Thank goodness for apps, I have a lot more appreciation for them now

Awesome, glad to help :)

Honestly, I was pulling my hair out putting this video together

@@LetsPlayThru I bet, but you organized it very well!

Thanks so much, my pleasure

Glad it was helpful!

I like that format. My weekly games at my club here in the US use stableford as well.

Likewise! Failed it 3 times in college

You have to remember that a handicap is a representation of a players BEST scoring potential, not their average scoring potential. Hence why blow up holes are limited by the net double bogey rule. On a day where the golfer is playing at their best (i.e. playing to their handicap), they likely wouldnt have any big blow up holes, or at least not as many. Having said that, I don't particularly like the rule either. I keep an Excel file where I manually track my scores and handicap, and I choose not to "net double bogey" adjust my scores. In my case, my handicap is more a representation of my average scoring potential rather than a representation of my best scoring potential. My "real" handicap is probably lower than what I calculate, but I'm not a member of a club and don't have a true handicap.

It’s insane

Great question. In the GHIN app you can either enter a total score or enter hole-by-hole. It’s recommended you go hole-by-hole for exactly the reason you are asking. If you just enter a total then you’ll need to make those net double adjustments before you enter the total.

@@LetsPlayThru Oh wow. I have been doing it wrong. I have seen the hole by hole but have just never used it. I will start doing that from now on or doing the adjustment first. Thanks for the info. Very informative. I am pretty sure just about every golfer could use this info.

@@gripitripitchipit happy to help 😀

Thank you - likewise

What you’ll do in that case is simply hold your score until you play another 9 holes and you’ll add those two together.

@@LetsPlayThru Thanks for the response, but is that correct ? I know in the UK that you have to declare 9 holes prior to play, so I'd be surprised if that was how the official Score Differential is calculated. What if you never play the other 9 ? What if you play later in different conditions ? I just assumed there was a way to calculate for 9.

@@LetsPlayThru tks for your video great breakdown ,I mostly play 9/12 holes (lack of time)so, I don't agree on 9 hole add-ons to calculate hcap index...can be equated to Playing 18- the back nine is a different ball game especially as it gets warmer n you get tired!! They have to come out with a system for this...probably adjustment in pcc.. I can say from experience I have personally lost out on this..!

Oh yeah, that’s wild

Unfortunately can’t say this will be any easier. Don’t quote me on it, but it should use your 2020 scores.

@@LetsPlayThru I'll wait and see what they'll give on January 2021

@@thebackyardgolfer7010 if you already have a handicap it is automatically converted.

@@diogeneslantern18 I know, mine just converted for the worst.....

@@thebackyardgolfer7010 extra shots 😜🤙

Great idea, 🤣

Great point. It’s like a “chicken or the egg” thing. Hopefully someone smarter than me can chime in. I assume you’d just stick with double bogey max until you establish, but that’s just a guess.

@@LetsPlayThru I haven't found anything that specifically states what one's very first handicap is (for your first round ever) but since the maximum is 54 one would assume that it is the point of departure. Anyway, you will automatically get a handicap index after your first round is entered based on your differential for that round; then there is a tiered structure of progressively using more differentials (your best 2 in you first 6 rounds; then best 3 for 7 and upwards; up to the standard "best 8 of your last 20" rounds) to calculate your "true" handicap index once you've completed 20 rounds.

Sorry, as a correction - in South Africa we also use the USGA/World Handicap system, although I got a handicap index from my very first differential. I see that on the other hand the USGA requires 54 holes to be played.

@@diogeneslantern18 yes I think every country is a little different - and that seems weird since this whole system was supposed to standardize things.

You’re right John. Still need to record each shot on the card. Yes Carrollwood is private.

Haha, my pleasure 😇

That sounds like a bit of a mess indeed. When you play from tees further back you will likely get more strokes. If the slope and course rating is harder, it adjusts accordingly.

Yes spot on, but make sure it’s not just your index, but what your course handicap is.

🤣🤣🤣

If both golfers are keeping legitimate handicap indexes then a high handicap golfer has the same chance to beat the low handicap golfer as the other way around. That's exactly what handicaps do. If you are not seeing this, maybe people are not keeping legitimate handicap indexes. I'll often play in outings where not everyone in the field has an official (GHIN in the US) handicap index. And when you ask a person who does not have one what he estimates his handicap index to be, most want to inflate that number as the tendency is to do a mental averaging of recent rounds. Of course, that is not how a real handicap index is calculated. So you might get someone who says he has a 10 handicap index because he's recently shot 78, 82, 86, 80, 84, etc., when his real handicap index might be a 6 when calculated correctly using the 8 best scores of the last 20 rounds. And if there is money on the line, he'll tell you he's a 12. In our bar league at the local muni, we mandate doing hole-by-hole score entry for all rounds in the GHIN app and penalize people who do not - those who do get a 100% playing handicap; those who do not only get an 80% playing handicap. With this method, we regularly get between 80-90% of the field coming in at par +/- 3 for nine holes. But sure there will always be variance on any given round. We've had a golfer with a course handicap of 3 shoot a gross 2-under-par one week and the same golfer shoot an 8-over-par another week.

Probably one of your older scores dropped off

@@LetsPlayThru nope, still have the same 8 cards as before.

Did some digging and in addition to the 8 card rule, your local handicap committee can also amend your handicap “if they believe it is wrong”. This seems strange to me, 8 out of 20 seems perfectly fine to me.

This is the USGA GHIN app. It didn’t use to, but it does now.

I REALLY wish there was. If you find it, lmk

Ha, don't blame you!

The changes in rating/slope from tee box to tee box varies from course to course. That said, most courses I've played have INCREASING rating/slope as you move from the up tees to the back tees. In general, a scratch golfer (or any golfer) should play better from the white tees than the blue tees. (Additionally, there might be an argument as to whether a scratch golfer *should* play from the white tees.) To oversimplify a bit: the closer you are to the pin, the easier the shot, generally. For example, take a hole plays 380 from the white tees and 405 from the blue tees. Say a scratch golfer hits a 270 yards drive. The second shot from the white tees would be 110 yards and the second shot from the blue tees would be 135 yards. If that same golfer takes direct aim at the pin with his second shot but leaves the clubface open only 2.5 degrees, he will end up 14.4 feet left/right of the hole from 110 yards, but 17.7 feet left/right of the hole from 135 with the same shot. So the longer a ball travels on a wayward trajectory, the farther from the target it will end up. All other things being equal, the PGA leader to one-putt from the 10 to 15 foot range is about 44%; whereas the PGA leader to one-putt from the 15 to 20 foot range drops off to 30%. So the shot coming in from 110 will result in a birdie just under half of the time; whereas the shot coming in from 135 will result in a birdie just under a third of the time. And that is just the trigonometry of the shot. Add to that shorter clubs are generally easier to hit for most people and a gap wedge from 110 yards will likely end up better than a pitching wedge from 135 yards.

Haha, it's anything but obvious to many it seems. I've been in more than one competition (e.g., medal play for money, albeit handicapped) where a player has picked up his ball before holing out and said, "Put me down for [net double bogey]." You would not believe the amount of blowback I got when I said, "No. You have to finish out the hole." If you shoot a 13 on a hole, you put a 13 on your scorecard. And like you said, you only do a net double bogey calculation when entering your score for handicap purposes.

You could, or better yet, there are many apps that will track it. Just wanted to show how complicated the system is. 😃

If you are talking about using it to create a handicap index, it would be more work than using GHIN. Plus you would have to trust the person did the calculations correctly. Having a handicap index in GHIN makes everything more official and transparent. If you are talking about calculating a course/playing handicap based off an established handicap index, I do prefer to use an Excel formula when organizing events where players can choose their tees. For example, if someone has a 14.9 handicap index, he might get a course handicap of 16 from the white tees. If that same 14.9 golfer chooses to play from the tips, he might get a course handicap of 20. Likewise, if that 14.9 golfer wants to play from the up tees, he might only get a course handicap of 11. In the Excel sheet, you can just abbreviate the tee colors with "T" (tips/black), "B" (blue), "W" (white), "G" (gold), etc. Then do an INDEX/MATCH to plug in the rating/slope/par from that set of tees and calculate the course handicap from whichever tees the player chooses. The GHIN app can also do this, but I find it a little clunky to change tees when dealing with a larger playing field. In case anyone is wondering, letting players pick their preferred tees can be very fun as it lets the players choose to play from the back tees (and more strokes) and still hit bombs, or choose to play from the up tees (and fewer strokes) and focus on making scoring shots. I've found that even within a range of handicap indexes, say 12 to 18, you can have players of widely varying skills. You might have golfer A with a 14.9 handicap index who can hit monsters off the tee but has no short game and you might have golfer B with a 14.9 handicap index who can only carry 200 yards off the tee but is an ace around the green.

Thanks for the input. As you know, the calculation for course handicap is derived from the slope and rating. But what goes into rating a course is a calculation only the USGA, R&A and other governing bodies can decide. I figured that was beyond the scope of what goes into calculating a handicap.

@@LetsPlayThru I agree on disregarding the determination of course and slope rating for the purposes of this video. However, players should know that they play a round with their Course Handicap (and not HI), and they should be taught how to calculate it before a round. Honestly I think the formula should be printed on every scorecard.

@@diogeneslantern18 agreed, maybe a good topic for another video

Totally agree. In fairness I rely on an app to calculate it, but figured it’s worth dissecting what goes into that calculation. Truly bizarre!

That's the artist in me I guess. I never liked coloring inside the lines :)

Totally agree!

Taking more variables into account can make the handicap more equitable. This isn’t something you need to calculate manually, you just record your scores and it updates.

I hope you do not regularly play better golfers for money then. Handicaps reduce the gap between players of different skill. If you (and the person you are playing) keep accurate handicaps then you are not getting any advantage by having a higher handicap.

Can’t say I blame you. I almost gave up making it.

@@LetsPlayThru Love what you guys do on your channel though. Keep it up!

Thanks much appreciated

Well, you know....

Well Nicklaus is a 3.6HI so who do you trust?

Well I’m sure he just claims he’s scratch, but never actually provides his scores to the USGA. 😂

Read the book Commander In Cheat by former Sports Illustrated Rick Reilly. The truth about Trump golfing handicap. His nickname at one of his clubs is Pele cuz he uses his footwedge frequently.

The simple answer is, it was inaccurate. The reason is that it did not account for mathematical variance. The bigger the sampling size the lower the variance. That's why they don't just poll five people on the street for presidential election polls. Further, I'd argue that it's more simple now: instead of writing your score on the scorecard after each hole, enter it into a handicap app. No maths required.