. The project I'm working on right now tries to defy a lot of the walls created in the filmmaking sphere and broaden horizons for storytellers. The teaser trailer for it is on my KZfaq channel and is also where the project will be uploaded once it's done. Great video. Will definitely check out more :)

Can relate. In 2023, we had a festival completely skip our QnA because of empty seats, when the full screening before it had one. I even went to a feature film screening at another fest and instead of a QnA after, they did an award ceremony for one short that won that no one there had seen. Also had a festival downgrade a film from award winning and screening to finalist and not screening because the filmmaker who planned on going could not make the 12 hour drive last minute. Festivals, like many distributors, have become a total scam.

thank you for this informative take, a lot of romanticization goes on in creative industries and few actually give the reality on how things get done. this system honestly reminds me a lot of what going on with music streaming

See, THIS is the kind of video Film Courage fails to produce: ones that layout the cartography of failure and bullshit that you don't know about until it's too late. I wish there'd be more of this insider concept mapping that everybody else seems afraid to do because of gatekeeping.

Amazing video, I think a lot of filmmakers get embarrassed about these stories, and you being honest about this is amazing.

The distributors that "do nothing to promote it" is so spot on.

This was a damn important piece, Dean. In some ways, a well-needed stiff slap in the face. As I embark on a new chapter as a doc filmmaker (after 42 years in the marketing business), understanding the cold reality of getting your film seen and earning money is absolutely essential. Pollyanna doesn't live here, and I appreciate the effort you put into making this video.

Great video Dan. I know exactly what you’re talking about. After I made my first film this still happens to me with it. A lot of effort, a lot of DIY with the requirements, money wasted on applying to festivals. It’s a little bit infuriating and discouraging because you have to go through all this hoops once you already left blood, tears, sweat and a lot of money while actually making the movie.

Great video, you perfectly articulate what it's like to be an indie filmmaker hustling with their low budget feature. I was one of those B filmmakers, and a couple of years back I started doing the C thing. Make some little films, release them online, just because I love making things. It is SO HARD to get any of my friends in that B category to understand that I have no ambition to "succeed". They spend so much time hustling for money and connections, and most ultimately get nothing but heartbreak out of it. There's also the giant scam of screenplay competitions. Pay them a bunch of money, they give you some laurels that tell you that you're a quarter finalist or a semi finalist. It makes a writer feel like they accomplished something, but so many of them are submitting to dozens of festivals with hope, and the best they can hope for is a meeting with some producer no one has heard of.

Omg man I have sunk so much cash into festival submissions. It's like an evil Buffy-style hellmouth that I keep feeding - with little to no return! I'm at the point where I've submitted to lots of smaller festivals in the past to get the laurels and now I'm looking for BAFTA and Oscar qualifying festivals as I want to get that on my CV in order to open more doors for funding and finding an agent. Not had the indy feature experience but it's great to know about this stuff for the future. Keep up the good work!

Most of these ”film festivals” seem to be some kind of fantasy for sale, like an escort or girlfriend for hire. But for filmmakers and their ego, so that they can live out the fantasy of being a ”real” filmmaker. I dont think there would be many left if they would need to pay the filmmakers.

Some “distributors” even charge you every month.

This is the most accurate description of what actually happens. I’ve made four studio distributed features and a few non-studio releases. I’ve been through all of this many times and I wholeheartedly agree. Don’t bother with festivals. Don’t bother with finding a big distributor. Give it away in the end and garnish the views. The more people see your work, the more you may be able to fundraise off them in the future. Take your money, make lots of high quality shorts, maybe a series, get followers, build your brand and fundraise off them. That’s how you grow. Making shit quality $10k-50k films that you force people to pay for viewing, won’t get ya anywhere. Sure you may find a distributor, but you won’t grow as a filmmaker and you’ll be stuck to making the same film over and over again, whatever the distributor wants. Only, nobody will ever see it. Get the views. Get your skillset up, then graduate to something bigger. That’s really the only way to do this sadly.

This video feels incredibly relevant right now. Thanks for sharing your experience, as a co-founder of a small company looking at festival and distribution options for our latest film in the coming year, not enough is said about this sometimes nastier part of the industry, this is so helpful!

dude, i'm a filmmaker from Cleveland and I hear you. thank you for putting this out there.

Really wonderful and thoughtful video. I hope that with the surge of user generated content we slowly see a shift in how studios view streaming and original work. Your channel is bangin, can’t wait to see where you take it.

You bring up some excellent points about festivals and distribution, and how much money you end up spending on the marketing/promotion. I never really understood how festivals still benefit most filmmakers with platforms like Vimeo and KZfaq. I will say in order to qualify as a potential director, my mentor had to have one of his films on a streaming platform like HBO or Apple to be in the running for a Hollywood feature film. He told me how hard it was (before getting the film) and how exhausted he was. Even then it was still timing and luck (aside from his talent) that got him the opportunity. Even to go from Tier B to A there's so much risk where it isn't really worth it for the average person. So it is hard to feel optimistic about the whole thing at large. Thanks for making this video, I learned quite a bit more about the process. It validated a few things I thought about when it came to festivals like, "why am I paying to see my film?" or if distribution is really worth exploring.

Very interesting. I directed and produced my first film recently. Two things fascinated me most. I quickly learned that a very large number of festivals are money grabs. You will have one organization hosting 4-8 festivals a year with different themes. All mediocre festivals at best. Then you have some festivals who I don’t think even watch the films. My film got in to a few somewhat prestigious festivals but then would not get into the lower tier festivals which perplexed me. My film was also screened at the worst times but then I would have people talk to me after the festival about how my film was one of the best they saw screened in my category. I learned a lot and am very grateful. I was considering doing a video sharing my experience some time ago then came across this. Really good video.

You hit the nail on the head! I am loving out that story now. I also think festivals should offer some kind of value to the rejected films. Why should the rejected films fund the festival?

Heck yeah this is so informative and I love your alt ideas!

Never seen your content. I almost skipped this video because I thought it was going to be another exaggerated low-information video. Ended up loving everything about it. Thank you!

Amazing video; insightful and eye-opening. It's good to hear it, and know you're not alone.

Superb video....festivals have lost their prestige, I had a film on the festival circuit and I am 99.9% sure my submission wasn't even getting watched and I'd spent a fortune on them. Some are great, but many make it a bad process for those who actually care about the filmmakers. This video sums up a lot, we should get our short films straight out onto platforms like KZfaq. Good video, I can share this with a few guys I've been trying to preach this message to.

This was such a helpful video!! Appreciate this highkey🙌🏾

This was great man! I think another issue with film festivals is the amount of time we spend just waiting around to hear something back...and then when you finally do, the odds are it's often discouraging news. And if you can only afford to submit to a couple festivals, there's a good chance you won't get into any (like you said, 1 in 10), which is a huge bummer. I think I've leaned too hard on festivals for validation in the past and that combination of time wasted and confidence lost, reallllly stalls me out on getting started on the next project.

Yup. Massive joke from the distributors / sales reps, they still work off an 80's sales template. They mostly distribute junk

All of this - what you’re saying 💯💯true & brilliantly put. Key word . Predatory distribution & naive film makers looking at the ‘A’ group & being told lies by their peers. This is a great commentary. Keep it coming 💪🏼💪🏼🎥🎬🇮🇹

Thanks for making this video, I’m a filmmaker (producing) in LA and everyone knows this through trial and error, but huge amounts of money are wasted before the lesson is learned. There’s also tons of international filmmakers outside of US or UK, that trust these festivals simply because they’re held in big cities. All it took for me to do some research and check what movies, whether it’s shorts or features, won Sundance, SXSW, Tribeca, etc and find EPs, companies behind them. Everything is lobbied and vouched for, you CANNOT get in just from the general pool of submissions. This pool is how they earn money. Maybe selected, yes, but not win or being promoted. Which is fine. I don’t mind playing this game. Just wish more people knew about all those dodgy festivals!

This is so true, Dean. Thx for making this.

I started making documentaries and offering it to national TV. When they offer full sale I refuse. Might sound dumb but I would rather have the documentaries accessible to everyone than lock it with ancient TV channels. So I just post it on youtube and step by step build a name that might bring other financial opportunity like making ads, weddings, corporate videos etc. Still on my early stages but would rather lose money building something proud of on my small production company's youtube channel than get scammed or get my work canned inside those channels and no one watch them.

Yo!!! This was a great video! Man super helpful. Really appreciate you taking the time and energy to drop this knowledge! Much respect.

Thank you so much for this video. Been through this only once and was a nightmare. Hopefully going to go back at it

Beautifully put!

I'm just about to make my first feauture film, and i'm so grateful with u for this video, Dean! Hugs from Mexico City.

A bunch of reasons you mentioned why I don't believe in film festivals. While fests do work as film gets recognised, but then it's difficult to crack the festival on the first place. I'm not sure about other countries but I've seen Indian festivals recognising films of known filmmakers and actors instead of going through the efforts of those aspiring. Sad reality but here we are just loving to tell a story.

Just randomly came across your video. This is great info and I’ve shared it with a bunch of people. Great video and I’ll be hanging a round to watch some more of your content. - RADAR

Very cool. Im grateful to you for highlighting this aspect of the industry. Thank you. 👍

Thank you very much for such an important and helpful video. I've watch hundreds of KZfaq videos regarding filmmaking hardware, software and business. You're the only person talking in details about this problem. You also provides your solutions too. They do help to some extent.

The movie equivalent of vanity presses.

This is my biggest concern. I'm about to start writing what I hope to be my first official feature film and personally I think the story is great. But it doesnt matter how great a film is if no one watches it. I want to know my investment will be worth it. Also, I want to get paid. For me that is success. Not laurels or awards. Getting paid for it and having a career. I see so many of my friends get into Festivals and win awards for their shorts. Then they make more films and the same thing happens. Everybody congratulates them but nothing else happens. I dont want that. I want to work. Make back the money Ive invested and more.

This was great. Thank you for validating what I've been feeling.

I had no idea you had to *pay* so much to get your movies shown and hardly receive compensation at all! Not to mention film festivals have a bit of a snobby reputation... :/ Was happy to see Joel Haver mentioned! He alluded to the film festival machine in his video "You're already a filmmaker!" - that vid really helped me understand how more accessible film-making and distribution can be super beneficial for the artist and the audience.

Thank you, I really liked this clip and your way of doing it

Great video and I am a wedding videographer definitely in the B category but hearing the details about making a movie at that B level is completely overwhelming, though I understand the passion behind it all. Thanks for the perspective and wisdom behind helping those B level filmmakers be successful!

I will assume that I am not the only art-house film lover who was clueless about the “puppy mill”. Thank you for exposing ALL of the exploitation. Knowing this, I will seek out and support more small indie filmmakers on KZfaq and Vimeo. (*note: Love me some Vimeo ❤) Also, I love that you shared helpful alternative solutions for filmmakers.

Thank you! I have a finished doc and haven’t released because of the complexities you described. I appreciate you honestly sharing your experience.

Nailed it! Great points and advice.

Thanks so much. This was very helpful & encouraging 👏

I feel like a lot of them are fake businesses and scam, thank you for posting this video

This is such a wonderfully honest and insightful video about the levels of bureaucracy encountered along the journey of an independent filmmaker. Definitely agree that the models for filmmaking and distribution are changing but no one is quite sure how to navigate it all yet. I'm sure those middle men are counting on the status quo remaining the same since they have built entire companies and businesses that stand on the shoulders of independent creators. Sadly, they exist across all creative industries in some form. If filmmakers can find a way to bypass the middle men and the gatekeepers, I say go for it. Let's build something new in that B category. It's a work in progress, of course, but the internet and technology have re-empowered the independent creator in ways that would make the artists of the past green with envy. Anyway, really appreciated the video and you sharing your experiences. I have liked and subscribed. And I will check out your movies too! 🙏

What a sobering and informative video. I'm about to go through this, and the thought of figuring out how to do a feature release the way it used to be makes zero sense. I Think the ideas of doing to yourself and connecting to your audience directly may be the way to go. .. hopefully I can report back sometime that it yield results. Guess we'll find out. Again many thanks

Great video brother. Thank you for the tips.

Oh boy. Wait until you find out that this 50$ scheme plagues all arts. Painting contests are such profitable scams. Most recent one I've seen was in the music industry. They were asking 75$ for the chance to win a recording. They basically made more for just the application than if they rented out the studio for 2h

I never knew about this for filmmakers. I feel bad for them, hope it goes well in your future endeavors.

Thanks for sharing this brother, i really appreciate it! Subscribed

Bravo ! Well said ! ❤ Looking for more solutions in promotion and marketing.

Cheers, mate. It's a great confirmation of all aspects of being self-employed.

The title was throwing me off, but glad I clicked on the video. As a fellow filmmaker, who's gone through the distro process, I couldn't agree more.

A Major “Thank You!”

Incredible video with some great insights!

I went through the same experience and that's why I rather make films for youtube now

This is one of the smartest and most honest KZfaq videos I have seen in YEARS...and the main reason I have no desire to move from category C to B. 🤷‍♂

When I was in college here in portland everyone went on about the film scene and the festivals and the one time showings and the temporary rentals etc. You couldnt just go watch the movie, you couldnt buy a copy, and theyd parade awards they BOUGHT around. It destroyed the little industry that grew outta the early 2010's here, and all those scummy middle men took the movies and the money back to fucking california. Many were deleted, and the people who made em? Not allowed to show em. But I was the wrong one. I was humiliated and still am resented for me telling them wasting this money was a joke, that they'd ruin themselves doing this. Almost all of them never left portland, and most had to quit making movies. You pull a universal truck into town, and holy shit, you could scam everyone. Like me, outta job, thanks portlandi...... Thats all I can say.

Some indie distributors we contacted said they'd be happy to distribute our film but they wanted us to pay them $5K USD to $10K USD for doing so... what a scam... and I'm sure there are a few dozen indie filmmakers that actually pay them, giving them $200K+ salaries for basically scamming indie filmmakers. Meanwhile one of the largest indie distributors insisted on a 10 year minimum contract for our film, with no cash advance... it's been 3 years and we have no seen a cent in profit thanks to all their fees... it's so easy to get scammed in this game...

Killer insight! Thank you!

Thank you for this. I am an aspiring filmmaker and this really help put things in perspective. Thank you so much!

Thanks for your honesty bud, hadnt sent off my short to film festivals so I was feeling guilty. Maybe I should think of different distribution

This video is gold ! Thank you !

As far as the distributor issue, just negotiate a better contract. Putting your film on Vimeo instead of Amazon and the Streaming services is NOT the answer. Negotiate a contract that explicitly lists the marketing expenses that will come out of your residuals. If a distributor refuses to negotiate, use a different distributor. If your film is good enough, you'll be able to find one willing to negotiate. You can also put in contract terms to make sure you're given information on where your film was watched, since this is information the distributor will have access to. If you want to ALSO release on Vimeo or host private screenings, you can do that as well. No reason to choose just one.

Thank you! You saved me a lot of time and money!

4000 dollars in entry fee alone? im pretty sure you could have split that between like 4 influencers with followers of over 1mil each to promote your movie on their platform and get way more engagement

great video man! Looking forward to checking out your channel some more

Speaking of ripped off, I did a trailer demos some years ago, published on my youtube to see if I could find some investors or sponsors, nothing happened, but then I saw the SAME idea, even the same title on Netflix!, what can I do when that happens??

Thank you for sharing it and giving your honest opinion.

not surprised at all that the industry predation got worse when streamers like Netflix decided they were going to gatekeep in the most stupid way possible (requiring named and listed gear and distributors) especially considering how much garbage still makes its way on there. It's almost like many of these are designed to benefit their buddies & vested interests and lacks the most basic ways of distinguishing vetted material from polished waste

I've done exactly you said. My movie was sent to theaters in my home state. Film gone to film festivals and comicons. Online screening hasn't been done yet. I wouldn't mind showing this film since not available online

Likewise, the industry built up around exploiting aspiring screenwriters through contests with entry fees that provide nothing but the hope that you'll be one of the top half a dozen scripts that gets attention (even though that itself might lead nowhere.) It's basically a glorified lottery. Splash some cash to make a couple of people's dreams come true then you just gotta get enough coming in from entry fees to cover that and the rest is profit.

great video! thank you! I feel ya on all these issues.. and Joel Haver rocks! lol He got me to shoot my second feature “Cat Moon Motel” in 6hrs and wrap post production in 1week post it ! Was a super fun experience and then I shot and finished another 40min feature later that year! So.. can’t stress enough how people like you and Joel inspire filmmakers! Good luck out there 🖤